Washing powder - clogged my drains!

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

I

iej

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,929
Location
....
I'd a bit of an interesting mess this morning. Our drains were backed up and we had a camera survey done to figure out what was going on.

There were little mountains of washing powder residue built up over the years which had formed baffles in the sewer pipes on my property and had actually blocked the flow of waste.

Amazing what zeolite and other ingredients can do!!

About 30m of sewer pipe had to be jetted out with warm water to remove all the years of powder build up! I think I'll be switching to liquid + liquid oxygen bleach!
 
A camera survey is basically done by pushing a long fibre optic cable down the drain with a lens on the end (i.e. an endoscope) so they can see inside the drain. You get a DVD of the inside of your drains. It's fairly standard practice to find the cause of recurring blockages and detect things like roots infiltrating drains, subsidence or in my case 'caked up washing powder'
 
Zeolites are basically a form of sand; aluminum silicate. There has been expressed in the past concern about their effect on wastewater treatment facilities, as they can significantly increase the amount of sludge the plant has to handle. On the other hand, they don't boost eutrophication like phosphates are alleged to do.

 

Personally I think phosphates are a better cleaning solution if they can be removed in tertiary sewage treatment, and recovered and recycled for use in agriculture and industry.

 

Although this is the first I've heard that zeolites can clog residential plumbing.

 
 
Age of Home?

How old is your home and how long have you lived in it?

There was a report a few years back about the adverse effects of low-flow toilets and water saving appliances that attributed to this problem. Seems there isn't enough waste water to carry solids completely away from the residence.

It was especially a problem in older American homes that had been retrofitted with energy saving apparatus.

Malcolm
 
It was built in the early 1970s. The drains are most likely concrete of some sort.

We've some seriously complicated drains though due to the way the site is laid out.

3 bathrooms, kitchen and utility feed into it the system and it for some reason requires 18 manholes! Each one has a turn/junction or cascade.

It's a very steep site (we're built into the side of a hill). So, the last 2 manholes are about 18ft deep and have internal ladders!

Surface water (rain) is run thorough an exact duplicate of the system run along side it. So, all in all we've a LOT of pipes under the yard/garden etc.

We do have low-flow toilets (legally required in retrofits) but there is plenty of other water flowing down from high-flow showers and all of that stuff.

I think the issue may have arisen with our last washing machine which was using very little water. We've a Miele W1 now which is set to high rinse levels.

Older toilets here used a LOT of water though - up to 27 litres per flush on some 1960s toilets.
 
Yes, …happened to read something about some people that had the same experience   and also pipes inside the home...and blamed powders but IMO it's not detergent's fault,  well perhaps some  cheap or bad formualted ones that are overfilled with problematic ingredients, but not all...personally I don’t know anyone  who had this problem nor us and we use prowders from a life, but yes certain powders that do contain high quantity (kind of nonsense-high) of zeolites or  like fillers (non soluble) and also soda, and in presence of hard water  these great quantities of builders like soda will create some precipitations, add that to poor pipes manteinance,  the wear and or not proper materials and you may get a clogged pipe over the years in relation to these causes...they're all causes....
But often is one of those reasons taken singularly that cause the problems more, I mean, you can say you used TOL powders all your life, but if you had pipes made of concrete then here's the thing, or never pour descaler, or maybe one could say he has plastic pipes, but he uses crappy powders.....etc...
Liquids don’t typically contain many precipitating ingredients as the powders, but
the problem is not overturned anyway… liquids often require “help” to build a satisfactorily washing solution, especially in hard water,  and many  (most) miss bleaches also, so unless you will not use some peroxide, you will need  to add perborate or percarbonate and they’ll form precipitations .
Will talk mostly of detergents and such even though I hate and avoid like plague low flush toilet and yet another time I am flattened and shocked by such mandatory things and how they tell you what to do in your own house...but that's another thing...
Anyway....today’s machine that pretend to wash using no water are also partially to blame…. but not totally....
Let’s say that the fact you have concrete drains is another important  reason as I said, as concrete like other porous materials is fertile soil for precipitations and lint to stick with, gunk from grease and food from the kitchen will do the same or worse....…..
For pipes inside home:
Over the time pipes gets weared and become always more porous and prone to collect particles from whatever pass through, then more porous is the more they collect and block/attract stuff...
If your pipe material can stand such products, for kitchen pipes you may use caustic soda crystals and boiling water since soda will be effective on greasy dirts, while for laundry and toilets, some mild chloridric acid poured in from time to time will help removing all the scale and precipitations patina and build up soaps and detergent creates….that’s the best manteinance you can do.
Most of products like drano etc..are all caustic sodas (hydroxide), but  for scale and precipitations you better use an acid, not a base....acid will remove the residues of bases.
You could do this like twice a year.....
Not a case many of those washing machine cleaners are infacrt made by acids, you could also pour more often some sorts of milder acids such as citric.....and basics, as washing soda instead of caustic soda (sodium hydroxide)....
I think all relies in manteinance.....and if you have a problematic piping both for materials used or whatever this gains lot more importance to avoid expensive repairs granted that  you know your piping or you may end up doing the opposite, I mean if you had lead piping then maybe a strong chloridiric  acid is not a good thing, but a diluited amount from time to time or a milder acid will make no arm and will keep your pipes clean.
But let's just don't blame detergents, kitchen grease a food does the same thing, lint too......
Soap (bars) is also known for it's gunky residues ....

For sewers pipes.....well... not sure how that had happened, but I think it should have deposited before making their way into the outtake....is your septic the right dimension?

[this post was last edited: 1/19/2015-12:48]
 
The city used a similar endoscopic device to try and resolve a sewer issue in the street that was causing our pipes to back up once or twice a year.  Since we have a clean-out within the city's easement, they would dispatch a truck to clear the blockage for free as needed.  Finally one of the workers decided that this chronic problem needed further investigation, and placed an order for the camera crew.

 

They couldn't get the camera past a certain point, so they ordered repairs that included a new clean-out to replace our old one from the mid-1920s that was no longer up to code.  I was advised up front that all work would be done at the city's expense.

 

Once they dug in the street and exposed the pipe, they found that a connection had failed so one section of pipe was no longer lining up with the other and both were packed with mud, among other unsavory material.  I felt validated because I maintained it was the city's problem all along, and all of the repair work, including our new clean-out, was done at no charge to me.

 

 

 
 
Pouring corrosive acids down one's drains is not the answer to keeping them clear. You can go onto any plumbing Internet site and even the professional shy away from using such stuff for several good reasons. Many plumbers in fact will turn down jobs where a customer has previously used acids down the drain.

All drain openers work best where the clog is before the wall so to speak. Once you've got build up or a blockage deep down nothing but a snake/auger and or taking the pipes apart will do.

You cannot "flood" a pipe with acid or any drain cleaner to remove build-up or a blockage that reaches all way round. Best will happen is a hole or path will be cut through whatever, but much remains. This is why badly clogged drains cleared with standard products often clog up again. What is left behind acts as trap where more stuff builds again and soon you are back where you started.

Beauty of phosphate built detergents is you didn't need Zeolites (clay) and much less washing soda, borax or other alkaline powders. Zeolites never dissolve and washing soda may not fully depending upon how much used and water temperature. In the old days you soda was dissolved in hot water and dispensed as a liquid to make sure it didn't cause problems.

While many better powdered detergents have reduced or eliminated fillers there are still those with things that are pretty much saw dust.

Only use powdered detergent when doing hot or very warm washes. For cooler temps including cold it is liquids to avoid problems of dissolving.
 
Kenmoreguy89 :

I can assure you we don't allow cheap / bad powders into the house!
I'm 100% behind Hyacinth Bucket on that one!

The only powders that would have ever gone down that drain are Persil or Ariel.

Full Persil Bio ingredient list:

Sodium sulfate Bulking Agent
Sodium carbonate Builder
Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulfonate Surfactant
Sodium Carbonate Peroxide Oxidising Agent
Sodium Silicate Builder
Aqua Bulking Agent
Zeolite Builder
TAED Bleach Precursor
C12-15 Pareth-7 Surfactant
Bentonite Softness Extender
Parfum Fragrance
Stearic Acid Surfactant
Citric acid Builder
Sodium Acrylic Acid/MA Copolymer Structurant
Sodium Stearate Surfactant
Corn Starch Modified Enzyme Stabiliser
Sodium chloride Process by-product
Cellulose Gum ---
Tetrasodium Etidronate Sequestrant
Disodium Anilinomorpholinotriazinylaminostilbenesulfonate Optical Brightener
Calcium Sodium EDTMP Sequestrant
Sodium Cocoate Surfactant
Polyethylene Terephthalate Anti-redeposition Agent
Parfum Fragrance
Sodium bicarbonate Builder
Phenylpropyl Dimethicone Antifoaming Agent
Cellulose Binder
Calcium carbonate Bulking Agent
Glyceryl Stearates Emulsion Stabiliser
PEG-75 Binder
Kaolin Bulking Agent
Titanium dioxide Colourant
Sodium Polyacrylate Structurant
Geraniol Fragrance
Dextrin Binder
Butylphenyl Methylpropional Fragrance
Subtilisin Enzyme
Imidazolidinone Process by-product
Hexyl Cinnamal Fragrance
Sucrose Binder
Sorbitol Enzyme Stabiliser
Aluminum Silicate Anticaking Agent
Polyoxymethylene Melamine Process by-product
Sodium Polyaryl Sulphonate Process by-product
CI 61585 Colourant
CI 45100 Colourant
Lipase Enzyme
Amylase Enzyme
Xanthan gum Process by-product
Hydroxypropyl methyl cellulose Binder
CI 12490 Colourant
Disodium Distyrylbiphenyl Disulfonate Optical Brightener
Sodium Thiosulfate Enzyme Stabiliser
CI 42090 Colourant
Mannanase Enzyme
CI 11680 Colourant
Etidronic Acid Sequestrant
Tetrasodium EDTA Sequestrant
 
Laundress...the  acid they sell is for that exact purpose and it is normally found in any supermarket aisle for pennies per bottle, it's mild chloridric acid and depending on pipe materials it has been proved being safe and this is what they do for decades over here too keep pipes clear, plumbers suggesting so or not...each one of the says something different..but people keep using it and I do, believe or not it works,
Not sure, but maybe you confuse with the  professional sulforic acid which is indeed pretty dangerous and usually reachable only for professionals....it can also produce dangerous toxic fumes.
Bear in mind this was  to keep them clear (prevention)  of where the  scale  and such residues usually settle more (bottom) for the most but with the right tecniques it can also reach good part of a pipe.....not to unclog or solve  already compromised cases, in this very case plmbers do usually  rightly refuse, for fear to come in contact with the acid still in the pipes due to the clog, but again, we're speaking of troubles already happened or bad situations...my speech was to prevent that.
Also, the chloridric acid I talk about  is not that strong really, If I'd spill some in my hand and  rinse withinh two seconds nothing happens, it's cleaning acid and if you put like a  2l bottle or 2 into a bucket and fill the rest and drain all at once in a drain it's effective, you can acttually hear the scale frizzing inside and if done regularly it prevents the pipe to restric.....but if you already  have a clog  or a bad restricted  situation the advice is right not to use the stuff nor any powerful ones but rather try yourself before with one of those hydraulic probes in case of clog and yes call a plumber for inspection and cleaning if you  have an important restriction (BTW for restrictions now  they also do a new  jet/pressure cleaning with speific pressure washers that remove everything, both from domestic and sewers pipes, roots and so forth, it's pretty easy and less expensive than other methods) ... the acid in pipes if you have to broke walls  to unclog  or take apart the pipes or something like that  it's as they say a pain in the neck...I would refuse too...many  clogs are also often due to  objects  far ahead than pipe entrance in the wall, and no acid will  ever reach and  dissolve as water is still in pipes,  you may likely end to do a mess and cause more work to the plumber or whoever does the job, so risk to damage walls objects etc...

Drain openers  Drano Mr muscle etc... are  based on active ingredient  which is liquefied  soda solutions with or w/out bleach and sodium nitrate,  and are sold for alot of more the value the caustic soda flakes cost though being the same things...they  are also usually milder,  they're meant to solve a situation temporarily and the risk is that the clog may be so big or far that they can't even solve it temporwrily,  and as said  if  it is  that the pipe didn't get proper manteinace before they will serve to very little for that purpose, soon will form another one... but the speech is the same.
Soda flakes (also found in every supermarket aisle)   dissolved  in much water and or put directly in the drain and  foolowed  by a nice amount of boiling water are a godsend  to KEEP kitchen pipes clear of grease and gunk from soaps for the most if the average person capabilities, again if done regularly ,...and I can assure you it works...believe it or not.

 

[this post was last edited: 1/19/2015-19:30]
 
James, I was pretty sure of that...
But as i said it's usually more a factor than another...if  2 combined  I think  you should have gotten this disaster way before....
You can use the most TOL powder ever but if your pipes are made of material or are in a condition which is prone to collect more residues  then  before, even if in a right/limited amount of builders  and such  they will end being collected by your drains, not flushed...
Like a person may have all plastic pipes but if uses bad powders they will build and fill the plastic because of  their  amount out of proportion in the same lapse of time...
Not sure if you meant I said it's fault of you using bad powders, but I think I never said that...concrete pipes have their fame in casuing such problems and collecting residues, at the farm a (an house from 1700s) there were draisn made of bricks, and the other building made in 1900s they had concrete pipes, we replaced them all with strong plastic.....

Also:
Eternit concrete pipes over here  were used in the past 50s and  mid 60s, other than being cancirogenic are also the curse of sewer workers, ask anyone,  they attact minerals, grease  and  partciles  like hell, and the more and worn out they're the more the asbestos fibers will act as an hook....
Then I think to understand you had an issue with the sewer and tank, not pipes in the house... I am just surpised at how these residues weren't settled down in the spetic tank, but found thei full way like this....
Another reason why I love phosphates......my dear phosphates LOL

[this post was last edited: 1/19/2015-19:22]
 
There really is no substitute for a good long, strong snake.

 

Example: the shower stall in the '41 bath would periodically back up with kitchen sink and clothes washer drainage, since it was next in the line on the way to the main sewer pipe. I tried all sorts of drain cleaners and short snakes, but nothing worked. I lived with that for about seven years, couldn't figure out what the problem was. And since I don't regularly use the '41 bath, often I didn't catch the backup until it had overflowed the shower stall and gotten into the oak wood flooring outside the bath.  Finally I got a 50 foot power snake (Harbor Freight) for a few hundred $$ and ran it all the way from the cleanout on the exterior wall below the kitchen sink. At some point there was a lot of resistance and then it finally broke free. After that, no more backups into the shower stall.

 

Another example: the vanity sink in the master bath (circa 1965) was chronically slow. I'd pull the stopper and clean hair (my hair) out of that area, which would help a little, but it kept on getting worse. Last year I had enough, and took the P-trap off the drain and sent a lighter, smaller, manual snake right into the wall. Bingo, it came back with a big clot of human hair... not mine... probably from the previous resident, who was a little old widow who passed in 1996. No Draino or other "Plumber in a bottle" ever would have budged that hair clot.

 

 

 
 
Kenmoreguy89,

It's just the private element of the sewer system on my property before it enters the public sewer system. I've no tanks or anything like that.

They date from 1977 apparently and aren't asbestos-cement. The sewer guy confirmed that they're 6" heavy plastic mains with 4" spurs and with ceramic lined concrete junctions / turns at each inspection chamber.

The powder lodged in an inspection chamber where the water was making a turn. It coated the ceramic channel making it rough and that then caught toilet paper and blocked.

It all washed out quite effectively when they used a pressure jet cleaner with fairly warm water.

Also in the setup used here in that era sinks, baths, shower trays, washing machine stand pipes, dishwashers etc do not enter the sewer directly. They run into gully traps at various points outside the house using downspouts. These enter just below a grill on the gulley or someone into the top of the gulley. The gulley traps then run into the sewer system. So if you've a blocked gulley it backs up into the yard, never the house and there is no possibility of gas ever entering. We have the usual U-bend traps on everything to.

Surface water (rain) runs into a second set of gully traps that connect to the surface water drains and it's not mixed with foul water / sewage. High volumes of rain here would cause major issues for sewage treatment plants if surface water were getting in.

Only toilets are directly connected to the sewer lines via drain stacks with a bent at roof level.
 
@kenmoreguy89

No, unless you go to hardware stores or plumbing supply you cannot purchase acid based drain openers from the local shops. I went through a very bad clog several months ago and spent hours reading online, at the shops purchasing all and sundry, and so forth. In the end none of the over the counter remedies worked including professional strength acid drain opener. The latter was strongly warned against by postings of professional plumbers and they were correct it wouldn't work.

In the end had to get a man in with a strong professional electric powered snake to get at the clog. He had to take apart the sink pipes and snake directly through the wall opening to get at the clog. It was deep inside the pipes were none of the drain cleaners or openers ever could reach. I know this because bucket's placed under the pipes to catch anything as they were taken apart pour out all the various substances I sent down previously. Acid drain opener in particular was a hot pink color and that was clearly scene.

You have no idea how many are maimed to the point of serious injury by putting acid or even lye based drain openers down a pipe then something happens. It can bubble violently for instance splashing harmful substance up and at you. Or even worse they attack the clog afterwards with a plunger thinking the stuff has either gone or isn't working.

Again if the clog is anywhere near the opening of the pipe or even U-bend those substances normally will work. But once they are deep down the pipes the chances decrease. For one thing they become weakened and diluted after going through standing water.

The other fly in the acid or lye drain opener debate is they are mostly effective on grease, hair, food, etc... Lye in particular turns grease/oil/fats into a type of soap by chemical reaction (and generating a bit of heat while it is at it), that is what moves the clog.

If the clog or blockage OTOH is made up of inorganic substances then all bets are off.

Back to drain openers it can be very difficult to find lye or the crystals (Drano) anywhere. Most places don't want to sell it out of liability. Lye in particular is harder to locate than a virgin at a prison rodeo. Besides liability issues it is used in production of crystal meth IIRC.

As a child remember seeing cans of lye and Drano on every supermarket or local store shelf. It hasn't been that way in years.
 
No, unless you go to hardware stores or plumbing supply you

Laundress please, I beg you to read well!
I spoke of a very specific acid which is hydrochloride acid and it's found in supermarkets next to soda crystals, for second it's sold as a product by itself, and can be used for all the uses you want to use it for, aid in drain opening may be one, but is also used to clean toilets bowls, remove rust, it can also be diluited and used to mop, etc....
You keep speaking the opening of a clog, but I am speaking of  preventing pipe restrictions and stuff to build up.. so I wonder if and how is that in reply to the speech I made?  I got it wrongly? Help!

Effective Drain openers made of acid are typically made of sulforic acid, and yes they can't be bought in your regular stores, here as well,  you can read this in the second line of my post," reachable only by professionals",  I meant that....but hydrochloride in medium concentrations is found anywhere here..
Bear in mind I am speaking of here in Italy and Europe, but I know in US too is enough reachable as well, walmart and bigger stores usually carries the jugs....
The crystals of soda, yes for some odd reasons soda sadly aren't found  much in the US unless furnished hardwares, and when found they are not typically sold as" caustic soda crystals" as a product on their own as it happens here, but will often have a brand  may it be "Drano kitchen", and so forth or anyway sold as "drain openers"... they can have much more uses tha drain opening, cooking as well (pretzel and such)... that's so unfortunate of  how things works there IMO.... 

Well here, every shop from the small corner shop/grocery to the big supermarket will carry both the acid and caustic soda flakes in 1-2-3 kg/lt buckets and bottles.


People harmed by drain openers: World is full of potentially dangerous stuff if used by either stupid or utterly ignorant people, the dangerousness of a product is variable based on to the level of intelligence/stupidity of the user, if damage occurs it's fault of them anyway as long as bottle had all the warnings and safety measures,  it may be both for not wearing protections, do stupid things.not paying attention...certain things are also given for granted..... if damage occurs next time they gonna wake up.. and anyway is no one's fault except theirs out of their ignorance/idiocy...I believe every one in his right mind knows how to handle such things anyway...
I tell you in all honesty Launderess, I am quite puzzled by your replies, perhaps you missed to read well, or I wasn't clear, but I really keep wondering why you keep replying to concepts I never expressed,almost like putting words in my mouth i never said, and repeat stuff I already said like if they were news and almost like if I said the exact opposite of it.....

[this post was last edited: 1/20/2015-07:17]
 
James...
Oh so it was the ceramic, yes also ceramic is known to worn out and start to collect debris...ceramic attact scale more than plastic also.
Your set-up is quite weird for me as every home is required to have a septic system before enters town's sewage here...but it makes sense now.
 
Are you sure about that?

A septic tank is an alternative to a public sewer connection, usually used in rural areas that don't have public sewers. It's designed to basically anaerobically (or sometimes aerobically) digest waste and rot it down and return the waste water to the environment in a 'reasonably' clean state.

I've never, ever heard of them being used in urban sewage as you'd most likely massively contaminate the ground water. They work fine in very low density population areas but if you've lots of them clustered together, you really need centralised sewage treatment as otherwise you're relying on everyone maintaining their systems perfectly and in the real world that won't happen.

You can also do much more high tech treatment in a big centralised plant due to the economies of scale involved.

In rural areas, if one tank goes wrong the dilution factor (i.e. not having very many homes) will usually (but not always) mitigate that to some degree.

It wouldn't really make any sense to have a septic tank and a public sewer.

In a public sewage system you're taking waste from homes and businesses and treating it centrally (usually to a much higher level of purity than a septic can could possibly do) and then retuning the cleaned water to the environment.

Explains all : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank

---

Kenmore89 and Laundress:

The types of chemicals in drain cleaners are probably falling foul of increased consumer protection and environmental safety and even safety at work legislation.
Pouring harsh chemicals down a drain could damage the drain if you don't know what kinds of materials are involved. Most of us are blissfully unaware of what our drain pipes are made of unless we were involved in specifying the installation (built the house ourself) or we've had a problem and had to figure out what they're made of.

Most of us buy a house, and the drains, toilets etc are already in place and we've little/no idea how they all work beyond maybe the house plumbing and fittings. Once it goes down the drain, it's into buried pipes that could be decades or even centuries old.

Some caustic solutions may react very badly with old cast iron, steel and concrete drains and could dissolve the surfaces, cause pitting etc.

A lot of the older Victorian era (19th century) sewers around here would be made from wide cast iron pipes. They'd never use that kind of material these days as it would be astronomically expensive compared to plastics and concrete.

From a Health and Safety / Safety at Work point of view, you're possibly pouring nasty chemicals into a pipe that could subsequently be opened by a sanitation worker or a plumber needing to unblock it.

And, as Laundress pointed out, there's a risk of a violent reaction in a sink trap which could blow up in your face (literally).

There are also considerable issues with using liquid chemical drain unblockers or large amount of chlorine bleach or strong chemicals in general in septic tanks as you can kill off the bacteria that breaks down the sewage and cause major environmental contamination of ground water.

If you completely sterilise the septic tank, it will just sit full of gunk and you might need to actually add bacteria in powder/liquid form to re-colinise the tank.

In those kinds of systems, non-biodegradable material will also end up back in the environment so you should probably avoid pouring anything that isn't going to break down by biological action / reaction with water over time into your drains.

Even urban sewage plants don't really appreciate people putting in non-biodegradable products as they can ultimately pass through the plant and into the environment.[this post was last edited: 1/20/2015-07:44]
 
Yes I am sure, certain towns, with an undersized plant (now about all) may require you to install a traditional tank to facilitate the job that the town's plant has to do (yes I know it's not fair as you pay taxes to have water treatment, and they won't pay if your tank gets clogged though...ah ah the assholes! But it's so), while for houses not connected to public sewage, like the ones in the countryside you have to put an himoff type not traditional only an himoff.
http://casa.uncome.it/articolo/come-funziona-la-fossa-biologica-6734.html
Thanks for the explanation,me I fully knew what it is for....

"The types of chemicals in drain cleaners are probably falling foul of increased consumer protection and environmental safety and even safety at work legislation."

Yeah...the usual Nanny state for the stupid folk tale...poor world.

-"Some caustic solutions may react very badly with old cast iron, steel and concrete drains and could dissolve the surfaces, cause pitting etc."
-People unaware of pipes materials...

It's good advice to discover what your pipes are made of before pouring any chemicals, that's one of the points I warned of initially...those are things you learn as you live in your house...
Knowing the power based on concentrations is somethinh you also need to know.

Bad reactions are not that common but possible,and anyway usually due to very strong acid not the stuff you find at the supermarket, acid and lead or alu is another example (just watch youtube, it's full of kids making bombs with alu and acid), but it all relies in using a right quantity and know what you're doing, cast iron are known to be problematic anyway.... and it's not like you do that any day also...that's why stronger or concentrated stuff is used by professionals...but the others are not that dangerous in the concentrations that comes....sure is that on the long run and if used often will potenetially damage...but that something you do once in awhile.

"And, as Laundress pointed out, there's a risk of a violent reaction in a sink trap which could blow up in your face (literally)."
And that's why is stated and warned in any instructions of these bottles to pour on a certain distance and wear protections, if you're so stupid or too lazy to do that anyway it's your business, if something happens no one to blame except yourself, the same if you mix acid and base or do potions or stupid things... as long as you were given the chance to be informed (safety labels) then it's really your own business and fault.

"There are also considerable issues with using liquid chemical drain unblockers or large amount of chlorine bleach or strong chemicals in general in septic tanks as you can kill off the bacteria that breaks down the sewage and cause major environmental contamination of ground water. "

Unless you use tons of pure and or very big amounts and every day it's not that much of a problem...
Also, it happens that sometimes the enviroinment in the tanks is too acidic and adding a base from time to time helps to keep a favorable ph inside the tank, often that is reached by detergents that helps keeping a fair pH, that's why our domestic tanks don't typically turn too basic or too acid because we have a sort of balancing in this sense, the results of an anaerobic digestion is infact an acid...

Other common problems in tanks is mixed waters....

You may sure want not to run rain waters and such into the tank (this is for urban homes with septic connected to sewers and or country houses without a drain field and percolation system, becuase many old country houses here don't have an underground drain field but drains either in a ditch/trench or stream or surface lower to the house and they had the rain directed in the septic hence no problem of overfilling/saturated drain soil, now of course you generally need to make an underground draining system and have rain drains separated to the tank) as it will rinse off much stuff before it's digested and will result in a clog more likely to happen, also will diminuish the qty of bacteria, unfortunately this is what I see happening many times in town (still happening now even though some more conscious builders don't, in the past it was just standard for urban settings and before treating plants)....our condo also directs all roof drain waters in the drain columns and end up in the condo septic tank...
In this town like many others (would hazard saying most?) we have a common "mixed" sewer, called "unitario"- "Unitary" no separate white/grey and drak waters, all goes togheter to the treating plant, storm waters both from buildings and streets are mixed with waste waters in the sewers and all gets treated (that is also why they want not to over-work the treatment plant and ask you to put a septic),...many big cities such as Rome Naples etc... also still use many tracts of sewers that were built at the time of the Ancient Rome or ancient times.
This is not the best attitude today but doing a change in that sense would mean cut down a whole town or city and a crazy amount of costs no one can pay, especially now that we're squeezed like lemons to please and get fat the fucking "EU" and the sold out pigs that are our italians politicians ...

 [this post was last edited: 1/20/2015-12:54]
 
In general here, it's completely illegal to install a septic tank in an any urban are or rural area that has public sewers.
The logic is that a high-tech treatment plant is a far better solution and there's a risk of ground-water contamination.

Where you do have a septic tank, it's subject to annual inspections by the County Council to ensure it's working correctly.

You don't have to pay for waste water treatment if you're on one of those systems, but you do have to pay an annual inspection fee.
 
It seems if your septic tank fails the inspection, they will pay up to €4000 (about $4700) towards upgrades/repair work.

But, it's means tested against your income somewhat too.

You have to register the system etc at:

https://www.protectourwater.ie
 
Drains, clogs, low flow toilets, kitchen grease

Malcolm, very valid point re retrofitting low flow toilets, Ontario Canada Gov't. had a study re low flow toilets in existing 4 inch sewer pipes and drain line carry-results yes 1 or 2 flushes will not clear the waste to the street and this was in a test rig with new plastic drains properly sloped, clean-not the real world norm. and now we have some 3.8 litre vs 6 litre toilets-3 inch sewer pipe is the new standard I think? Also, keep kitchen fat and oil out of the drains, wipe with paper towels before washing and avoid future clogs. I have cleared a few friends kitchen drains, not at all a pleasant job, but what are friends for?
 
Our low flow are 6 litre. The older types use a syphon system and were about 9 litres. These have a handle and had no valves, the syphon avoids this.

I still have one of those and two 6 litre press button type dual flush.
 
I use powder

but how water for every wash......I can't remember the last time I used warm or cold. So far no problems. KNOCK ON WOOD
 
I usually only use powder with towels, light coloured bed linen as I don't generally want my colour clothes faded.
The mainstream bio washing powders here contain a source of peroxide bleach that releases during the wash along with a cocktail of enzymes and other detergent ingredients.

For normal laundry i.e. most of my clothes, I usually use Persil Small & Mighty (Bio) which is just a TOL concentrated liquid detergent.

I usually wash normal laundry at 40ºC (104ºF), some delicate items get done at 20ºC (68ºF) and I usually do towels at 60ºC (140ºF) and even 90ºC (194ºF) if they need to be really sterilised and more because it's just good for the washing machine to give it a good scald out with very hot water once in a while to prevent mould issues.

It's a Miele W1 washing machine which has a high-level rinse set so it's not exactly skimping on water and should be flushing plenty of it down the drain.

The drain also blocked about 150m away from the point the washing machine drain enters into it too so, it's unlikely the water would be hot by then even if it was pumped in at very high temperature.

We also have high-flow showers and plenty of other water going down those drain lines so they're not exactly lacking in water flow tbh.

I've done my last few towel loads using Persil Small and Mighty and a shot of Vanish Oxy Action Crystal White just added directly to the back of the drum and its seems to have worked extremely well. The towels came out nice and fluffy and very, very white after a relatively short 60ºC wash. (The little scoop of Vanish powder doesn't really seem to dispense very well from the drawer.)

The Miele W1's cotton cycle is actually pretty spectacularly good. It uses a combination of various tumbling patterns including some periods of tumbling at nearly distribution spin cycle speed while spraying the wash water back into the 'tunnel' created in the middle of the wash.

The jet switches on and off throughout the cycle and absolutely douses the clothes in water. The combination of the narrow drum holes in the 'Honeycomb care" drum and the powerful jet seems to really create a huge amount of water flow thorough the fabric and that seems to just gently, but very effectively clean it in a relatively short time.

It looks a lot more 'spectacular' than a typical FL washing - There's much more water cascading around the place and the drum's in action almost constantly - it hardly lets the clothes rest for more than 1 second.

Basically, I'm finding that in a 60 min wash cycle (this is when you press the Short option), I'm getting superior results to a 2h50min cycle on the Samsung we had previously!

For example, a 60 min cotton cycle at 40ºC removed deodorant marks on t-shirts that the Samsung never removed even on painfully long cottons programmes.

The Miele is also programmable to do very thorough rinsing which means it will fill pretty deep and add extra rinses too.

Overall, just very impressed with how well it cleans.

My only slight issue is that the floor is wooden (wooden structure) so I'm going to have to look at reinforcing it or possibly moving the laundry room elsewhere to reduce vibration. The Miele doesn't really shake but the house around it does lol
 

Similar threads

michaelz08
Comparing Available Powder Detergents
Replies
25
Views
832
michaelz08
michaelz08
launderess
Vintage Tide "Ultra" Powder
Replies
16
Views
198
launderess
launderess
G
dishomat dreams and ideas
2 3 4
Replies
94
Views
2K
maytaga806
M
panasonicvac
LG Washer/Dryer 5 year Update
Replies
8
Views
477
panasonicvac
panasonicvac
W
Help- Maytag LA712 motor discontinued - advice?
Replies
22
Views
457
combo52
combo52

Latest posts

Back
Top