When did Maytag start to go bad?

[DADoES]

At one point, the administration changed my roster to put me in "typing class".
I bitched and groaned about that, told my mom, and managed to get out of it.
I had no interest of being some kind of "secretary" in the future.
I wanted to use my hands, my brain, to follow my passions.

I had two years of typing (helpful for computer usage), placed 1st at district UIL competition, 4th at regional so didn't go to state. I did go to state in science, tied for 4th or 5th IIRC. Also placed at district in journalism headline writing (which I thought was kinda off-the-wall ... the class was small so everyone who didn't outright refuse was tapped for competition in something).

 

[pstehle]

I would say the year was 1997 with the introduction of the Neptune washer. Then things really got bad after Whirlpool gained for control of them in 2006. Once the Whirlpool architecture was fully integrated that was the end of Maytag reliability.

 

[pstehle]

I would say the year was 1997 with the introduction of the Neptune washer. Then things really got bad after Whirlpool gained for control of them in 2006. Once the Whirlpool architecture was fully integrated that was the end of Maytag reliability.

Whirlpool, once a peer of Maytag and building nearly as good equipment, has systematically destroyed most of the brands we knew. They own nearly all the remaining US brands apart from Speed Queen and Frigidaire, you get more or less the same guts no matter what the sticker on top says. Part of the sacrifice in quality and reliability is due to chasing profits, you can't run any business losing money. The 2nd ingredient is interference by the EPA. Can't use any water, can't use any power, gotta make a profit, so we have plastic transmission gears in a tin housing, with a clock motor to shift into spin, all hanging from a few strands of "baling wire" from a tin housing. As long as they last through the warranty, job done. The Neptune washer and it's "drum splitter" cohort dryer probably was the coffin nail that enabled Whirlpool's purchase of Maytag. Then we got "Maytag" fridges built on a Magic Chef line, about as well made as a 1980's Norge washer.

I just picked up a Speed Queen TR3, built about as well as a Maytag from the 1970's. They have their shortcomings, but I can still have a decent fill, and it's as heavy as a Sherman tank. If I could find a belt-drive Whirlpool that isn't rusting out, that would be a good second choice, but just about all have been sent to China on scrap metal ships.

 

[vacerator]

Was the Neptune released to compete with the first Whirlpool Duet? Whirlpool sourced it from Bauknecht in Germany. Was it a market test before investing in a domestic design? Was Maytag trying to swim rather than sink amongst it's competitor?

 

[DADoES]

Was the Neptune released to compete with the first Whirlpool Duet? Whirlpool sourced it from Bauknecht in Germany. Was it a market test before investing in a domestic design? Was Maytag trying to swim rather than sink amongst it's competitor?

Neptune was in 1997. The WP Duet was in 2001 (and KM HE3).

 

[Chetlaham]

To answer the question in this thread: around 1995 when they released the performas. That was officially the beginning of the end. Performa, Norge, and Amana designs should never have been produced by Maytag.

 

[combo52]

Maytag load sensor agitator with orbital transmission is a superior washing action to the old power fin agitator with the Pittman transmission.

Now, if they had just improved the suspension and added three more springs, gotten rid of the off-balance switch, put larger holes in the wash basket and gone to a neutral drain And self leveling rear feet. They actually would’ve had a washing machine worth owning.

Because I’m a technician I’m not worried about ultimate reliability. I always value performance above ultimate reliability and because I’m a technician I am not gonna put up with inferior performing products.

John L

 

[maytag85]

Some people can hem and haw all they want about better performing machines, time usually filters out certain designs which have not stood the test of time.

As someone who’s had experience with both the PowerFin and Load Sensor, the PowerFin by far has more aggressive washing action compared to the Load Sensor.

As long as you don’t jam the machine full, won’t have a problem with anything getting damaged. Always utilize the gentle wash with fast spin to make things last an eternity.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

A Maytag with a pitman transmission and a PowerFin agitator washes well, rinses well, and extracts well. At the same time, it's the most durable washing automatic washing machine ever made.

What's not to like?

 

[Chetlaham]

A Maytag with a pitman transmission and a PowerFin agitator washes well, rinses well, and extracts well. At the same time, it's the most durable washing automatic washing machine ever made.

What's not to like?

If everyone were like me, the Maytag Dependable Care would be in 90% of all Laundry rooms, OPLs and commercial top applications. There would be agitator variants like the Power Fin, load sensor, ramp and other design variants. Possibly both Pitman and Orbital transmissions based on the model. But the rest like the two transmission options, suspension, seals, cabinet, pump ect would remain unchanged. The motor would be beefed up to around 1 HP high locked torque with a 1.15 service factor and there is physical room in the cabinet to do that. Metal timer, heavy duty 7.5/15 amp inductive make/break switches. Eaton style water valves.

No shorting lid switch, though there might be two lid switches for safety. Control panel design updates of course.

 

[vacerator]

Maytag Neptune debuted in 1997. First Whirlpool (Bauknecht) acquired and sourced Energy star front load washer was 1998. Duet 2001.

 

[Chetlaham]

I'll say this since it is the forum to say it. One thing I often dream about and persistently fantasize about is walking into a 2025 appliance store with 90% of the top load washers being Dependable Cares with various agitators and control panel designs under various names like Kenmore, Maytag Atlantis, Maytag Performa, Maytag Dependable Care, Magic Chef, Amana, Jenn-Air, Modern-Maid, Caloric, Norge, Sun-Beam, Admiral, Dixie-Narco, Inglis, SunRay ect.

Also Maytag Neptune front loads with EM timer, 2/16 PSC motors, heaters and stainless steel outer tubs.

With few wanting anything else in that vision.

One can dream, but reality sure does hurt. Whirlpool could easily mass produce the Dependable Cares in a state of the art factory, but sadly no one is demanding it in large enough numbers to make that a reality. If people only knew, if people only had self preservation.

 

[bajaespuma]

I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.

 

[phillymatt53]

So....
I'm learning about those nicknames for some washer parts...
So... my washer's got that "Power Fin" agitator huh?
Nice to know.

Also, is my 1985 A482 considered one of those "Dependable Care" machines?

 

[Chetlaham]

So....
I'm learning about those nicknames for some washer parts...
So... my washer's got that "Power Fin" agitator huh?
Nice to know.

Also, is my 1985 A482 considered one of those "Dependable Care" machines?

Absolutely, your 1985 A482 is indeed a dependable care and truly the best, greatest washer ever built. Anything else is throwing your money away. Nothing will outlast it or take better care of your clothes. Or rinse just as nicely.

It is very painful for me that the dependable cares were discontinued. When I learned that they were officially no more I knew the appliance industry had officially become a lost cause. I remember reading the discussions on here 10 years ago with members saying how Whirlpool might mass produce the DC right before the buyout. If everyone was like me that would have been a reality.

 

[Chetlaham]

I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.

I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.


This is also an example of exactly how and why Maytag went under. People saw giant tubs, plentiful cycles and fancy styling at a reasonable looking price and bought them without hesitation. Only to then become outraged when the house filled with smoke or water 3 years latter. Word spread, Maytag lost sales, it was over.

I remember telling them that not all Maytag appliances were bad, the genuine dependable cares were still the best out there but nobody was willing to listen. Everyone's thinking was binary, all or nothing. Either all Maytags were good or all Maytags were bad. No grey scale reasoning or anything in between. And we all know that line of thinking isn't just centered around appliances. Back then people not only had zero technical reasoning but also seemed to be afraid of what the parts looked like inside a machine. In advertising, in literature, in sales, ect there was a complete technical blackout beside Maytag's clear front DC panel. And this arrogance in people to reject any depth beyond the visible surface. 'I don't care what a center switch thing is'.


Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.

 

[pstehle]

I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.


This is also an example of exactly how and why Maytag went under. People saw giant tubs, plentiful cycles and fancy styling at a reasonable looking price and bought them without hesitation. Only to then become outraged when the house filled with smoke or water 3 years latter. Word spread, Maytag lost sales, it was over.

I remember telling them that not all Maytag appliances were bad, the genuine dependable cares were still the best out there but nobody was willing to listen. Everyone's thinking was binary, all or nothing. Either all Maytags were good or all Maytags were bad. No grey scale reasoning or anything in between. And we all know that line of thinking isn't just centered around appliances. Back then people not only had zero technical reasoning but also seemed to be afraid of what the parts looked like inside a machine. In advertising, in literature, in sales, ect there was a complete technical blackout beside Maytag's clear front DC panel. And this arrogance in people to reject any depth beyond the visible surface. 'I don't care what a center switch thing is'.


Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.

If there's a $5 "spiff" on a particular turd, I know salesmen who'll flog that baby to the bitter end, no matter how bad it is.

 

[maytag85]

I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.

I kindly beg to differ, the Maytag HOH dries blankets more evenly than the SOH since the SOH has a tendency to ball things up. Since I’ve replaced the thermostats on my Maytag HOH franken dryer, is actually fairly quick and gentle. Even put in a 180F thermostat in for the high limit safety thermostat awhile back for experimenting purposes, dried a large load of towels quite fast, the drying speed was on par with a Maytag SOH.

With some tweaking and so forth, Maytag HOH’s can actually be quite fast.

 

[DADoES]

So....
I'm learning about those nicknames for some washer parts...
So... my washer's got that "Power Fin" agitator huh?
Nice to know.

Also, is my 1985 A482 considered one of those "Dependable Care" machines?

Power-Fin and Dependable Care are legitimate Maytag marketing terms, not nicknames.

 

[phillymatt53]

I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.

Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.

Unfortunately, this is the reality that the world is having to deal with.
It's like the corporations involved are some sort of bizarre evil devils trying to make people nuts, and brainwash them into crippled puppets with little to no powers to do anything but comply.
And on top of that, having to keep putting money out for yet another crappy, mediocre appliance.
I've joked on occasion and said that it seems we're living in some form of "The Twilight Zone", but truth be told, the state that we're in isn't far off.

I sensed this coming, years ago, when us guys at the small but busy repair shop started to get products in for repairs that wern't that old, or poorly designed, as opposed to "vintage" products.
And for us in that small neighborhood shop, it became increasingly difficult to render service on these "new" products.
Some parts were only available through the manufacturers, and at high costs, including shipping.
We knew our days were numbered.
This is why during the last 15 years, I undertook to advertizing repairs on vintage equipment, which gained us a foothold on keeping busy and food on our tables.
But sadly, the owner took ill, heart problems, and I had to manage the place, cut some employees, and pray that I could make it to retirement age.

Thank you, Big Box Stores, for forcing me to deal with this modern technology and the stress that comes with it.