What led to the demise of combo washer/dryers?

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machinehead

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Mar 1, 2006
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Hello everyone--
Seems like a great idea, put two machines in one. Didn't last long though-- anyone know for about how long and what led to the permanent demise of the washer/dryer in one combonation? My guess is difficulty in mechanical engineering, but somebody's gotta know more than me! Were there any typical "classic" problems associated with these machines?
 
Combo/Slowmo

As a child in the early fifties when combination washers were introduced the most likely issue was timing. If the washer was held up two plus hours for each load of laundry it was impossible to keep up with laundry in larger families. The area I was raised was agricultural with lots of sand and dirt. That made the front loader more able to rid the load of loose sand that a solid tub, top loader. Many of the big square RCA Whirlpool combos were popular and mostly in families of four or less. Kenmore helped because of the mass appeal of Sears and it's shopping venue. The exhausted drying system was vastly more popular with homeakers than a condensing system. It only makes sense that a machine working twice as much as two single units has the probability of twice as many service calls. In a word, it was my experience that speed was the factor in dimming the success of combo units.
Kelly
 
.... the permanent demise of the washer/dryer combonation?

I assume you mean the US BUILT washer/dryer combo? They are still alive and well in the European market. Last weekend I was touring some new lofts/condos and they had a new LG washer/dryer (non-vented) combo unit.

 
LG Combos

I'm sure they are expensive. The LG web site does not list a price for the model with 7 washing settings. I did not check the other model.
 
LG Combo

The LG combo sells at Lowes for 1,499.00 It weighs a little over 200 pounds. It is large capacity for a washer but small capacity for drying. It also takes 3 - 4 hours to complete a load with the condensing system.
Kelly
 
lots of reasons

There are lots of reasons why they failed to catch on in the 'States. First, as Kelly mentioned, the time problem.
To dry clothes efficiently, you need a big drum. But if you make the drum big enough to dry the load you are washing in it, there are two serious problems. One, the person loading the drum is going to overload it unless you have some sort of weight limiting system. Very complex and hard to do - especially before binary logic went solid state.
Second, the forces working upon the drum increase exponentially as the drum's circumference expands. This has as a consequence that a machine of normal size spinning at X rpm when expanded to tumble those clothes effectively, was now putting a load on the drum that was four or eight or more times greater to achieve the same extraction. No way to do that at reasonable cost.
So the machines usually only dried half the load they washed, this meant not double the time to wash and dry two loads of clothes but four times...
Finally, the forced air drying systems used in European combo's today are fairly new. Up until the early 1980's, infrared drying was used. The condensor systems were very primitive and extremely trouble prone.
A good idea, just not practicable at reasonable expense.
 
One must remember historically housewives in the United States had access to space, relatively cheap electric or gas rates, which meant laundry could be either dried on lines or in a dryer. This was especially true after the war with the big push to the surburbs. Tying up one machine for hours only prolonged the huge task of all that laundry in an era when there was little "dry clean only" and man made fibers.

For all the reasons mentioned above, combo units seem like a good idea in theory, but in reality washing and drying require different drum volumes to be effective. In the two or so hours it took to so a load in most combos then, a woman could have several loads washed and on the line, or dried and folded/put away; there simply is no contest. Mind you combo units probably had a place then as now as a niche market, but probably wouldn't sell no where near the units needed to keep a production line profitable.

L.
 
Plus......

the required engineering...beyond drum capacity...

You have two essentially incompatible events going on in the same unit... The American combinations were hideously complex machines, and a servicing (restoration) challenge unto nightmare.

Because of the physics, and Bendix's stranglehold on the suspension patents, top spin speeds in the wash phase were not high at all..one unit spun at about 300 rpm..which is comparatively slow, also lengthening drying times.

It's a great idea in theory, but trouble prone in practise.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
The Bendix Duomatic, introduced in 1953 was far and away the best combination unit of it's day. It had a 27" drum that gave excellent washing results - clothes rode the drum to the top and dropped, smashing into the water over and over that did give good results rather quickly. For drying, they used one of the best condenser systems although it would be considered wildly wasteful today. The large drum allowed for plenty of tumbling room and the user was instructed on how to load the drum at the beginning of the wash-dry cycles which was simple and easy to understand. The machine spins at 505 RPM (remember the 27" drum) and gave pretty decent results, about average in most ratings for it's time. Bendix did have a lock on the patents for almost every piece of that machine, including the suspension system for the drum, condensing system, cycle sequences and most importantly, the idea of the "Combination Washer-Dryer" itself so that every other manufacturer had to pay royalties to Bendix to even make a combo. Most other brands paled in comparison - washing the clothes in a drum wasn't difficult but if you couldn't spin them properly, rinsing and the rest of the process suffered greatly. The Westinghouse combination spun at only 180 rpm, the clothes are so wet at the end of the cycle, you can wring water out of them with your hands!

As L said, space and utilities were inexpensive and plentiful so the combo didn't become the runaway hit that appliance makers thought it would but there were a few still being made into the early 70's - Whirlpool(under the Kenmore name) and GE were the last holdouts but completely gone by 1975 or so.
 
Peteski can tell you all about LG's Combo!

What a nightmare he has had with getting his machine serviced!
Which reminds me, I wonder how Jeff Lefever is doing with his?

IMO the Bendix Combo was always the best. The 1953 was the classic style I remember the most. And the sounds they made are etched in my mind forever. That 1st spin speed is VERY "Outer-Limits"!

When I am at Gansky's the first machine I go to is always that beautiful Bendix.
 
LG

Yes Steve is correct - I for warn everyone Beware of LG service. Much will be said in my posting under LG Service Nightmare. It is to bad they do not make a combo in America any longer! OH Bendix where you? I would strongly recommend to anyone that makes a purchase, especially from a foreign company to check to make sure service is reliable or at least somewhat reliable first. Buying a LG is like playing Russian roulette. If it works it's great but if you need service your screwed!
Peter
 
Thanks to everyone for the wonderful info-- that's why i LOVE this place! You guys are awesome; i had no idea that other than the mechanical-engineering servicing nightmare that simple time would do them in, in the US anyway. Still made in Europe though? Kewl!! They work any better than the old ones, i hope?
 
European combos

They work. Since space here is often at a premium, people will accept the 1/2 load drying capacity. But most folks only use it in emergencies.
The much faster spin speeds, enormously higher build quality, and less wasteful condensation systems help, too.
But they are still horribly time consuming.
Bendix' patent lock down ultimately delayed the US FL market's acceptance for 40 years...
I am still puzzled by the lack of seperate high speed spinners in the US. I can cut my drying time (and the detergent residue)very much by spinning at 2,800rpm for just five minutes. Seems like a clear cut winner, but the resistance to the idea is very high. "Wrinkling/Tearing" being two common mis-conceptions I hear from friends and relations in the 'States.
 
'Sploder:

I think that was Pulsator's Spin-X that bit the dust...

Has anyone here ever seen one of the present-day Thor combos? They make one that has a condensor dryer. 120v, too. I've often wished that peteski50 had one of those instead of that *CENSORED* LG. I'm not talking about vintage Thors like the Automagic; the company is still around (or revived) and making machines today.
 
Thor combos

Hi Sandy,
I hear their are problems with the Thor also. It's a matter of getting decent service also. Although when I had my Equator their was once a problem and I got the service ASAP. I am so sorry they I gave up that machine. Also Equator doesn't make those types anymore that were from Italy. Now they are making the Quietline machines from China. Even though I like the combo principal I won't get another. I like to hang a lot of my clothes I wear and I dry mostly my linens like sheets and towels. That is why a combo works well for me. If I have to replace the LG I will probably buy a Frigidaire front loader and live without a dryer. It's not worth the hassel. Like I said I wish they would make a combo in the USA.
Peter
 
Another thing about the combos and the time that they were introduced was the make up of the regular family wash load. In the early 50s, December, 1952, to be exact, when the Duomatic apppeared on the scene after years of designing and testing, the washable fabrics were largely cottons and linens. Many of these garments held a lot of water and needed ironing whether they were line dried or not. Caring for the family laundry meant that a washer, whether an automatic or some other type, was almost a necessity but a dryer was not. Many, if not most homes built in the parts of the country where winter weather was worst had basements where clothes could be put on lines to dry, near the furnace, when they could not go outside, although I remember my mother putting on a coat and either a scarf or hat to hang laundry on the outside lines. In our new 1955 neighborhood, the first items to go up in back yards, along with fences, were the clotheslines posts. I remember my father's installation was far superior to one neighbor's. But the permanent press fabrics that made dryer-drying an important part of the process were not yet here. Many wives and mothers did not work outside of the home so they were not so pressed for time to line dry laundry. It was interesting to watch over a period of about 10 years as families grew and incomes increased, women who had said that they did not want or need a dryer started getting them and using them. In some houses with limited room for the washer upstairs and no basement, having a dryer meant buying a combo. The morning chats while hanging out the loads to dry and then the afternoon conversations as the clothes were taken in disappeared. The other thing that disappeared was the frantic rush to grab the clothes in off the lines if a storm came up. If one neighbor was missing from this frantic fandango, children were sent next door to spread the alarm.

The combos fought a standing tradition that developed before wringer washers and it was that the laundry was all done on one day of the week. It made sense when you had to draw water or pump the water, then heat it and set up rinse tubs. With the combos, you could wash and dry every day without having to be so involved with every step so that a load could be started and pretty much left alone for one and a half to two hours. The very efficient 36 inch wide Duomatics could dry a load in 45 minutes on average, although areas of the country with warmer ground water found that time increased when using the electric condenser models. As with any washing operation that involves using a dryer, it was most efficient to start by laundering lighter weight loads first so that when the sheets and shirts or similar weight items were through washing, they could go into a separate dryer and be done by the time the second load was ready to come out of the washer. In the combos, starting with lighter weight fabric loads enabled the operator to get more loads done faster and possibly find it more convenient to be there when a load finished that either needed immediate folding or putting on hangers to look best. Later loads could be heavier things like towels that would tie up the machine for longer periods of time in the afternoon when school children, shopping and meal preparation were the primary time consuming activities.
 
Peteski50

Peter:

Well, I am sorry to hear that about Thor, because it looks like a great idea.

It's too bad that companies can't seem to put a priority on service, because nothing will lose customers for a company faster than bad service (witness the demise of Maytag as an independent company). Conversely, nothing can put a company over like superior service. Think about it- Thor makes a 120v condensor combo that can be made portable with castors and a sink hook-up, and has no tell-tale steamy dryer exhaust to alert a landlord or super. What could be more perfect for New York City, with its millions of prospective customers? If superior service went along with such a product, Thor could almost own the NYC market.
 

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