iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
The way I understand it from the Miele manual is, the 18 lbs is for cotton and linens. With denim it’s recommended only using a 5 lb load. Is that correct?
Washer That Maintains Temperatures?
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John, the WP washers do have a presoak option, but if it is anything like my Duet, it advances into wash without draining/spinning before the wash begins. I'd suggest getting the 8620 as the app for the 9620 is pretty bad from what I've heard. I wanted to get a WP when I had to replace the Duet, but the only model available was the 560 and that was just unacceptable, hence the LG.
Reply #19
John, yes that's correct for denim. Check out what the manuall says for a load of towels. I vaguely remeber at least one of those models had a recommendatino regarding a load of towels.
My LG says Whites load has a weight limit of 15.6 lbs.
John, yes that's correct for denim. Check out what the manuall says for a load of towels. I vaguely remeber at least one of those models had a recommendatino regarding a load of towels.
My LG says Whites load has a weight limit of 15.6 lbs.
I looked at a Miele manual and it said a full load for towels was 11 lb. And cottons was 18 lb.
Weight and capacity aren't always exact one to one comparisons.
My older Miele in theory can wash 11 pounds/5 kg of wash. But even the owners manual states for loads of very absorbent items such as terry toweling, best to slightly underload.
If one loads more modern AEG washer to old school standard of "full drum leaving fist of space between top of load and inner drum), often machine will display capacity/overload 120% or maybe more. Have never gone above 120% but there you are then.
Obviously some items absorb more water than others which will increase total weight when things are fully wetted down. Then you have fact certain items don't compact down when wet much or at all.
You aren't going to be loading say 18 pounds of crisp percale bed linens into a washer even if that is full stated capacity. Things even when fully wet won't compact down much if at all giving a poor wash.
Especially when new denim jeans and other things don't compact down much if at all. Overload washer and you'll not only get a poor wash but badly creased things as well.
You'll notice whenever a program is designed for "no iron" or one wants minimal creasing either by dedicated cycle or whatever machine is usually loaded only to 1/3 to 1/2 capacity.
From SQ owners manual:
Loading the Washer
Load Articles
"Load items by the amount of space they take up, not by their weight. Mix large and small items in a load to get the best washing results.
Load items loosely into the wash drum. The bulk of the clothes rather than the weight will determine load size."
My older Miele in theory can wash 11 pounds/5 kg of wash. But even the owners manual states for loads of very absorbent items such as terry toweling, best to slightly underload.
If one loads more modern AEG washer to old school standard of "full drum leaving fist of space between top of load and inner drum), often machine will display capacity/overload 120% or maybe more. Have never gone above 120% but there you are then.
Obviously some items absorb more water than others which will increase total weight when things are fully wetted down. Then you have fact certain items don't compact down when wet much or at all.
You aren't going to be loading say 18 pounds of crisp percale bed linens into a washer even if that is full stated capacity. Things even when fully wet won't compact down much if at all giving a poor wash.
Especially when new denim jeans and other things don't compact down much if at all. Overload washer and you'll not only get a poor wash but badly creased things as well.
You'll notice whenever a program is designed for "no iron" or one wants minimal creasing either by dedicated cycle or whatever machine is usually loaded only to 1/3 to 1/2 capacity.
From SQ owners manual:
Loading the Washer
Load Articles
"Load items by the amount of space they take up, not by their weight. Mix large and small items in a load to get the best washing results.
Load items loosely into the wash drum. The bulk of the clothes rather than the weight will determine load size."
Loading…
manualsfile.com
washers with mega sized tubs
Most people are stupid enough to stuff everything into a tub. They then use cold and quick cycles and complain their wash was still dirty. Duh you're not gonna get clean clothes!
Most people are stupid enough to stuff everything into a tub. They then use cold and quick cycles and complain their wash was still dirty. Duh you're not gonna get clean clothes!
"the towels shown in that ABT video lok NOTHING like the bath/hand towels or wash cloths I have in my home."
Cannot be sure but those hand and bath towels in Abt video are either of woven textiles or not so plush terry cloth.
Woven hand and even bath towels are still common enough in Europe. Also terry towels aren't always the thick and thirsty versions found commonly on this side of pond.
Bath linen made of pure Turkish tend to be smoother than Egyptian or other cotton.
https://www.designerliving.com/get-inspired/buying-guide/how-to-choose-the-right-towel/2585
Personally have been moving my household over to waffle weave towels. Have a stash nabbed from France years ago and been adding to it ever since. They are absorbent, dry wonderfully and are durable. Best bit is they take up far less room in washer so more make "100% capacity) compared to say thick and thirsty heavy terry towels and wash cloths.
Cannot be sure but those hand and bath towels in Abt video are either of woven textiles or not so plush terry cloth.
Woven hand and even bath towels are still common enough in Europe. Also terry towels aren't always the thick and thirsty versions found commonly on this side of pond.
Bath linen made of pure Turkish tend to be smoother than Egyptian or other cotton.
https://www.designerliving.com/get-inspired/buying-guide/how-to-choose-the-right-towel/2585
Personally have been moving my household over to waffle weave towels. Have a stash nabbed from France years ago and been adding to it ever since. They are absorbent, dry wonderfully and are durable. Best bit is they take up far less room in washer so more make "100% capacity) compared to say thick and thirsty heavy terry towels and wash cloths.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
According to LG warm is supposed to be 104 degrees on the normal cycle with a warm rinse option for front loaders. This must be outdated, because members here have confirmed that this is not true. It also shows no selection for extra hot on any of the cycles except the default on sanitary.
Loading…
www.lg.com
John, unfortunately, that is very outdated material. LG did away with a temperature option containing a warm rinse about the same time WP did, if not before. Back in 2011 WP & LG both had steam generators and both firms eventually did away with that design about the sme time. The steam geneartor was far more effective than how steam is genrated now--just having a small pool of water in the sump/out tub area near the heater that causes wafts of steam to rise up from down below over the load. A lot of people argued with me over time because it didn't make sens for WP product seqence for steam to be regular wash phase, then drain, do a distribution speed spin, pause, add water to a resevoir near the top of the machine and dispsenser drawer, then spend 18-24 minutes heatng that smalll resevoir's amount of water into steam and shoots out into the tub (top left) over the load and gets very hot and invariably was extremely effective with the combnation of soppy wet fabrics still containing wash water chemical make up in the fabris. I was disheartened when I learned from HEnrik here taht both companies had done away with their steam generators in the washers probably due to cost.
As for the specification of 104 degree warm water on Normal, in their current design, that is only a capability with the heaviest soil level. Otherwise all other soil levels yield figures I have shown previously. Yes, LG did in the early 2010 decade provide those temperatures that were cited in their online literature. But it's way different now, maybe only here in the U.S. There was a member who found a discarded model back form that generation (like WM0624) or something like that. I looked up the manual onlne. Back then towels cycle was lumped into the category of being able to add steam or extra hot. Possibly even perm press. But the reality was, it was from back when my 2011 Duet was new on the market and the cycles on the LG offering steam or extra hot were very similar to my Duet, which as far as I was concerned was the standard of arrangement of features and heat were similar.
I will put temps in C for right now as displayed. I did two loads 2 days. Both on Normal one with hot and one with warm wash. Warm is obtained by alternating between hot and cold fill, not a mixing of the two. Unless extra hot is selected, hot also ends up with some alternating hot and cold. Both loads with cold outside, cabinet temp was 20C & 21C. The hot load filled with hot water and ended up at 38C and quickly went down to 35C. By the end of the 15 minute wash the temp had declined to 32C. Warm wash load after fill wat at 37C. Then began declining and by the end of the main wash as 31C.
Cycle where the heater will stay on (PP, Whites, Bedding, Towels) hot fill will otp out at 45C. With my water heater set at 120F, loads have been known to finish filling at 45C and begin to drop slowly since the target temp has been satisfied and won't come back on. Warm loads will fill between 33C & 35C and gradually decline from there.
As for the specification of 104 degree warm water on Normal, in their current design, that is only a capability with the heaviest soil level. Otherwise all other soil levels yield figures I have shown previously. Yes, LG did in the early 2010 decade provide those temperatures that were cited in their online literature. But it's way different now, maybe only here in the U.S. There was a member who found a discarded model back form that generation (like WM0624) or something like that. I looked up the manual onlne. Back then towels cycle was lumped into the category of being able to add steam or extra hot. Possibly even perm press. But the reality was, it was from back when my 2011 Duet was new on the market and the cycles on the LG offering steam or extra hot were very similar to my Duet, which as far as I was concerned was the standard of arrangement of features and heat were similar.
I will put temps in C for right now as displayed. I did two loads 2 days. Both on Normal one with hot and one with warm wash. Warm is obtained by alternating between hot and cold fill, not a mixing of the two. Unless extra hot is selected, hot also ends up with some alternating hot and cold. Both loads with cold outside, cabinet temp was 20C & 21C. The hot load filled with hot water and ended up at 38C and quickly went down to 35C. By the end of the 15 minute wash the temp had declined to 32C. Warm wash load after fill wat at 37C. Then began declining and by the end of the main wash as 31C.
Cycle where the heater will stay on (PP, Whites, Bedding, Towels) hot fill will otp out at 45C. With my water heater set at 120F, loads have been known to finish filling at 45C and begin to drop slowly since the target temp has been satisfied and won't come back on. Warm loads will fill between 33C & 35C and gradually decline from there.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
Thanks for the great info, Bob on the LGs. If it turns out that Whirlpool doesn’t hold temps I’m thinking I may just go with Speed Queen. I have a tank water right next to my laundry set to 140 at the tap. I have my washer outlet valves set to 105 degrees for warm. I’m thinking if I run a prewash, with the dual stainless steel tubs, it will hold temps decently to pretty well in the main wash. The only thing I won’t have is that gradual temperature climb. On the other hand I will have a prewash for my sweaty synthetics which were a problem for my last Maytag 4000 series front loader without the prewash.
sweaty cottons
How do you think it will handle your sturdy, sweaty, everyday cottons?
How do you think it will handle your sturdy, sweaty, everyday cottons?
Starting from cold then gradually heating to hot or boiling water temps is not the huge benefit many would believe.
Gradual heating of water came from European washing machines (front loaders) for a host of reasons. Primary among them was tendency to wash at or above 140 degrees F.
You also have fact few European homes have vast reserves of tanked hot water supply. Even with dual fill washers a heater was necessary to boost or maintain wash temps. Nowadays of course most washers sold in Europe are cold fill only meaning all heating is done by machine which sort of makes sense in most situations.
Immersing any laundry in temps above 100 to 110 degrees F at first will cause body secretions (which are protein based in nature) along with many other stains to become set almost permanently.
In old days when soap was queen of wash day and things were done by hand or with semi-automatic washers whites/colourfast, any else going to be washed in hot or boiling water, was presoaked or prewashed in cold water.
Modern detergents work perfectly well in cold (86 degrees F) to warm water thus if one isn't going to be using "hot" such pre washing/soaking isn't necessary usually.
Commercial or industrial laundries simply do a short flush (about five minutes or so) with cold or warm water before going onto main wash. SQ washers at local laundromat follow this route regardless of cycle chosen.
It's a bit wasteful with water but for certain loads one could do a short flush in warm water (using final rinse/starch cycle, but only draining water no spinning afterwards), then pre-wash in warm followed by a hot main wash. By that time of main wash machine will be warmed and pipes flushed of cold water.
Gradual heating of water came from European washing machines (front loaders) for a host of reasons. Primary among them was tendency to wash at or above 140 degrees F.
You also have fact few European homes have vast reserves of tanked hot water supply. Even with dual fill washers a heater was necessary to boost or maintain wash temps. Nowadays of course most washers sold in Europe are cold fill only meaning all heating is done by machine which sort of makes sense in most situations.
Immersing any laundry in temps above 100 to 110 degrees F at first will cause body secretions (which are protein based in nature) along with many other stains to become set almost permanently.
In old days when soap was queen of wash day and things were done by hand or with semi-automatic washers whites/colourfast, any else going to be washed in hot or boiling water, was presoaked or prewashed in cold water.
Modern detergents work perfectly well in cold (86 degrees F) to warm water thus if one isn't going to be using "hot" such pre washing/soaking isn't necessary usually.
Commercial or industrial laundries simply do a short flush (about five minutes or so) with cold or warm water before going onto main wash. SQ washers at local laundromat follow this route regardless of cycle chosen.
It's a bit wasteful with water but for certain loads one could do a short flush in warm water (using final rinse/starch cycle, but only draining water no spinning afterwards), then pre-wash in warm followed by a hot main wash. By that time of main wash machine will be warmed and pipes flushed of cold water.
Here's another thing
Various consumer groups in EU have tested and confirmed many washers do not reach or even sometimes come anywhere near chosen temp. A 60 degree C wash may only go up to 50 or 54 degrees C before thermostat goes off and remains so for duration of wash. This likely is almost certainly true for front loaders sold world over.
All those banging on about doing 60 degree C or boil washes may in fact be using temps ten or more degrees below.
One supposes on both sides of pond this has to do with government mandates on energy use. Few consumers have means of testing wash water temps or likely even care to investigate if getting what is chosen. Far as washing machine makers are concerned it probably falls under "what you don't know doesn't hurt you"
Various consumer groups in EU have tested and confirmed many washers do not reach or even sometimes come anywhere near chosen temp. A 60 degree C wash may only go up to 50 or 54 degrees C before thermostat goes off and remains so for duration of wash. This likely is almost certainly true for front loaders sold world over.
All those banging on about doing 60 degree C or boil washes may in fact be using temps ten or more degrees below.
One supposes on both sides of pond this has to do with government mandates on energy use. Few consumers have means of testing wash water temps or likely even care to investigate if getting what is chosen. Far as washing machine makers are concerned it probably falls under "what you don't know doesn't hurt you"
I don't have the latest issue at hand, but our consumer magazine found most washers to reach or surpass 60C when using the non-Eco Cotton cycle. I think both Miele models were even close to 70C.
Actual temps for some cycles have to listed in the user manual now or, for the ECO cycle at least, can be downloaded via the procuct information sheet that's linked right next to the energy label. These look like
https://media.miele.com/downloads/0c/02/07_F6154D09FD151EDD96A5A510D7A50C02.pdf
https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/eudatasheet/en-GB/WGG244A9GB.pdf
Actual temps for some cycles have to listed in the user manual now or, for the ECO cycle at least, can be downloaded via the procuct information sheet that's linked right next to the energy label. These look like
https://media.miele.com/downloads/0c/02/07_F6154D09FD151EDD96A5A510D7A50C02.pdf
https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/eudatasheet/en-GB/WGG244A9GB.pdf
Well glad they've got that cracked.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machines-delivering-right-temperature/
Using an infrared thermometer my AEG Lavamat only shows about 54-55 degrees C for 60 degree C wash.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machines-delivering-right-temperature/
Using an infrared thermometer my AEG Lavamat only shows about 54-55 degrees C for 60 degree C wash.
The EU temperature saga
So, this is where the EU appliance market encountered efficiency scoring really bad for the first time.
The "very first" energy label over here ment that you could reach A ratings in wash results, energy rating and spin results with virtually no trickery as long as you built a decent machine.
Most machines reached close enough to 60C to not be a real factor in hygiene, cycle times were reasonable, machines did what you expected them to do.
Then, the EU regulations tightened. It had been more than a decade, so assuming technology had progressed the new regulations wanted better efficiency.
But there was a kind of dissonance: The EU assumed people were running 60C cycles for getting clean clothes.
People already had widely moved on to no longer run 60C cycles for clean clothes though.
And reaching 60C (or even close) and getting the new top energy rating wasn't physically possible and wouldn't be until Miele kinda cheated the whole "How to wash clothes" system with PowerWash 2.0.
So, manufacturers complied with the new regulations and designed rating cycles that fullfilled the requirements to get an A+++ rating - but often still had the "mindset" like in old machines that the rating cycle should just be your normal 60C cottons cycle.
So, for the first few years, they just had that on cycle called "Cottons 60C", and made that the 4h long rating cycle that was more of a 40C wash if even that.
Then people realised what was happening - and once our consumer magazines caught on, news broke loose.
So, most manufacturers started to split the rating cycle from the normal cycle - so you had a true 60C cycle and your rating 60C cycle.
Now, with the new regulations, that debacle had been taken into consideration.
The EU didn't want a cycle like a normal cycle.
They wanted one universal cycle that could wash daily clothes regardless of what temp you would set for them - and just called it Eco 40-60 from the getgo, so no clear temperature target was implied.
And - to appease customers - they now require temps to be listed for that cycle and most manufacturers just list them for most common cycles.
The US had an entirely different issue from the getgo.
You never had temps defined - hot isn't the same for everyone.
And since your regulations are far more "basic" in the specifications they give, testing institutes had to fill in the rest.
So for the US, I wouldn't hunt for specific data - since there is very little.
Best way is to go with a machine with as many logical options as possible and then try the heck out of it during a return period.
For example, as many have pointed out, LGs Towels cycle is a good substitute for the normal cycle if more water is required.
Having both an Allergy and Sanitize cycle often allows for different temperature targets.
An internal heater will always get you more likelyhood of true temps.
Maybe even things like ELuxs stain settings could give you more flexibility there.
But at the end there, almost any US washer with a heater and the option to add rinses should have the opportunity to give you some cycle to fit basically any usecase.
Even though that might mean your Normal cycle on hot with 2 additional rinses now is what you got before without any options.
All you - mostly - really need is a good hot wash, a good warm wash and a good cold wash cycle. And sice Normal hot is warm now, all you need to get there is one cycle that gets nice and hot.
Low water levels can be irritating - but can often be compensated for by buying a bigger machine and loading less to give clothes more room to move plus additional rinses.
So, this is where the EU appliance market encountered efficiency scoring really bad for the first time.
The "very first" energy label over here ment that you could reach A ratings in wash results, energy rating and spin results with virtually no trickery as long as you built a decent machine.
Most machines reached close enough to 60C to not be a real factor in hygiene, cycle times were reasonable, machines did what you expected them to do.
Then, the EU regulations tightened. It had been more than a decade, so assuming technology had progressed the new regulations wanted better efficiency.
But there was a kind of dissonance: The EU assumed people were running 60C cycles for getting clean clothes.
People already had widely moved on to no longer run 60C cycles for clean clothes though.
And reaching 60C (or even close) and getting the new top energy rating wasn't physically possible and wouldn't be until Miele kinda cheated the whole "How to wash clothes" system with PowerWash 2.0.
So, manufacturers complied with the new regulations and designed rating cycles that fullfilled the requirements to get an A+++ rating - but often still had the "mindset" like in old machines that the rating cycle should just be your normal 60C cottons cycle.
So, for the first few years, they just had that on cycle called "Cottons 60C", and made that the 4h long rating cycle that was more of a 40C wash if even that.
Then people realised what was happening - and once our consumer magazines caught on, news broke loose.
So, most manufacturers started to split the rating cycle from the normal cycle - so you had a true 60C cycle and your rating 60C cycle.
Now, with the new regulations, that debacle had been taken into consideration.
The EU didn't want a cycle like a normal cycle.
They wanted one universal cycle that could wash daily clothes regardless of what temp you would set for them - and just called it Eco 40-60 from the getgo, so no clear temperature target was implied.
And - to appease customers - they now require temps to be listed for that cycle and most manufacturers just list them for most common cycles.
The US had an entirely different issue from the getgo.
You never had temps defined - hot isn't the same for everyone.
And since your regulations are far more "basic" in the specifications they give, testing institutes had to fill in the rest.
So for the US, I wouldn't hunt for specific data - since there is very little.
Best way is to go with a machine with as many logical options as possible and then try the heck out of it during a return period.
For example, as many have pointed out, LGs Towels cycle is a good substitute for the normal cycle if more water is required.
Having both an Allergy and Sanitize cycle often allows for different temperature targets.
An internal heater will always get you more likelyhood of true temps.
Maybe even things like ELuxs stain settings could give you more flexibility there.
But at the end there, almost any US washer with a heater and the option to add rinses should have the opportunity to give you some cycle to fit basically any usecase.
Even though that might mean your Normal cycle on hot with 2 additional rinses now is what you got before without any options.
All you - mostly - really need is a good hot wash, a good warm wash and a good cold wash cycle. And sice Normal hot is warm now, all you need to get there is one cycle that gets nice and hot.
Low water levels can be irritating - but can often be compensated for by buying a bigger machine and loading less to give clothes more room to move plus additional rinses.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
Hi Jerome. I never had issue with my true cottons. The synthetics would have gym smell to them.
Laundress. Thank you for that great information.
Laundress. Thank you for that great information.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
Henrik, what do you think of the LG 6700 and the AI 2.0 that has a soil sensor?
Gotta love these marketing departments, trying to slap "A.I." on everything these days.
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