Water Heater Suggestions?
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A Surprise
We thought the unit was about 10 years old, the time we've been in the house. I guess we were wrong by looking closely at the energy tag. And the model plate on the unit matches the date on the label. The unit still runs ok and heats ok, but we think it might be better to have it replaced.
We've considered one of the tankless ones, but there is no 220v in the garage and the gas line would have to be entirely redone as it is not large enough for the tankless models. So any thoughts of what might be a decent 40 gallon natural gas model? Checking out Whirlpool at Lowes, there might be issues with those. Home Depot carries GE, but an unfortunate experience with then yesterday may put them out of the running. Anybody have any experience with companies that may work nationwide they can recommend for a plumber?
We thought the unit was about 10 years old, the time we've been in the house. I guess we were wrong by looking closely at the energy tag. And the model plate on the unit matches the date on the label. The unit still runs ok and heats ok, but we think it might be better to have it replaced.
We've considered one of the tankless ones, but there is no 220v in the garage and the gas line would have to be entirely redone as it is not large enough for the tankless models. So any thoughts of what might be a decent 40 gallon natural gas model? Checking out Whirlpool at Lowes, there might be issues with those. Home Depot carries GE, but an unfortunate experience with then yesterday may put them out of the running. Anybody have any experience with companies that may work nationwide they can recommend for a plumber?
Water, Water, Water
Some of the newer dishwashers and front loaders fill in bursts rather than one continuous fill. In some cases its not enough to activate the heater. Comsumer Reports has done exhaustive research to find the cost of running water heaters and the amortization schedule on replacements. Currently it takes about 17 years to recoup the cost of a tankless. If the newer restrictions on emissions go into effect in 2012 as scheduled, coal generated electricity will be stopped or curtailed and electricity from hydro, nuclear, solar and wind will be stretched thin to cover the needs of the populace to say nothing of the cost. To that end a gas or propane heater might be a prudent choice. We have a boiler fueled by propane to serve the radiant heat and domestic water use. The radiant heat was scrapped after the house sat empty and the heat runs froze and ruptured. The boiler produces endless hot water for laundry, showers and kitchen cleanup.
Some of the newer dishwashers and front loaders fill in bursts rather than one continuous fill. In some cases its not enough to activate the heater. Comsumer Reports has done exhaustive research to find the cost of running water heaters and the amortization schedule on replacements. Currently it takes about 17 years to recoup the cost of a tankless. If the newer restrictions on emissions go into effect in 2012 as scheduled, coal generated electricity will be stopped or curtailed and electricity from hydro, nuclear, solar and wind will be stretched thin to cover the needs of the populace to say nothing of the cost. To that end a gas or propane heater might be a prudent choice. We have a boiler fueled by propane to serve the radiant heat and domestic water use. The radiant heat was scrapped after the house sat empty and the heat runs froze and ruptured. The boiler produces endless hot water for laundry, showers and kitchen cleanup.
cehalstead
Well-known member
type of tank
I have a Rheem RheemGlas Fury 40 gallon gas water heater. It was a bit pricey, but not something you would find at Lowe's or Home Depot. My "furnace guy" installed it eight years ago. It has a standing pilot, but the newer ones have a standing pilot with ignitor so that you can re-ignite the pilot without matches. I have never run out of hot water and sometimes on weekends there will be six people here. That requires a lot of showers and dishes (two dishwashers). Never goes cold.......if you wait about ten minutes between showers.
I have a Rheem RheemGlas Fury 40 gallon gas water heater. It was a bit pricey, but not something you would find at Lowe's or Home Depot. My "furnace guy" installed it eight years ago. It has a standing pilot, but the newer ones have a standing pilot with ignitor so that you can re-ignite the pilot without matches. I have never run out of hot water and sometimes on weekends there will be six people here. That requires a lot of showers and dishes (two dishwashers). Never goes cold.......if you wait about ten minutes between showers.
The complaints found on-line about Whirlpool heaters are way old and the problems were fixed long ago. They're made in USA too. We got one at Lowe's with 2" insulation which eliminated the need for an insulating blanket.
My only caution would be that the one we got really roared when the burner was lit. If yours is near a living area, that might be something to consider. We have a cheap Kenmore (6 year warranty) where we live now, and it's super quiet when the burner is going.
My only caution would be that the one we got really roared when the burner was lit. If yours is near a living area, that might be something to consider. We have a cheap Kenmore (6 year warranty) where we live now, and it's super quiet when the burner is going.
My heating guy told me.........
This is, of course, when I owned instead of rented: He said that the longer the tank warranty the better built (and yes, more expensive) the tank would be.
My landlord replaced a 40 gallon no-name with a 30 gallon gas Whirlpool, and I have been most satisfied with it. I forget what the first hour recovery rate is, but it keeps up with my Maytag top-loader, my GE Nautilus dishwasher, and even a shower.
Tankless water heaters have an appeal, and advantages, but unless a person is building or extensively remodeling, the best answer is probably another tank of whatever fuel and size there is now. There are separate fiberglass blankets to add insulation, if one wants to do that.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
This is, of course, when I owned instead of rented: He said that the longer the tank warranty the better built (and yes, more expensive) the tank would be.
My landlord replaced a 40 gallon no-name with a 30 gallon gas Whirlpool, and I have been most satisfied with it. I forget what the first hour recovery rate is, but it keeps up with my Maytag top-loader, my GE Nautilus dishwasher, and even a shower.
Tankless water heaters have an appeal, and advantages, but unless a person is building or extensively remodeling, the best answer is probably another tank of whatever fuel and size there is now. There are separate fiberglass blankets to add insulation, if one wants to do that.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
xraytech
Well-known member
Well, the only Water heater that we have ever had is Bradford-White. We just got our 3rd one here in 18 years, and we replace so often because of the hardness of our well water here, its hard with lots of Lime, thus causing more frequent replacements
If a heating system is well designed and calculated, a tankless heater can save you a lot of money and pay itself much quicker than what CR said.
If I were you, I'd consult an engineer before purchasing a new tank. There are some models that even recirculate the water in the pipes to keep it warm, so you don't need to wait until hot water reaches the tap and the heater will spend gas only to heat what you will really use. Some electronic models are even more advanced and adjust the flame according to the water in and out temperature. You never run out of hot water.
The biggest problem I've seen with the few people in Brazil that have heaters and use tankless is that they want to spend less when they buy the heater and end by buying an undersized model, than complain "that crap doesn't heat enough" or "to heat i need to reduce the water flow".
Others, afraid of this problem, spend much more than really needed buying oversized models and complain it spends too much gas and sometimes the water is too hot.
Please note i don't know beans about hard water and how do these tankless heaters would behave under hard water service. Here the water is so soft that most people never heard about it. As I said, there's nothing better than a professional to give you further information. Specialy if it's a professional that doesn't work for any heater company, so they won't try to convince you to buy their product.
If I were you, I'd consult an engineer before purchasing a new tank. There are some models that even recirculate the water in the pipes to keep it warm, so you don't need to wait until hot water reaches the tap and the heater will spend gas only to heat what you will really use. Some electronic models are even more advanced and adjust the flame according to the water in and out temperature. You never run out of hot water.
The biggest problem I've seen with the few people in Brazil that have heaters and use tankless is that they want to spend less when they buy the heater and end by buying an undersized model, than complain "that crap doesn't heat enough" or "to heat i need to reduce the water flow".
Others, afraid of this problem, spend much more than really needed buying oversized models and complain it spends too much gas and sometimes the water is too hot.
Please note i don't know beans about hard water and how do these tankless heaters would behave under hard water service. Here the water is so soft that most people never heard about it. As I said, there's nothing better than a professional to give you further information. Specialy if it's a professional that doesn't work for any heater company, so they won't try to convince you to buy their product.
Recirculator
Our house originally had floor heat in the garage, main floor and upper level. When it was in use the circulation helped to keep hot water supply at the taps. Since the system was comprimised by so many leaks after freezing the floor heat is disconnected. It took 3.5 minutes for hot water to reach the master bath at the opposite end and upper level. The restrictor on the shower head which slows water volume added to the wait but it was still too long. The norm was to turn on the hot tap in the shower and sink while getting ready for bed. After brushing my teeth I was lucky if the water was even warm. Between fills on the dishwasher cycle the water grows cold in the floor and then lowers the wash and rinse temp. We had a recirculator with a loop added to the system. I cost us about $600.00 and would have been about 1/3 of that if I knew how to plumb and just bought the pump. We are lucky to be on a well and not paying water and sewer for all those wasted gallons. There are so many new regulations requiring expansion tanks, elevation and tie downs on water heaters the install can easily double the price of the water heater.
Our house originally had floor heat in the garage, main floor and upper level. When it was in use the circulation helped to keep hot water supply at the taps. Since the system was comprimised by so many leaks after freezing the floor heat is disconnected. It took 3.5 minutes for hot water to reach the master bath at the opposite end and upper level. The restrictor on the shower head which slows water volume added to the wait but it was still too long. The norm was to turn on the hot tap in the shower and sink while getting ready for bed. After brushing my teeth I was lucky if the water was even warm. Between fills on the dishwasher cycle the water grows cold in the floor and then lowers the wash and rinse temp. We had a recirculator with a loop added to the system. I cost us about $600.00 and would have been about 1/3 of that if I knew how to plumb and just bought the pump. We are lucky to be on a well and not paying water and sewer for all those wasted gallons. There are so many new regulations requiring expansion tanks, elevation and tie downs on water heaters the install can easily double the price of the water heater.
Thanks!
Appreciate the feedback. The search is still on with estimates going from $1015.00 to $750.00 for a replacement. Our water here is hard a rocks so I'm surprised this thing has lasted since 1994. It is in the garage so the install shouldn't be too hard. The Brandford White name keeps coming up as well and Rheem, so I'll check which models the estimates include.
I have seen some houses here with the recirculator pump. Usually we'll have hot water in just a few moments in the bathroom farthest from the tank. I fill up a pitcher to save the cold water and use it for watering plants or filling the dogs' water dish.
Appreciate the feedback. The search is still on with estimates going from $1015.00 to $750.00 for a replacement. Our water here is hard a rocks so I'm surprised this thing has lasted since 1994. It is in the garage so the install shouldn't be too hard. The Brandford White name keeps coming up as well and Rheem, so I'll check which models the estimates include.
I have seen some houses here with the recirculator pump. Usually we'll have hot water in just a few moments in the bathroom farthest from the tank. I fill up a pitcher to save the cold water and use it for watering plants or filling the dogs' water dish.
polkanut
Well-known member
We have a 12 1/2 year old natural gas Ruud 40 gallon heater w/ power vent, and in all that time I've only run out of hot water once. The time I did run out, I was running our Maytag toploader, dishwasher, and taking a shower all at the same time. We have our heater set at about 125 degrees, and find it to be more than adequate for our needs (2 adults). It is on the loud side, but it is in the basement so it doesn't bother us.
We replaced our old Rheem water heater with a Bradford-White and have been very happy. Our gas bill dropped by almost half immediately after installing it. I chose B-W based on the recommendation of my brother who is in charge of facilities for a major national restaurant chain. They use these in most of their restaurants. I was considering tankless but decided not to because of issues associated with scale buildup and premature failure.
I'd stick with a tank type heater, but I'd also have a spare anode rod on hand and check it every couple of years. When the anode rod loses 2/3 of its sacrificial cladding, it's time to replace it.
Esp since it sounds like your water is aggressive.
Higher quality (longer warranty) water heaters may have two anode rods, one in the usual location, the other integrated into the hot water outlet pipe. As pointed out, they may also have thicker insulation and a faster recovery rate. I'm not sure if they would have better quality tank metal/glass coating.
Esp since it sounds like your water is aggressive.
Higher quality (longer warranty) water heaters may have two anode rods, one in the usual location, the other integrated into the hot water outlet pipe. As pointed out, they may also have thicker insulation and a faster recovery rate. I'm not sure if they would have better quality tank metal/glass coating.
We put in a new water heater about 6 years ago. We went to Menards, and Lowes, to shop and compare.
Menards had a Richmond brand, Lowes carried a Maytag, among others. They had similar features, they were within a few dollars on price. What made the difference? The Maytag was made by State Industries, in Tennessee. The Richmond? Made in Mexico.
Needless to say, we have a Maytag water heater living happily in the basement!
Menards had a Richmond brand, Lowes carried a Maytag, among others. They had similar features, they were within a few dollars on price. What made the difference? The Maytag was made by State Industries, in Tennessee. The Richmond? Made in Mexico.
Needless to say, we have a Maytag water heater living happily in the basement!
The water here is like a rock. I use a calcium filter when I fill the pool, to try to keep it from building up minerals. It has seemed to help. Heaven only knows what the pipes in the house look like. I use Lemi-Shine in the dishwasher about once a week to keep it looking clean and not have a build up.
Interesting that the old water heater is a State. I think I'll throw that one into the search as well.
Interesting that the old water heater is a State. I think I'll throw that one into the search as well.
Water makes a huge difference
The water here is moderately soft, and must not be very aggressive.
Case in point: the 50 gallon water heater here was installed in 1977. In 2002 I replaced the drain valve, the pressure relief valve, and the anode rod. The old anode rod still had 1/3 of its material left on it.
I guess it will be due for another anode rod inspection in a year or so...
The water here is moderately soft, and must not be very aggressive.
Case in point: the 50 gallon water heater here was installed in 1977. In 2002 I replaced the drain valve, the pressure relief valve, and the anode rod. The old anode rod still had 1/3 of its material left on it.
I guess it will be due for another anode rod inspection in a year or so...
whirlcool
Well-known member
For those of you who have long lasting water heaters I'll bet that you drain off some of the tank periodically.
It seems that if you drain off the bottom from time to time the heaters seem to last a lot longer!
It seems that if you drain off the bottom from time to time the heaters seem to last a lot longer!
philr
Well-known member
Here, electricity is cheap and most people use electric water heaters.
I still don't understand why every manufacturer makes them so short lived now. For those who can't afford having a leaking water heater, there should be an alternative that lasts a lifetime or longer... Water heaters are so prone to leak now that insurance companies are now refusing to cover their clients for damage caused by a leaking water heater if it's over 10 years old.
I know someone who has a 40 (imperial) gal. McClary electric water heater that he bought new in 1955 and it still doesn't leak... He had to replace the thermostat and the single element after the thermostat wend bad two years ago (there was no overheat protection so it heated water until it became gas and hot water ran in the big 90 gal. reserve for his well). His wife noticed there was something wrong when she saw steam coming from the hot water pipe and hot water on the cold side... She had flushed the toilet a few seconds before and the porcelain tank cracked just after she noticed there was something wrong!
I still don't understand why every manufacturer makes them so short lived now. For those who can't afford having a leaking water heater, there should be an alternative that lasts a lifetime or longer... Water heaters are so prone to leak now that insurance companies are now refusing to cover their clients for damage caused by a leaking water heater if it's over 10 years old.
I know someone who has a 40 (imperial) gal. McClary electric water heater that he bought new in 1955 and it still doesn't leak... He had to replace the thermostat and the single element after the thermostat wend bad two years ago (there was no overheat protection so it heated water until it became gas and hot water ran in the big 90 gal. reserve for his well). His wife noticed there was something wrong when she saw steam coming from the hot water pipe and hot water on the cold side... She had flushed the toilet a few seconds before and the porcelain tank cracked just after she noticed there was something wrong!
Too bad they don't still make the Monel tank water heaters. Those would last many decades.
