ovrphil
Well-known member
Oldsmobile - a name that didn't have a good ring to it anymore, I guess. Long and wide. Ha!
What do you miss most about an old car...
- Thread starter norgeway
- Start date
Help Support :
Here's the video, Emilio. The Buick Roadmaster vs. the Chrysler New Yorker starts at about 6:15 -- but stay tuned to see what happens to the Lincoln and Caddy vs. the Imperial!
thor
Well-known member
Comparison film
Supersuds, I loved the film! It's a keeper for me, rest assured! It's amazing how the Chryslers had much better handling than their "counterparts".
NYCWriter, I travel very often to the US, and the Chrysler 300 surely is one of my favorite rentals too! Too bad you can't speed in the US, that car sure is fast, LOL!
The best and longest experience I had with Chrysler cars was in 1967. My whole family (father and mother, 6 siblings plus the nanny of my youngest baby brother) made a 15 day car trip from Washington DC to New Orleans. My father rented two cars from Avis: a 1967 Dodge Monaco and a 1967 Plymouth Fury III (both cars had less than 1000 miles when we picked them up, they were really new!). I really loved the Monaco, it had the crazyest tail lights you could imagine, the suspension was incredible confortable, but the Fury didn't stay too far behind. The Monaco was air conditioned, the Fury wasn't (my father oversaw that detail). The air conditioner of the Monaco was excellent. You could ride all day long, you wouldn't even get tired.
Emilio
Supersuds, I loved the film! It's a keeper for me, rest assured! It's amazing how the Chryslers had much better handling than their "counterparts".
NYCWriter, I travel very often to the US, and the Chrysler 300 surely is one of my favorite rentals too! Too bad you can't speed in the US, that car sure is fast, LOL!
The best and longest experience I had with Chrysler cars was in 1967. My whole family (father and mother, 6 siblings plus the nanny of my youngest baby brother) made a 15 day car trip from Washington DC to New Orleans. My father rented two cars from Avis: a 1967 Dodge Monaco and a 1967 Plymouth Fury III (both cars had less than 1000 miles when we picked them up, they were really new!). I really loved the Monaco, it had the crazyest tail lights you could imagine, the suspension was incredible confortable, but the Fury didn't stay too far behind. The Monaco was air conditioned, the Fury wasn't (my father oversaw that detail). The air conditioner of the Monaco was excellent. You could ride all day long, you wouldn't even get tired.
Emilio
Here is the 1957 Chryslers vs Buick Olds and Cadillac
At the Chrysler Proving grounds...watch the difference in braking and cornering!!
At the Chrysler Proving grounds...watch the difference in braking and cornering!!
thor
Well-known member
Amazing!
Moparwash, thank you very much for this video! I will surely keep this one too. It's incredible how different cars were in those days, depending on their manufacturer. I knew the performance of Chrysler products in the late 50's and 60's was very high, but I had not imagined how much better than GM cars! The same goes with handling, the Chryslers (at least in this video!) seem to handle so much better than GM products!
Nowadays I don't think there's so much difference in the performance and handling between equivalent cars of different brands. The difference may lie in their quality, or their overall reliability, but not in their performance. Performancewise, I don't think a Honda Accord is any different than, say, a Toyota Camry.
Thanks again for the video,
Emilio
Moparwash, thank you very much for this video! I will surely keep this one too. It's incredible how different cars were in those days, depending on their manufacturer. I knew the performance of Chrysler products in the late 50's and 60's was very high, but I had not imagined how much better than GM cars! The same goes with handling, the Chryslers (at least in this video!) seem to handle so much better than GM products!
Nowadays I don't think there's so much difference in the performance and handling between equivalent cars of different brands. The difference may lie in their quality, or their overall reliability, but not in their performance. Performancewise, I don't think a Honda Accord is any different than, say, a Toyota Camry.
Thanks again for the video,
Emilio
Chrysler certainly had a lot of quality control problems when they rushed out the 1957 redesign, but they certainly out-performed the competitors full-size cars.
Ken D.
Ken D.
Tailights, tailights, more tailights and MORE TAILIGHTS!!!!!!
Vertical, Horizontal, one, two and multi-bulb set-ups in each lens to make four, six, eight or....--????
The paterns they made if one or more burnt out & would keep flashing when you made a turn--not be on steady!
And some cars ingeniously had parking lights or night-time running lights there too--that I more and more never even noticed there, until more recent times...!
-- Dave
Vertical, Horizontal, one, two and multi-bulb set-ups in each lens to make four, six, eight or....--????
The paterns they made if one or more burnt out & would keep flashing when you made a turn--not be on steady!
And some cars ingeniously had parking lights or night-time running lights there too--that I more and more never even noticed there, until more recent times...!
-- Dave
Did someone mention taillights?
They don't have to be complex to be nice, even the most simple of round lights can make a real impression . . .
They don't have to be complex to be nice, even the most simple of round lights can make a real impression . . .
Though sometimes a more complex shape can be pleasing as well . . .
davetranter
Well-known member
U.K. dipswitches, etc.
Many older U.K. vehicles had floor dipswitches/dimmers. I was under the impression that it was just for wiring convenience, insofar as it kept most of the high current, heavy gauge wiring out of the dash, and a 'high-current' switch was likely to be 'clunky' for hand operation.
Light flashing was seldom 'at the car in front', but to notify overtaking vehicles (especially trucks/trailers) that they were now clear to pull in front. This courtesy became increasingly necessary on our grossly overcrowded roads. I remember my father reaching over to switch the lights on and off on the dashboard switch during long distance drives (when I was a lad), having left the floor mounted dipswitch on 'hi' (or 'main beam' over here).
Perhaps my favourite vehicle (that I owned) was my 1960 Land Rover LWB Station Wagon. Nothing on the column at all. Ignition, lights and indicators were all on the dashboard.... And an external Sun Visor to keep the Sun off the top of the windscreen (it also worked quite well at keeping frost off in Winter)....Those were the days....
All best
Dave T
P.S. the good old Land Rover also boasted all-round drum brakes, all-round leaf springs, '4 on the floor', plus a hi-lo transfer case. It also had a 'non-factory' 203 inch Perkins diesel and a Fairey overdrive. It was one helluva fun motor... ;-)
P.P.S. What do I miss??? SERVICEABILITY!!!!!!!! Why, oh why, can NOTHING be 'owner-repaired' any more????
Many older U.K. vehicles had floor dipswitches/dimmers. I was under the impression that it was just for wiring convenience, insofar as it kept most of the high current, heavy gauge wiring out of the dash, and a 'high-current' switch was likely to be 'clunky' for hand operation.
Light flashing was seldom 'at the car in front', but to notify overtaking vehicles (especially trucks/trailers) that they were now clear to pull in front. This courtesy became increasingly necessary on our grossly overcrowded roads. I remember my father reaching over to switch the lights on and off on the dashboard switch during long distance drives (when I was a lad), having left the floor mounted dipswitch on 'hi' (or 'main beam' over here).
Perhaps my favourite vehicle (that I owned) was my 1960 Land Rover LWB Station Wagon. Nothing on the column at all. Ignition, lights and indicators were all on the dashboard.... And an external Sun Visor to keep the Sun off the top of the windscreen (it also worked quite well at keeping frost off in Winter)....Those were the days....
All best
Dave T
P.S. the good old Land Rover also boasted all-round drum brakes, all-round leaf springs, '4 on the floor', plus a hi-lo transfer case. It also had a 'non-factory' 203 inch Perkins diesel and a Fairey overdrive. It was one helluva fun motor... ;-)
P.P.S. What do I miss??? SERVICEABILITY!!!!!!!! Why, oh why, can NOTHING be 'owner-repaired' any more????
ovrphil
Well-known member
a friend of mine had a comment about serviceability. She believes a car could be made with a lot less parts, just modules and replace the modules. Serviceability would come back to the owner...buy the modular part that is easy to install and return to the road rat race(at least for many of us). I only wish it was that simple....who hasn't thought of modularity?
Come to think of it, didn't we pass up some Tesla ideas, too?
Come to think of it, didn't we pass up some Tesla ideas, too?
MoparWash,
Bro and I were just laughing about the test not including the Lincoln. Dear ole Dad bought a new 57 Lincoln to move us on up (or down to FL). I can still remember it being towed out of the garage, when it wouldn't start. The best was when Dad tried to hack saw the parking brake pedal off when he couldn't get it to release! Plus the damn car killed my turtle!
Bro and I were just laughing about the test not including the Lincoln. Dear ole Dad bought a new 57 Lincoln to move us on up (or down to FL). I can still remember it being towed out of the garage, when it wouldn't start. The best was when Dad tried to hack saw the parking brake pedal off when he couldn't get it to release! Plus the damn car killed my turtle!
1957 Lincoln
Someone was selling a Premiere 4 door hardtop two years ago, complete but not running. They wanted $1,957.00 for it. It was so tempting to me. I wonder what on earth was wrong with those cars, that so much needed to be done past regular upkeep.
Someone was selling a Premiere 4 door hardtop two years ago, complete but not running. They wanted $1,957.00 for it. It was so tempting to me. I wonder what on earth was wrong with those cars, that so much needed to be done past regular upkeep.
One thing I've noticed about my two trucks. One is a 2011 Ford F150 and the other is a 1969 Ford F100. When it starts getting warmer around here, but not to the point of having the a/c on, I'll roll down the windows. In the 69 truck, I enjoy driving with the windows down. Not overly noisy, and not blowing everything inside all over the place. However the 2011 is just the opposite. It seems when I roll down the windows, it is too noisy for me to hear and it seems like I just entered into a wind tunnel.
Oh yes, the benefits of not being aerodynamic. Not only can you enjoy riding with the windows down, but when it's snowing you often don't need the wipers because the snow blows right around the windshield. On a new car the snowflakes just seem to splat right in front of your face.
Ken D.
Ken D.
cornutt
Well-known member
An old car we owned that sticks out in my mind was my dad's '67 Riveria. He ordered it pretty well loaded, and it was the envy of the neighborhood when it arrived. One detail was that on the dash, the speedometer and some other gauges were aircraft-style rotating-cylinder displays. The cruise control was like a smaller version of the speedometer, with a knob to adjust the setting. You tuned it to the speed you wanted and it held that speed.
Sadly, the design was out ahead of the engineering. A lot of the accessories were vacuum-powered (GM seemed to be obsessed with using vacuum for everything back then) and the operation suffered from leaks and normal variations in engine vacuum. We quickly gave up on the power door locks because it was impossible to keep the vacuum hoses that ran through the door hinge from cracking. The car had hidden headlights, and the doors would sometimes refuse to open. When this happened, you had to stop the car, open the hood, and pull a lever to manually open the doors. The cruise control would spontaneously disengage when going up a hill due to loss of vacuum. (Where we lived, the cruise control wasn't all that useful anyway... once you got a few miles out of town, everything was two-lane roads.) Sometimes, when the air conditioner was on, the vacuum-operated air outlet dampers would fail to shift and it would blow all the cold air out of the heater outlet at the floor. And needless to say, all of this seriously perturbed the timing vacuum advance at times, causing loss of power and overheating.
The power windows had problematic regulators and sometimes a window would get stuck in transit. Like many GM cars of the period, it had wipers that swept in mirror-image fashion, and occasionally a drive cable would slip a bit and then the wipers would clash and the motor fuse blew. I remember this happening once when m mom was driving in a downpour. The power antenna also got tended to get stuck, and unfortunately it was wired such that it retracted every time the ignition was shut off, so just leaving it up was not an option. Sometimes the radio was unusable because the antenna wouldn't go up.
What did the car in, though, was problems with the distributor drive. This necessitated an engine teardown and rebuild to replace the camshaft, for which the car was in the shop nearly a month. After that, my dad sold it. It was only two years old at that point.
Sadly, the design was out ahead of the engineering. A lot of the accessories were vacuum-powered (GM seemed to be obsessed with using vacuum for everything back then) and the operation suffered from leaks and normal variations in engine vacuum. We quickly gave up on the power door locks because it was impossible to keep the vacuum hoses that ran through the door hinge from cracking. The car had hidden headlights, and the doors would sometimes refuse to open. When this happened, you had to stop the car, open the hood, and pull a lever to manually open the doors. The cruise control would spontaneously disengage when going up a hill due to loss of vacuum. (Where we lived, the cruise control wasn't all that useful anyway... once you got a few miles out of town, everything was two-lane roads.) Sometimes, when the air conditioner was on, the vacuum-operated air outlet dampers would fail to shift and it would blow all the cold air out of the heater outlet at the floor. And needless to say, all of this seriously perturbed the timing vacuum advance at times, causing loss of power and overheating.
The power windows had problematic regulators and sometimes a window would get stuck in transit. Like many GM cars of the period, it had wipers that swept in mirror-image fashion, and occasionally a drive cable would slip a bit and then the wipers would clash and the motor fuse blew. I remember this happening once when m mom was driving in a downpour. The power antenna also got tended to get stuck, and unfortunately it was wired such that it retracted every time the ignition was shut off, so just leaving it up was not an option. Sometimes the radio was unusable because the antenna wouldn't go up.
What did the car in, though, was problems with the distributor drive. This necessitated an engine teardown and rebuild to replace the camshaft, for which the car was in the shop nearly a month. After that, my dad sold it. It was only two years old at that point.
I don't miss much, because I still have, and drive:
1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 dr sedan, with 3 on the tree and a 218 flathead six
1964 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 hardtop with Torqueflight 904 and 225 slant six
1967 ChevyVan108 (panel) with three on tree, 283 V8 in doghouse, as Scoobydoo turq paint job
They all have vent windows (the 1950 Plymouth even has vent windows for the rear doors and a pop-up cowl vent in front), steel wheels, drum brakes with rebuildable cylinders and shoes, old fashioned sealed beam headlights, user-replaceable or serviceable electrical parts, etc... The '50 has minimal plastic content (mainly just emblems or some control knobs).
I also have a couple of newer rides for boring stuff like commuting. They have the advantage of better mileage, A/C, and better crash protection. It is what it is.
1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4 dr sedan, with 3 on the tree and a 218 flathead six
1964 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 hardtop with Torqueflight 904 and 225 slant six
1967 ChevyVan108 (panel) with three on tree, 283 V8 in doghouse, as Scoobydoo turq paint job
They all have vent windows (the 1950 Plymouth even has vent windows for the rear doors and a pop-up cowl vent in front), steel wheels, drum brakes with rebuildable cylinders and shoes, old fashioned sealed beam headlights, user-replaceable or serviceable electrical parts, etc... The '50 has minimal plastic content (mainly just emblems or some control knobs).
I also have a couple of newer rides for boring stuff like commuting. They have the advantage of better mileage, A/C, and better crash protection. It is what it is.
philr
Well-known member
David,
Are you sure all this happened to the same car? The vacuum-operated headlights were introduced on Rivieras in 1968. The power antennas, were not automatic either (not until 1974 I think), you had to lower them with a switch in the dashboard but turning off the radio or the ignition has no effect on them, it stays up until you press on the switch to lower it.
The various automatic a/c systems on pre-1971 Buicks were a nightmare for owners and for dealers who had to fix them (the 1966-67 systems were the worst) but the more popular a/c system with manual controls was fine and not prone to have vacuum leaks. I did have to replace the vacuum line to the water valve under the hood of my car but that's about it. And the manual a/c still blows cold and all the vacuum-operated actuators for the registers and recirculation door still work well.
The hidden headlights on the 1965-67 Rivieras were electrically operated and in 1967, if the system failed, you could turn them down just by loosing two screws with the jack handle. All was well explained in the owner's manual. The 1965-66 system was more tricky to make work if a motor or relay failed but the 1968-69 vacuum-operated system was the one that really caused problems!
The rear power windows do fail to go down sometimes on these cars, rarely the front ones unless there's a bad switch or bad wiring. I think the issue with the rear ones is caused by how the motors are mounted to the regulators.
There are no drive cables for the wipers, the transmission linkages and pivots are quite sturdy, much better than anything I had on newer vehicles. If the wipers stuck on your father's car, they were likely out of adjustment or the passenger side wiper arm was installed incorrectly and resting above the driver-side one. The concealed wipers used in 1968 and newer GM cars had a bit more problems.
The 430 engines were a weak point of these cars (as well as most Buick engines with a distributor at the front). They had plenty of power but had some issues with their oiling system and what happened to your father also happened to me! The earlier "Nailhead" engines had a strange design but they were much more durable.
My car is loaded with most options and the vacuum power locks did need to be repaired twice in the 14 years I owned the car but the vacuum lines are now almost 50 years old (and I repaired them with used hoses that are just as old!). The cruise control still works on this car and on my 1965 Wildcat too (both use the same system). I've driven it 35,000 miles in those 14 years. Not much lately because of fuel prices!
At some point, this Riviera was my only running car for a few months in 2001 so it was my daily driver. That's when the head gasket went bad on my 1984 Corolla and I didn't want to fix it! A friend of mine badly needed a second car when his wife got a job out of town so I gave him the Corolla that had been sitting unused for over a year and he sold it back to me a few years later in running condition and with almost twice the mileage it had when I gave it to him! At that point, I had my 1975 Electra as a daily driver and the 1967 Riviera, a 1965 Wildcat and a '74 LeSabre that replaced the Electra during winter as a daily driver so I just gave the Corolla to my uncle who had a '91 Plymouth that was in much worse condition than the '84 Corolla was.<span style="font-size: 14px;"> I couldn't afford driving cars like these daily now, I think if the same situation happened today, I would have kept the Corolla just to save some gas!</span>
[this post was last edited: 3/30/2014-17:17]
Are you sure all this happened to the same car? The vacuum-operated headlights were introduced on Rivieras in 1968. The power antennas, were not automatic either (not until 1974 I think), you had to lower them with a switch in the dashboard but turning off the radio or the ignition has no effect on them, it stays up until you press on the switch to lower it.
The various automatic a/c systems on pre-1971 Buicks were a nightmare for owners and for dealers who had to fix them (the 1966-67 systems were the worst) but the more popular a/c system with manual controls was fine and not prone to have vacuum leaks. I did have to replace the vacuum line to the water valve under the hood of my car but that's about it. And the manual a/c still blows cold and all the vacuum-operated actuators for the registers and recirculation door still work well.
The hidden headlights on the 1965-67 Rivieras were electrically operated and in 1967, if the system failed, you could turn them down just by loosing two screws with the jack handle. All was well explained in the owner's manual. The 1965-66 system was more tricky to make work if a motor or relay failed but the 1968-69 vacuum-operated system was the one that really caused problems!
The rear power windows do fail to go down sometimes on these cars, rarely the front ones unless there's a bad switch or bad wiring. I think the issue with the rear ones is caused by how the motors are mounted to the regulators.
There are no drive cables for the wipers, the transmission linkages and pivots are quite sturdy, much better than anything I had on newer vehicles. If the wipers stuck on your father's car, they were likely out of adjustment or the passenger side wiper arm was installed incorrectly and resting above the driver-side one. The concealed wipers used in 1968 and newer GM cars had a bit more problems.
The 430 engines were a weak point of these cars (as well as most Buick engines with a distributor at the front). They had plenty of power but had some issues with their oiling system and what happened to your father also happened to me! The earlier "Nailhead" engines had a strange design but they were much more durable.
My car is loaded with most options and the vacuum power locks did need to be repaired twice in the 14 years I owned the car but the vacuum lines are now almost 50 years old (and I repaired them with used hoses that are just as old!). The cruise control still works on this car and on my 1965 Wildcat too (both use the same system). I've driven it 35,000 miles in those 14 years. Not much lately because of fuel prices!
At some point, this Riviera was my only running car for a few months in 2001 so it was my daily driver. That's when the head gasket went bad on my 1984 Corolla and I didn't want to fix it! A friend of mine badly needed a second car when his wife got a job out of town so I gave him the Corolla that had been sitting unused for over a year and he sold it back to me a few years later in running condition and with almost twice the mileage it had when I gave it to him! At that point, I had my 1975 Electra as a daily driver and the 1967 Riviera, a 1965 Wildcat and a '74 LeSabre that replaced the Electra during winter as a daily driver so I just gave the Corolla to my uncle who had a '91 Plymouth that was in much worse condition than the '84 Corolla was.<span style="font-size: 14px;"> I couldn't afford driving cars like these daily now, I think if the same situation happened today, I would have kept the Corolla just to save some gas!</span>
[this post was last edited: 3/30/2014-17:17]
1973 Olds
I had a '73 Olds 98 Regency, 4 door hardtop. I loved that car! Dark green exterior with a white vinyl roof. Wonderful green brocade seat fabric. It had a 455 engine and was really hard on gas. It road like a dream.
I had a '73 Olds 98 Regency, 4 door hardtop. I loved that car! Dark green exterior with a white vinyl roof. Wonderful green brocade seat fabric. It had a 455 engine and was really hard on gas. It road like a dream.
