What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy

[3beltwesty]

Due to endless debates on other threads that Europes smaller volume 24" frame washers wash as much clothes as a larger basket volume American 27" Frame washer I decided today to wash a fuller wash load on the LG WM2501HVA this morning as a test.

Since all the blue jeans came out clean one must conclude I underloaded the machine by non USA folks. ie one could have added more stuff to wash; to chase maybe a 1/2 cent in savings.

Here I placed what to my 50 years experience with FL washers is a rather full load of bluejeans and overalls. Then I weighted them on a great scale and they weighed in as 25 Lbs; I will call it only 24 Lb to allow for no biases. That is about 11Kg. Those jeans are off varied newness, many are old and used for construction. There is 15 pairs of bluejeans and 1 pair of overalls and 7 pairs of socks.

The load sense software of the machine only sensed this as 2 out of 4 bars; ie a 1/2 load.

The full cycle was 55 minutes. The machine looked full before the wash water started; then there was a decent amount of headroom so the stuff would randomly mix.

Three videos will be posted.

It is not clear whether in Europe a wash load like this would be considered wastefull; since one could add more items. Or maybe this is normal European practice of washing 11Kg each time.

This LG washer was just an average sized FL 27" washer I got last fall; 4.2 IEC size. There were no 24" frame washers at any local store.

With this 25 / 24Lb ; 11 Kg load all the items came out clean; they even all fit
in the 1976 Westy dryer too.

My guess is if I placed 28, 30, or 32 Lbs of items; somewhere the wash action must have to decline.

http://www.youtube.com/user/3beltwesty#p/a/u/2/HEaNMyKyl70

 

[3beltwesty]

Video during part of rinse with 24Lbs

Video 2 or 3

http://www.youtube.com/user/3beltwesty#p/a/u/1/k53bVbLf8Ro

 

[3beltwesty]

Video during part of SPIN cycle rinse with 24Lbs

Video 3 of 3

http://www.youtube.com/user/3beltwesty#p/a/u/0/L_1xkYCHoO8

 

[3beltwesty]

Photo before start of washing

Maybe another test should be run fuller

 

[3beltwesty]

Machine at 49min left in a 55 min cycle

Here is only 6 minutes into the total 55 min cycle.

The water spray has not reached all spots yet; thus the machine still looks sort of full still.

A few minutes later one has the stuff all wet and there is much free room at the top of the basket.

 

[3beltwesty]

RINSE cycle; 24 minutes left

One can straight through to the back of the spin basket with the drum revolving and rinse water being sprayed.

 

[hoover1100]

does anyone else

smell a troll around here?

 

[3beltwesty]

SPIN High speed

Here is a shot during the high rpm extract. The clothes of course are now at the outer parts of the spin basket. There is a big donut hole in the middle now.

 

[3beltwesty]

24 LBs done now

Here is the wash load done. With a lessor load the stuff is usually not at the top, ie the detangle scheme makes it drop down,

 

[3beltwesty]

SALEMAN told me that my dryer would be too small

Here is the 24Lb worth of stuff in the 1976 Westinghouse dryer. The slick salesfolks *ALL* told me that I needed a new dryer; ie it would be too small for the LG's "capacity"

 

[jerrod6]

 Maybe I am missing something. A troll?  Come on.  He is trying to do exactly what I asked folks to do in the other thread;  Show us pics and vids of fully loaded large washers and tell us how well they wash and rinse.

 

[3beltwesty]

11Kg done and out of dryer

Mountain of items.

This is just a typical sized FL washer sold at Home Depot, Lowes or Sears. It is not even the best brand either.

 

[3beltwesty]

Before wash stack is 0.6 meters tall

Here is a shot with the 11Kg of stuff before washing

 

[3beltwesty]

jerrod6;

Normally I wash less than this; ie what may preach on this site as so called wastefull.

With the constant preaching by non usa folks that we underload; here I just wanted to try a much larger load as a real world test.

I purposely have been saving up the work clothes. I actually have about 3 to 4 times this number of jeans for construction; often bought at just a few dollars per pair.

Even the super dirty jeans I used last weekend in roofing were in this load and they came out clean.

I suppose if I owned a 27" Miele I could wash even more ?

 

[mrb627]

The Real Issue...

What is the real issue in comparing the 24" machines to the 27" models?  It sounds like members are claiming that Americans are being wasteful by washing the same amount of clothing in a 27" machine that a 24" machine can handle.  Is this accurate?

 

Malcolm

 

[3beltwesty]

Home washers in the USA were once sold as "20 Lb machine

On another thread I believe "supremewhirlpol" showed washing a giant basket of jeans and it weighed in as something like 20Lbs roughly.

Thus trying a larger load 20 percent larger as a real life test is really not so odd.

Many USA washers were once marketed and marked as "20LB Washers" too; ie about 9 Kg; thus testing a modern machine at 20Lb or 24Lb is interesting since today they are marked with IEC numbers and not weight.

Since most non usa folks here constantly use machines hawked with Kg specs, in this test I used weight and not volume.

 

[jerrod6]

Malcolm this might be the issue but I guess it depends.  I have a 24" Euro machine that I try to use fully loaded, but I don't feel bad if I wash 1  or 2 items I might  need because it will sense the load size after a few minutes and reduce the time of time of each part of the cycle and also use less water for it.  There is also the case where I wash 1 cotton item at nearly 200F and this is a load of 1 item, so I think it is Ok to use it for one or two items if I need them.  So perhaps wasteful depends on how well your washer will detect a small size and make adjustments for it.  Don't Whirlpools  have that dirtiness setting you can use ...more... less....I would guess that less means less time less water.  From the previous vids and info  it seems that the LG senses the load size too so perhaps smaller loads are not a big deal.

 

[Pingmeep]

3beltwesty Most LG washers are marketed as having greater than 10Kg dry linen capacity.

Even my small 2.7 IEC cubic feet washer can handle a load of 10kg.

Not sure what you were trying to prove. ;-)

 

[3beltwesty]

Not a troll, but the facts must hurt.

Matt; the facts must hurt; ie reality hurts. ie the smaller 24" machines basket washes less clothes.

If machines that really hold 50 percent less volume can really wash 11Kg; then please show.

This stuff washed would not even fit into the drum of my 1976 FL westy with its 2.6 cuft spin basket; thus the real "troll" is the constant dogma that the smaller machines wash the same as a larger machines.

24" machine folks have no data; thus the "troll" is the preaching that smaller machines wash the sames amount of clothes.

That is why the US has specs for washers; to prevent trollish hokem. ie protects the public. One cannot LEGALLY make such statements here.

 

[neptunebob]

Really, is it not the volume that matters rather than the weight of the clothes?  Blue jeans are a heavy, dense material but do not take up that much volume like sheer curtains would but those do not weigh much. 

 

Still I would have divided that load as I wonder how it must smell.  I find when I overload (I don't) the clothes do not smell clean.  I would also be afraid of overheating the dryer. 

 

[3beltwesty]

Both Weight and Volume matter

Both weight and volume are not perfect guides, both matter.

But what else can we use?

using just one is poor too.

If one has fluffy stuff one has a lot of volume and little mass.

If one sewed fishing sinkers in the jeans the machine could have just 8 pairs of blue jeans and the same 11 Kg weight but more room for movement.

All the stuff washed here smells fine; it all washed very well.

There has to be some sort of tracking with the number of jeans washed versus basket size since there has to be space for things to move round. Since non use folks washers are speced in Kg it seems odd that the volume issue is often downplayed.

Thus if this same 11Kg load is placed in a smaller basket that is 2/3's the size the mixing has to be less; unless there is some trick?...

This load of clothes will not fit in the 1976 westy FL drum with a 2.6 cuft basket; the same volume as many 24" frames. Thus one would have to wash less pairs of jeans since the volume is too large.

 

[dj-gabriele]

...members are claiming that Americans are being wasteful...

by washing the same amount of clothing in a 27" machine that a 24" machine can handle. Is this accurate?

EXACTLY THAT!

And without offending anybody I just would like to explain the point again:

The average American load is a half load compared to the European average load, nobody is saying that an American FL machine is wasteful compared to an European one.

Anyway jeans is not a standard cotton load, it's jeans. You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed sheets and similar other items.

Myself I wouldn't overload my machine with more than 5 pair of jeans because otherwise the denim develops those nasty discolored lines and the fabric is stiff so it needs room to tumble! In this case it's not underloading, it's following care instructions.

11 kg or 24 lbs is the standard capacity for this 24" machine from LG, sold all over the 230 Volts world.
So indeed a small machine can hold the same capacity of a larger one, it all depends on the software that drives it (within certain limits of course!)

Now going back to "standard" and not oversize 24" machines, the average American load fits, and space remains in a "little" 5 kg machine. This was just what we (can I use we) wanted to say.

And of course the machine regulates water and power use!

There were a lot of official tests done here: one of Whirlpool Italy, that can be found on youtube too, shows the machine washing a full load of clothes (8kg) and it consumed 60 litres of water.
When washing 1 kg of clothes, the machine used only 25 litres of water and completed the programme in half the time.

Now:

60/8 = 7,5 litres of water per kg
25/1 = 25 litres of water per kg

this is or not a waste?

It's what everybody is trying to explain.

And to finish up, indeed in a bigger volume you can stuff more clothes, but if the machine isn't designed to handle it, you're not going to obtain a fair result!

Please comment, I wish I've been clear enough!

http://www.lg.com/it/home-appliances/washing-machines/LG-F1443KDS.jsp

 

[mayfan69]

Anyway jeans is not a standard cotton load, it's jeans.

My thoughts exactly Gabriel: i don't think a full jeans is an accurate reflection: a MIXED load would give a better indication.

However, i suspect no matter what was suggested, the 'i'm right' attitude is going to continue.

Leon

 

[ptcruiser51]

My factory reps for LG, GE, and Maytag

All tell me essentially the same thing: When you've loaded the machine, you should be able to shut the door easily without forcing it. If you're pushing, it's overloaded. If not, it will wash whatever's in there satisfactorily if you've selected the correct cycle.

They use either bath towels or king-size bed linens as a measure, since they are of uniform size. You just can't compare 25 pair of mens' sz.40 jeans to 25 pairs of ladies' sz.4 jeans! Ditto with sweats, shirts, et. al.

Goes the same for top-load non-agitator machines.

Off topic, but I just had to share. Yesterday I was doing wash at my apartment's laundry room (TL Maytags). A middle-eastern man was using a 2X4 to cram laundry into one of the machines! I had to leave promptly before I started screaming at him.

 

[appnut]

OK, I have my 3.1 cu. ft. Fridgemore.  My pants size is 40 to 42 x 30.  I can comfortably get 5 or 6 pair of Dockers type of slacks in my washer.  Anymore than that, it erally has a difficult time balancing and tangling is even worse.  the only way I can get more in there without it hving big balancing problems, is if I load the slacks like in a Unimatic, even more extreme actually.  I fold them over in half and then fold them up vertically so they're almost shaped like a pillow.  then I put them in the machine and they pretty much stay that way through the cycle.  My jeans are 42 or 44 X 30 (I like them loose).  I will be washing jeans tomorrow, 4 or 5 pair, and that's about maximum I feel like I SHOULD put in the machine given their weight and size. 

 

3Belt you are obviously a far smaller person in clothing dimension thatn myself.  I odn't think I could get 15 pair of my size jeans in your LG.  also, you look like you took some care and logical approach to placing all those jeans in the tub.  I have found that if you take your time and just don't stuff a whole bunch of stuff in there all at once, the machine balances easier. 

 

And congratulations everything came out clean, I know that load had various soil levels in all the jeans. 

 

Also, thank you for the videos. 

 

[launderess]

Cramming Commercial/Laundromat Front Loaders

Happens all the time at our local, and the 50lb Speed Queen at that.

This is quite annoying since it is the only reaons one goes to the place! *LOL*

Last few times it has always been the same bloddy stupid woman. According to the attendent she comes in with huge bin liners of stuff, and then proceeds to cram it all into that one washer. Both times damage was so great the bearings had to be pulled and replaced.

Upon hearing this story I'm like: "you let her do it the first time, what did you think was going to happen when she showed up and started over-loading the machine again? The attendents at this laundry will jump on anyone trying to start a wash near or after "last call", but yet they stand around and allow all sorts of "abuse to go on.

 

[mrb627]

Nonsense

Your numbers don't make sense.  We are talking about the same quantity of clothing washed on opposite sides of the pond.  Whether or not I wash in a smaller machine or a larger one.  If the quantity of clothing doesn't change, what is the difference? All the writeups I read on the Miele machines report that one of the first things the owner does is go into the programming and bypass the water efficiency of the machine for maximum fills.

 

 You are claiming that my machine is wasting energy.  I say hogwash.

 

A few years back, I invested in a set of Asko machines.  What a nightmare.  The average load took 90 minutes.  And it went through 5 deep rinses.  Compared to the two rinses on my current American machine.  Talk about wasteful...

 

Malcolm

 

[retromania]

I'm with Neptunebob. I think you should divide the load. My Bosch HE machine does better if I don't jam pack it even if it is within the clothes weight limit.

 

[hoover1100]

I think you should divide the load. My Bosch HE machine doe

Just goes to show dosen't it.

The way the machine 3beltwesty has posted is loaded is considered underloaded in our machines.

But even the cheapest machines sold here don't flinch at it!

 

[appnut]

You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed

Personally, I wouldn't think of washing a load like that with varios fiber weights and such.  I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together.  Everything would dry unevenly.  I wash & dry how a Sears repair man told a neighbor to wash and dry so thihngs dry evenly and don't under or over dry, even with electronic sensor dryers.  Wash & dry similar weight items together.  t-thirs (undershirts) and other undergarments dry at a lower heat and dry at a different rate than towels.  and sheets dry fairly quickly compared to most anything else in my laundry piles.