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I have always used a TL'er. Last August I bought a SQ AWN432 used it for roughly9 months. Did I have clean clothes, you bet I did..but I worket at it. I shut the washer off midway thru the wash cycle for a soak as I felt this was more gentle than turning the dial back around for another 15/18 minutes of agitation. I also used more products, detergents, boosters, phosphates..than there's the water temp...my water heater is set at 120 something (I have young grandkids) sooo I heated soup pots of water on the stove to help boost the temp, I'm old enough to know temperature does matter IMO....my TL automatics were never truely automatic. Two months ago I got my first FL a Whirlpool Duet WFW95HEDW0...I went out and bought a few boxes of powder detergent HE...I was most curious to wash a load of my vintage percale sheets (white) in HOT water so I proceded to wash a load at around 154F and a tiny at least compared to what I used to use detergent 2Tablespoons. ..cycle was just over 2 hours, that's fine with me...I had my doubts but once they came out of the machine they were brilliantly white and smelled so darn fresh and all I had to do was load the sheets and detergent and push a few buttons. Every load I've done so far, and with a family of 5 I do a lot...have been white, bright, stain free.. I used to read here and other places about how well FL'ers cleaned, frankly I couldn't understand how with so little water and detergent. I thought my white sheets could not possibly ever be whiter, they are. All this with very little energy on my part. I will never go back, I'm very hard to please when it comes to clean laundry, but this Duet has greatly pleased. me. I'm now a die hard FL fan LOL
 
I agree with you mamapinky, I have ALWAYS had top load washers until this last time over 2 years ago now. I bought an LG made Kenmore Elite washer & dryer that stack on top of each other since that saved a little space and makes it easier to pull stuff out of the dryer and hang it up. I picked out the set which had the largest capacity available at the time. I could not be anymore pleased with the results. Now I do admit, it takes much longer to wash and rinse a load of clothes because I use the longest cycle with the temp boost and 3 extra rinses. Everything comes out perfectly clean, lint free and has virtually NO wear and tear on my clothing from tumbling around. If you have multiple loads of clothes you have to do everyday, it might not be the kind of washer you need. But for me it works fine. It also cuts the drying time easily into at least half because it extracts so much water from the clothes. Reminds me of my old Rapidry 1000 Frigidaire I used to have, but none of the linting problems. I do think if one must have a top load machine that speed queen is the one to have, but they do seem to still have issues. Maybe your machine was an isolated incident, I don't know. But there have been many problems with them in the past. I personally like all the options I have with my machine, particularly that you can heat the water to temps that far surpass what your hot water tank can deliver by the time it gets to your machine. Speed Queen does not offer that option on either the top loader or the front loader. You take whatever temp the water is when it reaches the machine, which is too bad. I do think that part of the reason my front loader washes so well is because of the long washing time. How can something not get clean if it tumbles in soapy water for at least an hour? So I am sold on front load machines. Especially after seeing how some of the new top loaders work. They seem to twist and pull and use a great deal of friction and rubbing on the clothes when "washing" them. It would have to create a lot of linting too. I can only observe what I see in youtube videos though, since I have never had one or care to have one. I know that my old jet action Frigidaire with the cone agitator really did have a linting problem. When I bought new towels I had to wash them in a big front loader to get rid of the new lint on them because the Frigidaire was incapable of doing it. Much as I have always loved top load washers, I would never buy one again.
 
It will surprise absolutely no one that I've been carrying the banner for front-loaders since purchasing a Frigidaire in 1987. In a nod toward HE things to come, I realized very quickly that lowering the water level actually improved washing and rinsing action.  I used the lowest water level setting at first, but eventually popped the top and adjusted the thingy.  

 

Looking ahead a few years, I will probably sell the house and move into an apartment.  Have already picked the place.  There's a garage for each tenant and laundry hook-ups rather than a communal coin-op laundry room.  Here's the cool part: Each tenant's laundry is actually in the hallway right next to their front door.  These little alcoves look like a double closet with no doors on it.  Why the 8-plex is arranged this way, I have no idea.  Looks like the place was built in the mid-1960s.  At any rate, you can see what kind of washer/dryer everyone has.  No bothersome/embarrassing/illegal snooping around in their apartments, LOL.

 

Hi, Ben!

[this post was last edited: 8/11/2016-08:40]
 
my take...

Hola compadres.
I'm back from hiatus.
Figured I'd throw my few cents in the coin tray.

1. Reviewed.com is pretty awesome with their testing, except in areas where they are not. They are NOT technical people in any regard to machinery, except when it comes to running experiments. And when they do run experiments, I think they're good at execution, but they have very shallow knowledge of the "why and how" of the results. Therefore they just spew data to readers with little explanation.

2. The politics here are amusing. There's a deep thread of "don't tread on me or my water guzzling appliances." LOL. But what many forget, except for those esteemed members in our arid Southwest, is that water is a limited, shared resource. It even impacts us here in the Midwest with our vast Great Lakes. In a sense where other areas/states are always trying to get their grubby hands on our lake water! Because they've already squandered their wells and such.
On top of that, the more efficient appliances save myself and others a great deal of money.

3. However, some argue that the newer appliance do not last long anymore. And that's a valid complaint. The complaint that they use less water/energy, yet break down sooner and cannot be repaired, therefore wiping out their net savings, can be valid as well. But on a whole, I don' t think so. Not to mention, appliances are far far FAR cheaper today than they used to be 20-40 years ago. Yet the statistics I've seen say that they last just about as long as appliances of yesteryear. Averaging 7-10 years.
Now, individual experiences may laugh in the face of that data. But...on the whole, I've started to believe, from repairmen testimony, and my own visual observations, that these "old and bulletproof appliances just don't seem to be around that much anymore. Except for KitchenAid dishwashers. LOL.
THOSE legitimately just do not die.
And yes, my parents still have their 1982 LA511 Maytag washer, but it's on borrowed time. The dryer bit the dust YEARS ago to be replaced by a 2004 Neptune dryer that's still going strong (with its evil electronics and everything).
BUT, NOBODY else I know, from friends or family, have any appliances older than the mid 90s. They don't. They're gone. They all broke down, to be replaced by modern machines that are more efficient, and work very well and aging averagely as well; 7-10 or more years active. My Maytag Maxima set also cost me HALF the price as my parents paid for their Maytags back in the 80s, as a percentage of paychecks. And I expect to get 7-10 years out of them. Maybe with a repair or two, which I can do myself as an advantage. And if need be, I can buy another set.
To which my machines would be mostly recycled, melted down and used to make other machines.

4. With that said, I get the huge draw to Speed Queen in this community. They're very traditional. They're tough. They're US made. But with all that nostalgia comes the realities of yesteryear. Such as HUGE amounts of water use. Detergent use, clothing wear and tear, as well as lackluster washability.
I'm glad SQ still makes machines like these. But they're not for me. I think there's better machines out there for my needs. But that doesn't mean SQ is bad. Yet they by no means deserve the jingoistic pedestal they're put on by others either. IMO of course ;)

5. And finally the climate change debate, real quick, since office snack time is almost over.
What I LOVE about climate change is that the science behind it. Any science really, will be right, whether you believe it or not.
Those who fight, bully, deny and bark against the fact that the climate is changing at a more rapid rate, will eventually be surprised. Or their kids will be. It'll happen no matter what they say. And if I'm lucky, I'll get to see their coastal properties sink under water.
The Trumpster is already starting to build a sea wall around one of his Irish golf courses because over the decades, the water level keeps creeping upon the land. LOL! The Exxon CEO's mansion on the Outer Banks will be under water in 20 years, OR LESS! It does not matter what they say.
All of our flights will have more turbulence because of the ever increasing warmth of the planetary air. You can scream as much as you want how much it's a hoax, but the airlines will still log that ever-increasing level of turbulent flights. Your wells and lakes will continue to recede, starving your 30 gallon top loader from the water is so preys upon.

Cheers!
 
Climate change and science

Yes, real unbiased well understood science does not lie. But again, the scientific community can not agree as to whats behind climate change for a variety of reasons. Just Google the terms and you will find a plethora of contradicting reports, papers and data. I find it interesting how those preaching climate change as being man made support half the evidence while denying the other half as though it does not exist. Discarding information which is otherwise inconvenient. BTW, you want to know the biggest green house gas of all? Try water.

Its kind of like R-12 refrigerant. The government put the blame on HVAC techs and people using propellants when the US military emitted countless times more through aviation cleaners. At least in that case it was determined without contradiction CFCs were a danger to the atmosphere.

But when it comes to climate change the science is not only far more complex, but there are special interests at work too...
 
"Speed Queen's cult following can't justify its

Thanks for the heads up :)

http://laundry.reviewed.com/content...=usat&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=collab

To that I say Oh please. Until they can say exactly how they did those tests I ain't buying it. Again, the detergent in the softener does it for me. Americans have been using top load washers for 50 years with great results, yet all of a sudden it seems a tried technology can't do what it once did.
 
"and they're easy to fix if they do break"

Sorry for the triple post, I can not edit, but to that I call BS!!!!!!! Speed Queen may last a long time, but they are among the hardest washers to fix hands down ever created. A pump, timer and belt are easy; but try a transmission, tub seal, bearing, or anything else for that matter and its far easier (and cheaper) to junk the whole machine. You need special tools and knowledge which will deter DIYs while repair men will call out sick awaiting hours of labor. 20 years from now when these machines start to fail every last one of them will end up in a land fill.

Once again we have an article (propaganda) taken to heart by many which can not keep its facts straight.
 
Climate change

Ok, first I have to state that I am convinced man made climate change does exist.

But even if it's not man made, it sure is there. I mean, it was 5C this morning here in the middle of Germany. In August. I mean - that is the hottest month in the year for the most part.

And even if i is not entirely man made, why can't we do something about it? If your dog chews on your carpets, you don't cause it, but it affects you, and as you can do something about it, you do something about it.
 
chetlaham-- reviewed.com explained the 'detergent in the softener dispenser' controversy in a reply to someone's comment. The (undoubtedly non-washerhead) video team, not the testers, decided they needed to do that shot to add some color to the edit. I'm sure they thought "who the hell will notice?" We at AW caught it immediately, of course. 

 

I follow the tests done by Consumer Reports.  While they've nearly eliminated the in-depth play-by-play surrounding tests (and a big thumbs-down for that), their testing protocol is actually better than it used to be.

 

reviewed.com is interesting to read, but I don't take their tests as seriously as I do CR's. CR is even more methodical and they don't accept advertising or corporate money. They buy units off the shelf just like we do and then test them.

 

Having said that, I'll read what little they still put in their articles and occasionally go "oh, really?" at a comment like "...tangling that's caused by high spin speeds".  No, the tangling occurs during the 45-minute wash portion of the cycle, not during the spin.  Despite gaffs like that, I rely on what they say when making a new purchase--along with some user reviews and the input of AW members.  Haven't been let down.  Others will argue differently, but that's been my experience with CR.
 
FWIW

At the end of the day the SQ does what I need it to do which is clean my laundry.

Bonuses are: Easy to use, easy to maintain, fast, and bottom line, cleans my clothes without drama.

That is all I need and all I want.
 
@washman

What you see as a defect of science, saying one thing, then saying another. I see as a feature.
It is ever changing as better experiments are done and more data is collected.

You see, science (though now sadly, a pejorative word) is merely a process of collecting data.
Obviously the data in the 70s was new, green, incomplete, wrong, maybe had its scale tipped.
But it's gotten much better over the decades.
And even then, the esoteric numbers aren't even needed for the proof.
You have stark, often scary, visual proof now of changing climates in areas where real harm is being done.
Not everywhere yet, but it's starting.
 
"Climate change

Ok, first I have to state that I am convinced man made climate change does exist."

Only be ignoring half the data...

"But even if it's not man made, it sure is there. I mean, it was 5C this morning here in the middle of Germany. In August. I mean - that is the hottest month in the year for the most part.

And even if i is not entirely man made, why can't we do something about it? If your dog chews on your carpets, you don't cause it, but it affects you, and as you can do something about it, you do something about it."

Ok, its real. I believe it is as data from the past tells us. The world was 10*F hotter when dinosaurs walked the earth. But if its not man made why should we make changes as though man is responsible? Id rather we put our effort on hardening infrastructure.
 
Reply #100:  Then you're using the right machine for you, Ben. 😊

 

Honestly, when it comes time to sell the house, the final appliance purchase I make will probably be a front-loading SQ set.  Once I'm retired and on a fixed income there will be money for repairs, but probably not for a spendy new washer and dryer. I'll learn to live without the internal water heater.  And the steam.  And the capacity.  And my beloved tub light. 😢

 

Science: The beauty of science is that there are continual improvements and refinements as technology evolves.  I also remember the "Ice Age" educational films of the late 1960s-early 1970s.  Saw at least one when I was in 6th grade.  

 

I also remember the "margarine is better for you than butter" articles and advertisements back then.  Now we know that the trans fats that were in margarines until recently were actually worse. 

 

Can you imagine being one of the scientists trying to convince the the rest of medicine, politics, and society that germs/bacteria caused illness?  Talk about a tough sell, LOL!  "So, you're telling me that germs cause illness---but we can't see them. And there are thousands of different kinds.  Riiiiiight."

 

Science does the best work it can with the tools it has at any given time. Think of how much technology and scientific knowledge have advanced since the 1970s.  That's why I choose to go with science.  Unlike, say, religion, which doubles down on the knowledge of 2,000-3,000 years ago, science can stay abreast of the latest advances and refine its results.

 

While the entire scientific community doesn't completely agree on climate change, an ever-increasing amount of data points to the fact that it is happening and that it's being accelerated by human behavior.

Even the ones who aren't convinced it's man-made concede that there is a 'point of no return'.  Once we cross that, there is no fixing it.  

 

Given that information, I'll go with the majority in this case.

 

And yes, pseudo-science is always pushed by political or corporate money.  See my smoking and seat belt analogies above.  Tobacco companies trotted out their handful of medical experts who said, "Well, I think the connection between smoking and heart/lung disease is debatable." 

 

My seat belt came in very handy, by the way, the night before last when we hit a deer turning from a gig.

(Note To Apple: No tow truck emoji?!) 
 
As far as consumer reports goes, you have to remember that they were the ones who made Norge washers so popular back in the 50's and they were nothing but problems for the owners and did not last long at all without many repairs. My parents found that out when they bought the 1957 set they had. They washed clothes well, but repairs were terrible.
 
Why don't we build better infrastructure

First of, my opinion doesn't even have to line up with any data. Opinions don't have to be fact based. That is basicly what most pro-HE people around this post try to point out.
That means as well though that your verry own opinion can be titled as factualy wrong.

For example: You're opinion might be that SQ TLs are the best cleaning washers out there. I value your opinion. It's just factualy plain wrong. We think that HE FLs are the way to go. Its our opinion, you should value it. It is however factualy true.
Same goes with everything else: Opinions can collide with data.

Now, if you want to build infrastructure to overcone mass floodings, heat waves, drinking water shortages and storms that might actualy blow your mind (sorry for that pun), I just want to point out that roads in Germany can be hell on earth to drive on. And that is without the things mentioned above.

Anyway, I'd like to hear which half of the science I am ignoring. Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere since the 1900s in conjunction with more extreme weather and overall rising average temperatures, mass extinction of animals... What again points out that is not connected to us?
 
"First of, my opinion doesn't even have to line up with any data. Opinions don't have to be fact based. That is basicly what most pro-HE people around this post try to point out.
That means as well though that your verry own opinion can be titled as factualy wrong."

Its not my opinion NYC was not hardened for Hurricane Sandy. That still would have happened even if the world went to 100% renewable energy a day earlier. Also, I said and it keeps being ignored: the experts can't agree on climate change.

"For example: You're opinion might be that SQ TLs are the best cleaning washers out there. I value your opinion. It's just factualy plain wrong. We think that HE FLs are the way to go. Its our opinion, you should value it. It is however factualy true.
Same goes with everything else: Opinions can collide with data."

In my case it is more of an opinion since clean is subjective and varies greatly on water, detergent, dirt, usage to name a few. However data backs up longevity for Speed Queen.

"Now, if you want to build infrastructure to overcone mass floodings, heat waves, drinking water shortages and storms that might actualy blow your mind (sorry for that pun), I just want to point out that roads in Germany can be hell on earth to drive on. And that is without the things mentioned above."

Which means we have a much greater problem at the heart of society than what type of washer people are using.

"Anyway, I'd like to hear which half of the science I am ignoring. Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere since the 1900s in conjunction with more extreme weather and overall rising average temperatures, mass extinction of animals... What again points out that is not connected to us?"

Just sift through Google and plenty of studies and sites say global warming is not man made, some saying its not even real. Yet you say it is.

But regardless, the earth has been far hotter and far colder over millions of years. Through ice core drilling science has shown us that CO2 varied and cycles through out history. Even if humans were 100% sustainable, chances are the climate would be changing anyways.
 
Indeed 100% of scientists don't agree on climate change... But at what point is the evidence considered good enough to consider action? And note the dates on the surveys cited in that graph, that was years ago! I bet they agreement today is even higher percentages.

I was raised in a family that recycled in the 70's. The idea is that all of us are but one person that lives on this big rock, and that we should all use only what we need. I just don't get why people resist the idea of doing things in an environmental or efficient (dare I say green) manner.

To a degree I think it was typified by Reagan when he took over from Jimmy Carter. Carter had environmental views and he added solar panels to the White House and did his television appearances wearing a sweater after he turned down the thermostat. Reagan came in and scrapped that and ripped down the solar panels. Apparently it is just un-American to not just use everything we wish consequences be damned.

There are thousands of words written about FL vs TL machines, but really in the end we should be doing everything we can to just do the most with the least. Seeing as all of us only have a brief spin on this planet, the responsible thing is to consider those that will come after us. Not a single one of our resources is limitless...

To anyone that denies global climate change, I can say this is one time when I dearly wish you are right and I am wrong. Pity that science proves this isn't the case.

kb0nes-2016081116193806717_1.png
 
 
All I can say about warming is that my car registered 104°F briefly on the 2-mi route from WM to home @ 2:30 this afternoon, heat index was 109°F, and ERCOT registered new record consumption highs Mon, Wed, and today.
 
And who will take over for Algore in the 21st century ?

Probably the census takers because their jobs will be threatened if the scientific naysayers were to have any influence.
 

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