Whirlpool and Samsung are reducing the maximum spin speed on their washers

[Chetlaham]

For top loaders this with the case tho, I think the motors on your typical VMW spin at the same speed of the drum. The drum would only be slower than the motor if the bearings were severely worn, the speed sensor is failed, or the hub is stripped.

VMW has a pulley that reduces the motor's speed. The Cabrios were direct drives as there was no belt or pulleys.

Ok, my ignorance will show here to a profound extent but only because I have a very strong dislike for modern machine. Which Whirlpool washers today, if any, are direct drive in the sense of having an inverter driven motor that controls the tub directly?

 

[whirlpool862]

VMW has a pulley that reduces the motor's speed. The Cabrios were direct drives as there was no belt or pulleys.

Ok, my ignorance will show here to a profound extent but only because I have a very strong dislike for modern machine. Which Whirlpool washers today, if any, are direct drive in the sense of having an inverter driven motor that controls the tub directly?

I think the pulley reduces it, but the motor I don’t think spins faster than the drum unless there’s a mechanical issue. I don’t mind modern washers. I definitely like direct drives better, but the older Cabrios would’ve been great if they had good seal and bearing. The older VMWs and VMAXs were decent if maintained properly.

The newer GE’s are fine, I actually don’t hate them, and GE keeps improving. They sound like older VMWs (but with a different pitch) on agitation, but many eventually get used to it and it isn’t that loud. Much better than the latest VMW. Samsung still is awful. LG is good as well.

I used to be a major Whirlpool fan, and Whirlpool was the go-to brand for me for a while. I always encouraged people to get a Whirlpool for new appliances, even with the cabrio and VMW. I didn’t know VMWs had bearings until I was told on my first thread “Whirlpool high efficiency top load washer is very loud on the spin cycle”. I thought only the cabrios had bearings.

Mine is a 2014, manufactured 9th week of 2014 according to serial number, so it’s 11 years old. Still runs other than the loud bearing noise. I’ve had friends who had issues with their newer Whirlpools constantly draining. Bad boards are a very common problem. I have four friends who had issues, they weren’t all having the failure at once but they all did at one point, all are 2023 or early 2024 I think.

 

[Chetlaham]

The motor spins about three times faster than the tub itself on belted VMW washers. The motor spins around 1625 RPM the tub around 600-800 RPM.

 

[whirlpool862]

The motor spins about three times faster than the tub itself on belted VMW washers. The motor spins around 1625 RPM the tub around 600-800 RPM.

I’m guessing the inside of the motor spins that fast but not the outside of the motor. You said the motor pulley makes it spin slower.

 

[Chetlaham]

I’m guessing the inside of the motor spins that fast but not the outside of the motor. You said the motor pulley makes it spin slower.

The squirrel cage rotor, the shaft and the motor's pulley all spin at 1625 RPM. Because the motor pulley is smaller and the splutch drive pulley is larger, the motor pulley must complete about 3 revolutions before the drive pulley makes one full revolution. The advantage here is that the reduced speed is turned into increased torque.

 

[whirlpool862]

The squirrel cage rotor, the shaft and the motor's pulley all spin at 1625 RPM. Because the motor pulley is smaller and the splutch drive pulley is larger, the motor pulley must complete about 3 revolutions before the drive pulley makes one full revolution. The advantage here is that the reduced speed is turned into increased torque.

Oh, now I see how it works.

 

[combo52]

Oh my God, I don’t believe the nonsense how little you guys know about washing machines.

VMW style machines that are belt driven the motor goes at least four times faster than the drum during the spin cycle

Belt driven front load washers the motor often goes between 10 and 20,000 RPMs when they’re at full spin speed.

Yes, of course a direct drive washer either a top load or a front load. The motor goes at the same speed as the drum spins during the spin cycle.

Direct drive front load or top load washers do not have motor bearings as such they use the main drum bearings.

John L

 

[phillymatt53]

Oh my God, I don’t believe the nonsense how little you guys know about washing machines.

VMW style machines that are belt driven the motor goes at least four times faster than the drum during the spin cycle

Belt driven front load washers the motor often goes between 10 and 20,000 RPMs when they’re at full spin speed.

Yes, of course a direct drive washer either a top load or a front load. The motor goes at the same speed as the drum spins during the spin cycle.

Direct drive front load or top load washers do not have motor bearings as such they use the main drum bearings.

John L

All well and good.
However, please confirm that 10K to 20K motor speed in operation by backing it up with a video.
I'm sure others on here would be interested in that, and put any objections to rest.

 

[Chetlaham]

All well and good.
However, please confirm that 10K to 20K motor speed in operation by backing it up with a video.
I'm sure others on here would be interested in that, and put any objections to rest.

A belted VMW does not have a reduction of 4 between the motor and tub. 1625 / 4 = 406.25. I don't know of any VMW that spins around 400 rpm on high.

2.5 is more accurate.

 

[phillymatt53]

A belted VMW does not have a reduction of 4 between the motor and tub. 1625 / 4 = 406.25. I don't know of any VMW that spins around 400 rpm on high.

2.5 is more accurate.

I did a little checking online, and I fail to see anything about a Whirlpool washer or any washer having a motor that spins at 10,000 to 20,000 RPM.
Because that's a crazy fast speed.
My handheld Dremel multifunction drill-grinder max's out at 30,000 RPM, which I never use that fast.

 

[laundryguysf]

We’ve had high spin speed machines here in Europe for years without any direct issues from the speed of the spin.

You’ll have to pry my 1600rpm washing machine from my cold, dead hands - especially this time of year when decent outdoor drying weather is rare. The spin performance of a typical US toploader just does not compare - and that’s speaking factually, not emotionally.

I visit Europe regularly and would give anything to have a 1600 rpm front loader. Unfortunately, I realize that will NEVER happen in the US because everything has to be bigger and faster. That in itself is the opposite of the logic behind European front loaders and American washers, both front and top loaders. Once we start making the front loaders bigger the spin speeds have to be reduced, which means less water extraction and longer drying times and by making the cycles shorter, the cleaning effectiveness is also reduced. And one huge factor that a lot of people don't understand is the benefit of having a cold-water fill. As the water is heated, it allows the detergent to work on stains at the optimum temperature for each stain. Again, more effective cleaning and without bleach! Yes European washers do not use bleach. Just my opinion but we are not getting the best when it comes to washers in the US.

 

[phillymatt53]

I visit Europe regularly and would give anything to have a 1600 rpm front loader. Unfortunately, I realize that will NEVER happen in the US because everything has to be bigger and faster. That in itself is the opposite of the logic behind European front loaders and American washers, both front and top loaders. Once we start making the front loaders bigger the spin speeds have to be reduced, which means less water extraction and longer drying times and by making the cycles shorter, the cleaning effectiveness is also reduced. And one huge factor that a lot of people don't understand is the benefit of having a cold-water fill. As the water is heated, it allows the detergent to work on stains at the optimum temperature for each stain. Again, more effective cleaning and without bleach! Yes European washers do not use bleach. Just my opinion but we are not getting the best when it comes to washers in the US.

I'd love to know where all that information/facts/statistics are derived from.
Because three's so much misinformation spreading around these days, it would be great to check out some reputable authorities.

 

[combo52]

Post number 40 motor speed in modern washing machines

Here are pictures that I took on some three phase washer motors which are common in front load and top load washers today, all of them run between 9000 and 17,500 RPMs. I know there are some that hit 22,000 RPMs I have seen them.

Hi Matt, I really like much of what you bring to the site. Your acknowledge of electronics is amazing but you’re really struggling when you question people who know things about washing machines and other major appliances.

Reply number 41 high laundry guy

It’s great that they have machines that spin at 1600 RPMs in Europe but there’s very little difference in water extraction from 1200 to 1600 RPMs all the big front load washers in the US spin it at at least 1200 RPMs. From my extensive experience with huge front loading machines from all my vintage combination washer dryers, I would much rather have a machine with a larger drum. It cleans so much better. It lets the clothing drop a significant distance. It allows everything to flex and unfold large things like blankets and comforters and work coats where the dirt and sand gets out much more easily. I’ve had many European machines, including Meile and they just don’t get the job done when you want stuff them full, you can’t put 10 pairs of my work pants in them and have them nearly as clean as I get from either of my Speed Queen FL machines or my German built Kitchen Pro-Line FL washer.

I also don’t see the need for super hot water. I certainly don’t see the need for using expensive resistance electric for heating water heating I suppose if you wanna put a heat pump in the washing machine to warm the water that would make more sense, but cold fill machines an extraordinary amount of electricity doing laundry with all the heating of the water electrically in the washing machines. It also causes them to have to be de scaled because the heating elements build up a lot of stuff which we never have to do with US machines.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with US front load washers and when you consider that we make the best front loading washer in the world that’s available for home use with the Speed Queen‘s, which have exceptional durability and easy to repair. I don’t feel bad about our choices here.

John L

 

[phillymatt53]

Hi Matt, I really like much of what you bring to the site. Your acknowledge of electronics is amazing but you’re really struggling when you question people who know things about washing machines and other major appliances.

John L

So? what pictures, I'd like to see a video - in operation.

I'm not allowed to question something?
I'm not allowed to ask for some proof of something?
I would think that if somebody stated something, they'd at least have some way to back up their claims.

Not to mention that I've been harrassed on here just because I didn't save information from decades ago that I didn't fine worthy.

Don't assume that I'm only a tv repairman.
I've got service experience with major appliances as well.

 

[Chetlaham]

And one huge factor that a lot of people don't understand is the benefit of having a cold-water fill. As the water is heated, it allows the detergent to work on stains at the optimum temperature for each stain. Again, more effective cleaning and without bleach! Yes European washers do not use bleach. Just my opinion but we are not getting the best when it comes to washers in the US.

This. I would never own a front load washer without a heater. Water becomes to cool once it cycle starts even when set to a hot wash and relying on an external water heater uses tremendous amounts of energy. US front load washers are not practical and will never produce the results EU machines do.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Reply number 41 high laundry guy

It’s great that they have machines that spin at 1600 RPMs in Europe but there’s very little difference in water extraction from 1200 to 1600 RPMs all the big front load washers in the US spin it at at least 1200 RPMs. From my extensive experience with huge front loading machines from all my vintage combination washer dryers, I would much rather have a machine with a larger drum. It cleans so much better. It lets the clothing drop a significant distance. It allows everything to flex and unfold large things like blankets and comforters and work coats where the dirt and sand gets out much more easily. I’ve had many European machines, including Meile and they just don’t get the job done when you want stuff them full, you can’t put 10 pairs of my work pants in them and have them nearly as clean as I get from either of my Speed Queen FL machines or my German built Kitchen Pro-Line FL washer.

I also don’t see the need for super hot water. I certainly don’t see the need for using expensive resistance electric for heating water heating I suppose if you wanna put a heat pump in the washing machine to warm the water that would make more sense, but cold fill machines an extraordinary amount of electricity doing laundry with all the heating of the water electrically in the washing machines. It also causes them to have to be de scaled because the heating elements build up a lot of stuff which we never have to do with US machines.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with US front load washers and when you consider that we make the best front loading washer in the world that’s available for home use with the Speed Queen‘s, which have exceptional durability and easy to repair. I don’t feel bad about our choices here.

John L

The difference between 1200 and 1600 on a European sized machine is around 10% residual moisture - an average 1200 machine will leave 53-55% residual moisture in a load, whereas a 1600 machines between 42 and 44%. In real world terms, that’s around 15 minutes in the tumble dryer. There is also a noticeable difference when unloading the laundry between a 12 and 1600 spin.

I don’t think Europeans and Americans will ever see eye to eye on capacity. I struggle to even fill our allegedly tiny machines here, but then we do tend to sort more thoroughly and wash as and when throughout the week. It’s not usual to wash everything we own on one wash day every couple of weeks, which generally seems to be the way of doing it in the USA from what I understand. (I also only own three pairs of jeans/trousers - so will never have the need to wash so many, plus I don’t like the thought of 10 work pants hanging around for a month in the dirty laundry basket, on the basis that they are changed every 2-3 days and worn over 4 weeks).

I will respectfully disagree that our machines don’t work when full - they do indeed work very well when filled to capacity, it’s very rare that I am able to fill our “tiny” machines to capacity but when I do (usually with towels) they always work just well as with half a load.

I also much prefer having guaranteed water temperatures especially for hot washes, being able to heat and maintain at 60°C for hygiene purposes is a must for me. That and it also means we don’t need to use chlorine bleach to the extent Americans do.

Our detergents are formulated to prevent limescale - water heaters in machines only tend to scale up if insufficient detergent is used, and even if they do scale up it’s nothing an empty wash with some citric acid doesn’t sort.

I don’t doubt the American front loaders work well, you have some nice machines on the market there, but it’s unfair to write off the standard European sized machines that most of Europe, Asia and Australia/NZ use with comments that just aren’t true.

 

[johnb300m]

https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Drive-Motor/W11283592/4897287

https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Drive-Motor/137043000/1553383

 

[johnb300m]

This. I would never own a front load washer without a heater. Water becomes to cool once it cycle starts even when set to a hot wash and relying on an external water heater uses tremendous amounts of energy. US front load washers are not practical and will never produce the results EU machines do.

US front loaders HAVE heaters lol.

 

[laundryguysf]

Post number 40 motor speed in modern washing machines

Here are pictures that I took on some three phase washer motors which are common in front load and top load washers today, all of them run between 9000 and 17,500 RPMs. I know there are some that hit 22,000 RPMs I have seen them.

Hi Matt, I really like much of what you bring to the site. Your acknowledge of electronics is amazing but you’re really struggling when you question people who know things about washing machines and other major appliances.

Reply number 41 high laundry guy

It’s great that they have machines that spin at 1600 RPMs in Europe but there’s very little difference in water extraction from 1200 to 1600 RPMs all the big front load washers in the US spin it at at least 1200 RPMs. From my extensive experience with huge front loading machines from all my vintage combination washer dryers, I would much rather have a machine with a larger drum. It cleans so much better. It lets the clothing drop a significant distance. It allows everything to flex and unfold large things like blankets and comforters and work coats where the dirt and sand gets out much more easily. I’ve had many European machines, including Meile and they just don’t get the job done when you want stuff them full, you can’t put 10 pairs of my work pants in them and have them nearly as clean as I get from either of my Speed Queen FL machines or my German built Kitchen Pro-Line FL washer.

I also don’t see the need for super hot water. I certainly don’t see the need for using expensive resistance electric for heating water heating I suppose if you wanna put a heat pump in the washing machine to warm the water that would make more sense, but cold fill machines an extraordinary amount of electricity doing laundry with all the heating of the water electrically in the washing machines. It also causes them to have to be de scaled because the heating elements build up a lot of stuff which we never have to do with US machines.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with US front load washers and when you consider that we make the best front loading washer in the world that’s available for home use with the Speed Queen‘s, which have exceptional durability and easy to repair. I don’t feel bad about our choices here.

John L

As others have said we're really talking about personal preferences. The ability to wash large amounts of laundry at once is important to some people. There are 2 of us so having a huge machine isn't a necessity. I usually do laundry throughout the week rather than let it pile up and do mountains at once. We have an LG which I've loved for 20 years but we're both retired now and not dressing for work has reduced the amount of laundry we do considerably. We have a queen size bed as well. Our next washer will probably be an Asko or Miele. Again, just my personal preference.

 

[combo52]

Pictures of some various motors with the RPMs listed on them, I had tried to post this and something went wrong. I’ll try again but you can see modern three phase motors go from about 9000 to 17,500 RPMs maximum, I have seen a front load washer motor that listed to 22,000 RPMs.

 

[combo52]

Reply number 46, hi Jon thanks for your detailed response, we do laundry a little differently here I guess I certainly do.

I’ve always loved doing laundry and I’d love to do a lot at the same time growing up in a family of seven I did all the family laundry from 1964 on, and even when we only had one washer and dryer it was still fun to go downstairs and sort everything and spend the evening doing laundry.

I sort things very thoroughly, currently with just my partner, and I I only do laundry every 3 to 4 weeks sometimes even a little longer, with the type of work I do servicing people’s appliances in their homes. I’m never gonna wear any outerwear more than one day. I’m rolling around on people‘s kitchen and basement floor is constantly working on their machines. I would never wear a pair pants or shirt, but one day and of course I’m gonna change my socks and underwear T-shirts every day.

I own at least 30 pairs of work pants this time of year when it’s around freezing I always wear the heavy insulated pants so they’re pretty heavy, I own at least 50 or 60 pairs of socks the same for underwear T-shirts wouldn’t wanna guess how many shirts I own.

I have nothing against a machine that spins faster, but with our powerful gas dryers the difference of 10% moisture left in clothing is less than 10 minutes here and this is for a really large load, I don’t even see much difference from my machines that only spent at 800 RPMs versus the 1200 RPM machines the dryers are very powerful and economical to operate.

We’ve had a number of Meile , Asko and a whole variety of other 24 inch European sized washing machines in our possession over the years. They’re fun machines many are very well built. I just don’t find them very useful on a long-term basis because I can’t do big loads in them and I don’t wanna spend endless time in the basement doing laundry.

I have two front load washers with electric heaters, the German belt, KitchenAid pro line washer and the 20-year-old Speed Queen front load washer both have on board heaters. I’ve used them for a while when I first got the machines, but I really don’t find any benefit. I can’t imagine my laundry being any cleaner. The whites are just dazzlingly white. Everything is clean. I don’t have problems with stains in spite of the type of work I do, I am almost never see anything come out of the laundry that isn’t perfectly clean and acceptable.

I guess I’m a little spoiled having five gas dryers, I plan on putting in a sixth they’re currently 10 washing machines hooked up. They’re also three condenser style electric dryers which don’t get used much including the GE combination washer dryer.

Most important thing in life is everybody needs to be happy with what they’ve got and learned to use and work with it

 

[laundryguysf]

Reply number 46, hi Jon thanks for your detailed response, we do laundry a little differently here I guess I certainly do.

I’ve always loved doing laundry and I’d love to do a lot at the same time growing up in a family of seven I did all the family laundry from 1964 on, and even when we only had one washer and dryer it was still fun to go downstairs and sort everything and spend the evening doing laundry.

I sort things very thoroughly, currently with just my partner, and I I only do laundry every 3 to 4 weeks sometimes even a little longer, with the type of work I do servicing people’s appliances in their homes. I’m never gonna wear any outerwear more than one day. I’m rolling around on people‘s kitchen and basement floor is constantly working on their machines. I would never wear a pair pants or shirt, but one day and of course I’m gonna change my socks and underwear T-shirts every day.

I own at least 30 pairs of work pants this time of year when it’s around freezing I always wear the heavy insulated pants so they’re pretty heavy, I own at least 50 or 60 pairs of socks the same for underwear T-shirts wouldn’t wanna guess how many shirts I own.

I have nothing against a machine that spins faster, but with our powerful gas dryers the difference of 10% moisture left in clothing is less than 10 minutes here and this is for a really large load, I don’t even see much difference from my machines that only spent at 800 RPMs versus the 1200 RPM machines the dryers are very powerful and economical to operate.

We’ve had a number of Meile , Asko and a whole variety of other 24 inch European sized washing machines in our possession over the years. They’re fun machines many are very well built. I just don’t find them very useful on a long-term basis because I can’t do big loads in them and I don’t wanna spend endless time in the basement doing laundry.

I have two front load washers with electric heaters, the German belt, KitchenAid pro line washer and the 20-year-old Speed Queen front load washer both have on board heaters. I’ve used them for a while when I first got the machines, but I really don’t find any benefit. I can’t imagine my laundry being any cleaner. The whites are just dazzlingly white. Everything is clean. I don’t have problems with stains in spite of the type of work I do, I am almost never see anything come out of the laundry that isn’t perfectly clean and acceptable.

I guess I’m a little spoiled having five gas dryers, I plan on putting in a sixth they’re currently 10 washing machines hooked up. They’re also three condenser style electric dryers which don’t get used much including the GE combination washer dryer.

Most important thing in life is everybody needs to be happy with what they’ve got and learned to use and work with it

Well John after viewing your pictures and explanation, I can understand your position. You have a smorgasbord of machines to choose from, and I am a bit jealous. I grew up with Kenmore and Whirlpool laundry appliances, so I have a particular fondness for them. I must admit that if I could have a vintage Lady Kenmore matching Washer and Dryer, a vintage Whirlpool Imperial washer and dryer and a Lady Kenmore combination I would trade what I have without a second thought.