Which Miele dishwasher?

[krisirl]

This may seem silly but I was set on getting the Miele G6410SC dishwasher but the G4920BK seems every bit as good. Albeit it has less features, but would I really miss them on a day to day basis?! One major benefit I guess is the in-door salt reservoir but that alone is not worth the extra cash. Oh and I prefer the cutlery basket to the tray. Any advice?

http://www.miele.co.uk/dishwashers/G-4920-BK-Brilliant-White-573/

http://www.miele.co.uk/dishwashers/G-6410-SC-Brilliant-White-590/

 

[foraloysius]

If noise is an issue, for instance in an open kitchen or a country kitchen, you should go for the more expensive model, with the possibility to use the 38dB programme, the noise difference is quite significant.

I noticed there is more cashback on the more expensive model, so the price difference is a bit smaller.

I like the cutlery tray. I have a G4210SC, had to get used to the tray, but in the end I think I prefer it over a basket. Loading is a bit more of a hassle, but unloading goes faster. And cutlery never spoons.

That said, you can live very well with a basic Miele dishwasher.

 

[henene4]

The more up-line one...

... is more efficent.

... has a variable pressure pump (thus the option to increase the pressure in the lower basket).

... it has a further option to reduce energy usage, including a cycle that dosen't use any heating which is usefull if you hook it up to hot water.

... it has AutoOpen drying (perfect if you start a DW in the morning and come back in the evening; you get the pefect flash drying each time, either you are there to open the DW or not).

... has a maintanance wash.

... is more silent.

... has the salt container in the door.

I guess, that should help your decision. Features I would miss are the AutoOpen drying, saltcontainer inside the door and the lower basket intensive option (usefull for everyday loads; pots and pans get clean while cups and glases are washed with normal intensity.

 

[henene4]

Few things I forgot

1. Usually, you can just buy a cuttlery basket via the Miele service (sometimes, they'll give it out for free). This way, you can try out both. You can use both for cuttlery, you can take out the tray, you can stay with it, or, as I hearead from someone, you can keep the tray installed and use it for something like lightly soiled backing trays.

2. You can add a pre-soak or pre-wash via the settings on the more up-line one. May be handy.

3. Though not that obvious, the more up one should have the better lower basket. One of the major improvements AFAIK is that you can take out the grating in the back 2/3 of the basket (you know, that area that makes Miele so special while loading) and create a really big, 100% flat area. Really nice for lots of pots and pans.

 

[krisirl]

That's a really good point - the G6410 has lots of wine glass storage in the lower rack! Thanks for pointing that out

I think it's worth spending a little extra and going for the better model

 

[vacbear58]

G4920BK

Kris

Actually I have recently bought a G4920BK in stainless steel, which replaced a G646SC from 2002.

I LOVE IT!!!!

In spite of being a basic model it has a good selection of programmes and all seem to work well - time saver option on all of them too and a delay start can be programmed - great for me as I have solar panels so I can set it to come on in the early hours while nothing else is running. All programmes seem to work fine (everything has been spotless)and it has a 75C intensive wash where the max on the 646 was 65C.

The 646 had a cutlery tray and I was a bit dismayed to find that this one did not. But do you know, the basket is fine. There are slots all around the edge so you can sort spoons and forks just as you would in the tray and in my new kitchen the cutlery drawer is further away from the dishwasher than before so it is really convenient to just lift out the basket and take it over to the drawer.

The extra space above the top basket is so useful. Wine glasses were always a challenge in the G646, no longer a problem. The top rack can be raised or lowered independently on each side but even with it lowered on one side there is still room for my large dinner plates below it.

It is very quiet in operation, with everything off in the kitchen you can just hear it but once the radio is on or even when the central heating boiler cuts in you cannot hear it at all so, if you have an open plan situation I would say you would have no problem at all.

I can 100% recommend it and I don't think I would choose another model over it, I am completely satisfied with it.

Al

 

[krisirl]

Hi Al.

Thanks for the info and the pics. Very impressed with the dishwasher. Think the G4920 will suit me fine. Very glad to hear you are so happy with it.

Kris

 

[henene4]

Have made your mind up yet?

Not wanting to doubt you, but you changed yor mind 3 times within this thread.

Spending this much money, I'd really consider thinking a bit longer.
Best, analyze how you use your DW right now, which loads you wash. Do you wash a lot at night? Or a lot of clumbsy items? Or plastics? Lots of heavy soil? Or even, do you have simmilar loads each time or do your loads differ much?

Thinking about it another way: You will buy this dishwasher for the next 10+ years of use. Do you think any feature might come in handy any point in the future?

I guess both models will work pefectly fine. But seeing your struggels on what to get, you might wan to wait a bit longer, for more opinions, ,aybe look at both models in a store, or ask a partner, relative or such.

 

[washer111]

One thing I've noticed between older Miele's (going back at least a decade or more) is they still have the same design as they do today. Now, I'm all for efficiency, and making the most of what you've got, but sometimes change is good!

I found the Miele's lower basket to be a bit restrictive in terms of loading, compared to what I'm used to (Which is really a half-dishwasher). The upper-rack's tines seem too far apart, the ones on the lower rack are too short and too close together. Then there's that weird bit where the plates go, which is contoured to keep the apart. Loading anything that isn't flat and square/round (like a saucepan or larger) can be challenging for me.

The cutlery tray isn't something I like. Sure, I'm OCD about how a dishwasher is loaded, but you need uber-OCD to even think about loading a cutlery tray. One knife/fork/spoon/spork (etc) at a time. If you're with people who don't care... There goes any hope of cleaning performance.
At least the unloading aspect is quick, although I have always found that handles-up loading of stuff in a regular basket means you can grab the whole lot at once, and dump it in your kitchen draws quickly and easily.

I hate to have to bring the negatives into light, but someone has got to. I might suggest a more up-market model, in the hopes they actually have better racking than what I used (a G576 made somewhere in the last 15 years)

 

[vacbear58]

Racks

The racks in the G4920 are completely different to those in my 2002 G646 machine - there are pictures below are of it, albeit full of dishes. I actually find the G4920 somewhat more flexible and, although I have not actually tried it, it looks like the plate rack from the front is removable which they certainly were not in my old machine.

I liked the cutlery tray in the old machine and was always careful to sort out the cutlery while loading, if nothing else it saved sorting it afterwards. But, as you can see from my photos back up the thread you can be as OCD as you like even with the basket as you can sort spoons and forks round the edge of it, my knives are too big to fit in there, they have to go into the middle. And as I noted above, if your cutlery drawer is close to the dishwasher a third level rack fine but if not (and for a period of time while sorting out my kitchen the old DW was in the utility room) it can be a pain in the ass constantly walking back and forward between the two.

Looking at the two dishwashers Kris posted I am sure there are many features in the more expensive machine, but only Kris can decide if he would actually use them sufficiently to justify buying a machine almost twice the price - frankly I would be hard pressed to do so myself as the cheaper machine seems to produce perfectly good results - the dishes go in dirty and so far everything has come out perfectly clean.

All I can say is that I liked my old Miele and was satisfied with its operation, the G4920 was something of an impulse buy as it is stainless and therefore matches my (Miele) fridge/freezer but it seems to me that there has been considerable development in the 13 years between the two which makes me feel the new model is better than the old, even if it is further down the product line than the old one. And let us not forget that, even at £599 the G4920 is not a cheap dishwasher by any means.

And I do speak as someone who has actually used the G4920 - it is a somewhat sobering thought to me that, not only did I buy my first dishwasher before henene4 was born but actually before Kris himself was born too so I do have a bit of experience in the matter

Al

 

[countryguy]

I like the cutlery tray. Not only does it accomodate cutlery but also measuring spoons, smaller measuring cups, large utensils, soup ladles, etc. And with the full upper wash arm, it gets everything clean. When I have company, I insist that I be the only one that loads the dishwasher...the guests just put all the dishes on the counter and know to stay away from the dishwasher LOL

Gary

 

[foraloysius]

The Miele racks have been changed a few times in the last decades. They had to because the way the water was going to the upper spray arm changed too. There have been several changes of the bottom rack as well. The G646 didn't even have the plate guards etc. as you can see in Alistair's picture #1. So there were definitely changes.

Loading the cutlery tray might take a few seconds more, it all depends on how you do it. I collect all the cutlery on one plate and load it all together in the tray. I pick the knives first and put them at the back on the left side. Then the forks go in the middle and then the spoons at the front. Other stuff goes on the right side. Unloading is easier, because you already have the knives together and the same for the forks and the spoons. Not a big deal to have things thoroughly cleaned.

 

[henene4]

"I do have some more experince in that matter"

Well, older does neither mean better or smarter.

I actually hate it with passion if somebody states that argument. "But I am xx years older then you, so I have to know better!"
You don't. Simply, you don't. You can, but not because you are older. I probably know more about physics then you do. And I am younger then you. Why? Because my main occupation is study. School, Internet, etc. Age is by no means directly relatable to knowledge.

Oh, and, does a G5100SCU count?
Made these picks few months back while staying at a friend for 4 days.
I have to admitt, the loading needed some adaption, but once you knew that if something stood in there while loading, it won't move while washing, you got the turn.

Pic 1: Build-under, perfect stainless steal.
Pic 2: "Old" UI. Cycle layout is different by now. The display for some reason only displays the delay start. It is supposed to work while programming (water hardness, for example), but dosen't. It is not brroken, just not used for anything but delay timing. That load wasn't documented, but was even more packed, though, less soiled. Only 1 item did not come clean in this load, which was a Crepes-pan.
Pic 3-5: The lower basket of our party evening load. That grill plate should not have come clean. (Spoiler: It did.)
Pic 6: The stuff crammed under the grill plate.
Pic 7: Upper basket. Yes, these pans were just as heavly soiled as the plate. ("Spooiler, they did come clean.)
Pic 8. That's why I love the tray. Capacity. Not the fastest to use, but just gives so much more space for cuttlery and other stuff in the lower basket.
Pic 9: Big amount of Somat powder. Needed with all the burned on stuff like potatos.
Pic 10: Serial plate.
Pic 11: Running the Intensive cycle.

(Sorry for the bad quality. I shot them at 3am in a rush with my phone.)

 

[vacbear58]

Miele Dishwashers

@henene4

"I do have some more experience in that matter" - perhaps you would like to re-read what I actually posted .......

But yes, having used dishwashers for over 40 years (from when I was living with my parents) maybe I do have more experience - some of them were good and some not so good.

And in this instance I actually OWN one of the machines Kris posted about and recorded my honest opinion of it, not just sitting behind a computer screen expressing opinions on what the internet tells me. I have been using it for the last three months, I will use it again when I am at home at the weekend and I expect to be as pleased with it as I have been. Previously I used a three rack Miele for 13 years, I was always satisfied with it and am keeping it in my dishwasher collection, and recorded my honest opinion of a comparison of the two machines. Two machines that I actually USED myself. Can you say that?

I am sure the machine your friend has is excellent, I would expect nothing less from Miele. But it my experience that Miele quality exists at the bottom of the range just as much as at the top.

And yes, you are younger than me and in that you have the advantage. I hope you will live a long and happy life where you will experience many good and exciting things that I know I will not be here to enjoy myself.

I have given my opinion as an owner and user of one of the machines raised at the start of this thread - this is my final posting as I have nothing more to add to what I have already said.

Kris, I will be interested to read which machine you have actually chosen - no matter which one it is I hope you get a lot of good use from it.

Al

 

[henene4]

So, you say that I can't know a thing about these, though I used them (at least, dishwashers pretty darn simmilar), I saw every single rack configuration Miele offers, I used other dishwashers, and I know pretty much every single piece of literature?

It's not about keeping an old or buy a new, it's about up or down the line. You used a DW bought in the time I couldn't even write. Now, I'll start university next year (funny enough, I applied for dual study corses at 2 locations at Miele here in Germany; one haveing already invited me for a written application test in Bielefeld; but that's off topic). So does your old experience matter about up or down the line? Maybe not so much.

I used several DW; enough to say that a) the salt container in the door is worth its cost, b) AutoOpen relly helps if one runs the DW often while away and c) that with a Miele, if you try to fit as much in a DW as possible to run it at max capacity as often as possible, the racks more up the line make that easier.

 

[foraloysius]

The position of the salt container is totally unimportant if you don't use salt. And with my asthma I prefer a dishwasher that doesn't open itself. I prefer to open it only after I have turned on the hood, to vent out all the humidity. So those two features would never influence the decision of what model I would buy.

 

[foraloysius]

Now hang on...

Henrik,

Are you saying in your last message that we should value your opinion because you are going to university soon and will do two courses at Miele? Just checking if I understand you well.

 

[henene4]

Not quite

I always get that "You are to young to know" message on here. Maybe, those underestimate me in that matter. And so you all get it, I just wanted to show that 17 in the end is just a number.
Wasn't bragging at all. Just wanted you all to stop judging people by their backrounds as it seems to happen here a lot. No matter if that might be location, age, or even if they show their name on here.

I completly agree that some might not see the points I see about the better model. For you, the base model would be just as good.
But for me, they would be really a matter.
It's about the OP getting the best. And I just wanted to offer him my thoughts about the features.
In the end, he has to know if he dislikes the idea of AutoOpen, be it because of asthma, a child around or just because.
And especially with him changing his opinion with only 1 posts in the meantime, more thoughts are should be offered.

What I wanted to show the OP was that itt basicly comes down to his situation we can't completly acess.
Does he often have the typical not 100% dry dishes problem because of the door staying clised after a cycle end? If so, AutoOpen will help. If not, he won't need it.
Does he wash a lot of those odd loads like few plates, several bulky items, lots of cuttlerry and glasses? And on the other day, a more mixed load? Does he wash a lot of odd shaped or maybe delicate items? The he should go for the better racking.
Does he use salt and maybe has back problems or just hates to bend into the DW? Then the door salt compartment is perfect for him.

You can do an acessment on any feature myou get more. But the OP has to do it. That is also why I hate people say that their machine is perfect for them, and thus they can recomend it to someone else. Tjat person is not the someone else. If vacbear58 would have an AutoOpen DW, and he would recomend it to you, it would not be good at all, even though he vac would love it.

 

[krisirl]

Oops

Hi all. Thought I should jump in here.

I was just asking your opinion on two models I'm considering and I appreciate all input. Personally I think the G4920 is sufficient. It has the Miele build and wash quality I want (after using a terrible Servis dishwasher in a rented property) without the extra bells and whistles I may not need or use.

I have very soft water so I use combi tabs and no salt. As for Auto Open I'm not fussed. I do use a lot of wine glasses but it's not worth the extra €s just for that. I'm sure I can order the wine glass holders for the bottom basket.

I do like the idea of the solar save programme but I imagine I would mostly use the Sensor wash programme.