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chetlaham-- reviewed.com explained the 'detergent in the softener dispenser' controversy in a reply to someone's comment. The (undoubtedly non-washerhead) video team, not the testers, decided they needed to do that shot to add some color to the edit. I'm sure they thought "who the hell will notice?" We at AW caught it immediately, of course. 

 

I follow the tests done by Consumer Reports.  While they've nearly eliminated the in-depth play-by-play surrounding tests (and a big thumbs-down for that), their testing protocol is actually better than it used to be.

 

reviewed.com is interesting to read, but I don't take their tests as seriously as I do CR's. CR is even more methodical and they don't accept advertising or corporate money. They buy units off the shelf just like we do and then test them.

 

Having said that, I'll read what little they still put in their articles and occasionally go "oh, really?" at a comment like "...tangling that's caused by high spin speeds".  No, the tangling occurs during the 45-minute wash portion of the cycle, not during the spin.  Despite gaffs like that, I rely on what they say when making a new purchase--along with some user reviews and the input of AW members.  Haven't been let down.  Others will argue differently, but that's been my experience with CR.
 
FWIW

At the end of the day the SQ does what I need it to do which is clean my laundry.

Bonuses are: Easy to use, easy to maintain, fast, and bottom line, cleans my clothes without drama.

That is all I need and all I want.
 
@washman

What you see as a defect of science, saying one thing, then saying another. I see as a feature.
It is ever changing as better experiments are done and more data is collected.

You see, science (though now sadly, a pejorative word) is merely a process of collecting data.
Obviously the data in the 70s was new, green, incomplete, wrong, maybe had its scale tipped.
But it's gotten much better over the decades.
And even then, the esoteric numbers aren't even needed for the proof.
You have stark, often scary, visual proof now of changing climates in areas where real harm is being done.
Not everywhere yet, but it's starting.
 
"Climate change

Ok, first I have to state that I am convinced man made climate change does exist."

Only be ignoring half the data...

"But even if it's not man made, it sure is there. I mean, it was 5C this morning here in the middle of Germany. In August. I mean - that is the hottest month in the year for the most part.

And even if i is not entirely man made, why can't we do something about it? If your dog chews on your carpets, you don't cause it, but it affects you, and as you can do something about it, you do something about it."

Ok, its real. I believe it is as data from the past tells us. The world was 10*F hotter when dinosaurs walked the earth. But if its not man made why should we make changes as though man is responsible? Id rather we put our effort on hardening infrastructure.
 
Reply #100:  Then you're using the right machine for you, Ben. 😊

 

Honestly, when it comes time to sell the house, the final appliance purchase I make will probably be a front-loading SQ set.  Once I'm retired and on a fixed income there will be money for repairs, but probably not for a spendy new washer and dryer. I'll learn to live without the internal water heater.  And the steam.  And the capacity.  And my beloved tub light. 😢

 

Science: The beauty of science is that there are continual improvements and refinements as technology evolves.  I also remember the "Ice Age" educational films of the late 1960s-early 1970s.  Saw at least one when I was in 6th grade.  

 

I also remember the "margarine is better for you than butter" articles and advertisements back then.  Now we know that the trans fats that were in margarines until recently were actually worse. 

 

Can you imagine being one of the scientists trying to convince the the rest of medicine, politics, and society that germs/bacteria caused illness?  Talk about a tough sell, LOL!  "So, you're telling me that germs cause illness---but we can't see them. And there are thousands of different kinds.  Riiiiiight."

 

Science does the best work it can with the tools it has at any given time. Think of how much technology and scientific knowledge have advanced since the 1970s.  That's why I choose to go with science.  Unlike, say, religion, which doubles down on the knowledge of 2,000-3,000 years ago, science can stay abreast of the latest advances and refine its results.

 

While the entire scientific community doesn't completely agree on climate change, an ever-increasing amount of data points to the fact that it is happening and that it's being accelerated by human behavior.

Even the ones who aren't convinced it's man-made concede that there is a 'point of no return'.  Once we cross that, there is no fixing it.  

 

Given that information, I'll go with the majority in this case.

 

And yes, pseudo-science is always pushed by political or corporate money.  See my smoking and seat belt analogies above.  Tobacco companies trotted out their handful of medical experts who said, "Well, I think the connection between smoking and heart/lung disease is debatable." 

 

My seat belt came in very handy, by the way, the night before last when we hit a deer turning from a gig.

(Note To Apple: No tow truck emoji?!) 
 
As far as consumer reports goes, you have to remember that they were the ones who made Norge washers so popular back in the 50's and they were nothing but problems for the owners and did not last long at all without many repairs. My parents found that out when they bought the 1957 set they had. They washed clothes well, but repairs were terrible.
 
Why don't we build better infrastructure

First of, my opinion doesn't even have to line up with any data. Opinions don't have to be fact based. That is basicly what most pro-HE people around this post try to point out.
That means as well though that your verry own opinion can be titled as factualy wrong.

For example: You're opinion might be that SQ TLs are the best cleaning washers out there. I value your opinion. It's just factualy plain wrong. We think that HE FLs are the way to go. Its our opinion, you should value it. It is however factualy true.
Same goes with everything else: Opinions can collide with data.

Now, if you want to build infrastructure to overcone mass floodings, heat waves, drinking water shortages and storms that might actualy blow your mind (sorry for that pun), I just want to point out that roads in Germany can be hell on earth to drive on. And that is without the things mentioned above.

Anyway, I'd like to hear which half of the science I am ignoring. Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere since the 1900s in conjunction with more extreme weather and overall rising average temperatures, mass extinction of animals... What again points out that is not connected to us?
 
"First of, my opinion doesn't even have to line up with any data. Opinions don't have to be fact based. That is basicly what most pro-HE people around this post try to point out.
That means as well though that your verry own opinion can be titled as factualy wrong."

Its not my opinion NYC was not hardened for Hurricane Sandy. That still would have happened even if the world went to 100% renewable energy a day earlier. Also, I said and it keeps being ignored: the experts can't agree on climate change.

"For example: You're opinion might be that SQ TLs are the best cleaning washers out there. I value your opinion. It's just factualy plain wrong. We think that HE FLs are the way to go. Its our opinion, you should value it. It is however factualy true.
Same goes with everything else: Opinions can collide with data."

In my case it is more of an opinion since clean is subjective and varies greatly on water, detergent, dirt, usage to name a few. However data backs up longevity for Speed Queen.

"Now, if you want to build infrastructure to overcone mass floodings, heat waves, drinking water shortages and storms that might actualy blow your mind (sorry for that pun), I just want to point out that roads in Germany can be hell on earth to drive on. And that is without the things mentioned above."

Which means we have a much greater problem at the heart of society than what type of washer people are using.

"Anyway, I'd like to hear which half of the science I am ignoring. Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere since the 1900s in conjunction with more extreme weather and overall rising average temperatures, mass extinction of animals... What again points out that is not connected to us?"

Just sift through Google and plenty of studies and sites say global warming is not man made, some saying its not even real. Yet you say it is.

But regardless, the earth has been far hotter and far colder over millions of years. Through ice core drilling science has shown us that CO2 varied and cycles through out history. Even if humans were 100% sustainable, chances are the climate would be changing anyways.
 
Indeed 100% of scientists don't agree on climate change... But at what point is the evidence considered good enough to consider action? And note the dates on the surveys cited in that graph, that was years ago! I bet they agreement today is even higher percentages.

I was raised in a family that recycled in the 70's. The idea is that all of us are but one person that lives on this big rock, and that we should all use only what we need. I just don't get why people resist the idea of doing things in an environmental or efficient (dare I say green) manner.

To a degree I think it was typified by Reagan when he took over from Jimmy Carter. Carter had environmental views and he added solar panels to the White House and did his television appearances wearing a sweater after he turned down the thermostat. Reagan came in and scrapped that and ripped down the solar panels. Apparently it is just un-American to not just use everything we wish consequences be damned.

There are thousands of words written about FL vs TL machines, but really in the end we should be doing everything we can to just do the most with the least. Seeing as all of us only have a brief spin on this planet, the responsible thing is to consider those that will come after us. Not a single one of our resources is limitless...

To anyone that denies global climate change, I can say this is one time when I dearly wish you are right and I am wrong. Pity that science proves this isn't the case.

kb0nes-2016081116193806717_1.png
 
 
All I can say about warming is that my car registered 104°F briefly on the 2-mi route from WM to home @ 2:30 this afternoon, heat index was 109°F, and ERCOT registered new record consumption highs Mon, Wed, and today.
 

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