What can you tell me about this Westinghouse Fridge?

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I couldn't forget you...

Will, I wrote that I have never crossed paths with anyone I have ever MET here. I met you some years prior to even finding out about AW.org. Knowing me as well as you do, you should have caught that phrasing. Is the schoolteacher slipping?

You need to improve your concentration :) In order to fix that, I recommend you get some more Maytag in your life, (And Westinghouse, Frigidaire...)
Dave
 
Memories

My grandmother had that Westie, remember "Colder Cold", you pulled the handle and it went right, and the butter keeper came with a plastic dish that fit in it. the egg holder was on the door.
 
Danke, WHITEKINGD...we've looked at that site when we were trying to find a Chambers stove, will check out their fridge parts. Need to find out if this one appliance parts supplier in Austin is still in business...there've been so many changes here lately, and so many of the older supply houses have shut down, don't really know who is open anymore. Thanks again.
 
The site went down when I was trying to post... here I go ag

Dave, I knew what you meant. I just had to have a little fun with you.

There is an update on the fridge, but I'll give it this time. Dave is a little preoccupied right now with something he got that he's been trying to get for years... I won't ruin the surprise, but I'll give you a hint: it's flat.

The refrigerator is not working. The owners plugged it in, the light came on, but it never got cold. They adjusted the temperature, the light came on, and you guessed it, it never got cold. I'm sure any troubleshooting suggestions and parts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks fellas.

Will
 
Logistics.

I'm going to try to get the Fridge Saturday morning. I'll get it home and start cleaning it up. I'll also look at the obvious things (is the power cord crunchy?). Anyone know how to bypass the thermostat in case that's the problem? If I can bypass the thermostat I can test to see if motor tries to start at all. If it still fails, how do I go about testing the start switch, and would a failed start switch cause the motor not try to run?

If it is out of refrigerant (insert MUCH profanity here) what do I do? I don't want to run R-12 because it is so hideously expensive and getting worse. Can the fridge use R-22 or something? Can a dye be put in so a leak can be found? Is it feasible to rebuild the compressor (shudder)?

As you can tell, I have never messed with vintage refrigeration before and don't want to proceed without advice,
Dave
 
Dave:

Conversions from R-12 to R-134a or another refrigerant are a bit tricky. There are three primary problems.

One, the system has to be professionally purged and clean; old refrigerant, oil, corrosion, or trash will cause problems. All components must be in good shape.

Second, the correct lubricating oil must be used; R-134a takes a different one than R-12.

Third, pressures for R-134a are very different than for R-12; just charging to specs won't work well, because the specs were written for R-12, decades before R-134a was in use. Generally, lower pressure - around 80% of R-12 spec is a good place to begin - is called for, not higher.

Your best bet would be to get with someone who knows about these conversions, because there is a lot that can go wrong if someone doesn't know what they're doing. Whatever you do, don't succumb to the temptation to buy some over-the-counter kit online or in a hardware store. They nearly always cause complete trashing of the system, ruining it forever unless very expensive work is done. Are you anywhere near a vo-tech school? Maybe their instructors could help, making it a class project or something - I know money doesn't grow on trees.
 
Fridge repair

I assume that fridge has a switch/thermostat and also a separate relay. Does the compressor run at all. It would be nearly silent, but will make some noise. If it doesn't then you have a problem with the switch or the relay. If it runs but doesn't cool you need a charge or a new compressor.

The cabinet light working tells you pretty much nothing except the cord is intact.

It was meant to use R12 so use that. Fridges don't use that much. Whatever environmental harm you're doing by using it is off-set by not filling the landfill with your fridge and going to buy some new piece of crap.
 
R12

The fridge is certainly not getting scrapped. It's just that the cost of R12 is prohibitive. When I needed a recharge in my Volvo, it was cheaper to convert from R12 to R134a than to recharge with R12. My concern with the fridge is that if it needs a recharge, it will need to be recharged more than once. 1 time with dye to find the leak(s) and a second time to fill it after the leaks have been repaired.

We'll see,
Dave
 
Fridges use less than 2 lbs or refrigerant. You can buy R12 on ebay all day long for 20-30 a pound. If it leaks more than twice scrap it.
 
Yeah, considering the condition it's in, I don't know that it's worth investing a lot into it. I thought it was at least still working properly.
 
Oops

Cars leak because the parts vibrate and move more and there are hoses involved. Fridges shouldn't leak. You wouldn't have to fully charge it to put a dye in and find the leak. I bet it just doesn't run.

The advice to find a tech school is great.
 
The last thing I would do is let loose some mystery fluid in my vintage appliance. None of these substitutes are designed for something old. If you kill your car a/c you get a rebuilt compressor. If you kill your Westinghouse, you're done.

Kind of like buying oil for your Maytag at AutoZone
 
Sooner or later, things change.

What on earth will we do when we can no longer get Maytag oil?

I don't think an entire appliance should be thrown out because of a failed part. Compressors can be rebuilt, motors can be re-wound, etc. The folks at the Antique Fan Collectors' Association know how to go to extremes to keep vintage fans going. (Vintage fans are another passion of mine) They have a few machinists in their group who MAKE parts if none can be found. They also keep drawings of their manufactured parts so they can make them again and again. One member/machinist sells new gears for GE sidewinder oscillator fans that have been unavailable since WWI. Where there's a will, there's a way, just so long as someone's able to pay for it.

Too bad GE and Maytag couldn't have been paired together. Imagine, the reliability of Maytag and the lint filtering capability of the Filter Flo!
Dave
 
I am sure there are ways around most any problem. The reality is that few value these items enough to go that far to restore them. Honestly, I love old appliances, but how much cash do you dump down a hole if you can just find a better example elsewhere? You go to heroic levels to save the really rare pieces or the things that you've got sentimental attachment to. Old fridges are still lurking in many old basements.

Your compressor wasn't meant to be serviced. They're hermetically sealed. When it dies you replace it or replace the whole fridge. I poke to Mike Arnold about refrigerators. He explained that he didn't care much for the 1950's and later models because of all the plastic that was being used. All those parts are very model and manufacturer specific. I stick with mostly GE monitor tops because they fascinate me, look cool, and are so darn basic.
 
I think Dave can fix it...

He's a pretty determined individual. When he sets him mind on something, has the time/money to work on it AND actually does (and I'll make sure of that), he does amazing work. You should see some of the items he's restored. They come to him in the condition of being in grandma's attic/basement/garage/shed/barn/backyard/junk pile for 20-40 years and they come out looking showroom new... The man can work miracles when he wants to.
 
Monitor tops, etc.

I would LOVE a single door monitor top, 1934 or so. I want the biggest single door model I can find with a light and the coils on top wrapped in a shroud, not exposed. Sadly, I just haven't got the space for one right now, nor have I got the money to buy one. If one showed up on my doorstep for free, I might be forced to rearrange some things and make room, however.

As for a stove, I want a Chambers model B with the high back and sconce lights in that wonderful jadite/light green I have seen from time to time.

I also want a Kitchenaid KD12 or similar looking dishwasher in any color.

For the past few years, my funds have been limited and my restorations have been few and far between. I enjoy tinkering and the work, I just haven't got much for supplies right now. I'm trying to work on this 51 Westy fridge with what I can get my hands on, or at least diagnose the problem.

I performed a fridgectomy today and retrieved the 51 Westy from my friends basement. This thing is 4'8" tall, but I think it's made of lead! This was the single heaviest appliance I have ever moved! Getting it up the stairs was pure hell, with the tight corner with freshly painted walls as the icing on top. Right now it's in the garage and I will not do anything with it until Monday just in case I can get it to turn on so I don't ruin the compressor.

I'll have more info as I can get it,
Dave
 
Dave:

Best wishes as you tinker; I'm hoping that you'll find the problem is simple.

The major deal I see with that machine is that you've got plastic to replace. It won't be easy to find, but hopefully it's out there.

Everything else is fixable - it's just the old time/money/effort thing.

I have a feeling this is going to be a nice box when it's had your touch.
 
Oh, Dave....

....Would you do all us I Love Lucy fans a favour and post the model number of this machine? It's extreme trivia, I know, but believe it or not, there are enquiring minds who'd like to know it.
 
Absolutely.

Later today after I get back home I'll go looking for the model#. Had I been thinking, it would have been posted already. I too love "I Love Lucy" just not with quite the enthusiasm as some other people.

Nobody's perfect,
Dave

How's your 240? Mine needs an alternator :(
 
Dave:

My 245 is giving problems right now - the trans seal again. ARRGH. Hope your alternator problem gets sorted out soon.

Your fridge will be of great interest to I Love Lucy fans, not just because it's the same one seen on the show. The selection of that particular model says something that a lot of people don't know about.

When the show was being planned, Lucille Ball was very concerned about realism. As a bandleader with a small nightclub, Ricky Ricardo was essentially a small business owner. That meant the Ricardos were doing okay financially, but not rolling in dough. Lucy was very tough with the set and costume people about not getting too fancy, because the Ricardos would only be able to afford so much. Your model fridge, which was a nice new box at the time but not TOL, reflects that choice.

Obviously, Lucy forgot all this by the time she made the later Lucy shows in the '60s and '70s. How Lucys Carmichael and Carter could afford such swanky digs and so many Chanel suits on what Mr. Mooney was willing to pay went unexplained.
 
Model #

The tag inside the fridge says it's a model #DC-7.
On the back of the fridge, there is a metal "chimney" which contains copper tubing which serves as the condenser. There is another tag on the back of this, but I haven't read the "style" number on it. It does say it uses R12 (!#%$%^%$$#) and even says how much, so with a little cleaning I'll hopefully be able to read it.

The bad news is that the main power cord enters the fridge cabinet from the "chimney" and runs inside at a place just below the freezer section. It comes out again and then runs down the inside of the chimney down to the compressor. The chimney was once filled with insulation, but it had largely disintegrated and fallen to the bottom. The resulting high-heat environment cooked the wiring that was inside the chimney.

My neighbor came over and we opened up the access panel on the back of the fridge behind the freezer and looked at the wiring there. All the wiring inside the fridge is just fine. The only wiring I can't see is the wireing that goes from the power distribution block behind the freezer to the thermostat and the wiring between the power block, the switch, and the light. I do know that he light was working.

We made a wiring diagram so I can rewire the fridge (Yes, I plan on putting on a 3-wire grounded power cord and plug.)
With the wiring diagram, I can bypass the thermostat and hard-wire the compressor and hopefully test the motor. If it actually starts to cool, I will be a very very happy historic preservationist. If it does not run or cool, I will not be a happy historic preservationist. If it runs, I will unplug it as soon as I detect cold or "unhappy refrigerator noises."

The only lingering question is this: Why are there 3 wires from the compressor and thermostat but only 2 wires in the power cord? What I think we figured out is that there is some sort of a heater at the thermostat (located next to the butter compartment) to keep things from freezing and it gets electricity all the time from the compressor. The thermostat controls the power to run the compressor, but there is a line running more or less though the compressor to provide power for the heater.

Clear as mud?
Dave

Sandy, what transmission do you have? The AW70 auto, the M46 manual 4spd + OD, or the M47 manual 5 spd? Also, FCP Groton is another great source for parts.
 
Dave:

It's the mighty AW-70 automatic. The trans is fine, it's just the tailshaft seal that's giving problems. It has been replaced, but somehow it must not have been seated correctly by the mechanic who did the job. By Tuesday or Wednesday of this coming week, he will have gotten a letter that will singe the hair off his butt; this isn't his first goof with my car, but it is going to be his last.

Sounds like you're making good progress with the Westy. Thanks VERY much for the model no. info!
 
Technically Sandy....

Ricky did not own Tropicana...it was owned by 2 different owners, the last being Mr. Littlefield (played by Lucy's beloved Gale Gordon)...Ricky did not buy the Tropicana until after they group returned from Europe...It was then rechristened the Club Babalu.....Also it was the writers Jess Openheimer, Madyln Pugh-Davis, and Bob Carrol Jr., that insisted the Ricardo's be working class people so the audiencee could relate to their problems. Also when the show first started they had a Westinghouse range, fridge, toaster, Food Crafter Mixer and a Mirro electric percolator. After Little Ricky was born and they switched apartments with the Bensons down stairs (there was an episode about it where Ricy says " I won' swish apartments!") they had a Frost Free Westinghouse fridge with the electric door opener, a Roper Gas Range, a Sunbeam Mimaster, SunbeamT9 toaster, and the same Mirro Percolator.....PAT
 
Appliguy:

I'll take your point about the ownership of the Tropicana, and about Oppenheimer/Pugh. I have read an interview with Elois Jenssen where she told of Lucy's concern over costuming; when Jenssen was hired, she was told very clearly by Lucy that this was not going to be a big glamour job with fantastic new ensembles every week. Rather, the job was to come up with "housewifely" clothes that looked real but still flattered Lucy. Jenssen was the one who made the discovery that Lucy looked sensational in polka dots, I understand.
 
Sandy, you are of course right about Lucy picking Lucy Ricar

and of course that goes back to the premise that the writers and Lucy and Desi came up with......the Ricardo's were to be average....so that the general public could relate to them.I just meant that a lot of people have given Lucy credit for all the pioneering stuff that went on on her show over the years when in reality it was Desi and all the behind the scenes folks that came up with the innovative stuff like, the three camera technique they used to film the show, filming the show live in front of an audience on film, and so on....these were the things that Lucy got credit for and even at the time I love Lucy was being done she tried so hard to make sure Desi and everyone else got the credit they deserved but their contributions (Desi's ecspecially) were usually attributed to Lucy much to her frustration when she was alive....it was not until after her and Desi divorced that she became the Stalin of the soundstage on her other 2 shows, the Lucy Show, and Here's Lucy......but that is another story.....hey Sandy sometime soon I would love to tlak to you by phone...it sounds to me that we have a lot of the same interests and I always love to talk with someone who has the same interests as I do....if you are interested lt me know and I'll give you my phone # or you can e-mail me yours however you would like to do it....I hope to hear from you.....PAT COFFEY
 
Pat:

Yes, I'd love to get together by phone. Let me email you the number privately, and we can talk next weekend. I've got magazine deadlines all this work week.

I agree with you 100% about that "Stalin of the Soundstage" line; Lucy became a very stern taskmaster later on. Sadly, her genius deserted her because of losing the support Desi had given her; she was working so hard trying to do everything herself that her performances took a hit. She began reading her lines off cue cards to save memorisation time and effort; you can see her doing it if you know what to look for. The incredible acting skills she displayed in I Love Lucy - so natural and believable - became just another example of sitcom formula acting.

To me, the great thing about I Love Lucy was that you believed Lucy - hook, line and sinker, fur, fins and feathers. Some of the Lucy Show episodes come close, but overall, the quality of Ball's first show is not there in the later ones. It's too bad - at her best, Lucille Ball was not only Chaplin's equal, she bettered him on many occasions. As enjoyable as Chaplin's Little Tramp was to watch, you don't see yourself in his shoes. You do when you watch Lucy.
 

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