Water Heating in washers

[yogitunes]

For the machines that have the built in heaters inside.....what's the temp that it brings the water up to?

My hot water is set at 160 degrees, would it raise it higher than that?....wold that be as high as the sani-cycle of the dishwasher to kill germs?

just curious before selecting this option.....

 

[appnut]

Martin, most of the U.S. products (Whirlpool, Kenmore, Maytag) have a spec of 153 degrees for the Sani wash. LG products are about the same. The Speed Queen models with the boosted hot ony heat to 140 degrees. The uber Miele Sanitize cycle is also about 153 to 155. I have no idea aobut the Samsung. As for the Bosch, it's got two Sanitize type cycles. One for kids wear that heats to 155 degrees and a Sanitize cycle that heats to 170 degrees. I'm pretty sure the Miele will reach st point temp. As will the Bosch and Miele. I do believe all 3 simply pause the timer until set temp is reached. I do not theink the LG or Whirlpool based products will do that. They will only go through the heating phase for so long and after a set amount of time "pausing", if temp isn't reached, it still continues to progress through the cycle. For hot wash, the Whirlpool products have a set point of 125 to 130 degrees. For the Bosch, it's 125 degrees. For Miele I believe it's 120 to 125 degrees. For Speed Queen, ti's whatever the household water heater is set at. Oh, almost forgot the Frigidaire products. From wht I've been able to ascertain, only their sanitize cycle heats to like 150 to 155 degrees. The supplemental heater is supposedly not used at all to raise or maintain temps for hot or warm like all the other brands, except for SQm, which likke I said, doesn't.

 

[nmassman44]

I can speak from my experience. My Miele 4800 heats to 153 on Sanitize. The cycle itself will extend the wash cycle. On Custom it does not. The Hot water temp is 140. Very warm runs about 120. Warm is 105. Cold runs about 70 and No Heat is tap cold. The Miele washer kicks the 1000 watt heater on at the very start of the wash segment. If my water isnt hot enough which it does run at 130 at the tap it will turn the heater on to get the water to 140 for a Hot wash temp. It doesnt take long at all for it reach that temp. In Fact one could connect just cold water to the machine. If the hoses are reversed for some reason the washer will "fix" the problem when it senses the water temp.
The Miele will also maintain the set water temp during the wash phase by turning the heater on and off when needed. Normal wash cycle and Extra white run about 75 mins at the most. The wash phase is long at 40 mins. But the washer uses its HydroMatic wash action that no other front load washer has. When the wash load is fully saturated and the washer is no longer adding water to satisfy the sensor it will go into Hydromatic washing phase. It adjust the speed of the drum. In the case of Extra White it will power wash the load then slow the speed down to a soak. Then reverse and do it all over again.
On the Maytag/Samsung Neptune I had the water heater was only there to maintain wash water temp. It was not designed to raise it since in reality it really couldnt at less than 400 watts. And it would not even kick on most of the time either.
The Frigidaire built front loaders I have use didnt have a heater.

 

[appnut]

Thanks Mike. I knew you'd fine-tune what I'd said. that Miele sounds so cool!!!

 

[suburbanmd]

Miele water heating

My Miele W4840 definitely extends the wash cycle on Custom, if needed to reach the target temp.

 

[iheartmaytag]

My Maytag says it will reach 157 on Sanitize. I ony used it once, it extended the cycle almost three hours. I know it got hot, I didn't measure as the door locks and adds cold water if you push pause during the cycle. I wasn't smart enough at to try to measure the drain temp so can't verify the temp.

 

[mysteryclock]

My Bosch Nexxt 500 has this program:

"XXTRA SANITARY
This program was specifically designed to eliminate most common houshold bacterium while providing gentle treatment of fabrics. At the beginning of the washing phase, hot water is introduced and then the internal heating element heats the water to 167F-174F for a minimum of three minutes. Clothes will be saturated in the hot water long enough to kill most common household bacterium, yet without causing additional wear and tear to the clothes."

It clocks in at well over 2 1/2 hours whenever I run it with a load of clothes. If I'm just running it with some DW detergent to clean the tub, it'll get down to about 2.

Honestly I use it more often to clean the machine than on clothes.

 

[launderess]

Have said it before,

Shall say it again; most "common" household bacteria are all around one's home and aren't going to cause harm. Exceptions being perhaps the very young or elderly, and or those who are already ill.

Even if one could "kill" such bacteria they are all around one's home including where laundry and china for that matter are stored. Therefore items would quickly become "contaminated" again.

The most common household bacteria is E.Coli, and unless one is laundering things grossly covered in feces as most hospitals must contend with, (diapers, linens, etc), e coli is all around and can be dealt with by most normal cleaning methods.

Proper handwashing techniques, especially when preparing and before cooking and eating food gives more bang for the disenfecting buck, than boiling one's laundry.

Finally, as also stated before, thermal disenfection can be some what of a hit or miss thing. There are many, many different bacteria, moulds, viruses, etc and all have various levels of resistance to heat. Chemcial disenfection, OTHO kills a much wider array of "germs" with more certan outcomes. The standard for comparing chemical versus thermal disenfection has long been chlorine bleach. That stuff will kill most anything one throws at it, and does so even in cold water.

L.

 

[tomturbomatic]

My 220 volt Mieles will heat to 190F and the Creda to 200F, but I don't think it was meant solely to kill germs. Hot water at those temperatures will definitely whiten cotton and linen. North of my home is a textile mill that made canvas sails for ships from colonial times. One of the big improvements at the mill was the installation of the superheater, as they called the boiler, for bleaching the cotton. In countries where chlorine bleach is not used, boil washes whiten quite well and, Laundress, if you had the 220 volt circuitry in your apartment, you might be more enamored of washing that way. With 180F wash and detergent boosted by stpp, I don't have discoloration in the underarm areas of my T-shirts.

I don't subscribe to the theory that anything that is sanitized becomes contaminated as soon as it emerges from the washer or dishwasher. If such were the case, restaurant and other institutional kitchens would not be forced by health regulations to make sure that their food service ware was processed in accord with standards that produce dishware as free of bacteria as possible. They test this by running a wet swab over items and culturing the results. Those who handle the clean items are instructed how to handle them so as not to contaminate them moving them from the dishwashing area to storage. This is a reason why towels cannot be used on the dishware. If even a few bacteria remain alive on the dishes, they will grow rapidly when they come into contact with salads, desserts and other foods that are plated well ahead of serving time. Decades ago studies in homes revealed that dishwashers reduced germ transmission among family members.

If you remember anything about the so called flesh-eating bacteria which is spread in locker rooms among other places, cross contamination of textiles is to be strictly avoided with each person using only his or her set of garments and linens. Afterwards, these are washed to standards that kill bacteria but they remain sanitary until used again.

 

[whirlpolf]

amazed about "cooler" Miele US machines

hi guys, I did not know that Miele apparently dropped the temperatures for the American market (quoting Mike: "My Miele 4800 heats to 153 on Sanitize.")
I was assuming they shipped their machines just with English control panels and that was it.

Most Euro households here go by the simple "30-60-90" rule, meaning: delicate, colors, cottons. And all Mieles that I have ever seen go by these settings, just as any other brand here (having heating elements of 2 or 3kW usually). See chart for details.

In the 70s and 80s (oil crisis) many manufacturers began to "recommend" 70°C (158 F) as "energy saving option", still hot enough to "sanitize". (Yet up to now, all more traditional housewives consider 95° the one and only "really" hygienic cycle).

I usually use 40°C, sometimes 60°C *shrug..*
Joe

 

[danmantn]

"Boil Wash"

I recently visited my grandparents home (they are both gone now, but my aunt still lives there). I visited the "Wash House" which is where I use to go out and hang out and watch the wringer washer splish splash away back in the early 1980s. They still have a 1950s Fridgidaire fridge out there keeping drinks cold.

Anyway, in the wash house still has a huge pot over fireplace (that resembles a BBQ) where my grandmother use to actual boil-wash her clothes (before the wringer came about). My how times have changed. I'm not sure if I've ever worn boil-washed clothes...but I sure miss running through the clothes on the clothes line on sunny days.

 

[launderess]

TomTurbomatic:

Restaurants and other places that prepare and serve food such as restaurants have several sources of contamination. Ranging from preparation to handling, to the persons eating/drinking, to whomever (or whatever) cleans up the dishes and washes them et al.

There are some bacteria, like the one which causes Thyphoid Fever that are very hard to shift by normal hand washing,especially if the person handling food/china has not been careful about washing his hands after using the bathroom. Same for E.Coli and many other food transmitted germs. Hence the chemical or thermal sanitising of restaurant dishes by local code standards. It is also the reason why persons who will handle dishes and such are taught the proper way to do so to avoid any possible contamination, regardless of how "clean" their hands are.

Then again, depending upon how one was brought up, this is always the case. I never touch the "business" end of china, glassware or whatnot when they come out of the dishwasher, being put away or when setting the table. Nor is one supposed to sneeze or cough over clean china, etc.

Every where one looks there will be dust, airborne germs and other "stuff" that lands on all surfaces. Many restaurants set tables the night before or well in advance of use. This leaves plenty of time for god only knows what to settle on "clean" dishes and contaminate them.

Have told this story before, one of the first assignments in my Microbiology class at nursing school was to culture and swab various surfaces. You would be surprised what is living on things one comes into contact with, even those that are "clean" or have just been "cleaned". Even if you put on sanitised drawers, they would be full of E.Coli and what not the minute you broke wind, or went to the gents and pulled your drawers back up.

Even hospitals do not depend upon the laundering process alone to render items totally germ free. And totally germ free a thing has to be, or the germs remaining will simply recolonize the areas where killed bacteria once where.

 

[launderess]

Boil Washing

There is a popular theory that boiling was done to "clean" all laundry back in the day, which is not true.

Boiling (of white and sturdy items only), was usually done as the second or third washing, after laundry had been soaked and scrubbed. Not only did boiling shift any remaining dirt or stains, it helped open the textile fibers to release soap that was used for cleaning. Subsequent hot rinses helped carry the soap residue away as well. Without this the soap residue would turn laundry yellow, especially if said laundry was ironed.

Yes, boiling did kill germs and vermin living on laundry, but that was only if done as the first step. This is something many did not like to do because as we know today, and they knew then, a hot first wash can and will set some stains and soils so they are more difficult to remove, if they can be at all afterwards.

With the advent of oxygen bleaches, boil washes were used to whiten laundry. However on early European washing machines, most laundry products were designed so different things happened at different temperatures. This allowed starting from cold water, progressing to warm then finally a hot/boil wash. Thus stains were not set, enzymes could do their job and finally the oxygen bleach could finish things off.

 

[sudsmaster]

The solid door Neptune water heater is 1,000 watts, same as the big Miele.

The limitation in the Neptune is that the water heater is limited to 30 minutes of on time. Also, the Neptune has a significantly greater water volume in the wash portion of the cycle than more recent FL's like the big Miele. The Neptune can raise the wash water temp about 1 degree F per minute (my own observations). Also, the highest temp reached will be 130F. This means that one would have to have an initial fill of at least 100F and a wash portion of the cycle at least 30 minutes to reach 130F. Preferably longer, as reaching 130 and then losing it to the rinse doesn't do much in terms of cleaning.

On my Neptune I work around this by using the "Stain Cycle" option which can lengthen the longest 34 minute wash portion of the cycle to something like 54 minutes. Long enough to raise the wash temp to 130F and keep it here for cleaning.

Although since I got a Miele 1918 that tops out at 170F, I usually wash the whites in that at 160F. Takes nearly 2 hours, even at 220 volts, partially because that washer is connected to cold water only.

 

[tomturbomatic]

My W1918 offers these temperatures in the cottons cycle: 190, 180, 155, 140, 120, 105 & 85 for cold. In the delicate and woolens cycles the temps range: 105, 85 and tap cold.

In the W1986, cottons offers: 190, 140, 120, 105 and tap cold. Delicate and woolens temps are the same as the W1918.

With the tempering valve John found, the minimum cold temp is 80F.

In the W1918, the 180F wash cycle is 1 hour 47 minutes. The wash portion lasts 47 minutes. The 5 high water level rinses and spins consume the remaining hour. The machines temper the hot fill so that the washing begins at 130F if higher temps are selected.

I am so glad that I bought these machines. I had waited to see what the 1215 offered, but the controls were too restrictive for me. While I often go downstairs to get my kicks by seeing what they are doing, I have absolutely no qualms about starting a load and forgetting about it, knowing that the machines will balance to give great extraction and that the rinsing is all that I want with clear water in the final rinse without suds. As I used them and became familiar with things they did and found things that I could make them do, I realized what a sad joke my Duet was. Fortunately, it was a designated organ donor and parts of it live on in other machines. 99% of my laundry is done using the cotton cycle for the most thorough rinsing and water extraction. Permanent Press shirts come out of the dryer wrinkle free. Miele Immer Besser.

 

[passatdoc]

Do Whirlpool/Maytag washers engage the heater as part of Aut

Do these washers engage the heater to assure Hot or Warm temps if the hot water line temp is too low (say, someone's taking a shower at the same time)?? Or do they engage only if the Sanitize cycle is chosen?

I am pretty sure from looking at online Frigidare manuals that the heater goes on only for Sanitize. AutoTemp Hot will dilute hot water with cold to bring the temperature DOWN to set point, if need be, but I am fairly certain that the heater does not engage if incoming hot water temp is lower than AutoTemp Hot set point.

 

[nmassman44]

One has to consider that with my Miele 4800 its connected to 120 volts. Most Miele washers sold in North America for the home is 120 volts. Not 240 as in previous models.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Do Whirlpool/Maytag washers engage the heater as part of Aut

My manual says that the heater and ATC are available on all cycles, except delicate which has a default of cold anyway.

The heater is active on Steam cycles as when you select steam the washer fills with warm water and then is stepped as steam is injected. (Yes you can see and hear the steam being injected.)

 

[yogitunes]

Thanks guys....seems like not too many have a super hot option such as a boil wash....

I was just wondering for the extra expense of the heater how much hotter it would make my water than what is produced from the hot water heater....apparently not much...