We Are Pulling The Plug......Finally ATSC Box

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support AutomaticWasher.org:

Not to get too far off topic, but I'm a big fan and proponent of VOIP phone service, I use VoIP.ms, $25 lasts me 3-4months. I looked into Ooma but I don't feel they are sustainable and didn't want to pay for something that at some point might just stop working. With VoIP I can switch to any of dozens of carriers.

Back to Component inputs, even my moderate priced tv from the early 2000s had a set, they got to be pretty common.
 
Apex -TV with Converters - Antennas

We've been accessing the free digital channels for about three years now. I'd like to get a flat screen, but haven't worked out what to buy and whether I would like to run the audio through a tv-console(eventually) and forego using the cathode ray tube.

I'm not familiar with the Apex -250A, but found an Apex DT-502 at Goodwill; I wouldn't recommend it, but after I added a GE antenna(model 24775 purchased at Target, it pulls in a lot of stations(46 if you count the sub-channels) and 57 in the prior residence, south Forsyth County.

The downside of the Apex DT-502 is that it won't allow me to manually add channels. Not good, but my overall investment was $6, the Sony Trinitron tv was free(people toss out perfectly good working CRT TV's here, all the time..I pick them up and donate to a favorite charity.

Just an idea - have you looked at the remote control external /attic mounted digital antennas? I know of no recommendations,but the idea interests me, vs. moving the antenna for best reception.

This thread has been very helpful, thank you everyone.

[this post was last edited: 7/14/2013-22:47]

ovrphil++7-14-2013-22-47-32.jpg
 
Allen, if the difference in S-video vs composite is meaningful to you I can't imagine how you'd perceive the 1080 vertical lines on your screen! Start taking that money you save from not paying the Satellite guys and you can buy a HD TV in a year.

As for VOIP calling I have a Google Voice number directed at an OBI Talk end point. The little box cost ~$30 and Google Voice is free! It has been nothing short of perfect and Google offers lots of great messaging features too.
 
I don't think any of the ATSC tuners I have (converter boxes and several flat panel TV's) allow one to manually add channels. Since most if not all of them are aliased, virtual channels, you have to do a full channel scan to discover any new channels anyway. Most tuners recommend rescanning periodically anyway to pickup new or changed channel setups. Once the digital channel has been found one can usually manually remove it from the lineup, and I think most allow it to be added back later if so desired. I usually zap the home shopping and religious stations.
 
Allen, if the difference in S-video vs composite is meaningful to you I can't imagine how you'd perceive the 1080 vertical lines on your screen! Start taking that money you save from not paying the Satellite guys and you can buy a HD TV in a year.

I can't see the lines. When using the S-Video input the picture on the screen looks like DVD quality. Even local stations.

You are right about saving money! I calculate that in the first year I'll save at least $800.00.

I have seen an outside antenna with rotator for $25.00 somewhere. In Houston all of our television stations have antennas in the same general vicinity southwest of town.
I think the locals are all on two or three towers.

What is the range of digital television stations? How many miles can it travel?I know VHF was line of sight technology.
 
Range of ATSC may depend somewhat on the channel.

As I recally, channels 7 and 11 are broadcast digitally on VHF. The rest are all UHF. I may have the channels wrong, but you get the basic idea. I also seem to recall that UHF requires less transmitter power to go the same distance as a VHF signal.

Generally speaking, you'll get great reception up to 25 miles from transmitter. Over that, you might get some breakup esp if the signal is compromised by weather or intervening objects. Line of sight is not strictly necessary, but it does help.

I get very good reception from the SF towers on Mt. Sutro and Mt. San Bruno. My home is about 25 miles away from those two. There is at least one intervening building in between, but it is wood. I use a digital TV antenna on the roof, but a regular UHF/VHF antenna works as well. I've even got a small flat screen set on the patio hooked up to a set of rabbit ears, and it works fine to get most stations.

I'm sure some A/V gurus will give more precise advice.

You may not need a rotator if the local and distant transmitters are in the same general direction. Or if they are 180 degrees apart. The local may be strong enough to get good signals even if they are offset to the line between your set and the distant transmitters.

If you go on the web and google a bit, you may be able to find broadcast maps for each station, showing signal strength over the points of the compass.
 
No matter if you can or can't see the lines of SD you will see drastically more detail with HD. The place I notice it most is looking at a persons hair during the typical interview. With SD a mans temple appears to just be grey, with HD you see each hair. Its like actually being there. Like many quality improvements until you learn to see it you don't realize what you are missing. As an aside when I was stuck on dial up Internet access I intentionally avoided high speed connections so as to not "see" what I was missing ;)

Range of digital TV is generally slightly further then analog TV was. Since they have abandoned the lowest frequency channels the antennas can have more effective gain which increases range. UHF is yet more line of sight then VHF and it does suffer more attenuation from foliage and obstructed paths. The good thing with digital transmission is that as long as you have a signal that is strong enough to get solid data you get a solid picture. The motorcycle going down the street won't give you ignition noise sparkles all over your screen! On the flip-side if you don't get enough data then you get no picture at all, but generally we aren't interested in watching a snowy TV picture anyhow so perhaps this doesn't matter.

An antenna and rotator for $25 seems to be too cheap to believe unless it was a used price. As Rich said perhaps you don't need a rotator. Only the people stuck between several markets really need to move the antenna around, typically a given areas stations all originate from one place. It depends on terrain, in mountainous areas they may spread the transmitters around a bit. Here in MN they are all in one place. Whatever you get be sure it covers UHF and check the link I posted earlier to see if you have any remaining VHF stations, in that case you need an antenna with VHF capabilities if you want to access those channels.
 
I can attest to weather influencing digital reception.  Whenever the marine layer is thick and fog is obscuring Sutro tower, signals are compromised on all stations transmitting from there.   Rainy weather can create similar problems.
 
I can second weather affecting digital reception. Along with cam-driven washing machine timers, opening and closing the refrigerator door, thermostats cycling, people walking past the antenna, etc. Compared to a pop or a split second of picture noise under analog, you now end up with audio dropout and a frozen picture.

With multiple TV's, various brands of converter boxes, and indoor antennas, I've made it a habit to keep a copy of the reception chart for my area next to each set so I can 'dial in' the antenna. This saves a lot of 'futz time' if I'm watching a show downstairs and decide to move upstairs during a commercial break. Under the analog system tuning feedback was real time and a few seconds is all that it would take to adjust for a clear picture. With digital (even with the on screen signal meters), there's a processing delay and setup time can get very annoying, especially if you have to run back and forth from the couch.

Something else to consider are the so-called sub channels. Various stations looking to cash in on advertising revenue are now broadcasting additional channels from the same transmitters and equipment. These are the x.2, x.3 variants. Of course the bandwidth is fixed so you lose picture quality each time another subchannel comes online.

And what a death-blow to handheld and portable TV's. -Cory
 
Do they make ATSC portable televisions with a digital tuner?

I was at the NCE show in Las Vegas in 1994 when they introduced HDTV. Panasonic had the biggest display. They were showing two televisions side by side showing the same picture one standard def and the other HDTV. One picture showed a tennis shoe that had suede uppers. On the HDTV you could see each particle of the suede whereas on the standard def TV you could just see the color of the suede and could tell that's what it was.

I also attended an HDTV production class in Dallas when I was still doing television for the show "The Winning Walk". We learned that blue backrounds always make HDTV look better (a lot of shows have a lot of blue in the backround. And the makeup has to be carefully done because any imperfections in the skin will show up on the screen.

I'm used to the picture going out during storms. Dish Network when we had it was the worst. But I think it was the antenna aiming that was the problem. The installer just aimed the dish in the general direction of the satellite and said "Yeah, good enough for a government job" and tightened the dish down. It was so bad that if one of our dogs took a good leak outside we'd lose the picture. (just kidding of course). But when we switched over to DirecTV the installed tested the dish with a signal strength meter to make sure it was properly aimed. After that the picture would go out only during the strongest of storms.
 
Do they make ATSC portable televisions with a digital tuner?

Yes, Fry's Electronics had a combo small flat screen TV/boom box a few months ago. I was tempted but at $100 it seemed like a bit much. I expect we'll see more and smaller portable ATSC capable TV's eventually, depending on perceived demand. I don't see why a tuner couldn't be integrated into one of those portable screen equipped DVD players for not much extra cost.

As for the rotator, an alternative scheme would be to have two rooftop antennas, each one pointed optimally at the transmitter location of interest. Then one could use a simple coax splitter box to switch between them. I've even had success combining two such signals, although recently the older of two antennas seems to have lost its ability to pull in stations so the switch box has been flipped to just the newer one. They were both pointed in the same general direction, anyway.

In fact I just found one such portable DVD player with digital tuner:

http://www.amazon.com/Supersonic-Sc-257-7inch-Portable-Player/dp/B0054MOCTE
 
Reception may be a function of your location. Here in mid-MI I've had HD for 12+ years. I cannot say I've ever noticed any weather related effects. Years ago I said I lived in the golden triangle, while many had issues getting 2 or3Hd stations OTA, I got many. I can easily get all the stations from 3 markets, Flint, Detroit and Lansing. I bet if I carefully aimed and checked today I'd get upwards of 70+ channels and sub channels. I use a high power amp and a great antenna I had imported from England.

Today I rarely use my antenna. As I mentioned earlier for me it's just easier to use Directv. I have OTA tuners on all my HD boxes, but they get little use. When all the channels I watch from Detroit became available on D I really didn't need OTA. I've considered dropping D, popping 3 or 4tuner cards in my computer and using it as a DVR, and using the usnet for stuff not available OTA, but I'm not willing to put the effort in yet. One or two more price increases and I may be there.

Note for clarification, when I said put tuner cards in my computer I do not mean I Watch the content on my computer, I simply stream it from my computer to any of the TVs in the house. I play it with a WD media streamer...
 
I was looking at our content and not surprisingly most of the content is either religious or Spanish Language.

My television doesn't have an HDMI or USB input. Is there any way to connect it to a router so I could watch television shows off the internet?
 
Allen,

Several of the Internet TV streaming boxes offer component outputs for connection to legacy TV's. I know there are Roku and a Western Digital models that do. My hunch is that they use component for the widest usability to older TV's over S-Video. They likely figure if you are quality conscious then you can probably use HDMI, sign of the times I suppose.

I have an Apple TV box and its pretty spiffy. It lacks some of the features that the various Google TV products have like web browsers and ability to add apps etc. It does integrate well with other Apple products if you have them, alas it only speaks HDMI...

I'm at the point where between the Apple TV, Netflix and broadcast TV I'm not sure I will continue paying DirecTV, decision is still pending though.

Of course if you start adding the cost of the ATSC tuner along with the Internet Streaming box that starts to take a chunk out of the new HDTV again. Many TV's today have Internet connectivity.
 
I looked around tonight and it looks like the best combination is a Roku XD (which has composite out) combined with Hulu plus ($7.99 per month) This way it appears that I can still watch most of the content we watched on DirecTV for about $85.00 less per month.

If I go the Roku route, will I still need an anlog converter box?
 
No.

 

What are your network options?  All but the most expensive Roku use wireless, which may be OK for you.  Not a big fan of wireless anything if I have an option.  The Roku XS has both connections, wired and wireless, that and a few more things that may be useful in the future if you ever upgrade your TV.  I'd opt for the extra $20 and get the best.
 
I know wireless in some locations is only a state of mind.

I have some friends with a huge house and the router is on the first floor up front. Their daughter has a computer on the third floor at the rear of the house. They never have any problems with network connections.

Then I have another friend who has the router in one bedroom and another computer in the bedroom right next door to it and the signal they get is very weak and drops out frequently. They just ran a cable from the router to the PC in the next room.

Right now we have no network. We are using Clear for internet service with a download speed of 9.5 Mbps during good weather and 2.25Mbps during storms. I'd have to get a network box to talk to the Roku box then to the television. Does the Roku send out analog signals to it's composite outputs or digital?
 
I used to despise the idea of running a wireless network at home. Concerns of security and dropouts etc. But my house doesn't lend itself to running Cat 5 cables easily as half of it is a ground level slab. Also I have to have WiFi access for the tablets and the phone as well as for visitors, may as well use it for the PC's too.

So I located my DSL Modem and Wireless "G" router in the basement on a shelf all along with their own dedicated UPS for backup. I have never had any network connectivity issues at all anywhere in the house. And the 802.11G is plenty fast even for streaming HD over the AppleTV box. It is a bit slow for computer to computer file transfers compared to a wired network though of course.

The one thing that I'm pleased about with using wireless is that I don't have all the computers hardwired together. This opens the door to differing ground potentials and long wires to see induced spikes from electromagnetic pulse from lightning. As a ham with a number of antennas (lightning rods?) in the air such things worry me.

Wireless security is darned good today, and if you are really worried set up your network to only acknowledge the specific MAC addresses of your devices.
 
Whirlcool, the Roku had both composite and hdmi so your are future-proofed.  There is an enormous amount of content for the Roku. Hulu will give you most of the OTA stuff, a day or so later, but no big deal.  If you add something like Playon you get a few more features like many local networks.  Playon also offers Play Later witch acts as a DVR.  Playon is based on your computer and it streams to your Roku.  Tehr are other servers such ans Plex and XMBC which accomplish the same thing, with more work, but they are mostly free.  You can buy a lifetime sub to Playon for $39-$49 depending on how you hit the deals, or $19 for a year.  Regardless of which way you go Playon is a great addition.

 

kbOnes, I'm curious about your ground comment.  I have all my computers, 4 wired together and I see no issues.  Perhaps in an old building there might be the possibility of differing ground potentials, but my home as most modern ones are grounded properly.  Everything ties to a common ground point, even my tv tower.
 
"kbOnes, I'm curious about your ground comment."

Matt,

The issue stems from the resistance and inductance the long network cables have, not to mention the the resistance and inductance of all the ground wires in your home. A ground is not a ground if there is any appreciable distance involved if you are dealing with a fast rising impulse. You can think of it as the wires are basically the secondary of a transformer. If there is a decent nearby lightning hit there is a large electro magnetic pulse and as the field collapses it induces a current into all the wiring.

As an example a while back we had a good thunderstorm passing overhead. There was a lot of cloud-to-cloud lightening in the area. I had a 7Mhz wire antenna run across the back of my home that consisted of 66 feet of 12 ga wire. There was a coaxial cable that came down into my room which I had disconnected because of the storm. I heard some strange "snaps" which turned out to be electricity arcing across the conductors in the coax connector!! I would guess that the break down voltage was around 20,000. This voltage was induced by the local storm, but keep in mind unlike other home wiring there was nothing in this antenna to shunt the voltage and it did build up over time.

The problem I'm concerned with comes when you have multiple connection points into a system, this opens the door for dis-similar voltage potentials to allow currents to run roughshod through the electronics. Ideally all all your wiring is on the upside of a good AC power impulse supressor/UPS which has a solid ground. If you have any other wires going to the computer (phone, network, cable or audio etc) they should be passed through an impulse supressor connected to the same local point. This means all the interconnects are protected to a common ground which may have its voltage potential jump up from that of other grounds in the home if there were an impulse. I posted a photo on the other recent thread discussing lightning protection. In that picture you can see the steel of the outlet strip was vaporized but all the gear in the rack plugged into it was fine!

Note I don't wish to make everyone think that a wired network will cause problems, its just that wireless isolates the systems in the home. I have an extreme situation here because I have some large aluminum rods sticking up in the sky (my amateur radio antennas). I have never had a direct hit, so I knock on wood. But I do my system engineering quite differently as a result. I have seen a number of friends take strikes, often to near by trees, and the damage has been daunting.

My apologies from straying from the ATSC television thread. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming ;)
 
The Roku website (linked earlier) does not list the "XS" model. The only model that has wired Ethernet is the new Roku 3. And it only has an HDMI port, no composite. So I don't think it would work for Whirlcool. The next model down, the 2XD, does nearly all the 3 does except for wired Enet and some gaming features. Personally considering the TV set you have now, the BOL Roku would work for you just fine. You certainly won't be getting any HD to the TV set over a composite cable anyway.

And ALL composite signals are analog. You have to go to HDMI for digital. Yes, I know, there's a flavor of component that can do digital but my impression that the component inputs of most if not all consumer TV's are analog component.

The choice of fast internet service plus HULU is an interesting alternative to cable TV. I'd still get a converter box to get over-the air broadcasts, because HULU likely will not carry local stations/news etc. Also, I'd be a bit concerned that a lot of internet use combined with streaming video might overload the internet connection, with deterioration in quality/speed for one or both.

I'm currently on BOL ATT DSL for internet. It's a bit pokey, and I usually have to halt videos like on Utube or Vimeo to let the buffer fill up as much as possible before hitting play. That combined with the too-frequent "page not found" error messages that appear to be endemic with ATT/SBC's internet service. Usually when a page load hangs I have to stop it and reload (like with most Amazon pages). Or hit retry when an error screen pops up. Doesn't happen all the time but it happens enough to be annoying.

I'll have to get out the calculator to see if it would actually be cheaper to ditch the landline, upgrade to cable internet, get OOMA or similar for wired phone. And of course there's the intangible but priceless benefit of having an actual high speed internet connection (just about anything is higher speed than basic DSL). The OOMA phone service would cost about $7/mo for federal and local taxes, plus the cost of the box itself, so it's not 100% free.

I seem to remember when service providers were offering bundles of internet service and cellular service for a discount. Haven't seen that for a while. I wonder why.
 
No it's the Roku XD I am interested in. It's no longer made, but is available used. Sorry I got the model number wrong.

And ALL composite signals are analog. You have to go to HDMI for digital. Yes, I know, there's a flavor of component that can do digital but my impression that the component inputs of most if not all consumer TV's are analog component.

I don't quite understand this sentence. If all composite signals are analog then the signals coming out of the Roku box using the composite outputs to the composite inputs on my Sony TV would be analog, correct? Then I wouldn't need a converter except for the local stations?

So Roku & Hulu Plus look to be the best solution for us.

How does the OOMA phone work for you? Clear had a phone package when I first got them a few years ago and it was so terrible it was almost useless. Lots on noise on the line, tons of dropped calls, squealing on the phone line, etc.
 
Roku XS

12% of the 3,047 reviews were negative to 1..many go back to 2 years ago. I wonder if that's just normal to have about 10% problems with a product that seems to be doing so well? This interests me, thanks for mentioning. A buddy of mine loves his Roku..but it's not an XS.

Micro SD is a memory card, as you would use in a camera, mp3 player, etc....purchase at Walmart, NewEgg, Amazon, anywhere.
 
This thread has made me rethink my satellite service. I have been with DirecTV for 15+ years and have no complaints, I have had no problems with them and their customer service has been great, but I no longer watch very much TV. I have a mid-level package with HD upgrade (no movie or sports channels). It was costing me $97/mo and I decided today that I'm not watching enough TV to justify that monthly cost. I generally sit in the living room and read every evening. When I do turn on the TV I mainly watch DVDs and BluRays. I will save over $1150/yr by cancelling my service.

 

If I do want to watch TV again I have a Sony media streamer box, I can sign up for HULU Plus and Netflix and route them through my TV.

 

I do recommend DirecTV to anyone looking to get satellite, they've been pretty good to me over the past decade and a half.
 
Welcome to the club.

I have never been unhappy with the DirecTV service. Crystal clear reception and great sound quality. The expanded basic is now $93.00 per month. It seems that they have quarterly or sometimes even monthly "creep" on the prices.

So it's time for something new. One of the things that I find amazing is in reading some television forums is the amount of people out there trying to "cut the cable" and reduce their costs. That was shocking.

Another thing is that when I called DirecTV to disconnect my service after 12 years they didn't offer to adjust my rate or offer a special they just said "Ok, we'll disconnect you on Aug 13, the last day of the current billing period. Goodbye."
 

Similar threads

L
KDTM604KPS
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
lakewebsterkid
L
Ultramatic
Appliances: The Future is Battery Powered
2 3
Replies
83
Views
2K
tolivac
T
W
OTA Television Reception Issues
Replies
18
Views
188
gusherb
G
T
Breaking up of GE
Replies
14
Views
333
neptunebob
neptunebob
aeoliandave
A new boat for Old Davy
Replies
13
Views
207
firedome
firedome

Latest posts

Back
Top