WHAT would YOU do?

[johnb300m]

@william8 he must have me on “ignore”
Sigh….

 

[william8]

@william8 he must have me on “ignore”
Sigh….

HE claims I am. But he replied a couple times after that.
No loss.

 

[mattl]

I guess I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I have a smart home, last time i checked I have 75+ items connected to my router, wifi and hard wired - lights, window/door sensors, motion sensors, thermostat, smart TVs, audio systems and on and on. All powered by a smart meter that I take great advantage of with time of day usage. Having Parkinson's my days and nights are flipped so I do laundry, dishes and much cooking/baking using the lowest rates, have my EV set to charge after 11PM too. Have Amazon echos all over the house, makes it easy to turn things on and off and adjust the temp. I'M 71 and don't have a big enough ego to think anyone cares how or when I do things, or what I watch or read online.

 

[phillymatt53]

I guess I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I have a smart home, last time i checked I have 75+ items connected to my router, wifi and hard wired - lights, window/door sensors, motion sensors, thermostat, smart TVs, audio systems and on and on. All powered by a smart meter that I take great advantage of with time of day usage. Having Parkinson's my days and nights are flipped so I do laundry, dishes and much cooking/baking using the lowest rates, have my EV set to charge after 11PM too. Have Amazon echos all over the house, makes it easy to turn things on and off and adjust the temp. I'M 71 and don't have a big enough ego to think anyone cares how or when I do things, or what I watch or read online.

So sorry to hear about your Parkinsons, a longtime friend of mine was diagnosed with it a few months ago, he 78.
However, sometime last year I noticed a gradual change in his demeanor.
He started being stubborn about some things, and always sounding negative about normal things, like shopping, everyday chores, etc.
He had other medical issues as well, a hip operation, afib, etc. which didn't help his attitude, and I tried to suggest a more positive way for his thinking about stuff.
My niece, a nurse, claims it's likely due to all the medications he has to take, along with the Parkinsons, affecting his judgement and reasoning.
He's now distanced himself from his friends, ignoring things.

As for me, at 72, I feel lucky that I've gotten this far with just the usual "old man's" aches and pains stuff.
However, I insist on my privacy and independence when it comes to all that technology that's caused much of society to depend on it.
I'm able to keep a "dumb house" with dumb appliances and be in control of things.

 

[mattl]

I've been diagnosed with essential tremor along with Parkinsonian syndrome, std. P meds don't help me in any way. Taking only a few things, no other health issues, so in that way I'm lucky. Sorry to hear about your friend, sounds like he is having a harder time with his P.

I've always enjoyed tech, built a Heathkit 25" color tv as a kid, big into audio and later video - still am.

 

[donprohel]

Please don't bark at the wrong tree.

The problem is not the devices, the Ethernet connection, the WiFi or the Bluetooth. The problem is what use is made of the data collected.

Smart electricity meters are a good example: I have no objections if they are used to exactly bill my consumption and optimise the management of the electric distribution network (which is more and more important because electricity production is becoming more "distributed", think of solar panels being installed on homes).

What I firmly object is that the data of my consumption, together with all the other data collected, are sold and aggregated together to "profile" and manipulate me.

And the proof is that in the European Union we are trying to regulate the use of personal data (just trying, unfortunately...) and the big American company are trying in any possible way, and with the willing help of the current administration, to force us to withdraw even the little regulation we have.

Regulating the use of personal data does not mean that smart meters are forbidden, what is forbidden is to sell the data of individual consumption to profile and manipulate people

 

[william8]

Please don't bark at the wrong tree.

The problem is not the devices, the Ethernet connection, the WiFi or the Bluetooth. The problem is what use is made of the data collected.

Smart electricity meters are a good example: I have no objections if they are used to exactly bill my consumption and optimise the management of the electric distribution network (which is more and more important because electricity production is becoming more "distributed", think of solar panels being installed on homes).

What I firmly object is that the data of my consumption, together with all the other data collected, are sold and aggregated together to "profile" and manipulate me.

How can they manipulate you by knowing how much electricity you use. They knew that long before smart meters existed. And who would buy it, how would they manipulate you by knowing your electricity usage? I'm genuinely curious. That meter has no way of knowing what you are using the energy for.

Before smart meters, they had to have employees manually read the meters, that cost money. That is the main purpose, it may even save YOU money.

 

[donprohel]

How can they manipulate you by knowing how much electricity you use. They knew that long before smart meters existed. And who would buy it, how would they manipulate you by knowing your electricity usage? I'm genuinely curious. That meter has no way of knowing what you are using the energy for.

Before smart meters, they had to have employees manually read the meters, that cost money. That is the main purpose, it may even save YOU money.

The point is not only "how much" energy you use, but also "when" you use it: this is a piece of personal information that, combined with other pieces collected somewhere else, would allow to "profile" you, which means understanding your psychology, what you think, what you believe, what you want and what you fear, and on this basis it is possible to send messages aimed exactly at you and leveraging on your personality to make you believe or do what "someone else" wants (see the personalised messages on Facebook, which disappear after having been seen by the addressee and do not leave any trace, like a hidden and heavily personalised political campaign).

And sure: the electricity companies save on the personnel to read the meter, but then they can also earn money by selling the data collected by the meters to "data aggregators" that buy other data from other sources and then "profile" you.

And it's a diabolically effective method

 

[me]

I'm continually mystified by the aversion/suspicion toward WiFi-connected/enabled devices. Would it be eliminated if the devices were hard-wired/Ethernet instead of wireless? If not, then the basis of the objection is networking of them, not specifically WiFi as the connection method.

Bluetooth is extremely localized networking between individual devices ... it doesn't require WiFi or Internet access, although it can be used to share Internet access from a device that has it to another that doesn't.

What I "do" is what works for me. I have two desktop computers on Ethernet in the office room in which resides the cable modem and network router (separate devices). Two desktop computers on WiFi in another room vs. running Ethernet to that room. The TV in my bedroom has both Ethernet and WiFi capability ... but there's no Ethernet in the bedroom, so WiFi is it. The ancient plasma panel doesn't have Ethernet or WiFi (or a tuner for that matter), nor is there Ethernet at the equipment location in the family room, so the workable choice for it is a (WiFi) Roku on an HDMI-->component video converter.

I don't as-yet have any WiFi-capable household appliances (except the HVAC thermostat). I would use the capability or not if I did have them as per the benefit to me. Bluetooth connects the soundbar in the bedroom to its subwoofer, and occasionally (not on every drive) my iPhone to the car audio system.

I'd welcome having wifi on my appliances, all mine are too old, although I do have the dishwasher plugged into a wifi enabled plug which replaced a time-plug which didn't keep time as accurately and I'd have to bend over and fiddle about with when I needed to turn it on during the day. I do have one or two wifi enabled CCTV cameras and bluetooth thermometers.

Main issues with wifi / internet enabled devices are potential security issues with either the device or the software platform/server provided by the manufacturer, the manufacturer could disable or change features via remote software updates, and collecting data on the owner's usage. However, if those are concerns they could be connected to a separate subnet and blocked from accessing the internet, while still providing local network access (although some may insist on internet access to work via their app), and if required use a secure tunnel/vpn running on your own router for remote access from your phone.

I managed to create a hack to gain remote shell access for one of my cctv cameras for example and I wouldn't trust the security of the manufacturer's platform with remote access, so they are isolated from the internet on their own subnet.

Also with bluetooth, your neighbours and passers buy could work out some of the equipment you own, for example one neighbour has a large screen samsung TV and an expensive VR headset, which I suppose might be useful information to a passing thief. And as I flashed alternate firmware and have disabled the encryption on my bluetooth thermometers, my neighbours could monitor the temperature of my bedroom.

 

[DADoES]

The point is not only "how much" energy you use, but also "when" you use it: this is a piece of personal information that, combined with other pieces collected somewhere else, would allow to "profile" you, which means understanding your psychology, what you think, what you believe, what you want and what you fear, and on this basis it is possible to send messages aimed exactly at you and leveraging on your personality to make you believe or do what "someone else" wants (see the personalised messages on Facebook, which disappear after having been seen by the addressee and do not leave any trace, like a hidden and heavily personalised political campaign).

And sure: the electricity companies save on the personnel to read the meter, but then they can also earn money by selling the data collected by the meters to "data aggregators" that buy other data from other sources and then "profile" you.

And it's a diabolically effective method

What are some specific examples of data related to psychology, beliefs, fears, and wants that can be determined from monitoring of electrical usage?

This is the data I can see from the Smart Meter that the utility placed on my house: 13-month history, current unbilled, past 24 hrs (15-min intervals). Red, blue and black lines reference outdoor temperature ... high, low, average ... I don't know what is their source for the readings.

Tell me what information you can glean from it. For example, what caused the usage spike at 1:30 am this morning?

 

[phillymatt53]

The point is not only "how much" energy you use, but also "when" you use it: this is a piece of personal information that, combined with other pieces collected somewhere else, would allow to "profile" you, which means understanding your psychology, what you think, what you believe, what you want and what you fear, and on this basis it is possible to send messages aimed exactly at you and leveraging on your personality to make you believe or do what "someone else" wants (see the personalised messages on Facebook, which disappear after having been seen by the addressee and do not leave any trace, like a hidden and heavily personalised political campaign).

And sure: the electricity companies save on the personnel to read the meter, but then they can also earn money by selling the data collected by the meters to "data aggregators" that buy other data from other sources and then "profile" you.

And it's a diabolically effective method

Being retired now, and 72, I'm "targeted" from numerous directions.
My home mailbox, my internet E-mail, my home phone, not to mention including the tv and radio that I listen to.

**Organizations always offering to buy my home, others offering to put me in a "senior living" community.....
**All sorts of drugs tossed at me for illnesses that I don't have.....
**Utility companies offering to give me a free home energy efficiency inspection....
The list is endless....!
Granted, we've always had "junk mail" in our mailboxes.
And today's world is now even more annoying with computer database auto-dialers calling us up repeatedly with a robot or some some foreign-sounding stooge trying to scam us and get our personal information.

Being quite intelligent, focused, and I'll admit, stubborn, I'm not one who wants to deal with all that marketing crap.
It all smells of Greed, and quite annoying.