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2drumsallergy

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Jan 3, 2007
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Hi Folks,
Well its been an interesting week for me; as you may have read in my earlier thread I had purchased an Electrolux Insight EWN14991W, well to cut a long story short this is the TOL and is advertised on page eight of the Electrolux Free Standing Appliance Brochure as having a drum light. My machine has not been fitted with the advertised drum light which is a violation of The Trade Descriptions Act 1968. I have zero tolerance for miss described products so my Insight is being returned to Electrolux and I am receiving a full refund.
So what to buy now? I am considering two Miele models, the W3985WPS and the W4446WPS I prefer the modern styling so I will probably go for the W4446WPS. My only gripe is the small 6Kg capacity. I had also considered the Bosch Logixx 8 WAS32466GB but ruled it out as Bosch are still using Universal Motors (Carbon Brush) in this machine. Universal Motors are noisier and less reliable than the new 3 Phase Induction Motors (Inverter) so Inverter drive is a must.

Any opinions are welcome, I will be ordering the machine on Monday morning.

Thanks,
David
 
I don't think there is that much difference in drum size between the 8kg Bosch and the 6kg Miele. In order to rise the capacity, they extend the cycles instead of making the drum bigger. If you want a larger capacity I'd go with the American sized Bosch frontloader.

The Miele is a great choice though, I like the styling of the new machines. If I'd buy a new Miele I'd get the Medicwash though because I have a dustmite allergy and the Medicwash has some special cycles to remove dustmites from laundry (read cycles that keep the temperature at 60*C for over an hour).

Now if you were in Switzerland I'd say you should have a look at V-Zug...

Louis
 
Miele

Hi Funguy10,
No not at all both my Dyson washers are running perfectly but I enjoy multiple machines, two Dyson Contra Rotators, a Whirlpool Top Loader 3LSC8255EQ1, an Electrolux Insight EWN14991W but not for much longer and last but not least a Hotpoint Supermatic Deluxe 1414 Twin Tub. Oh I almost forgot my Whirlpool Inspirations 1200 which is not currently connected and seldom used.

Hi Louis,
Thank you for your input. If I were in Switzerland no question it would definitely be a V-Zug but unfortunately the Swiss keep those gems to themselves. I also prefer the modern styling so it will most likely be the Miele W4446WPS. Actually the Bosch drum is 65 Litres a full 11 Litres larger than the Miele at 54 Litres, but yes cycle time are nearly always longer to compensate for the larger capacity. The Bosch is a definite no as they have opted for a cheaper, noisier and less reliable Universal Motor.

I like the quality and quietness of the Insight but it is very poor at rinsing even with the extra rinse selected.

David
 
I am suprised about the dysons. The CR01 is coming to it's 7th birthday and has not had one breakdown! Pretty good for "The United Kingdom's most unreliable washing machine"!
 
Dyson ContraRotator

Funguy10,
The Dyson ContraRotator most certainly is not the UK's most unreliable washing machine. There are thousands of these great and totally unique machines in daily use throughout the United Kingdom. Since they were never sold in the United States it is unlikely you have seen one in the flesh. I have two Dysons and both have proved totally reliable so far.

As I have mentioned before there were a few issues identified on the CR01 series and Dyson released a few modified components to address the problems, any Dyson owner that registered their washer with Dyson were contacted to have the components replaced at no charge. Also if a Dyson CR01 washer failed as a result of said components the machines were always repaired free of charge even if the warranty had expired. The modified components were the Gearbox Actuator, the Outer Door Lock Assembly, the Coin Trap cover, the Detergent Dispenser Tray and finally the operating Software was updated to include a brief contra rotation at the end of the cycle to fluff the laundry. The Gearbox Actuator is a plastic component and it was found that the plastic was absorbing moisture from the atmosphere and expanding in size, the plastic compound was changed and an expansion seam was added to the outer part of the actuator avoiding any future issues.

If the Dyson ContraRotator was still in production I would buy another one without hesitation.

David
 
I think that site is www.epinions.com. Here are thier current top 10 washers:

10: LG WM2487H Front Load Washer.
9: Frigidaire Affinityâ„¢ ATF7000 Front Load Washer.
8: LG WM2487H Front Load Washer.
7: Whirlpool WFW9400S Front Load Washer. (A Duet HT Washer)
6: LG WM3431 Front Load All-in-One Washer / Dryer.
5: LG WM-3677HW Front Load All-in-One Washer / Dryer.
4: Frigidaire GLEH1642DS Front Load Stacked Washer / Dryer.
3: Maytag EPIC® MFW9700S Front Load Washer.
2: LG SteamWasherâ„¢ WM2688H Front Load Washer.
1: Haier HLP21E Top Load Washer. (A Portable Washer!)
 
New washer

Hi David. This is all very interesting - in 2004 I also bought an E-lux (Zanussi Jetsystem 1400) which had been misdescribed. In the online brochure it was claimed this model had a DC brush motor, like my previous Hotpoint Ultima. When I installed the machine and it begun washing, it made that familar `wiry,grizzly' noise that AC universal motors make. I inspected the machine and it was a standard AC motor. I phoned to complain and I was treated like a freak....I didn't pursue the complaint because we had a baby due in 2 weeks. I kept the washer and it was hammered for 3 years - no complaints about from fascia writing wearing, but it was sold with the house when we moved earlier this year as I fancied a new machine
:-).

With regards new washers, well I think I would go with the Miele if price isn't an issue. I was going to get a Miele Premier 520 for about £479, but at the last minute I spotted what I thought was a good deal not to be dismissed - an LG 12311RD which is an 8kg washer and 4kg dryer for £399 on-line. I couldn't ignore this for the larger capacity it offered and I'm actually really pleased with it. Surprisingly, the dryer is really quite efficient. My major complaint is that it can be fussy about balancing. But overall it's a nice washer; quiet, with cycles I can get on with, and at a very sensible price for what seems like a fairly solid machine.....though there have been others on here who have said that the electronics are not that good in the long term.

Have you considered one of the larger capacity Hoovers with inverter motor or an Aqualtis? Have heard positive things about both.

Good luck with your search and I hope you're happy with whatever you choose.

Regards

Nick
 
The Trade Descriptions Act 1968

Hello Nick,
Thank you for your reply. So it's not the first time Electrolux have been at such tricks. I'm sorry to hear of your having a similar problem but you should have pushed it as you were protected by The Trade Descriptions Act 1968, Electrolux had no other option but give me a returns authorization uplift number as they clearly state on page 8 of their brochure that quote "Our new astetic gives you a large capacity in an attractive and modern design. The transparent door frame with an illuminated drum in the top of the range models gives light to the washing machine as well as adding an elegance to the porthole" unquote, and indeed the machine is pictured in the brochure with the drum light illuminated.

It's a blessing in disguise really as the Insight is very poor at rinsing, my towels are stiff and hard when line dried, also mum and I have experienced skin irritation from detergent residue and that's something that's never occurred in this household before. Its a great machine in every other way, supremely quiet, solidly built, great capacity and excellent wash performance however its let down totally by rinsing in a teaspoon of water, even the extra rinse makes almost no improvement. My sister has the previous model Insight and it uses plenty of water during the rinses and of course rinses perfectly. The new Insight needs to use much more water during the rinses to resolve the problem.

I actually had an 8Kg Aqualtis AQGD169S for a couple of weeks but I returned it as the paintwork was discoloured behind the warranty registration sticker, Hotpoint shipped me a replacement Aqualtis but it was exactly the same as the first one. It was a shame as I really liked the Aqualtis and it used plenty of water during the rinses.

Thankfully money is not an issue so it will likely be the Miele, I prefer the modern design W4446WPS with the larger porthole. My only reservation is the Miele's relatively small 54 Litre 6Kg drum. I'm used to a cavernous 78 Litre drum in my Dysons which easily washes a 15.0 Togg weight King Size Duvet. I would have liked the Bosch but unfortunately they use that screechy Universal motor in their TOL model, I know this because my local Currys tipped one on its side so I could have a look at the Motor LOL.

Thanks again,
David

9-29-2007-16-50-29--2DrumsAllergy.jpg
 
Well, here is a link to a podcast at www.fixitnow.com about the various choices in washing machines. In this edition, "The Samurai" and Mrs. Samurai talk about various washing machines and thier pros and cons. He happens to talk a lot about Staber(A USA manufacturer of Top-Loading Horizontal-Axis washers) because Staber happens to be his favorite brand. He also knows, as you will tell by listening to the Podcast, that Staber is not a well known brand. Other than that bit of repetitveness, it is a pretty interesting show.

http://podcast.fixitnow.com/farr/Podcast/B1A02617-51BE-49FE-BF28-2EA97B85F1D5.html
 
Hi David,

Quick post as I've just come in from work and am tired, but I have to say the 6 kilo drum on my mum;s Miele isn't small at all. It is small by comparison to the 8kilo mammoth machines of today we've never struggled at all with the drum size with a family of 6. It will hold huge towel loads, usually 4 bath sheets, 1 or 2 bath towels, about 3 or 4 handtowels, odd amounts of flannels and a bath mat and handle it with ease - more so than the old Bosch WFO2864 which had a similar sized drum but just couldn't handle being filled to capacity. I regularly wash sleeping bags and duvets in both my 5 kilo and mum's 6 kilo machines with ease, in fact the only duvet I can't fit in are our winter king size duvets which won't fit in any washer smaller than the 35lb machines at the launderette. Remember that perhaps small compared to a lot of washers today, the Miele drums are still huge compared to the 9/10lb washers of yesteryear.

There's lots of clever technology built into the Miele that the eye doesn't see, lots of sensor technology and no two cycles are the same. I've never owned a machine which has washed, rinsed and spun so well yet so quietly... definitely a happy customer here. The only gripe I had at first was that it only did 2 standard rinse cycles as standard, with an optional 3rd. I was used to the 4 or 5 rinses which the AEG 86741 offered, but even with just 2 rinses the Miele seems to rinse just as well, and even better with 3 rinses. They are the only machines to this date which I'm able to use biological powders in and not have anybody complain of itchy skin.

The inverter motor on mum's machine is nice, and spookily quiet, but I think I prefer the noise from the DC motor on my W2652 - still quiet, but a lot of power is there in the noise too whereas with the W3922 you just here the drum and suspension with no motor noise at all.

Hope this helps,

Jon
 
Jon

No need for you to post....We all know what machine you would recommend!!!!!!!!!

Sorry couldn't resist being a cheeky bitch!!!

Mark

xx
 
David

I personally unfortunately don't know which machine to recommend. I don't have much experience with modern machines. Only one we had was a cheap candy which we bought to sell with our old house. Used it for a short while and it was ok but dont know how long it would have lasted as from day one the motor sounded a bit dodgy!!

Mark
 
Hello TwoDrumsAllergy,

Sorry to hear about your electrolux, but as you say it is a good thing as they are poor rinsers, I have discussed on here before about the very low water level when rinsing, regardless of how good the jetsystem is supposed to be, you need water to take out the detergent, and it certainly does not have enough water during the rinses.

I have the same insight that your sister has I believe you mentioned in an older post.. I do not think the water level is suficcient enough in that machine personally, so if you say the new machine is even worse it must be terrible.. I had to call serviceforce out within the first 3 weeks to unblock the jetsystem, now the jetsystem has stopped working totally and I get a smell of burning plastic......

I am still looking for a Dyson, I have a larger car now and I am just waiting for a nice machine to come up for sale somewhere so I can go and get it. *hopes that a CR02 allergy comes up* :-)

Good luck with your new machine,

Dave

PS. I never did find out about the machine with the disabled contrarotor action..
 
Its Such A Shame!!

Electrolux seem to be making some very attractive looking washers with some very innovative programs! Though as many of you have mentioned they seem to have forgotten that to rinse clothes properly you need a decent amount of water!

I am quite interested to hear if the Super Rinse or Extra Rinse on your Insight washers increase the water level at all?? On my 6kg Zanussi - Electrolux you get extra water added to rinses when you use Super Rinse, So i am just wondering if they have carried on the same trend :)

Pic below shows rinse water levels with Super Rinse added :)

Hope you have better luck with you next machine :):)

Richard

Richard

View attachment 9-30-2007-08-05-26--samsungfl.jpg
 
New Washer

Hi Folks,
Thanks for all your input.

Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your suggestion, that Hoover certainly is great value for money and the Hoovers are generally very good machines but the 46 Litre drum is a bit small for me. If I was going for a Hoover I would buy the Vision HD I like the styling of Vision HDs.

Hi Jon,
I meant the Miele’s 54 Litre drum is small by comparison; don’t forget I’m used to the Dyson’s 78 Litre drum which can handle a 15.0 Tog King Size Duvet. Oh yes there are multiple sensors throughout a top end Miele including a Turbidity Sensor which sends a light beam through the water as the machine drains, if the sensor detects cloudiness this indicates detergent has not been totally removed and the System Software triggers an extra rinse cycle. Clever stuff! As for Universal Motors yes they are powerful and ideally suited to a washing machine but a 3 Phase Induction Motor is much more powerful, this is because the 3 Phase supply (Albeit from an Inverter) creates a spinning magnetic field providing an enormous amount starting torque, 3 Phase Motors are also much more energy efficient than Single or Split Phase (Capacitor start and run) Motors. I have always liked Induction Motors, probably because of my favourite vintage machines which were the smooth silent and very reliable Philco Bendix Autowashers, they used huge Split Phase Induction Motors. Oh if I could only go out and buy a new Bendix Autowasher Electronic 1000 71258 I would be in Heaven LOL.
I have decided to order the Miele W4446WPS as I prefer the modern styling and I know the Miele will rinse well and that is a must for me.

Hi Mark,
As I mentioned above if I could only buy a 1980s Bendix new in box I would be in heaven, alas the days of those beauties are gone. Those vintage Bendix Autowashers were outstanding machines, great wash and rinse performance and virtually silent.

Hello Dave,
Yes it’s sad as the Insight is a beautiful and well made machine. I am amazed at the amount of water used during the rinses, the load is saturated and then just enough extra water to maintain the jet. Utterly useless! Actually my sisters Insight fills with plenty of water during the rinses at least a quarter up the door glass, I expected my Insight to do the same. How wrong I was!
Good luck in your search for a Dyson they do turn up from time to time so keep an eye out for one.

Hi Richard,
Yes it a shame because in every other way my Insight is a fantastic washer and it really is a beautifully styled machine.
Unfortunately not, the Extra Rinse option only adds another shallow rinse and the settings menu does not allow any adjustment of the water levels. My sisters Insight rinses at the level of your Zanussi and if my one filled to that level I’m sure it would not have any rinsing problems whatsoever. When it comes to rinsing there is no substitute for a decent amount of water.

David
 
Miele W3985WPS Navitronic.

Hi Folks,
Well I had to order the TOL Miele W3985WPS 1800RPM 6KG Navitronic. For some reason best known to Miele the W4446WPS is not available in Northern Ireland. Apparently Northern Ireland is supplied by Miele Ireland and not Miele UK despite the fact that Northern Ireland is part of the UK; Miele Ireland do not import the W4446WPS so it's not available from our local Electrical Retailers. There is actually a fairly limited range of models for the Irish and Northern Irish market. See www.Miele.ie

The Miele cost me £1300 so it better be worth the money! It should be here on Thursday or Friday this week, I will post pictures when it arives.

http://www.miele.co.uk/Products/Features.aspx?pid=101
10-2-2007-08-17-52--2DrumsAllergy.jpg
 
Hi David

All I can say is blimey thats a posh machine!

I was looking at the instruction manual.......Cant believe how many options etc and how clever the machine is.
Looks like it will be an amazing machine.
I wish you good luck David and hope all will be well with this one but then again its a miele...enough said...lol

Mark
 
Miele W3985WPS Navitronic.

Hi Mark,
Thank you fr your good wishes. Yes it has an astounding number of options and to be honest the majority of them will likely never be used LOL. I would say the Electrolux Insight is a much better looking machine but what use are looks if the thing can't rinse properly and does not have the drum light as advertised in their brochure?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed as my sister had the Miele from hell! It had (In my opinion as an engineer) a wrongly calibrated pressure sensor on the main board which caused the machine to use too little water during cottons wash, so little water that it was not even visible in the drum. This resulted in the load not being saturated and appalling wash performance. The engineer was out 4 times and every time he plugged a computer into the machine which said all was well, he would not even start the machine on the wash cycle in question. My sister opted to buy a new Electrolux Insight as it only cost £60 more than the control board for the Miele. Now I appreciate this was likely a one off but none the less the whole affair was handled improperly and has left my sister that she would never consider a Miele again. If the control board had been replaced my sister would have been happy and most likely still using the machine today.
Anyway what's past is past!

David
 
Ow that's indeed a negative way to experience Miele. Still I think that is't a perfect machine. Here in belgium we can order any machine even not imported. The local miele dealer orderd for me a machine with flat dispay instead of angled because the machine had to be fit under a counter. No extra costs and the machine arrived within a week.
 
We have its predecessor the W2888

The menus are easy to use, and provide simple access to change the various options.

I really only ever use three cycles, Shirts, Cottons and Cottons Hygiene.

Our machine when it behaves itself on the wooden floor is silent other than the drain pump, and the load sensing is great, in that it can adjust the wash time by up to 10 minutes on a short wash, or 30 minutes on a long wash, depending on the size of the load.

In the previous generation it offered huge improvements in configurability and flexibility over the lower models. These days the base models are just as flexible and configurable.

The tangible benefit that it gives over my old 1400RPM spin speed model, is even dryer clothes. The 1400RPM on my W2515 would get things damp dry, but even light cottons were never quite ironing ready. The 1800RPM means that Hankies, and some shirts can be ironed out of the machine. It still amazes me, that there is no difference in wrinkling between 1400 and 1800 RPM.

Good luck with your new machine, and make it be trouble free and make you happy for years to come.
 
Hi David,

Intresting about your sisters machine and the water level, my EWF12108 is very poor on rinse levels, when the engineer comes this week to fix the jetsystem I will ask him about this...

Have fun with the Miele :-)
 
David - congratulations, you'll love the machine for sure. They are truly brilliant machines and as much as I love other brands of washers, if I could only have one machine it'd always be a Miele :-).

Jon
 
Miele W3985WPS Navitronic.

Hi askomiele,
Yes I know it sounds strange but that’s the way Miele Ireland operate, I could probably have bought one online from the UK Mainland but I like to support my local Laser store. Laser is Northern Ireland’s largest independent electrical retailer and they provide a very personal service. The Northern Ireland retailers can only source Miele appliances from Miele Ireland and as you can see they only carry certain models.

Hi Louis,
Yes there are so many options on the Navitronic but I’m familiar with the system as I had a W2888WPS for 3 weeks, I returned it to the store as it developed a rattle during top spin. The machine was silent during wash and slower spins.

Hi Nathan,
Yes the Navitronic is a very user friendly system; I particularly like the ease of navigation which is not dissimilar to Nokia Cell Phones. I like the large display too.

Hi Dave,
Yes do please ask the engineer, I for one am interested in his answer. My sister’s machine is the EWF14108W which is identical to your machine except it spins at 1400RPM. I suspect there may be different versions of the operating Software and my sister’s machine uses an older version.

Hi Jon,
Thank you. I’m sure I will like it and at least I know it will rinse properly and deep rinses can be selected.
I have noticed the Insight only has rinsing problems on the Cottons cycle but that’s due to Cottons ability to hold on to detergent whereas Synthetic fibres release detergent effortlessly. Rinses on the Insight’s Synthetics cycle are done in a teaspoonful of water just like the Cottons cycle.
I will post pictures as soon as I take delivery which will likely be Friday.

David

http://www.miele.ie/
 
Miele W3985WPS Navitronic.

Hi Folks,
Just a quick update!
Well the Miele W3985WPS Navitronic did not arrive at Laser's dispatch centre till this morning. Unfortunately it arrived too late to be dispatched to me so its going to be Monday afternoon before I take delivery.

David
 

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