sweaty cottons
How do you think it will handle your sturdy, sweaty, everyday cottons?
How do you think it will handle your sturdy, sweaty, everyday cottons?
Washer That Maintains Temperatures?
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launderess
Well-known member
Starting from cold then gradually heating to hot or boiling water temps is not the huge benefit many would believe.
Gradual heating of water came from European washing machines (front loaders) for a host of reasons. Primary among them was tendency to wash at or above 140 degrees F.
You also have fact few European homes have vast reserves of tanked hot water supply. Even with dual fill washers a heater was necessary to boost or maintain wash temps. Nowadays of course most washers sold in Europe are cold fill only meaning all heating is done by machine which sort of makes sense in most situations.
Immersing any laundry in temps above 100 to 110 degrees F at first will cause body secretions (which are protein based in nature) along with many other stains to become set almost permanently.
In old days when soap was queen of wash day and things were done by hand or with semi-automatic washers whites/colourfast, any else going to be washed in hot or boiling water, was presoaked or prewashed in cold water.
Modern detergents work perfectly well in cold (86 degrees F) to warm water thus if one isn't going to be using "hot" such pre washing/soaking isn't necessary usually.
Commercial or industrial laundries simply do a short flush (about five minutes or so) with cold or warm water before going onto main wash. SQ washers at local laundromat follow this route regardless of cycle chosen.
It's a bit wasteful with water but for certain loads one could do a short flush in warm water (using final rinse/starch cycle, but only draining water no spinning afterwards), then pre-wash in warm followed by a hot main wash. By that time of main wash machine will be warmed and pipes flushed of cold water.
Gradual heating of water came from European washing machines (front loaders) for a host of reasons. Primary among them was tendency to wash at or above 140 degrees F.
You also have fact few European homes have vast reserves of tanked hot water supply. Even with dual fill washers a heater was necessary to boost or maintain wash temps. Nowadays of course most washers sold in Europe are cold fill only meaning all heating is done by machine which sort of makes sense in most situations.
Immersing any laundry in temps above 100 to 110 degrees F at first will cause body secretions (which are protein based in nature) along with many other stains to become set almost permanently.
In old days when soap was queen of wash day and things were done by hand or with semi-automatic washers whites/colourfast, any else going to be washed in hot or boiling water, was presoaked or prewashed in cold water.
Modern detergents work perfectly well in cold (86 degrees F) to warm water thus if one isn't going to be using "hot" such pre washing/soaking isn't necessary usually.
Commercial or industrial laundries simply do a short flush (about five minutes or so) with cold or warm water before going onto main wash. SQ washers at local laundromat follow this route regardless of cycle chosen.
It's a bit wasteful with water but for certain loads one could do a short flush in warm water (using final rinse/starch cycle, but only draining water no spinning afterwards), then pre-wash in warm followed by a hot main wash. By that time of main wash machine will be warmed and pipes flushed of cold water.
launderess
Well-known member
Here's another thing
Various consumer groups in EU have tested and confirmed many washers do not reach or even sometimes come anywhere near chosen temp. A 60 degree C wash may only go up to 50 or 54 degrees C before thermostat goes off and remains so for duration of wash. This likely is almost certainly true for front loaders sold world over.
All those banging on about doing 60 degree C or boil washes may in fact be using temps ten or more degrees below.
One supposes on both sides of pond this has to do with government mandates on energy use. Few consumers have means of testing wash water temps or likely even care to investigate if getting what is chosen. Far as washing machine makers are concerned it probably falls under "what you don't know doesn't hurt you"
Various consumer groups in EU have tested and confirmed many washers do not reach or even sometimes come anywhere near chosen temp. A 60 degree C wash may only go up to 50 or 54 degrees C before thermostat goes off and remains so for duration of wash. This likely is almost certainly true for front loaders sold world over.
All those banging on about doing 60 degree C or boil washes may in fact be using temps ten or more degrees below.
One supposes on both sides of pond this has to do with government mandates on energy use. Few consumers have means of testing wash water temps or likely even care to investigate if getting what is chosen. Far as washing machine makers are concerned it probably falls under "what you don't know doesn't hurt you"
I don't have the latest issue at hand, but our consumer magazine found most washers to reach or surpass 60C when using the non-Eco Cotton cycle. I think both Miele models were even close to 70C.
Actual temps for some cycles have to listed in the user manual now or, for the ECO cycle at least, can be downloaded via the procuct information sheet that's linked right next to the energy label. These look like
https://media.miele.com/downloads/0c/02/07_F6154D09FD151EDD96A5A510D7A50C02.pdf
https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/eudatasheet/en-GB/WGG244A9GB.pdf
Actual temps for some cycles have to listed in the user manual now or, for the ECO cycle at least, can be downloaded via the procuct information sheet that's linked right next to the energy label. These look like
https://media.miele.com/downloads/0c/02/07_F6154D09FD151EDD96A5A510D7A50C02.pdf
https://media3.bosch-home.com/Documents/eudatasheet/en-GB/WGG244A9GB.pdf
launderess
Well-known member
Well glad they've got that cracked.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machines-delivering-right-temperature/
Using an infrared thermometer my AEG Lavamat only shows about 54-55 degrees C for 60 degree C wash.
https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/washing-machines-delivering-right-temperature/
Using an infrared thermometer my AEG Lavamat only shows about 54-55 degrees C for 60 degree C wash.
The EU temperature saga
So, this is where the EU appliance market encountered efficiency scoring really bad for the first time.
The "very first" energy label over here ment that you could reach A ratings in wash results, energy rating and spin results with virtually no trickery as long as you built a decent machine.
Most machines reached close enough to 60C to not be a real factor in hygiene, cycle times were reasonable, machines did what you expected them to do.
Then, the EU regulations tightened. It had been more than a decade, so assuming technology had progressed the new regulations wanted better efficiency.
But there was a kind of dissonance: The EU assumed people were running 60C cycles for getting clean clothes.
People already had widely moved on to no longer run 60C cycles for clean clothes though.
And reaching 60C (or even close) and getting the new top energy rating wasn't physically possible and wouldn't be until Miele kinda cheated the whole "How to wash clothes" system with PowerWash 2.0.
So, manufacturers complied with the new regulations and designed rating cycles that fullfilled the requirements to get an A+++ rating - but often still had the "mindset" like in old machines that the rating cycle should just be your normal 60C cottons cycle.
So, for the first few years, they just had that on cycle called "Cottons 60C", and made that the 4h long rating cycle that was more of a 40C wash if even that.
Then people realised what was happening - and once our consumer magazines caught on, news broke loose.
So, most manufacturers started to split the rating cycle from the normal cycle - so you had a true 60C cycle and your rating 60C cycle.
Now, with the new regulations, that debacle had been taken into consideration.
The EU didn't want a cycle like a normal cycle.
They wanted one universal cycle that could wash daily clothes regardless of what temp you would set for them - and just called it Eco 40-60 from the getgo, so no clear temperature target was implied.
And - to appease customers - they now require temps to be listed for that cycle and most manufacturers just list them for most common cycles.
The US had an entirely different issue from the getgo.
You never had temps defined - hot isn't the same for everyone.
And since your regulations are far more "basic" in the specifications they give, testing institutes had to fill in the rest.
So for the US, I wouldn't hunt for specific data - since there is very little.
Best way is to go with a machine with as many logical options as possible and then try the heck out of it during a return period.
For example, as many have pointed out, LGs Towels cycle is a good substitute for the normal cycle if more water is required.
Having both an Allergy and Sanitize cycle often allows for different temperature targets.
An internal heater will always get you more likelyhood of true temps.
Maybe even things like ELuxs stain settings could give you more flexibility there.
But at the end there, almost any US washer with a heater and the option to add rinses should have the opportunity to give you some cycle to fit basically any usecase.
Even though that might mean your Normal cycle on hot with 2 additional rinses now is what you got before without any options.
All you - mostly - really need is a good hot wash, a good warm wash and a good cold wash cycle. And sice Normal hot is warm now, all you need to get there is one cycle that gets nice and hot.
Low water levels can be irritating - but can often be compensated for by buying a bigger machine and loading less to give clothes more room to move plus additional rinses.
So, this is where the EU appliance market encountered efficiency scoring really bad for the first time.
The "very first" energy label over here ment that you could reach A ratings in wash results, energy rating and spin results with virtually no trickery as long as you built a decent machine.
Most machines reached close enough to 60C to not be a real factor in hygiene, cycle times were reasonable, machines did what you expected them to do.
Then, the EU regulations tightened. It had been more than a decade, so assuming technology had progressed the new regulations wanted better efficiency.
But there was a kind of dissonance: The EU assumed people were running 60C cycles for getting clean clothes.
People already had widely moved on to no longer run 60C cycles for clean clothes though.
And reaching 60C (or even close) and getting the new top energy rating wasn't physically possible and wouldn't be until Miele kinda cheated the whole "How to wash clothes" system with PowerWash 2.0.
So, manufacturers complied with the new regulations and designed rating cycles that fullfilled the requirements to get an A+++ rating - but often still had the "mindset" like in old machines that the rating cycle should just be your normal 60C cottons cycle.
So, for the first few years, they just had that on cycle called "Cottons 60C", and made that the 4h long rating cycle that was more of a 40C wash if even that.
Then people realised what was happening - and once our consumer magazines caught on, news broke loose.
So, most manufacturers started to split the rating cycle from the normal cycle - so you had a true 60C cycle and your rating 60C cycle.
Now, with the new regulations, that debacle had been taken into consideration.
The EU didn't want a cycle like a normal cycle.
They wanted one universal cycle that could wash daily clothes regardless of what temp you would set for them - and just called it Eco 40-60 from the getgo, so no clear temperature target was implied.
And - to appease customers - they now require temps to be listed for that cycle and most manufacturers just list them for most common cycles.
The US had an entirely different issue from the getgo.
You never had temps defined - hot isn't the same for everyone.
And since your regulations are far more "basic" in the specifications they give, testing institutes had to fill in the rest.
So for the US, I wouldn't hunt for specific data - since there is very little.
Best way is to go with a machine with as many logical options as possible and then try the heck out of it during a return period.
For example, as many have pointed out, LGs Towels cycle is a good substitute for the normal cycle if more water is required.
Having both an Allergy and Sanitize cycle often allows for different temperature targets.
An internal heater will always get you more likelyhood of true temps.
Maybe even things like ELuxs stain settings could give you more flexibility there.
But at the end there, almost any US washer with a heater and the option to add rinses should have the opportunity to give you some cycle to fit basically any usecase.
Even though that might mean your Normal cycle on hot with 2 additional rinses now is what you got before without any options.
All you - mostly - really need is a good hot wash, a good warm wash and a good cold wash cycle. And sice Normal hot is warm now, all you need to get there is one cycle that gets nice and hot.
Low water levels can be irritating - but can often be compensated for by buying a bigger machine and loading less to give clothes more room to move plus additional rinses.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
Hi Jerome. I never had issue with my true cottons. The synthetics would have gym smell to them.
Laundress. Thank you for that great information.
Laundress. Thank you for that great information.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
Henrik, what do you think of the LG 6700 and the AI 2.0 that has a soil sensor?
Gotta love these marketing departments, trying to slap "A.I." on everything these days.
John, I don't have a very good impression of the 6700. The AI cycle is limited to warm, cool, and cold. Just an example of the energy police getting people to use even less hot water because I bet most people would defaut to that or Normal cycle and that's it.
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