Which Miele W1?

[logixx]

I, too, can't confirm what Adam said on FB about all condensing dryers leaving a smell on clothes. Mine never did. You might have to experiment with softeners/scent beads to find the ones that will "survive" the dryer. Although, given the low temps on some of these cycles like Bed Linen, I suppose that shouldn't be much of a problem.

About that cycle: someone on YouTube tried it when it first came out. He had his T1 set to cool down to 104F and the cooling cycle never even had to come on. That's probably the reason you can't select Low Temp.

 

[henene4]

That new smell unfortunately takes a bit to come out.
The dryer dosen't get very hot, so that period where the heat drives of any residues takes longer.

On the topic of the bedding cycle: One thing I realized at least on mine is that it is the only cycle with a true integrated cool down cycle.
I only realised that recently: It cuts the heat pump and jumps to 5 min with the cooling fan on. I think the reason is that the regular cool down with the rotating animation on the 7 segment display can't reverse. While still in cycle, the bedding cycle keeps reversing even during that cool down.
I can say though that it really dosen't get hot either. Though that is the one cycle I tend to select extra dry on.

 

[littlegreeny]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm really happy to learn the smell from the dryer isn't permanent. It does reverse tumble a lot on the bed linen cycle. It also reverses on the normal cycle, but not nearly as much. I didn't watch it during the wrinkle free to see if it reversed. I will say it's pretty fast and finishes before the next load is done in the washer.

There were a few hiccups (getting the wifi/app setup complete and the dryer off gassing) and one load I must have used too much detergent that resulted in me running a total of 9 rinses but overall I am very pleased with the set.

 

[launderess]

May have things muddled, but seem to recall reading something ages ago that basically all laundry comes from condenser dryers slightly moist. Remaining moisture is carried off moments after things are taken from dryer, shaken out and folded.

May have stumbled across this from someplace explaining difference between vented and condenser dryers.

From one's limited use of the Lavatherm things don't emerge bone dry as say from Whirlpool or any other vented dryer. Warmish yes, but still with a tinge of moisture. After taking things out they finish off rather quickly once out in air.

 

[henene4]

To get that bone dry feeling you do have to overdry in condensers, yes.

Things do finish out just by shaking out for the most part, yes.

Heat pump dryers however have the benefit of being abled to drop relative moisture content below ambient.

The amount of moisture in the process air is dependent on how cold the air gets in the process.
The lower it gets, the less moisture the air can hold.

A vented dryer always has room air to work with, so the air in the laundry at the end of the cycle has the moisture content of the room the dryer is in.
Thus laundry mostly feels as dry as it actually is.

A normal condenser could theoretically only get as cold as room temp but in reality will always be quite a bit warmer than ambient.
So the air inside the laundry will contain more moisture by weight than the ambient air.
Thus the laundry feels moist even though the fabric itself is dry.
As soon as you exchange the air with room air, the fades away and the clothing feels as dry as it is.

A heat pump dryer can drop the relative moisture in the air really low since the cold side of the heat pump can get quite a bit below ambient.
But to take advantage of that, you'd have to really overdry the laundry.

 

[henene4]

On the topic of Mieles rinsing

Mieles never were amazing at rinsing. Not bad, just not outstanding.
Especially if you overdose they can take quite a bit of work to get to an acceptable rinse result.

I do find however that the higher water levels aren't needed on most loads.
All Mieles I used so far from the Novotronics up to the W1s only needed more water if a load was especially bulky or otherwise "special".

I can't really explain it by any reasoning, but they appear to be very efficient in rinsing while not being actually very good at it.
I like to describe their rinsing as "optimised". Does a fine jobs in most situations while being very frugal.

 

[littlegreeny]

Service Menu

I entered the service menu where there were all kinds of settings including adjusting the water plus option, turning on an allergy setting, and an option to increase the temperature which I believe is to enable a warm rinse! Can anyone confirm that?

What does the allergy setting do?

And yes, items out of the dryer have a bit of moistness but it's gone by the time the item is hung up or folded. Amazing!

 

[hippo]

@littlegreeny
The Water Plus option can only be selected in the nearly non-functional app, not on the touchscreen itself unfortunately, notwithstanding the adjustability in Programming Mode.

I believe that Temperature Increase increases the main wash temperature in some cycles by 5C. I suspect that these cycles don’t actually hit temperature to begin with and that the temperature increase setting gets them closer to the selected temperature. I’ve ordered a temperature probe I’m hoping will answer this question definitively. I’ll report when I’ve tested it.

Allergy and AllergyWash do different things. AllergyWash option on cycles seems to intensify the washing and then it adds a steam phase after the main wash and adds extra rinsing, sometimes one or two extra rinses. I haven’t tried the Allergy setting in Programming Mode but I suspect it just adds a standard extra rinse to some cycles.

A lot of clues regarding the functionality of the programming mode can be found in the technical service documentation for a different Miele model here: https://online.fliphtml5.com/jknmy/kxha/#p=1

 

[derrick352]

On the topic of Mieles rinsing

"Mieles never were amazing at rinsing. Not bad, just not outstanding.
Especially if you overdose they can take quite a bit of work to get to an acceptable rinse result."

I have to disagree with this statement. There is no better machine than a Miele at rinsing clothes. Most if not all American machines do not spin between rinses, do not completely drain a rinse before next rinse, and duration of each stepped rinse is pathetically short. Miele powders are extreme low suds and excellent at stain removal without the need for additives.

The revamped just released W1's may treat allergen setting differently now than previous models. On the WWF060 Allergen in secondary programming menu will give you an additional rinse in most cycles, and will maintain wash temp without fluctuation. I like to have a total 4 rinses for my laundry, gaining one with Allergen setting in programming mode and another using extra rinse. I do not use max water for rinsing but do use water plus at max amount 3 droplets in display.

No gripes about my machine other than a non functional "prewash" because Miele is pathetic and ignorant on every level when it comes to correcting service issues.

 

[littlegreeny]

Thanks Hippo and Derrick!

I am going to enable the allergy setting to see what it does in my machine and report back.

I used the app today to select and start a load and tried water plus and was very satisfied with the water level in the main wash. It's tempting to enable it for all cycles.

I also noticed American washers skip many intermediate spins and agree it's really important do an extraction between the wash and every rinse. So far I have been satisfied with the rinsing in the Miele, especially compared to my old Frigidaire. I tried the regular and max rinse levels and switched it back to the regular level as I felt it does just fine.

 

[tomdawg]

On the topic of Miele rinsing

I agree to some degree with henriks statement on Miele rinsing, but I would argue it does better than most American washers that don’t spin/drain all. My wand test pretty much tells me how well a rinse works in a machine. My LG 4370 rinses better in shorter time than Miele, only because I can select a towels cycle. going into the service menu on my Miele W4 selecting allergy option as well as water plus, I’m pretty happy with the results. Miele’s are much slower, but the performance overall is amazing!

 

[hippo]

If you do change the Water Plus level in settings please report back. I was under the impression it only changed the level when Water Plus was selected in the app. If it ALWAYS activates a higher water level that would be great since I wouldn’t have to use the terrible app.

 

[derrick352]

"water plus"

Water plus setting works different on W1's. Some people have a menu option in normal settings. Other W1's it is a setting in secondary programming menu. Water plus on some machines it is a water adjustment for wash and rinse water level in 3 increments such as my WWF060. If it is in your normal settings options, details of how it works should be in your manual. Sometimes there is an extra rinse etc when it is used. If confused I'm sorry...water plus is just not the same on each W1 and what it does for your specific machine.

I do know on my WWF060 I set the water plus in secondary programming menu, and it is a permanent setting until changed by user. I use the max setting 3 droplets displayed. Water plus feature for my washer does nothing than increase the water level for wash and rinse for every cycle. Max rinse level setting not related to this feature.

 

[derrick352]

"water plus"

Miele W1's in the USA...if there is nothing in your manual about water plus does not mean you do not have the feature or option to use it. You need to set it by accessing other programming menu. It will likely be similar to the WWF060 in how it works for every load. Miele eliminates information in our manuals on purpose, and yet a prewash function is in manual but useless. Fact is for those without a working prewash due to error when used, it will NEVER be fixed by Miele. They just don't care.

 

[littlegreeny]

Hippo

It's super easy to change the water plus level. You should try it.

 

[littlegreeny]

Water Plus

This is what it looks like in the programming menu on my machine.

 

[hippo]

While the WXR 860 WCS USA manual makes no mention of Water Plus and the option is only accessible through the app, Euro market manuals vary in how they describe the Water Plus Level setting.

While it seems that for derrick352’s WWF060 the setting is always active, the Euro market WCR 860 WCS’s (which has M Touch like the WXR 860) manual states “ Water plus level: There are four different water levels which can be selected for the Water plus Extra.” This seems to clearly indicate that for that machine the Water Plus Level setting only matters when Water Plus is selected for a cycle. But then again for the WCR 860 Water Plus can be selected on the touchscreen unlike the US-market WXR 860 where is can only be selected in the app. Hopefully somebody tests this in a reliable manner for the WXR 860 and can report.

 

[hippo]

@littlegreeny,
Thank you for the image. That’s what it looks like on mine too. Changing it is the easy part, figuring out exactly what it does in interaction with various cycles and options, if anything, is more challenging. I’ll attempt to test to see if I can tell a difference and report if I find anything.

 

[derrick352]

@littlegreeny

Neat pictures! It appears your water plus setting is like the WWF060 functionally. I suspect it increases water level by increment for both wash and rinse by cycle. Normal menu access is nice I bet.

 

[logixx]

I really wonder why Miele had to fuss with the menu in the first place. In Europe, Water Plus is in the same options menu like Soak, Extra Rinse etc. It's turned on and off like any other cycle option. The secondary menu is easily accessible by the user; it's where one selects how much water is added (20 to 50 mm).

 

[henene4]

20 to 50mm

Alex, are you sure about those numbers?

I only use water plus programmed as extra water when washing pillows and blankets, but every time I do, even with the highest setting, the amount of water it adds to the main wash seems more like 2-5 liters.

It might behave differently on the rinses, but since I always activate the max water level for rinsing aswell, I can't say.

On the topic of rinsing in general:

If the Mieles are so much better than anything else in the US, you are really missing out...

 

[launderess]

"I really wonder why Miele had to fuss with the menu in the first place. "

Have no way of being certain, but IIRC Miele USA ran into no end of problems when 30XX, 4XXX machines were introduced to North American market. These were machines with more options under the bonnet via menu selections than previous models.

Largely thanks to internet word got out about said menu options and people began messing about with options that they shouldn't. When changes caused issues or didn't do what customers expected many often couldn't reverse changes. So calls to Miele tech support were made to "diagnose" issue.

As one has frequently stated and many others agree MieleUSA tech support often has a rather interesting attitude that Americans don't understand German appliances. Thus whatever is "wrong" with washer cannot be happening unless owner has done something wrong or shouldn't. In this instance it was fiddling with menu options that perhaps meant for situations outside of USA or something.

Subsequent washer and dryers at least from Miele often eliminated or buried many menu options that easily are found say on European machines.

To be fair IIRC ever since Miele moved over to fully computer controlled washers and dryers (Novotronic?) there were ways to access service menu. Guess since internet was so wide spread then word didn't get out thus you needed a tech manual (or someone with access to same).



https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?72568

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?27942

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?86799_9

Consider also America is on average far more litigious society than many other countries. People here sue for any or every reason even when issues largely are their own fault.

[this post was last edited: 12/9/2021-05:23]

 

[logixx]

Henrik

These are only numbers I've got to quote. They are from a WTH120 combo.

 

[stephen]

@hippo

I have noticed that the app ALWAYS shows Water Plus as active even though I have confirmed I have that option set to Normal and not on.
I don’t think you can trust the app.

 

[littlegreeny]

Someone (Luna?) over on Houzz mentioned USA machines have water plus enabled as a default. I don't know if "Normal" under the water plus settings means it is indeed enabled or not.

 

[chachp]

Water Plus

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I am pretty sure on mine I could not set Water Plus to default.  I have to choose it on each load via the app.  For the most part though, I find I don't need the extra water.  I am getting really great results letting the washer pick the water level via the program and load.</span>

 

[derrick352]

"The secondary menu is easily accessible by the user"

Not here in the USA. To get to hidden secondary programming menu we have to go through a procedure of specific item selection, in order, on the screen to access it itself. Regular "Settings" menu here in the USA water plus does not exist as a setting, although now it seems it is on newer machines as in @littlegreeny's machine.

Lets just refer to settings menu as programming menu and hidden menu secondary programming menu.

 

[derrick352]

@chachp

Did you access hidden programming menu? It will be there!

 

[derrick352]

@littlegreeny

"Someone (Luna?) over on Houzz mentioned USA machines have water plus enabled as a default. I don't know if "Normal" under the water plus settings means it is indeed enabled or not."

exactly! It will appear no matter if on normal or not. Also to further confuse users that have no idea what it is because it's not in normal settings/programming menu period.

It is nice to just have it as set and forget on my WWF060. Just getting to that setting though may challenge some folks.

 

[jerrod_six]

IIRC there was an Energy Star regulation in the early 2000s that stated that if manufactures provided a visible option way to increase the water then that increased amount would be added to the water-energy usage rating. Even if a consumer never used the setting, Energy Star would consider that amount as used because the option was present. So perhaps this is why the water+ option does not easily appear as an option in the USA. Although the max rinse level is there it is still in the settings and only applies to the rinse. Given the above, I consider myself lucky to even get max rinse level.