derrick352
Well-known member
Good point @jerrod_six.
Which Miele W1?
- Thread starter littlegreeny
- Start date
Help Support :
Thanks again to Luna!
I found a post over on Houzz where Luna was talking about the plastic/chemical smell from the new dryer. It's from the foam plinth filter! He said it takes about 100 hours of running before the smell goes away. Anyone know how to speed that up? I'm not looking forward to when I'll need to replace that filter and go through this whole ordeal again!
I found a post over on Houzz where Luna was talking about the plastic/chemical smell from the new dryer. It's from the foam plinth filter! He said it takes about 100 hours of running before the smell goes away. Anyone know how to speed that up? I'm not looking forward to when I'll need to replace that filter and go through this whole ordeal again!
Dryer Smell and Water Plus
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Dryer Smell - It makes sense that it could be the plinth filter but it's odd. I didn't have that issue when mine was new. You might try soaking it for a few minutes in a solution of dish soap and water. Then squeeze it out and let it dry. That's how I clean mine when it needs to be done. Maybe that will speed it up a little.</span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Water Plus - I am interested in knowing why so much chatter about the Water Plus. I guess my question is why do you think you need to use it? I get stellar results out of my machine without the Water Plus. I used it once to see how much water it would use but I really don't see where I have a situation where I need the extra water to get the clothes clean. I just let the machine do its thing with determining how much water it needs. </span>
[this post was last edited: 12/10/2021-06:11]
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Dryer Smell - It makes sense that it could be the plinth filter but it's odd. I didn't have that issue when mine was new. You might try soaking it for a few minutes in a solution of dish soap and water. Then squeeze it out and let it dry. That's how I clean mine when it needs to be done. Maybe that will speed it up a little.</span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Water Plus - I am interested in knowing why so much chatter about the Water Plus. I guess my question is why do you think you need to use it? I get stellar results out of my machine without the Water Plus. I used it once to see how much water it would use but I really don't see where I have a situation where I need the extra water to get the clothes clean. I just let the machine do its thing with determining how much water it needs. </span>
[this post was last edited: 12/10/2021-06:11]
Thanks Ralph!
I wonder if adding a little baking soda to the soaking solution would help?
I'm VERY happy with the default water levels in the wash portion of the cycle. And I've found the default rinse levels to be good too. I have not made any adjustments to the water levels. I just thought it was interesting that the option was available in the programming menu.
I wonder if adding a little baking soda to the soaking solution would help?
I'm VERY happy with the default water levels in the wash portion of the cycle. And I've found the default rinse levels to be good too. I have not made any adjustments to the water levels. I just thought it was interesting that the option was available in the programming menu.
launderess
Well-known member
Water plus/Maximum Water level, extra rinses, Sensitive, etc... in some form or another are offered by most European front loaders along with others.
Basically they are meant to allow certain modifications of water levels in wash and or rinse cycles, or adding extra rinse(s) to cope with various wants of a particular customer within limits.
Since these machines are sold all over Europe, North America and elsewhere they must cope with water quality (hardness) that cannot always accurately be predicted.
Water in many areas of USA (such as New York) tends to be far softer than what you'd see in many parts of EU. Soft water can complicate rinsing. Ditto if a home or wherever machine is used has a mechanical water softening system installed.
Miele or others also cannot account for detergents and other products used on wash day. Some things rinse more easily than others. This and or consumer may be prone to using more than they should. Certain households may have one or more members prone to sensitivity regarding detergent or other laundry product residue, thus want things rinsed more.
At least for Miele Water + seems to be for coping with loads that absorb lots of water.
Modern computer controlled washers will only use water levels as programmed within certain parameters. Someone mentioned their washer having so little water during a cycle the recirculating pump was running "dry". Well if washer is programed to give "X" liters of water max for "Y" pounds or kilos of wash, that is what happens. Water Plus moves that needle for two more preset levels in aid of solving that problem.
With machines of old one could simply pour a kettle or so of water down dispenser to raise water levels. Nearly all modern washers have various water protection systems. If levels in tub go above what is programmed machine senses this, believes something is very wrong, aborts cycle and drains water. You can still try that method, but there is no way of knowing where "sweet spot" lies before triggering WPS.
Manual for my older Miele suggests washing less than full loads when doing very absorbent loads such as terry toweling.
Basically they are meant to allow certain modifications of water levels in wash and or rinse cycles, or adding extra rinse(s) to cope with various wants of a particular customer within limits.
Since these machines are sold all over Europe, North America and elsewhere they must cope with water quality (hardness) that cannot always accurately be predicted.
Water in many areas of USA (such as New York) tends to be far softer than what you'd see in many parts of EU. Soft water can complicate rinsing. Ditto if a home or wherever machine is used has a mechanical water softening system installed.
Miele or others also cannot account for detergents and other products used on wash day. Some things rinse more easily than others. This and or consumer may be prone to using more than they should. Certain households may have one or more members prone to sensitivity regarding detergent or other laundry product residue, thus want things rinsed more.
At least for Miele Water + seems to be for coping with loads that absorb lots of water.
Modern computer controlled washers will only use water levels as programmed within certain parameters. Someone mentioned their washer having so little water during a cycle the recirculating pump was running "dry". Well if washer is programed to give "X" liters of water max for "Y" pounds or kilos of wash, that is what happens. Water Plus moves that needle for two more preset levels in aid of solving that problem.
With machines of old one could simply pour a kettle or so of water down dispenser to raise water levels. Nearly all modern washers have various water protection systems. If levels in tub go above what is programmed machine senses this, believes something is very wrong, aborts cycle and drains water. You can still try that method, but there is no way of knowing where "sweet spot" lies before triggering WPS.
Manual for my older Miele suggests washing less than full loads when doing very absorbent loads such as terry toweling.
Science.
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Who ever thunk there would be so much science involved in doing laundry?</span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Who ever thunk there would be so much science involved in doing laundry?</span>
@chachp
While I agree with littlegreeny that water levels are usually good in the WXR 860 I would enjoy the Water Plus option in the following situations:
1. Extremely heavily soiled laundry, like with hydraulic oil or grease. More water really helps dissolve the soils in this situation.
2. For more delicate washing of certain fabrics. The WXR 860 behaves very differently than my previous Miele on the Delicate cycle. It uses barely any water, none visible in the drum, and spins them very quickly so they mostly stick to the drum for a little bit, then fall down, then repeat. The recirculation pump is occasionally active during this. The previous machine used a high fill for Delicates so that the lifter bars would swirl the laundry around but not really lift and drop it. I think that the latter is gentler and more effective and I miss it. If you enable the "Gentle" option in the Delicates cycle it defeats the rapid spinning but doesn't use enough water to let the lifter bars pass under the laundry. Thus I think the Gentle option actually makes the Delicates cycle rougher as there is a lot more lifting and dropping of the laundry and surprisingly aggressive agitation on rinsing. The same comments apply to the Dress Shirts cycle. I have not tested Water Plus from the app yet with the delicates cycle but hopefully it would behave more like my old machine.
More generally I suppose there is some aggravation that Miele has omitted a feature that is quite widespread on their Euro machines on their TOL USA model, which in particular comes at a premium cost for greater customizability via the touchscreen. Although according to Jerrod_Six it might just be due to regulations, sadly.
I played around a little with Water Plus in the programming menu and app a little bit, although not enough yet for a holistic picture. I found that changing the "Water Plus Level" in the programming menu from Normal to three drops had no effect on the wash fill level for empty loads started from the touchscreen for Wrinkle Free and Darks. Selecting the Water Plus option on the app for the Wrinkle Free program did result in a much higher wash water level. The machine started the cycle normally and then several minutes into the cycle increased the water level substantially. I cancelled the test programs before observing rinses. I did not notice a change in the wash water level for the Darks program when selecting Water Plus from the app, although I may not have waited long enough into the cycle if the extra filling is delayed. The app is so slow and glitchy that it makes testing or using it quite annoying, but I will report as I experiment more.
While I agree with littlegreeny that water levels are usually good in the WXR 860 I would enjoy the Water Plus option in the following situations:
1. Extremely heavily soiled laundry, like with hydraulic oil or grease. More water really helps dissolve the soils in this situation.
2. For more delicate washing of certain fabrics. The WXR 860 behaves very differently than my previous Miele on the Delicate cycle. It uses barely any water, none visible in the drum, and spins them very quickly so they mostly stick to the drum for a little bit, then fall down, then repeat. The recirculation pump is occasionally active during this. The previous machine used a high fill for Delicates so that the lifter bars would swirl the laundry around but not really lift and drop it. I think that the latter is gentler and more effective and I miss it. If you enable the "Gentle" option in the Delicates cycle it defeats the rapid spinning but doesn't use enough water to let the lifter bars pass under the laundry. Thus I think the Gentle option actually makes the Delicates cycle rougher as there is a lot more lifting and dropping of the laundry and surprisingly aggressive agitation on rinsing. The same comments apply to the Dress Shirts cycle. I have not tested Water Plus from the app yet with the delicates cycle but hopefully it would behave more like my old machine.
More generally I suppose there is some aggravation that Miele has omitted a feature that is quite widespread on their Euro machines on their TOL USA model, which in particular comes at a premium cost for greater customizability via the touchscreen. Although according to Jerrod_Six it might just be due to regulations, sadly.
I played around a little with Water Plus in the programming menu and app a little bit, although not enough yet for a holistic picture. I found that changing the "Water Plus Level" in the programming menu from Normal to three drops had no effect on the wash fill level for empty loads started from the touchscreen for Wrinkle Free and Darks. Selecting the Water Plus option on the app for the Wrinkle Free program did result in a much higher wash water level. The machine started the cycle normally and then several minutes into the cycle increased the water level substantially. I cancelled the test programs before observing rinses. I did not notice a change in the wash water level for the Darks program when selecting Water Plus from the app, although I may not have waited long enough into the cycle if the extra filling is delayed. The app is so slow and glitchy that it makes testing or using it quite annoying, but I will report as I experiment more.
jerrod_six
Well-known member
I have my machine set to the first water drop of water plus, but I actually don't think I need it- just tried it to see what would happen and haven't set it back yet. My machine adds the water after it has determined the load size. The amount added seems to depend on what program cycle you are using. I get a bit of water added when using the Baby Clothes program and a bit more water when using wrinkle-free. I can't tell any difference during the rinses and really can't see that much during the wash - I can just hear it take a bit more. I don't think you want too much water during the wash anyway since that would dilute the tumbling action but I can see how it might come in handy if you regularly wash thick absorbent items.
@jerrod_six, exactly which model do you have? Are you saying that you notice increased water levels with a drop added in the programming menu even if you have not selected the Water Plus option in the app?
Water Plus is somewhat different depending on the model. I have the WWH860 AND the WXI860. Water plus is enabled ALL THE TIME on the WWH860. If it is left at the “normal” setting in the expanded programming menu then no extra water is added to any cycle. If you set water plus to one, two or three drops then wash water is increased in any cycle that honors that extra. It is not possible to disable the water plus option on this model.
On the WXI860 the water plus option is DISABLED by default. It has to be enabled per cycle, each time, if that extra is desired. It will not be remembered even if you have the memory feature enabled. The amount specified in the Water Plus expanded programming menu is what will be used IF the option is added for a cycle. Since water plus is only available when using the app, that is the only way to select it.
So Miele went from one extreme to the other with the model upgrade. I think the WXI860 should remember the water plus setting if the memory option is enabled. Why? When doing a full load of absorbent towels there will be zero free water during the main wash. The recirculating pump will kick on, but there will be no water to circulate UNLESS you enable the water plus option (and for me it needs to be three drops if doing 6-8 large Costco size bath towels).
I personally would rather just have water plus enabled all the time OR have it selectable from the display instead of having to go in the app. For those with the WXR-860 it would be interesting to see if water plus extra can be saved in a favorite.
On the WXI860 the water plus option is DISABLED by default. It has to be enabled per cycle, each time, if that extra is desired. It will not be remembered even if you have the memory feature enabled. The amount specified in the Water Plus expanded programming menu is what will be used IF the option is added for a cycle. Since water plus is only available when using the app, that is the only way to select it.
So Miele went from one extreme to the other with the model upgrade. I think the WXI860 should remember the water plus setting if the memory option is enabled. Why? When doing a full load of absorbent towels there will be zero free water during the main wash. The recirculating pump will kick on, but there will be no water to circulate UNLESS you enable the water plus option (and for me it needs to be three drops if doing 6-8 large Costco size bath towels).
I personally would rather just have water plus enabled all the time OR have it selectable from the display instead of having to go in the app. For those with the WXR-860 it would be interesting to see if water plus extra can be saved in a favorite.
Interesting
My WXR860 uses the recirculation pump all the time in every cycle and it has never been in a situation where it didn't have enough water to circulate water or pump dry, even with huge loads of towels. And that's without Water Plus enabled.
My new washer is amazing in every way and I'm absolutely 100% satisfied with its performance.[this post was last edited: 12/11/2021-17:20]
My WXR860 uses the recirculation pump all the time in every cycle and it has never been in a situation where it didn't have enough water to circulate water or pump dry, even with huge loads of towels. And that's without Water Plus enabled.
My new washer is amazing in every way and I'm absolutely 100% satisfied with its performance.[this post was last edited: 12/11/2021-17:20]
launderess
Well-known member
@ littlegreeny
To hasten dissipation of that "new dryer whiff" you could try doing a few loads of rags or maybe things around house that want a wash and or would need drying.
To save wear on your new Miele washer could just do things by hand or something.
Don't think baking soda in a wash load would help with this new dryer scent. Most properties you're wanting from sodium bicarbonate would have been used in wash then gone by subsequent rinsing.
To hasten dissipation of that "new dryer whiff" you could try doing a few loads of rags or maybe things around house that want a wash and or would need drying.
To save wear on your new Miele washer could just do things by hand or something.
Don't think baking soda in a wash load would help with this new dryer scent. Most properties you're wanting from sodium bicarbonate would have been used in wash then gone by subsequent rinsing.
Thanks Launderess!
The smell is dissipating with each load of laundry dried and the smell is nearly gone now. I do not plan to soak the plinth filter.
The smell is dissipating with each load of laundry dried and the smell is nearly gone now. I do not plan to soak the plinth filter.
Miele App Question
Has anyone downloaded version 4.2.0 of the app for iPhone? Did anyone have any issues? My current app is version 4.1.1 and the buggy things I see are the washer status always says the washer is in the main wash and the temperature is displaying the wrong units (i.e. when temp is set to 140F, the app says the temp is 140C).
Has anyone downloaded version 4.2.0 of the app for iPhone? Did anyone have any issues? My current app is version 4.1.1 and the buggy things I see are the washer status always says the washer is in the main wash and the temperature is displaying the wrong units (i.e. when temp is set to 140F, the app says the temp is 140C).
I did.
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Seems to be fine. Mine are set to autoupdate and I noticed the other day it had updated. You can now get more information on the AutoDos amounts and the other things seem to be working fine for me. </span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Under General settings there are options for Fahrenheit and Gallons. Have you checked that?</span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Seems to be fine. Mine are set to autoupdate and I noticed the other day it had updated. You can now get more information on the AutoDos amounts and the other things seem to be working fine for me. </span>
<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Under General settings there are options for Fahrenheit and Gallons. Have you checked that?</span>
Thanks Ralph!
I updated the app and now the appliance status is showing. I'm also seeing an actual twindos level which is nice. If I change the units from C to F, it will show the temp as 284F instead of 140F. I'm going to change the washer to display the temp as C instead of F and see if the app will show the correct temp.
I updated the app and now the appliance status is showing. I'm also seeing an actual twindos level which is nice. If I change the units from C to F, it will show the temp as 284F instead of 140F. I'm going to change the washer to display the temp as C instead of F and see if the app will show the correct temp.
Intermediate Spins?
One thing I've noticed with my new washer is it seems to have a bit of a hard time balancing mixed loads of towels and low pile bath mats (more of a towel really but texture and density is different than the towels). Anyways, I was washing them on the towels cycle, 120F with an extra rinse. I haven't really watched it go through this cycle before. It was having trouble going into the intermediate spin after the wash was complete. It tried unsuccessfully to spin though I felt it was being a little picky as it seemed to be balanced several times. After about 10 minutes I heard a relay click and then the display said Rinse. To my horror, the Miele skipped the spin! I've watched many cycles of the W1 on youtube and don't recall them ever skipping a spin. And then to further add to my horror, it only rinsed twice even though I had extra rinse selected! It did manage to do an interim spin between the first and second rinse.
So what am I doing wrong here? Should I be washing towels on a different cycle other than towels? I know the wash is pretty short but these towels are just used to dry off clean bodies in my house, so they aren't dirty per se.
One thing I've noticed with my new washer is it seems to have a bit of a hard time balancing mixed loads of towels and low pile bath mats (more of a towel really but texture and density is different than the towels). Anyways, I was washing them on the towels cycle, 120F with an extra rinse. I haven't really watched it go through this cycle before. It was having trouble going into the intermediate spin after the wash was complete. It tried unsuccessfully to spin though I felt it was being a little picky as it seemed to be balanced several times. After about 10 minutes I heard a relay click and then the display said Rinse. To my horror, the Miele skipped the spin! I've watched many cycles of the W1 on youtube and don't recall them ever skipping a spin. And then to further add to my horror, it only rinsed twice even though I had extra rinse selected! It did manage to do an interim spin between the first and second rinse.
So what am I doing wrong here? Should I be washing towels on a different cycle other than towels? I know the wash is pretty short but these towels are just used to dry off clean bodies in my house, so they aren't dirty per se.
These have quite well gated OOB targets for different interim spins.
It might be possible that towels trys to run a very high interim spin and thus dosen't allow it.
Or it has a very sensitive setting due to the kind of load.
I don't have any issues with that on my machine with towels on the Cottons cycle, but that's barely comparable.
I don't know how many rinses the cycle is supposed to run normally.
I know mine over here won't add a rinse unless it fails to interim spin twice (usually due to a suds lock).
So not adding another rinse seems correct.
My next idea would be to try to seperate those 2 different kinds of items.
I found at least one type of load with every washer I used so far that just wouldn't work no matter what.
Trying another cycle can never hurt.
I haven't heard much about the US QuickIntense cycle yet.
That would be the cycle I would switch to for a load that needed decent quick cleaning for resistant items if no other cycle would work.
That however isn't the best at spinning either since it keeps balancing windows short.
I'll check the manual and update on what cycle might work.
It might be possible that towels trys to run a very high interim spin and thus dosen't allow it.
Or it has a very sensitive setting due to the kind of load.
I don't have any issues with that on my machine with towels on the Cottons cycle, but that's barely comparable.
I don't know how many rinses the cycle is supposed to run normally.
I know mine over here won't add a rinse unless it fails to interim spin twice (usually due to a suds lock).
So not adding another rinse seems correct.
My next idea would be to try to seperate those 2 different kinds of items.
I found at least one type of load with every washer I used so far that just wouldn't work no matter what.
Trying another cycle can never hurt.
I haven't heard much about the US QuickIntense cycle yet.
That would be the cycle I would switch to for a load that needed decent quick cleaning for resistant items if no other cycle would work.
That however isn't the best at spinning either since it keeps balancing windows short.
I'll check the manual and update on what cycle might work.
launderess
Well-known member
Towels, bath mats, bath robes, anything "thick and thirsty" especially made from but not limited to terry cloth can be a mine field for h-axis washers. Things like hoodies, sweat pants and other things made from fleece can fall into this are as well.
Watch drum movements as washer tries to balance load/rev up to spin speed. If drum seems to wobble more than it should, pull to one side, etc... those are signs (IMHO) load is slightly or very much OOB. How washer will cope and or deal with things varies by manufacture.
My AEG front loader will slow down drum movements and or try to redistribute load until it senses things are within parameters. Then Whoaa Nellie! It's off to races.
To machine's credit if it revs up to spin and things really are out of balance it will stop, then start whole redistribution process all over again.
You may find it's best to use "towels" setting for those items alone with perhaps wash cloths or other small items. Then doing bath mats on their own, or maybe just with a smaller number of towels (like one or two).
Personally one reason got the Maytag wringer was to cope with bulky and or heavy things like blankets, bath mats, heavy and thick bath robes.. It's either that machine or do them by hand using hand mangle to wring or bunged into spin dryer.
Watch drum movements as washer tries to balance load/rev up to spin speed. If drum seems to wobble more than it should, pull to one side, etc... those are signs (IMHO) load is slightly or very much OOB. How washer will cope and or deal with things varies by manufacture.
My AEG front loader will slow down drum movements and or try to redistribute load until it senses things are within parameters. Then Whoaa Nellie! It's off to races.
To machine's credit if it revs up to spin and things really are out of balance it will stop, then start whole redistribution process all over again.
You may find it's best to use "towels" setting for those items alone with perhaps wash cloths or other small items. Then doing bath mats on their own, or maybe just with a smaller number of towels (like one or two).
Personally one reason got the Maytag wringer was to cope with bulky and or heavy things like blankets, bath mats, heavy and thick bath robes.. It's either that machine or do them by hand using hand mangle to wring or bunged into spin dryer.
Looking at the table
Depending on cycle times, you might wanna try the Whites or the Baby Clothes cycle.
Both offer full spin speed and similar parameters.
They might have different OOB settings.
Depending on cycle times, you might wanna try the Whites or the Baby Clothes cycle.
Both offer full spin speed and similar parameters.
They might have different OOB settings.
Thanks Launderess and Henrik!
I ran another but smaller load of towels with the same settings and watched the cycle. It managed to do all the interim spins but they were really short and slow. I haven't figured out the RPMs yet but I'm guessing the interim spins were only 600-800 and lasted less than a minute. The final spin was limited to maybe 800-1000 so the towels were pretty wet and I spun them again at 1600 and I believe it made it up to speed.
I forgot to mention I had the spin set to 1200. My towels haven't been feeling soft and fluffy and I thought maybe it was because of the 1600 spin speed so I've been spinning most loads at 1200. Now I think they felt that way because they haven't been getting properly rinsed.
And I think there's a programming bug with the towels cycle. The manual says it has two rinses. But when you add an extra rinse, the cycle time doesn't increase like the other cycles and it still only does two rinses. I tried selecting extra rinse in the app and it didn't add any extra time either.
Henrik, I'm very curious what table you were referring to? I'd love to see it if it shows interim spin speeds or other information that isn't available in the owners manual.
I think I might need to try using the normal cycle for towels because I really want them rinsed three times like all my other loads. Thanks for suggesting the extra white and baby clothes cycles but they are too intensive for my lightly soiled towels. And the quick intense wash does a really short spin between the wash and first rinse but doesn't spin between the first and second rinse. And you can't select extra rinse either, so that's out.
I ran another but smaller load of towels with the same settings and watched the cycle. It managed to do all the interim spins but they were really short and slow. I haven't figured out the RPMs yet but I'm guessing the interim spins were only 600-800 and lasted less than a minute. The final spin was limited to maybe 800-1000 so the towels were pretty wet and I spun them again at 1600 and I believe it made it up to speed.
I forgot to mention I had the spin set to 1200. My towels haven't been feeling soft and fluffy and I thought maybe it was because of the 1600 spin speed so I've been spinning most loads at 1200. Now I think they felt that way because they haven't been getting properly rinsed.
And I think there's a programming bug with the towels cycle. The manual says it has two rinses. But when you add an extra rinse, the cycle time doesn't increase like the other cycles and it still only does two rinses. I tried selecting extra rinse in the app and it didn't add any extra time either.
Henrik, I'm very curious what table you were referring to? I'd love to see it if it shows interim spin speeds or other information that isn't available in the owners manual.
I think I might need to try using the normal cycle for towels because I really want them rinsed three times like all my other loads. Thanks for suggesting the extra white and baby clothes cycles but they are too intensive for my lightly soiled towels. And the quick intense wash does a really short spin between the wash and first rinse but doesn't spin between the first and second rinse. And you can't select extra rinse either, so that's out.
Table
It's just the cycle table in the manual.
While over here most Miele cycles are unique, there are certain "flags" that indicate which cycle is based on what.
Rinses are one. If it's 2-5 rinses, it's based on Cottons.
If it's 2-3 it's Easy Care.
And Mieles OOB gating is just something known from the Novotronics that I assume has been transferred through the lines by observation.
They usually have 3 levels of sensing. And that can be switched around to their pleasing.
My guess why the higher end machines tend to be more finicky is that these *might* have the true acceleration sensor.
In the service menu (the on accessed via the 5 start button presses after closing the door) there is *usually* setting to choose the balance sensor type.
There are 3 settings I think. One using only tachometric data, one using both tachometric data and the specified sensor and one I don't remember off the top of my head.
The higher end models have the additional sensor for smoother operation.
That might make them more sensitive, mine only has the tachometric sensor has spun almost everything.
It's just the cycle table in the manual.
While over here most Miele cycles are unique, there are certain "flags" that indicate which cycle is based on what.
Rinses are one. If it's 2-5 rinses, it's based on Cottons.
If it's 2-3 it's Easy Care.
And Mieles OOB gating is just something known from the Novotronics that I assume has been transferred through the lines by observation.
They usually have 3 levels of sensing. And that can be switched around to their pleasing.
My guess why the higher end machines tend to be more finicky is that these *might* have the true acceleration sensor.
In the service menu (the on accessed via the 5 start button presses after closing the door) there is *usually* setting to choose the balance sensor type.
There are 3 settings I think. One using only tachometric data, one using both tachometric data and the specified sensor and one I don't remember off the top of my head.
The higher end models have the additional sensor for smoother operation.
That might make them more sensitive, mine only has the tachometric sensor has spun almost everything.
jerrod_six
Well-known member
I don't know how the towels cycle works on your model but on mine, it is one of the cycles I never use for towels. When my model was released the website described the towel cycle using the terms" great for removing sand" as if it was intended to be used for beach towels. I tried this cycle several times and the reason I didn't care for it is that the interim spins are just too short for me - more like burst spins. Mine did do 3 rinses but the interim spin is so short that I didn't think it would remove enough of the detergent. I wash all of my towels on the baby clothes program.
Also on mine using the baby clothes program, if the spin after the wash is not accomplished, yes it will say rinse, but the time remaining will move up to a time before the wash had actually ended and I will end up getting an extra rinse. Since Baby clothes default to 3 rinses I get four rinses and the rinse added will use the max rinse level for its fill. On my W1, the interim spin at 1200 is the same speed as 1600, only the last spin is higher at 1600 rpm.
Also on mine using the baby clothes program, if the spin after the wash is not accomplished, yes it will say rinse, but the time remaining will move up to a time before the wash had actually ended and I will end up getting an extra rinse. Since Baby clothes default to 3 rinses I get four rinses and the rinse added will use the max rinse level for its fill. On my W1, the interim spin at 1200 is the same speed as 1600, only the last spin is higher at 1600 rpm.
Thanks Henrik and Jerrod!
I'll need to go back into the service menu. I believe mine had two things selected under the balance sensor. It does seem to be very sensitive to OOB loads.
I'm not going to use the towels cycle any longer for precisely the reason you mention Jerrod, the interim spins are way too short. I think I'll just start using the normal cycle instead. I've used baby clothes a few times and actually saved it under my favorites renaming it to "Cottons Intensive."
Does anyone know what speed the interim spins are supposed to be? I assume they vary depending on the cycle selected, correct?
I'll need to go back into the service menu. I believe mine had two things selected under the balance sensor. It does seem to be very sensitive to OOB loads.
I'm not going to use the towels cycle any longer for precisely the reason you mention Jerrod, the interim spins are way too short. I think I'll just start using the normal cycle instead. I've used baby clothes a few times and actually saved it under my favorites renaming it to "Cottons Intensive."
Does anyone know what speed the interim spins are supposed to be? I assume they vary depending on the cycle selected, correct?
@littlegreeny
I'm sorry to hear about your issues with the Towels cycle. I have not had much of a chance to use the Towels cycle as I have always gotten excellent results using the Extra White cycle for my full loads of towels. I do understand if you feel that cycle is too long and intense for your needs, however, as it washes for about an hour before the first rinse. The spins are superb however and I have not had balance issues with Extra White. While I rinse most of my loads three times I get perfectly acceptable results (even with our naturally soft water) with the default two rinses for towels with correct detergent dosing.
I have also noticed that the Towels cycle does not extend its time when an extra rinse is selected, however the machine does increase its estimated water consumption. I haven't had the chance to observe cycles with both options to see what it actually does.
I find the OOB management of this machine to be one of its biggest mysteries. On some cycles, particularly Normal, Extra White, and Baby Clothes it seems quite insensitive to imbalance and willing to spin even with a good amount of drum displacement. The Drain/Spin cycle also seems very insensitive and willing to spin just about any load. But some cycles, namely Dress Shirts, are absurdly sensitive to balance. I often wash a small load of about 4-5 button downs and the machine will, every time, attempt to balance for a full 5 minutes per spin (adding 20 minutes total to the cycle) before giving up and spinning "out of balance" even though the resultant drum displacement is far less than would occur in a large Normal cycle without complaint or delay from the machine. You seem to have discovered a similar over-sensitivity in the programming of the towels cycle, unfortunately. I do occasionally find that the machine has rejected the last spin and left a large comforter soaking wet on the pillows cycle, but selecting Drain/Spin has always fixed that. I don't begrudge the machine the latter as much since those are much heavier than a large load of dress shirts.
Many thanks to henene4 for the interesting notes on the balance sensors and cycle logic. Please let me know if you discover anything useful changing your balance sensor settings, littlegreeny.
I think you are on the right track to use Normal with an extra rinse for your towels if you want a good, but not extremely intensive wash, and excellent spinning between rinses. If you want a faster cycle (and aren't using 1600 rpm anyway) you might also give Table Linens / Drapes a try. I wash microfiber towels and 100% cotton sheets with that cycle and it provides a quick cycle time but aggressive cleaning and rinsing action with a high water level in the main wash. The manual says that Table Linens/Drapes has two rinses but I find that it does 3 normally and 4 with extra rinse.
I don't know exactly what the interim spin speed are supposed to be. I know that if I select 0rpm that there will be no intermediate spins, but beyond that I always use the maximum spin speed available and haven't had any issues with stretching or wrinkling.
I agree with you that QuickIntenseWash doesn't rinse well enough for towels. I find that cycle rather puzzling. Miele says it is not for heavily soiled items, but it spends nearly the entire cycle aggressively washing and then just a few minutes rinsing and spinning, clearly to maximize the wash time. It spends longer than the Normal cycle in the wash phase so it would seem that it would be intended for more heavily soiled items. Perhaps the design of the cycle only really makes sense on Euro cold fill models where the very low water level in the main wash and devoting the vast majority of the cycle to washing allows the QuickIntenseWash to hit temp in the shorter time.
I'm sorry to hear about your issues with the Towels cycle. I have not had much of a chance to use the Towels cycle as I have always gotten excellent results using the Extra White cycle for my full loads of towels. I do understand if you feel that cycle is too long and intense for your needs, however, as it washes for about an hour before the first rinse. The spins are superb however and I have not had balance issues with Extra White. While I rinse most of my loads three times I get perfectly acceptable results (even with our naturally soft water) with the default two rinses for towels with correct detergent dosing.
I have also noticed that the Towels cycle does not extend its time when an extra rinse is selected, however the machine does increase its estimated water consumption. I haven't had the chance to observe cycles with both options to see what it actually does.
I find the OOB management of this machine to be one of its biggest mysteries. On some cycles, particularly Normal, Extra White, and Baby Clothes it seems quite insensitive to imbalance and willing to spin even with a good amount of drum displacement. The Drain/Spin cycle also seems very insensitive and willing to spin just about any load. But some cycles, namely Dress Shirts, are absurdly sensitive to balance. I often wash a small load of about 4-5 button downs and the machine will, every time, attempt to balance for a full 5 minutes per spin (adding 20 minutes total to the cycle) before giving up and spinning "out of balance" even though the resultant drum displacement is far less than would occur in a large Normal cycle without complaint or delay from the machine. You seem to have discovered a similar over-sensitivity in the programming of the towels cycle, unfortunately. I do occasionally find that the machine has rejected the last spin and left a large comforter soaking wet on the pillows cycle, but selecting Drain/Spin has always fixed that. I don't begrudge the machine the latter as much since those are much heavier than a large load of dress shirts.
Many thanks to henene4 for the interesting notes on the balance sensors and cycle logic. Please let me know if you discover anything useful changing your balance sensor settings, littlegreeny.
I think you are on the right track to use Normal with an extra rinse for your towels if you want a good, but not extremely intensive wash, and excellent spinning between rinses. If you want a faster cycle (and aren't using 1600 rpm anyway) you might also give Table Linens / Drapes a try. I wash microfiber towels and 100% cotton sheets with that cycle and it provides a quick cycle time but aggressive cleaning and rinsing action with a high water level in the main wash. The manual says that Table Linens/Drapes has two rinses but I find that it does 3 normally and 4 with extra rinse.
I don't know exactly what the interim spin speed are supposed to be. I know that if I select 0rpm that there will be no intermediate spins, but beyond that I always use the maximum spin speed available and haven't had any issues with stretching or wrinkling.
I agree with you that QuickIntenseWash doesn't rinse well enough for towels. I find that cycle rather puzzling. Miele says it is not for heavily soiled items, but it spends nearly the entire cycle aggressively washing and then just a few minutes rinsing and spinning, clearly to maximize the wash time. It spends longer than the Normal cycle in the wash phase so it would seem that it would be intended for more heavily soiled items. Perhaps the design of the cycle only really makes sense on Euro cold fill models where the very low water level in the main wash and devoting the vast majority of the cycle to washing allows the QuickIntenseWash to hit temp in the shorter time.
launderess
Well-known member
Refresh, Intense, Quick...
Pretty much all boil down to same thing with European front loaders one finds. A cycle of about 30 minutes (give or take) where major portion of time is spent washing (rather aggressively IMHO), followed by one or two rinses, then short (but fast) series of final spin cycles.
On my AEG Lavamat the "Refresh" cycle is meant for small loads (< 2 kilos) of things that are lightly soiled, such as being "only worn once".
Find this cycle works well when doing a few jumpers made from microfiber. Machine washes the heck out of them (recirculation jet on entire time), then rinses and spins. If find things want a bit more rinsing reset to "Rinse" only but cancel spin. When cycle is over put set machine for "Short Spin".
At only about thirty mins (give or take incoming water temp), this is one of fastest cycles on my Lavamat. Perfect for when one just has a few things but doesn't want to wait an hour or more for any of other cycles.
Pretty much all boil down to same thing with European front loaders one finds. A cycle of about 30 minutes (give or take) where major portion of time is spent washing (rather aggressively IMHO), followed by one or two rinses, then short (but fast) series of final spin cycles.
On my AEG Lavamat the "Refresh" cycle is meant for small loads (< 2 kilos) of things that are lightly soiled, such as being "only worn once".
Find this cycle works well when doing a few jumpers made from microfiber. Machine washes the heck out of them (recirculation jet on entire time), then rinses and spins. If find things want a bit more rinsing reset to "Rinse" only but cancel spin. When cycle is over put set machine for "Short Spin".
At only about thirty mins (give or take incoming water temp), this is one of fastest cycles on my Lavamat. Perfect for when one just has a few things but doesn't want to wait an hour or more for any of other cycles.
launderess
Well-known member
Could short and slow interim spins have anything to do with how machine copes with sudden rush of water? That is more water than pump can manage, so machine slows down extraction speed in order to cope.
Know with my AEG washer when doing very absorbent loads washer will slow down spinning. This and or just stop extraction and do a series of on/off with pump to get out excess water from sump.
Know with my AEG washer when doing very absorbent loads washer will slow down spinning. This and or just stop extraction and do a series of on/off with pump to get out excess water from sump.
@launderess, your comments are very applicable to Miele’s Express cycle which is intended for lightly soiled laundry only and features a cycle time of 30 minutes or 20 minutes with the “Lightly Soiled” option selected.
QuickIntenseWash is a little stranger. It clocks in at 49 minutes and spends all but the last few in the quite aggressive wash cycle. Over 40 minutes of washing are performed, which is more than Miele’s Normal cycle on this machine. The two rinses and spinning is almost comically compressed into the last few minutes. For the higher water level first rinse the water starts draining nearly immediately after filling stops. The strangeness for me about this cycle is the extreme degree to which Miele prioritizes wash time over rinsing quality and getting a good spin, yet doesn’t market the QuickIntenseWash as for anything more than “moderately” soiled laundry. While ostensibly a 1600rpm spin I’ve never seen the washer hit that on QuickIntenseWash and the duration is so short that the laundry retains more water than it would with a 1200rpm normal spin. One would think that trading off a minute or two of spinning for a significantly longer added drying time doesn’t make much sense for a cycle where speed is the priority.
I would speculate that QuickIntenseWash does make more sense in cold fill markets since prioritizing washing time (along with the very low water level) allows the cycle to reach up to 60C and have effective enzyme and/or oxygen bleaching action from a decent temperature holding time. With USA warm fill the cleaning power of shorter washing durations is significantly enhanced and many cycles are quite a bit shorter reducing the relative benefits of the QuickIntenseWash cycle. While the Normal cycle on this machine is 1:26 (up to 50C) the Cottons cycle on many European market machines can be 2:30 or even over 3 hours long. Other parts of the world are also more likely to hang-dry their laundry which also negates the drying time penalty from the suboptimal final spin performance in QuickIntenseWash.
QuickIntenseWash is a little stranger. It clocks in at 49 minutes and spends all but the last few in the quite aggressive wash cycle. Over 40 minutes of washing are performed, which is more than Miele’s Normal cycle on this machine. The two rinses and spinning is almost comically compressed into the last few minutes. For the higher water level first rinse the water starts draining nearly immediately after filling stops. The strangeness for me about this cycle is the extreme degree to which Miele prioritizes wash time over rinsing quality and getting a good spin, yet doesn’t market the QuickIntenseWash as for anything more than “moderately” soiled laundry. While ostensibly a 1600rpm spin I’ve never seen the washer hit that on QuickIntenseWash and the duration is so short that the laundry retains more water than it would with a 1200rpm normal spin. One would think that trading off a minute or two of spinning for a significantly longer added drying time doesn’t make much sense for a cycle where speed is the priority.
I would speculate that QuickIntenseWash does make more sense in cold fill markets since prioritizing washing time (along with the very low water level) allows the cycle to reach up to 60C and have effective enzyme and/or oxygen bleaching action from a decent temperature holding time. With USA warm fill the cleaning power of shorter washing durations is significantly enhanced and many cycles are quite a bit shorter reducing the relative benefits of the QuickIntenseWash cycle. While the Normal cycle on this machine is 1:26 (up to 50C) the Cottons cycle on many European market machines can be 2:30 or even over 3 hours long. Other parts of the world are also more likely to hang-dry their laundry which also negates the drying time penalty from the suboptimal final spin performance in QuickIntenseWash.
@littlegreeny, you should make sure your drain hose is not too far down your drain pipe and that it is zip tied to maintain its height. While this machine does have excessive OOB sensitivity on some cycles, a Miele tech told me that many spinning delay issues are caused by backflow/reflux on pumping caused by the drain hose being positioned too near the bottom of the drain pipe. If this is part of your problem there should be related code(s) visible in service mode. Correcting it did help my machine but it still suffers from the ridiculous OOB behavior on the Dress Shirts cycle that I described above.
Thanks Hippo and Launderess!
The default imbalance sensor settings are tacho + EZU which I think I'll just leave alone. I do feel like it's programmed to be more sensitive to OOB issues on certain cycles like towels. Speaking of which, the manual says to use that cycle "for linen or cotton towels used for personal hygiene."
It seems to run best and have the least issues with balancing when you run full loads, especially if it contains heavy or absorbent items.
I also wish the quick intense wash was better at rinsing and extracting. I've been using that cycle set to 140F for my light, thin Ikea kitchen towels and it does a great job getting them clean. I just use less detergent to compensate for the poor rinsing.
The drain hose is properly installed. I made sure to check that when I read about your issues with installation, Hippo.
The default imbalance sensor settings are tacho + EZU which I think I'll just leave alone. I do feel like it's programmed to be more sensitive to OOB issues on certain cycles like towels. Speaking of which, the manual says to use that cycle "for linen or cotton towels used for personal hygiene."
It seems to run best and have the least issues with balancing when you run full loads, especially if it contains heavy or absorbent items.
I also wish the quick intense wash was better at rinsing and extracting. I've been using that cycle set to 140F for my light, thin Ikea kitchen towels and it does a great job getting them clean. I just use less detergent to compensate for the poor rinsing.
The drain hose is properly installed. I made sure to check that when I read about your issues with installation, Hippo.
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