Virginia Tech. Massacre

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A very good friend's daughter is a student there. (She's a senior.) The good news is that she was home for the weekend. She answered the phone on the first ring when I called to find out if she was o.k. She sounded hysterical. The bad news is that her boyfriend was shot. He's in the hospital and they have no idea as to the extent of his injuries.

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and friends.
 
Heard this at work today, how very sad, and frightening. Don't know about the rest of you,but so far the new millenium has not been wonderful for so many. The victims families are in my thoughts and prayers tonight. This is awful.
 
terrible news

All the more reason for stricter gun control laws in this country. Lets keep the people affected by this tragedy in our thoughts and prayers.
 
I saw the breaking news that 3 Virginia Tech students were killed in a shooting yesterday morning around 9:00 and it was a complete shock when we turned on the news in shop class that afternoon. I feel for the students and families of those whose lives were taken. I'm still wondering what the motive for the killer was, or if he simply "snapped".

That said, I have to disagree with what some of you said about stricter gun control. It's NOT the weapon, it's whose hands it is in, and either way (regardless of laws), weapons somehow end up in the wrong hands. Gun control will not solve these problems...just look at the gun-related crime rate in Washington DC for example. In Arizona, concealed handguns are not allowed, instead they have to be exposed on a belt holster. The crime rate is astonishingly low. To any person advocating gun control, I highly recommend you watch the documentary "Michael & Me" by Larry Elder. It will open a lot of eyes.

I'm off my soapbox now.

Austin
 
I am still in shock. I am lying home in bed with a lupus flare up, and have watched this quite alot. Has any one seen the freshman that was interviewd named Zach Stutts??? He's a good friend of mines nephew. I was glad to see he was ok. I do have a BB gun in my car, but thats a small thing that won't d much except scare some one. I will never own a real gun or shoot it.. I agree with austin, its whose hands the wepon is in
 


Hey Austin..

Much is made of the fact that Washington D.C. bans handguns and still has a very high homicide rate. The fact that Washington DC has a high crime rate does not disprove the merits of gun control. It is obvious that the guns are legally bought in other parts of the country where there is little or no gun control laws and illegally resold in DC. But, in other countries where there are gun control laws, they do not have this problem. Granted, I may be a bit biased about the subject of Gun control due to the fact my brother lost his life 15 yrs ago from an assailant who bought a gun at a garage sale. Yes, a garage sale! Here in Florida for example, you only need a permit to carry a gun. Nothing else!!If there was a permit to purchase law,perhaps my brother would still be alive today.Why not include a mandatory psychological exam to show a person is fit to carry a firearm? While I respect your opinion Austin, something needs to be done in this country about the easy access one has to guns without trampling on the rights of Gun owners and hunters.

Just my 2 cents as well...=)
 
To buy a new gun, you must fill out federal paperwork. Used gun sales are not federally regulated as of yet, although many local jurisdictions do so.

In Texas, you can apply for a concealed handgun permit. You have to submit finger prints and a background check is run on you for criminal or psychological issues. This law came about directly because of the Killeen, TX Luby's massacre in 1991 (23 died - worst shooting in U.S. history until now). A woman eating inside watched her parents die. She had a gun in her purse that she had left in the car because it was illegal to carry into the restaurant. She could have stopped the carnage if she had her gun with her. She lobbied for the concealed handgun law and finally it was passed. I was in college at the time of this shooting and a guy in my dorm lost his mother in that Luby's shooting. The crime rate in Texas, like Florida, dropped after this law was passed - all of the gun control advocates predicted we would become like the wild west and have shoot outs in the streets, just like they said in Florida and Arizona when they passed their permit laws. The FBI annual crime statistics proved them wrong in every case - I did a research report on this in college. We lived near Killen and my dad would go there on business and eat at Luby's occasionally. You better bet I was scared when the shooting hit the news, I called my dad and he was OK. I applied for and received a concealed handgun permit when the law passed.

There are many areas in the U.S. with strict gun control laws, but as long as criminals can get guns, the laws do no good - just like drug laws (boy those sure work, don't they?). It is estimated that there are around 20,000 local, county, state, and federal gun laws in America - these existing laws need to be enforced, more do not need to be legislated. Other countries do in fact have issues: A gunman in Australia killed about 5 people a few years ago - I'm not 100% sure, but I've been told that they had pretty strict gun laws there at the time. You can find incidents like this in any country, reguardless of laws, if you look hard enough. Communist Russia, with its oppressive laws and huge police/miltary presence within their country, had several spectacular crimes but the west never heard about them until after communism fell because the government controlled the press and kept them quiet.

Basically, someone who wants to kill will do so, reguardless of what weapon is available (remember the sword killer on the Staten Island Ferry?).
 
Canada has had fairly strict gun control laws for the last couple of decades even longer for handguns to the point that it is nearly impossible to own a handgun without rigorous checks etc. No one other than law enforcement and bank guards are allowed to carry a handgun in public ever. Long guns such as rifles and shotguns are aplenty though and it's even thought that there are more rifles per person in Canada than in the US. About 10 years ago the government brought in even stricter controls whereas before all you needed was an FAC (firearms acquisition certificate) to purchase (a police check) they instituted mandatory registering of all firearms and that turned into one of the governments biggest fiasco's of all time. Originally the pegged the cost at a couple of hundred thousand dollars to institute it, within a year it was in the millions and rife with errors etc. Although they did get many people registering their guns many didn't and haven't and won't. Our new government is basically trying to get rid of it as a waste of taxpayers money which hopefully they will do because it's a fact that the increasing gun crime in Canada isn't from joe averages old shotgun it's from illegally imported handguns mainly from the US and the criminals aren't going to register them so what's the point. Assault weapons are also banned in Canada on the premise that there is no good reason that anyone needs one to protect themselves or for hunting/recreation purposes. The other reason I don't agree with expanding control here is that gun crimes and murders while shocking and make the news are such as small percentage of all murders committed, most being knives or other methods.
 
Frist let me say that one is deeply saddend and troubled by this yet latest taking of young, innocent lives.

However, something about this does not seem right. Two or more hours elasped between the first shootings and the main rampage. According to VT officals they "thought" it was a domestic incident and that the first two victums were the only ones involved. Cannot understand given today's society and sadly what seems rash of school shootings that the campus was not at once put into lock down mode with classes suspended until the real police (not just campus security)and the FBI made the decision what was what.

L.
 
thats one thing i like about Texas. if someone is breaking into my residence, i can shoot to kill. to me, it just makes sense. you better think twice before you break into a house in Texas!

i prefer to not judge the assailant, since i really have no clue what brought him to this end. lifes challenges are just too much for some people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/us/17cnd-ROOMMATE.html
 
Gun control laws only keep guns out of the hands of law biding people,not the criminals. If somebody in that school had a gun they could have stopped that killer. Don
 
According to the news media, the gunman was a sad,lonely and depressed South Korean student who had a grudge against "rich kids". The student had recently been referred by his creative writing teacher to the college's head doctor for after submitting disturbing papers in a class project.

Now where have we heard this before? If one is sad, depressed, etc, and wishes to leave this world; they hey take yourself to the nearest field or deep body of water and have at it. But this sad trend of late that such people can get their hands on firearms and take masses of innocent people's lives before being killed/taking their own has to stop.

Normally am very much in favour of tighter gun control laws, but agress with the previous poster, if someone on campus had a weapon and knew how to use it, perhaps many lives could have been saved. All these sad thugs are pretty tough when they are the only ones armed, bet they'd get the shock of their soon to be ended life if someone actually started shooting back at them.

After the hurt and sadness has died down, VT has allot of explaining to do in their response to this matter, IMHO. If my child were going to college there would seriously have doubts about VTs response to any sort of crisis, and quite frankly not willing to trust them with my child's life.

L.
 
Overhere in the Netherlands we have very strict gun control laws, which actually means hardly anyone has a gun. We also have much lower crime rates as in the USA. I don't know if there is a direct relation between those two things. Perhaps it would have been more difficult for such a troubled mind to get to a weapon. Perhaps.. Everytime such a thing happens the discussion about gun laws come up again and frankly I don't think we will ever see the end of that discussion.

At this moment my strongest feelings are feelings of sympathy for all the people who have lost a family member or a friend with this horrible massacre. So many young promising lifes have been ended in such a sad way. I can only wish everyone involved all the strength in the world and more to bear the pain of this tragedy.

Louis
 
I agree with Laundress, the administration at Va. Tech has much to answer for.

Traditionally, even in states with liberal gun carry laws, guns are strictly forbidden on college campuses. With the amount of heavy binge drinking and partying at colleges, this is probably a good idea, but when something tragic like the Virginia Tech shootings occur, it makes me think twice about it. I suppose that we will have to have armed security stationed in every college and school building from now on, and install metal detectors (many high schools around here have them). I think that basic self defense should be taught in Jr. high and High school as part of the PE program - it might help people to react in an emergency and save their lives. Training can make a difference:

There was an incident at my college (Texas A&M) before I enrolled. The university police chief told us about it in orientation: A girl in the Corps of Cadets broke up with her boyfriend. He went off the deep end, dressed in camouflage, took an AR-15 (civilian M-16) and went to her dorm room at night to kill her. Her training in the Corps of Cadets kicked in and she was immediately able to disarm him and call the police.

This morning, my radio station reminded me of an incident at another college , a law school I think - can't remember the name, where a gunman entered and started shooting. One of the students ran outside to his car, got a gun and three other men, and they subdued the gunman.

In Killeen during the Luby's massacre, several people who were in the parking lot or escaped through a window tried to get guns from nearby local businesses to stop the shooter, but none of the local businesses had guns on their premises.

In the big bank robbery shootout in LA (eerily similar to the one in the movie "Heat"), the outgunned police actually went to nearby gun stores to get assault rifles to fight the bank robbers.

I firmly believe that citizens should have the right to own guns. The second ammendment refers to a 'militia' and many say that is the National Guard, not civilians. But the dictionary defininition, and the general definition during colonial and Revolutionary War times is: all able bodied male citizens between 18 and 45 who are not already members of the regular armed forces and who are declared by authority subject to call to military service. In colonial times, all local men (the Militia) in a city or county area would be called for defense in an emergency. They would provide their own weapon. When you read various published articles written by our founding fathers and printed before,during, and after the constitutional convention, you can see that their intentions were that all citizens should be allowed to own a gun, not just the military and police - their biggest fear was a totallitarian government, they just fought a war to be free of this.

~i prefer to not judge the assailant, since i really have no clue what brought him to this end. lifes challenges are just too much for some people.

I personnally will judge the gunman: there is nothing that warrants this type of action. Anyone who does something like this has a serious character flaw or mental illness.
 
It is never as simple as those who argue one side or the oth

Sure it takes a person to pull the trigger, but hand guns like a Glock are made for one purpose only: to shoot other people. The world is full of nuts and making murder enablers widely available to just about anyone (Virginia has among the laxest gun control laws in the nation), means that more nuts will have more guns. More nuts with more guns mean more Columbines, more Luby's, more 101 Californias, more Virginia Techs. That much you can count on.
 
amok

Well, maybe that many of you believe I'm mad as well or sick or rude or have no soul....maybe you are right..!?
I'm absolute not shocked nor am I upset about what has happened there. The only thing I can say, and I do not mean this exclusively for the States, as we had such a desaster in Germany twice as well: Societies get what they deserve!

What I want to say is just as simple as one plus one is two.

Just leaving all that emotional reactions away and have a look on what has taken place quite logically:
There was a person which was once born as an innocent baby (OK, one could argue that maybe the genes were a bit more sensible or a bit more aggressive to those of other people, but everybody has individual genes - there's nobody twice on this world up to date - and under normal conditions this person would probably have been, say, a good football-player or a good workers council) but than SOMETHING went wrong during his life-way.... and that is something that is brought to an individuum by the surrounding environment, the society in which the person is situated. Modern mad societies just produce these kind of monsters themselves! I don't want to put the finger on all those aspects which are constantly going wrong in our modern societies - all of you can numerate hundreds, I'm sure.
If you look back in history you'll find cases the same like this one, but in the old days no-one was there to stop those poeple as they mostly sat in positions of the rulers. Think of Vlad Tepec in Romania, Nero in Rome, or Hitler in Germany, Stalin in Russia... The row could be nearly endlessly adjusted, couldn't it?
So, I stopped once mourning and said to myself: that's what we get for what we've provoked! Shame on us!

And the reason is quite simple: stress - nothing more and nothing less! Eu-stress and dis-stress - both are equally bad in overdoses as nowadays.
The amount of stress in societies what we call "modern" (what is modern?) is too much for beings like the human - we are not made for that! Fexibility - a good thing actually - but over-flexibility as today's daily business hasn't anything to do with being flexible any more, it is pure deracination! We want the quadrature of the circle: a social human being that is totally flexible; like a green chair that is coloured red! Social behaviour is tremendously important for societies as it is the basement of interacting between the individuals. This behaviour is fixed to special regulations, called rules, which allow each individual to act without leaving the whole context of the group/race. Total flexibility means all but social behaviour - it is made for solitaires! The human race is an animal or species that developped as a gregarius animal not as lone fighter - everything that distinguishes us from the other animals we reached only because we are the most social animal on this planet. There would be no society and no technical development of the human society left if we were solitaire animals like snakes, slugs, or flies!

Think of it!!

Ralf
 
I don't mind if people have guns, but I don't think they are as effective as people say. In a crisis like that, or the Libby Shooting or Columbine, etc, most people will freeze up or freak out - thus adding to the carnage and confusion if, for instance, they start firing indiscriminately. It's one thing to boast, it's quite another thing to act appropriately in a situation like that.

What I wish we had in this country was a healthier attitude towards mental health issues. This guy was nuts. His professors and fellow students knew it. Granted, he was a "loner", but if someone could have refered him to a doctor for some help, or if that help were readily available, he might have been able to control his urges. But we - as a society - have a stigma against seeking out that kind of help. Many insurance plans won't even cover it, and that means we have a lot of untreated people out there. Granted, they're not all killers, but they don't make life any better for anyone, including themselves.
 
dalangdon, I agree this was definitely a mental health issue. This was a very troubled person.

I do not see how more gun control laws would've helped in this situation. He was bent on doing evil. The gun is what he chose as his method, but if he didn't have that, I feel he would've used a knife, bat, or some other weapon. This guy was going to kill people regardless of his weapon of choice.

I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Do I carry? Not usually. Really the only time I'm packing is when I'm heading out into the deep woods. I also like to take the revolver along when I go to the remote camp I belong to. I'm out in the boonies with no other cabin close, so I like to have some protection there.

This is not the time to begin a rational debate. Emotions are high Families & friends need to mourn & greive their loved ones. I feel for those folks.
 
just my 2 cents

The whole thing is a head scratcher for me, as here we have a young man who was obviously disturbed, and now floods of people coming forward about his "troubled loner" personality.
Nobody thought of reaching out to him?
I feel sorry for everyone affected by this tragedy. I really do. But all the finger pointing and airing of this kid's troubles is NOT going to help anyone make sense of WHY this happened.
Stricter gun control laws would not have prevented it. The kid chose his path, and was going to do his damage, one way or another.
When I was 19 years old I was robbed at gunpoint in an elevator by two 16 year old kids. I know what it feels like to have a loaded gun pointed at your face.
I am all for very strict gun control.
I also can't fault the University for not going into lockdown mode after the first shooting. The powers that be did what they thought best, and given the number of students/faculty/staff shutting down would have been a huge if not impossible task, not to mention the potential panic and hysteria this could have caused. They did what they thought best.
What makes me saddest of all is how events like this change our world and us as people. Pretty soon there will be no place left where we can feel safe.
We'll always be looking over our shoulders waiting for something bad to happen
 
I live less than 2 hours away from VT, and I happen to work for a huge college in my town (James Madison University). You can't even imagine the uproar it caused at work on Monday and Tuesday. Students were still freaked out, knowing it could have just as easily been our campus. We never, ever have drills, etc for anything to prepare students for this type of thing. We do have a lot of foreign students as well, ones who arent even citizens. I guess you cant ever know, yet you cant judge certain students by one bad example. Try to tell that to 18-20 year old students. I work in a building where the walls are made of huge panes of glass. There is no protection, the doors are open to the building from 6am until 11 or 12 at night. There are times when I am the only one in the building (I am catering manager, so my hours suck). In all reality, with all that glass, there is no way to hide quickly or be protected from much of anything. Lockdown in my building would be horrible, considering there are more than 15 entrances, and each door must be locked individually. I know the entire campus took a moment of silence yesterday at 2pm. We all feel their loss. However, now its put Administration into action, and they want to prepare students and staff for these situations now. Too bad it takes a huge tragedy to wake up an entire campus. Hindsight is always 20/20, of course. I also happen to know that right now in VA, all colleges are open and touring potential students, in huge groups. I am sure enrollment is going to drop for VT now, as well. Its a shame that it took one sick individual to do so much damage. One of the victims lived less than 5 miles from me, although I didnt know them personally. According to what I have heard, the way that he killed his victims, was they way the Koreans used to do it during the war. I forget the term for it, but to put it briefly, it consisted of locking the building down yourself, killing all that you can, and then finishing yourself off. He was definitely one f****ed up individual.
 
better to just mourn first

I understand why this debate has kicked up once again, but, gosh, shouldn't we be putting our thoughts right now into the families and friends - and survivors - of this horror?
There will be time enough for us to carry on the never-ending discussion on guns.
Regardless of which side one is (and don't anybody think they know how I feel about it, you might be surprised), the time right now is better spent on grieving and helping.
In a week's time, I will add my own thoughts here. Until then, let us hope there may be no further deaths.
 
buying guns

I don t know how it is other places but her at the mexican flea markets guns of any type can be purchased , all you need is cash.. Hand guns , Shotguns you name it its there... I have seen the police there a number of times and they walk by and look and do nothing... This is the kind of thing that should be stopped...
 
Ok, Now I Am Getting Really Mad

It appears this nut was out mailing a package to NBC news, which arrived earlier today, during the time between the two shootings. If this is true the second slaughter may have been prevented, should LE shut down the campus and looked for this varmit.

L.
 
Now I'm really mad ...

This latest news about the package that was mailed to NBC shows that much of this tragedy could have been prevented.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread:

"A very good friend's daughter is a student there. (She's a senior.) The good news is that she was home for the weekend. She answered the phone on the first ring when I called to find out if she was o.k. She sounded hysterical. The bad news is that her boyfriend was shot. He's in the hospital and they have no idea as to the extent of his injuries."

Sadly, it turns out that he was one of the people who were killed. His death and the deaths and injuries at the site of the second shooting could have been prevented!

I haven't spoken to my friend since before Jeremy's death was confirmed. Their cell phone voice mail boxes are full and their landline is either busy (they have call waiting!) or rings incessantly. There really are no words. I still haven't been able to find a suitable sympathy card. (Sigh)

The link will take you to Jeremy's memorial tribute. I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I've watched Alexis grow up into a beautiful young lady. My heart goes out to her and to everyone else who was affected by this tragedy.

Mike



http://www.roanoke.com/vtvictims/wb/113504
 
Mike(JerseyMike)

You and your friends daughter Alexis, will most certainly be in my thoughts.There are really no words that will help ease the pain, but knowing there are others such as myself that grieve with you and your friends family will help somewhat. As a survivor of homicide,(My brother was murdered in 1992), I would encourage Alexis and those close to Jeremy to seek out a support group(When things calm down). It was extremely helpful to me and my family. People don't understand the grief,anger and sense of loss when a loved one is lost to homicide. People in these groups do and it gives you a safe,secure place to show your feelings with others who truly understand how you feel. The loss of Jeremy will always be there, but in time Alexis will heal. Please feel free if any of you need support or any help, to send me an email to me..Please let Alexis know that as well.

Many blessings your way
Shane
 

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