solsburian
Well-known member
Pic from my Hoover manual...
It can take up to a 6KG load.
It can take up to a 6KG load.
What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy
- Thread starter 3beltwesty
- Start date
Help Support :
"Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.
Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries."
It is based on our experience with those vintage frontloaders filled up to half glass door even on the main wash. I have a vintage Zerowatt in garage that acts like that. Is the best machine to wash wetsuits or towelling BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. They just float and roll over as if they were on a delicate cycle.
Another clue : my mother's Candy SA5 had an half load button (lower water lever) BUT as the motor had a lower load to tumble the drum rotated too fast and it made distributions rather than tumbles. So without actual tumble action there was no stain removal
Chek Norfolk Southern's Zerowatt : not a case it has a true european full load
Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries."
It is based on our experience with those vintage frontloaders filled up to half glass door even on the main wash. I have a vintage Zerowatt in garage that acts like that. Is the best machine to wash wetsuits or towelling BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. They just float and roll over as if they were on a delicate cycle.
Another clue : my mother's Candy SA5 had an half load button (lower water lever) BUT as the motor had a lower load to tumble the drum rotated too fast and it made distributions rather than tumbles. So without actual tumble action there was no stain removal
Chek Norfolk Southern's Zerowatt : not a case it has a true european full load
link
to the aforementioned Zerowatt
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?24257
to the aforementioned Zerowatt
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?24257
haxisfan
Well-known member
@ Favorit... ineffective half loads...
It wasn't always the case with all models... perhaps with the pre-Candy ones due to their 'higher than average' set tumble speed. My parents 1988 Zerowatt (already Candy in 1985) could wash half loads brialliantly with guaranteed tumble action. The phenomenon you described above would probably occur with a very small load but not with half loads. Perhaps even after entering the Candy group Zerowatt adopted some of its own components... e.g. the drum in the washer I mentioned above is exactly the same as the one in the Zerowatt (Excellence) of your link.
Being aware that lots of people (especially Italians) keep paraising the old Zerowatt appliances for their sturdy construction and the durability of their components but I have good reasons to believe just the opposite: I witnessed a massive improvement in Zerowatt appliances only after they had been absorbed by Candy: I refer to my lifelong experience with this brand since early 70's. I wasn't around then yet, but my grand parents had a Zerowatt FL produced in this era which gave the occasional electrical glitch... though it couldn't be blamed as much as it was kept in a very damp place, however, after 4 or 5 years it had to have a new timer control mechanism. My parents had a 1976 Zerowatt (cosmetically similar to my grand parents' one but with a slightly faster spin speed) and it had a repair for something or another every couple of years... with the most recurrent failure being the bearings. It gave up the ghost after 12 years with a burn out motor and a collapsed drum spider (it's still kept in a garage... as an antique object d'art). My aunt had the exact same washer which she bought a year later... she never complained for its cleaning abilities and she managed somehow to make it last 20 odd years only thanks to countless sets of bearings and 3 whole outer tubs!
My parents bought another Zerowatt after that in 1988 (the one aforementioned) which has been fairly reliable throughout the years and it's still as ready as ever to takle the toughest and fullest load of laundry you can imagine: it's had a number of drain pumps during the course of its life, a few door seals and a new set of drum bearings (when it was about 12 years of age), yet I wouldn't feel like judging such repair record mercilessly considering the fact that 'it' (or should I say 'she') punctually carried out a boilwash once or twice a week (as well as other easier wash loads with the least impact on its components).
Only a few months ago, she (the Zerowatt) finally obtained a part-time job... having pleaded with my parents for letting me have it in exchange for my modern Indesit washer-dryer which b.t.w. broke down during this period requiring a new PCB. I said 'part-time' as I will be using the Zerowatt only when I got to see my parents a couple of weeks twice a year.
I included a 10 minute clip below of a 3/4 wash load in this oldish Zerowatt (1988) where the half load function had been selected... I will test it with less clothes somewhen in future. The first 5 minutes of the clip shows a load of clothes washed in the Indesit washer dryer (now my parent's) as I wanted to test both washers for their ability to clean a load of laundry using cold water enabled washing detergents.
It wasn't always the case with all models... perhaps with the pre-Candy ones due to their 'higher than average' set tumble speed. My parents 1988 Zerowatt (already Candy in 1985) could wash half loads brialliantly with guaranteed tumble action. The phenomenon you described above would probably occur with a very small load but not with half loads. Perhaps even after entering the Candy group Zerowatt adopted some of its own components... e.g. the drum in the washer I mentioned above is exactly the same as the one in the Zerowatt (Excellence) of your link.
Being aware that lots of people (especially Italians) keep paraising the old Zerowatt appliances for their sturdy construction and the durability of their components but I have good reasons to believe just the opposite: I witnessed a massive improvement in Zerowatt appliances only after they had been absorbed by Candy: I refer to my lifelong experience with this brand since early 70's. I wasn't around then yet, but my grand parents had a Zerowatt FL produced in this era which gave the occasional electrical glitch... though it couldn't be blamed as much as it was kept in a very damp place, however, after 4 or 5 years it had to have a new timer control mechanism. My parents had a 1976 Zerowatt (cosmetically similar to my grand parents' one but with a slightly faster spin speed) and it had a repair for something or another every couple of years... with the most recurrent failure being the bearings. It gave up the ghost after 12 years with a burn out motor and a collapsed drum spider (it's still kept in a garage... as an antique object d'art). My aunt had the exact same washer which she bought a year later... she never complained for its cleaning abilities and she managed somehow to make it last 20 odd years only thanks to countless sets of bearings and 3 whole outer tubs!
My parents bought another Zerowatt after that in 1988 (the one aforementioned) which has been fairly reliable throughout the years and it's still as ready as ever to takle the toughest and fullest load of laundry you can imagine: it's had a number of drain pumps during the course of its life, a few door seals and a new set of drum bearings (when it was about 12 years of age), yet I wouldn't feel like judging such repair record mercilessly considering the fact that 'it' (or should I say 'she') punctually carried out a boilwash once or twice a week (as well as other easier wash loads with the least impact on its components).
Only a few months ago, she (the Zerowatt) finally obtained a part-time job... having pleaded with my parents for letting me have it in exchange for my modern Indesit washer-dryer which b.t.w. broke down during this period requiring a new PCB. I said 'part-time' as I will be using the Zerowatt only when I got to see my parents a couple of weeks twice a year.
I included a 10 minute clip below of a 3/4 wash load in this oldish Zerowatt (1988) where the half load function had been selected... I will test it with less clothes somewhen in future. The first 5 minutes of the clip shows a load of clothes washed in the Indesit washer dryer (now my parent's) as I wanted to test both washers for their ability to clean a load of laundry using cold water enabled washing detergents.
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
my USA old reasons for old FL washers are similar to the UK
Here with some items that are real super dirty; I have always tended to have the machine say 1/3 to 2/3 rds full, never chock full.
The reasons here are that one has a safety factor, one was too getting a better chance of cleaning; than a full load that is crammed real full .
*****ie I never really heard of:
"BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. "
****** until I came to this washing machine website.
Most of my experience is with FL washing is my older 1976 3 belt westy; which has an oval potato pulley that varies the wash speed between 52 to 62rpm. The only real effect of varying the load is the average rpm drops slightly with more load; the motor is just a dumb 1800 rpm AC induction motor. This rpm is such with its 22" diameter that items drop back into the wash water; they do not stay at the other radius
Here with say a weekends worth of dirty pants and tshirts to work on the car, roof or truck I typically wash these as one wash load; even if the machine is 1/3 full.
I do not "wait" and save up like greasy dirty items and then wash them 2 months or 3 months later "when the machine is full". There are several reason why. Stains set with time . I also would not want to add church white shirts in the same load as some greasy bluejeans and "hope" that it worked; I was not raised to roll the dice.
Thus often here in the USA some folks purposely do not do the "lets fill the washer to its max gambit" .
we often do not want stains to set, we often do not want to mix 30 dollar new white shirts with 50 cent thrift store bluejeans full of axle grease, we often do not want colors to bleed on white items.
The added "waste" of washing a 1/2 load cannot even be measured in our budgets, our machines often do what well at 1/2 loads too.
Here with some items that are real super dirty; I have always tended to have the machine say 1/3 to 2/3 rds full, never chock full.
The reasons here are that one has a safety factor, one was too getting a better chance of cleaning; than a full load that is crammed real full .
*****ie I never really heard of:
"BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. "
****** until I came to this washing machine website.
Most of my experience is with FL washing is my older 1976 3 belt westy; which has an oval potato pulley that varies the wash speed between 52 to 62rpm. The only real effect of varying the load is the average rpm drops slightly with more load; the motor is just a dumb 1800 rpm AC induction motor. This rpm is such with its 22" diameter that items drop back into the wash water; they do not stay at the other radius
Here with say a weekends worth of dirty pants and tshirts to work on the car, roof or truck I typically wash these as one wash load; even if the machine is 1/3 full.
I do not "wait" and save up like greasy dirty items and then wash them 2 months or 3 months later "when the machine is full". There are several reason why. Stains set with time . I also would not want to add church white shirts in the same load as some greasy bluejeans and "hope" that it worked; I was not raised to roll the dice.
Thus often here in the USA some folks purposely do not do the "lets fill the washer to its max gambit" .
we often do not want stains to set, we often do not want to mix 30 dollar new white shirts with 50 cent thrift store bluejeans full of axle grease, we often do not want colors to bleed on white items.
The added "waste" of washing a 1/2 load cannot even be measured in our budgets, our machines often do what well at 1/2 loads too.
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
This is what our 1947 and 1976 westinghouse FL manuals prea
This UK comment is what my family found out with USA FL westys
Since folks here differ on opinions, the washers design must be a factor; or ones stance too.
This UK comment is what my family found out with USA FL westys
Since folks here differ on opinions, the washers design must be a factor; or ones stance too.
The Westy
doesnt have variable speed control does it?? just the potato pully, so if you wash cottons, does it fill to low level??
and if you wash synthetics / man made/ /delicates then the water level is higher??
so if the water level is high there is less chance of them being lifted out of the water with a small load!!
The older UK / & Euro machines just had two water levels, so unless you used the HALF LOAD button on a small cotton load, you would get a less vigerous, more delicate wash
The beauty of todays UK machines is that they take the ammount of water required for the load inside & the programme selected, so its save save every load (providing you have filled the drum to optimum load setting for fabric being washed & you have selected the correct wash programme)
I used a potato pulley westy at the last convention, great machine, our English Electric is its decendant!!
doesnt have variable speed control does it?? just the potato pully, so if you wash cottons, does it fill to low level??
and if you wash synthetics / man made/ /delicates then the water level is higher??
so if the water level is high there is less chance of them being lifted out of the water with a small load!!
The older UK / & Euro machines just had two water levels, so unless you used the HALF LOAD button on a small cotton load, you would get a less vigerous, more delicate wash
The beauty of todays UK machines is that they take the ammount of water required for the load inside & the programme selected, so its save save every load (providing you have filled the drum to optimum load setting for fabric being washed & you have selected the correct wash programme)
I used a potato pulley westy at the last convention, great machine, our English Electric is its decendant!!
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
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Thw Westys added a variable control on the last models
Westinghouse somewhere about 1988? dropped the 3 belt system and used a DC torquer motor controlled by an electronic speed control.
This system basically dropped the complex, many little parts, mechanical transmission and used one belt and a motor that could be controlled/programmed.
The tub was the similar (different sump for new pump) ; the spin basket was the same size but the shaft not was not replaceable, ie the drum can rotate either way. This was used from about say 1988? to about 1992/3 ? ish. ie until America "rediscovered" the FL washer!
Both the roughly 3 belt 1962 to 1988 and Torquer 1988 to 1993 models look similar; and use the same door boot; same door. Unless one looked at the "controls" one cannot really the difference.
The pump is different on the older variant; it is driven off the drive motor.
The 3 belt model I have here from 1976 has a fully manual water level control. One just sets it where you want to for the clothes being washed. The door is spring loaded and has a scale. One can weight the clothes as an aid for the water level setting. ie "weigh to save" .
My old 1976 westy really as two cycles; I need to posty an image to show the dials settings
On the non potato belt newer westy; the motor and control ; I think was originally German. Here is what the motor looks like in the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westinghouse-F-...817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item255e008701
Westinghouse somewhere about 1988? dropped the 3 belt system and used a DC torquer motor controlled by an electronic speed control.
This system basically dropped the complex, many little parts, mechanical transmission and used one belt and a motor that could be controlled/programmed.
The tub was the similar (different sump for new pump) ; the spin basket was the same size but the shaft not was not replaceable, ie the drum can rotate either way. This was used from about say 1988? to about 1992/3 ? ish. ie until America "rediscovered" the FL washer!
Both the roughly 3 belt 1962 to 1988 and Torquer 1988 to 1993 models look similar; and use the same door boot; same door. Unless one looked at the "controls" one cannot really the difference.
The pump is different on the older variant; it is driven off the drive motor.
The 3 belt model I have here from 1976 has a fully manual water level control. One just sets it where you want to for the clothes being washed. The door is spring loaded and has a scale. One can weight the clothes as an aid for the water level setting. ie "weigh to save" .
My old 1976 westy really as two cycles; I need to posty an image to show the dials settings
On the non potato belt newer westy; the motor and control ; I think was originally German. Here is what the motor looks like in the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Westinghouse-F-...817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item255e008701
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
franksdad
Well-known member
Dockers
I'm a natural fiber guy. I don't "do" polyester.
I'm a natural fiber guy. I don't "do" polyester.
retromania
Well-known member
Now confess..
...franksday. You know you're still wearing those polyester leisure suits from the 70's!
...franksday. You know you're still wearing those polyester leisure suits from the 70's!
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