Who Makes These Vacuums?

[phillymatt53]

Thank you for sharing this! Another thing about Oreck is they are loud! First time I heard one I was shocked! Awful, loud and first thought that went through my mind is that it could wake the zombies LOL.

My two Eureka uprights are not exactly quiet either, but I consider that the noise is only a temprary thing to deal with, besides, they're built like tanks.
I also have a newer Hoover WindTunnel "steerable" upright "bagless" instead of a bag. - and it's got great suction and is quite a bit quieter than the Eureka's.

 

[panasonicvac]

If you want my honest opinion, don't get that Kenmore. While it does work and has some impressive performance numbers, you'd be getting a downgrade from your other Kenmore. The hose is shorter. There's extra wiring and circuitry because the brushroll can spin backwards when you pull it back, may sound like a cool idea but that's just shorting the life of the machine. From what I've seen, it's no different than the ones that were made by Panasonic. If you feel like you're dead on set for another Kenmore, get the 31140 instead. That one doesn't use the direct drive brushroll, way more simpler but the belt is designed to last a lifetime. Or for canisters, get the 81214 because it's also way more simpler. If you're interested in a Eureka from phillymatt53, you'd be happy to hear that you can still get one of those today under Eureka's commercial brand called Sanitaire. Those will blow an Oreck out of the water but you are going to be changing the belts out constantly and you'd be replacing the fan out once in a while especially if you accidentally sucked something up that you shouldn't because the motor is before the bag. That's what I like about SEBO especially the X4 is that it's got a lifetime belt warranty for as long as you own it and anything that you suck up, it's not going to hurt the fan because the motor is after the bag.

 

[Chetlaham]

Whoa! I did not know that. Do you have a particular model of Sanitaire in mind?

 

[william8]

Or for canisters, get the 81214 because it's also way more simpler. I

How is it simpler? Looks like the same design as the 400, with no variable speed, or adjustable wand length. And it doesn't come with 2 extra bags (three total on the 400). Those features seem well worth $10 extra.

The 400 has so much suction, that I can't vacuum throw rugs without cutting the power in half. Full power just grabs smaller rugs and rolls them up!

Honest question, have you used any of these Kenmore canisters?

 

[petek]

I just got a SEBO K3 at our Restore for $30 a few months ago and it works beautifully after I put a new brushroll in it. I got a clone brushroll on Amazon for dirt cheap and some clone bags.. They are identical to the brand name parts. I looked closely.. It's a great vacuum , powerful and best of all so quiet. Years ago I got a top of the line Miele Allervac at the Restore for $75 with power brush and two hoses,, one electrificed the other not. Super vacuum as well but I do prefer the SEBO which is a little smaller and lighter but just as good. It's surprising how often decent vacs show up at Restore and most people are clueless what they're walking past.

 

[panasonicvac]

How is it simpler? Looks like the same design as the 400, with no variable speed, or adjustable wand length. And it doesn't come with 2 extra bags (three total on the 400). Those features seem well worth $10 extra.

The 400 has so much suction, that I can't vacuum throw rugs without cutting the power in half. Full power just grabs smaller rugs and rolls them up!

Honest question, have you used any of these Kenmore canisters?

I was comparing that Kenmore to the 600 and Elite models that are more different, I apologize for the confusion that I should've added in. To answer your question, yes my last experience was with a green model. I'm personally not a huge fan of variable speed controls or telescoping wands but I'd still take those over any of the 600 or Elite models.

Whoa! I did not know that. Do you have a particular model of Sanitaire in mind?

Honestly, I've been having a harder time recommending Sanitaire ever since Bissell took over as they used to be owned by Eureka's parent company Electrolux. From previously working at a vacuum store, Bissell was a struggle to deal with hence why that store eventually dropped Bissell as a dealer. That being said, the SC688B would be the one I'd choose if I had to have a Sanitaire. But what I'd recommend instead is the Bissell Big Green BG101H. The reason why is because they still use the classic metal motors that the older Eureka Sanitaires had before switching over to the plastic motors which aren't as reliable. And they also use a better brushroll especially if you have pet hair.

 

[william8]

Last Green Kenmore I had was in the 90's, when they were still made by Panasonic. Not sure which you are talking about, the only green (mint) one available now doesn't even have a powerhead.

 

[panasonicvac]

It was a BC3060 that I'm pretty sure has since been discontinued. Personally, green is my all time favorite color on a vacuum. In fact my all time favorite Kenmore canister happens to be green which is this 2621 that was made by Panasonic.

 

[vacerator]

We considered a Miele or a Sebo when our 30 year old Hoover Central VAC died last spring. A replacement relay couldn't be fitted to it. I replaced the motor two years ago for $110. Bags and filters for the Miele and Sebo are expensive and they still need periodic cleaning and maintenance. We got a new Vacuflo Central power unit instead. $1,000 with tax.
Most people buy a Dyson, Shark, or other portable vacuums. I think the Kenmore is fine for the money and it will outlast others.

 

[phillymatt53]

Personally, the color of a vacuum doesn't make a difference to me.
It's not something that I use to decorate the home with.
It's used to clean up the house and stored in a closet afterwords.
The important thing to me is the build quality, performance and the reliabiility.

 

[pstehle]

I don't need a light bulb... if I can't see under the bed, the dust bunnies don't count. Mom put in a Pullman central system in the 1970's. They're out of that business, but Beam still sells a good quality line. I've always hated dragging a canister around, catching on every corner and piece of furniture, and an upright has it's issues as well. As far as vacuum, you at least used to be able to get a central unit with two motors, and as long as it's installed with the right pipe and junctions, they'll suck the paint off any other kind... Plus, you only have to swap out the bag once a year or so. Not feasible for every home or budget, but excellent if so.

 

[Chetlaham]

Can I ask, what does the motor look like on the Sanitare? Does it burn up if something stalls the fan?

I've never used a vacuum where the motor was before the bag.

So far the replies and convo is GOLD

 

[phillymatt53]

Can I ask, what does the motor look like on the Sanitare? Does it burn up if something stalls the fan?

I've never used a vacuum where the motor was before the bag.

So far the replies and convo is GOLD

From what I remember, the fan is on a round motor shaft, made of high strength plastic, and held by a threaded nut.
So the fan blades would break off if solid objects hit it.
And replacement is cheap and easy as replacing the belt, which lasts a long time if used for normal dirt.
Early Eureka's had cast aluminum fans which was long ago discontinued in order to protect the motor.

 

[Chetlaham]

From what I remember, the fan is on a round motor shaft, made of high strength plastic, and held by a threaded nut.
So the fan blades would break off if solid objects hit it.
And replacement is cheap and easy as replacing the belt, which lasts a long time if used for normal dirt.
Early Eureka's had cast aluminum fans which was long ago discontinued in order to protect the motor.

Elegant beyond words, but with an achlies heal. I like LOL.

Now, what you've gotten me wondering. Universal motors draw vary, very high currents when stalled and do not have the same level of thermal mass like an induction motor. Now, if hypothetically speaking, the motor stalled out from foreign object ingress, would the kilixon trip before the motor burned out? Should these vacuums have a fuse in them like some blenders to prevent motor burn out, or at least a smokey motor burn out?

 

[phillymatt53]

Elegant beyond words, but with an achlies heal. I like LOL.

Now, what you've gotten me wondering. Universal motors draw vary, very high currents when stalled and do not have the same level of thermal mass like an induction motor. Now, if hypothetically speaking, the motor stalled out from foreign object ingress, would the kilixon trip before the motor burned out? Should these vacuums have a fuse in them like some blenders to prevent motor burn out, or at least a smokey motor burn out?

If the motor was stalled, it would simply blow the house circuit breaker.
Those motors when running drew around 6 amps.

 

[panasonicvac]

This gives an idea of what's inside a Sanitaire. Personally for home use, it should be fine. But I wouldn't suggest one for commercial use unless if you're installing in new carpet for a living.

 

[phillymatt53]

Yes, those Sanitaires, and the commercial / home versions are tough machines, but only if used "properly".
If you're a careless slob and leave screws, bolts, nails, marbles, etc laying around the floor, it's called...... abuse.
Just like putting a bowling ball in a washer to clean it.

 

[Chetlaham]

If the motor was stalled, it would simply blow the house circuit breaker.
Those motors when running drew around 6 amps.

Did this happen to you? Did the motor survive. That is interesting to know that the time current curve of a 15 amp breaker can protect a universal motor. Way cool if so! I love such designs.

I remember the Kenmore power foot in the previous canister vacuum had a pop-out bi-metal breaker that would trip if the brushes got caught up in a rug or garment on the floor. Once removed you pushed the button in and the power foot would work again.

 

[phillymatt53]

Did this happen to you? Did the motor survive. That is interesting to know that the time current curve of a 15 amp breaker can protect a universal motor. Way cool if so! I love such designs.

Yes it did, Chet, once, back in the 80's.
I accidentally picked up a nail that I didn't see under the sofa.
The nail shot into the fan chamber and took out several fan blades, plus it shot threw the fan chamber housing and made a terrible racket.
Some JB Weld epoxy to seal up the hole in the fan chamber wall, a new fan,, all was well again.
I keep spare belts and a few fans around.
But it hasn't happened in decades.

 

[Chetlaham]

Yes it did, Chet, once, back in the 80's.
I accidentally picked up a nail that I didn't see under the sofa.
The nail shot into the fan chamber and took out several fan blades, plus it shot threw the fan chamber housing and made a terrible racket.
Some JB Weld epoxy to seal up the hole in the fan chamber wall, a new fan,, all was well again.
I keep spare belts and a few fans around.
But it hasn't happened in decades.

What breakers did you have at the time?

I know what you went through was awful, but it showed that the vacuum motor with breaker provided worked together elegantly complimenting each other to protect a simple, reliability design with great utility.

Makes me think of putting a plug fuse in my vacuum and other appliances LOL.



With one of these near the motor's rated current and of course sized and selected to handle inrush.

 

[phillymatt53]

What breakers did you have at the time?

I know what you went through was awful, but it showed that the vacuum motor with breaker provided worked together elegantly complimenting each other to protect a simple, reliability design with great utility.

Makes me think of putting a plug fuse in my vacuum and other appliances LOL.

View attachment 320085

With one of these near the motor's rated current and of course sized and selected to handle inrush.

View attachment 320086

A bit of overkill Chet, but hey, it's up to you.

 

[Chetlaham]

This gives an idea of what's inside a Sanitaire. Personally for home use, it should be fine. But I wouldn't suggest one for commercial use unless if you're installing in new carpet for a living.

The Sanitaire wears down carpet?

I also wonder why the screws for the top cover can't be made to be accessed from the top unless I missed something in the video. Just seems it would make a power cord change out easier. BTW, that motor looks awful. I'd want a better motor.

 

[Chetlaham]

A bit of overkill Chet, but hey, it's up to you.

Well, if the 15 amp breaker takes care of it, it would be much me overkill. The best solutions are those which are simple solving the most problems along the way.

 

[Chetlaham]

And, forgive me again lol, but I notice the SEBO has no gasket on the bag? How does the bag slip in, out and fit It looks like the bag could misalign and not seal?

The SEBO motor. Is it brush, electronic, induction, ect?

I've learned so much thus far. I can't thank you enough.

 

[panasonicvac]

The metal hood is held onto two springs and a height adjuster knob which you remove by taking a screw out, not a huge fan of the design which is why I'd recommend the SC688B. Or if you want a better motor, that's where the Bissell Big Green BG101H comes in cause they still use metal motors.

The X4 doesn't need to have a gasket in the bag because there's already a rubber seal in the internal cover. The way the bag works is there's a lever inside the bag door. If you open the bag door latch up, the lever pulls the bag down from the internal cover. And if you close the latch down, the lever pushes the bag up to the internal cover. It's designed that way because it makes changing the bag alot easier. Also what's so cool about the X4 is if you try to put the cover back on without a bag inside, it's not going to shut properly alerting the user that there's no bag inside. Same goes if you don't have a microfilter inside, it won't shut the cover for you either. If you hadn't seen that from the X4 review video I shared yesterday, I invite you to do so. It's 40 minutes long but it basically covers everything you'd need to know about the machine. The motor is brushed but the brushes are replaceable, this is from my X5 that I dismantled for refurbishment to give you an idea of what's inside. It's the same thing as the X4 but the brushroll is wider. They don't make those models anymore but they do make an X8 that's similar with a few improvements.

 

[petek]

This is my $30 Canadian Sebo K3 with power nozzle and Parque floor brush. One of the nice things about this make is that you can get parts relatively inexpensive either online or at a dealer they’re not disposable vacuums.

 

[panasonicvac]

That's a very nice K3 for $30! I like that this onyx (black) version is one of the only few that you could upgrade to a ET-2 power nozzle in the same color, the others being red and white. My favorite is the pastel mint version because it's got more of a green color since I mentioned earlier that green is my favorite color on a vacuum.

 

[Chetlaham]

The metal hood is held onto two springs and a height adjuster knob which you remove by taking a screw out, not a huge fan of the design which is why I'd recommend the SC688B. Or if you want a better motor, that's where the Bissell Big Green BG101H comes in cause they still use metal motors.

The X4 doesn't need to have a gasket in the bag because there's already a rubber seal in the internal cover. The way the bag works is there's a lever inside the bag door. If you open the bag door latch up, the lever pulls the bag down from the internal cover. And if you close the latch down, the lever pushes the bag up to the internal cover. It's designed that way because it makes changing the bag alot easier. Also what's so cool about the X4 is if you try to put the cover back on without a bag inside, it's not going to shut properly alerting the user that there's no bag inside. Same goes if you don't have a microfilter inside, it won't shut the cover for you either. If you hadn't seen that from the X4 review video I shared yesterday, I invite you to do so. It's 40 minutes long but it basically covers everything you'd need to know about the machine. The motor is brushed but the brushes are replaceable, this is from my X5 that I dismantled for refurbishment to give you an idea of what's inside. It's the same thing as the X4 but the brushroll is wider. They don't make those models anymore but they do make an X8 that's similar with a few improvements.

Wait, the SEBO X4 has the fan before the bag or am I mixing things up? Can the SEBO swallow paper clips? I know my Intution can suck up anything and everything hard as long as it is not to big and not damage the vaccuum.

The Big Green appears to come with a bag, and if I ever do go that route I'll choose that over the Sanitaire.

Interesting how everything is so different and varied with Vaccuums.

 

[Chetlaham]

Ok, so it looks like the SC688B also has a disposable bag. But going by the schematic it appears like the big green now has a plastic motor?


https://www.bissellcommercial.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/BG101HSchematic.pdf

 

[jrap330]

I am planning on buying a new Vacuum. These look like genuine Kenmores, but they look to real and to good to be true. I thought Sears went under and genuine Kenmore quality is no longer a thing. Also, which version is better?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075DZY7FR

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08M36B5JZ

The Panasonic , Kenmore, whoever still gets good reviews on Consumers so does Miele except Miele cost a lot more. So does Shark. So find a vacuum dealer and try a few machines and no matter what anyone states, you do not need a machine that last forever...it is not a expensive Washer or dryer. Too many " expert" opinions on something as simple as a vacuum. You might want a light weight machine which usually may nut clean as well as a heavy machine.