Who thinks moderns of washers of today should bring back true wash and rinse tempatures?

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You must have some very forgiving

users combo52 or given the close proximity to Metro DC, they must be as dumb as the politicians we elect.

Either that or you service a very small area indeed.

You want proof?

Go to Amazon. Type in any model SQ TL. Read the comments. Over 70% have something that reads "......I got rid of my _______ (fill in the blank HE machine) and got a SQ. My laundry is now clean". Ad infinitum. Or just check out a host of review sites like epinions for instance.

Sorry to disagree with you, but there is no proven need to castrate a washing machines ability to properly wash clothes. None. There is no water shortage on this planet. Never has been, never will be.

The EPA has gotten way out of whack with arbitrary rules that make no sense and result in a plethora of garbage appliances that don't last and perform poorly.

In the interest of "being green", I now have to pay $5.99 for 20 Cascade "pods" to wash my dishes. Funny, I used to buy a 75 oz box of Cascade or Finish for a lot less money and had clean dishes along with less cost per use to boot. Explain that one to me if you dare. So it has Algore's blessing. So it uses less water. Big flippin deal. How, as a consumer, am I making out financially here?

Explain how we're all "benefiting" with $4.00 gallon gas? Come next month, us poor sods in PA will see our electricity bills go up. Way up thanks to the moron in charge and his war on coal fired power plants. My salary sure as hell has not increased to keep pace let me tell you.

So all in all, myself along with millions of other Americans, are paying a lot more for our so-called green energy, forced to buy machines not mandated by market driven ideas or demand but rather asinine goobermint intervention, pay to buy special cleaners for these piss poor excuses of a machine and sit back and eat up another Algore speech on how the world will end as we know it unless we all bow down and pay homage to the all knowing, all intelligent EPA and Al's ideals.
I suppose this makes sense to some people but not to me.

FYI CR, a rather poor substitute for toilet paper by the way, will NEVER test a SQ TL. Never. Even if you or I show up on their doorstep with one, it will never happen. Why? Because it does not fit their "green" agenda. CR only tests things that dovetail with their leftist idea of how the world ought to be. In fact, I do have some old copies from the 50's and 60's, intact where they actually tested firearms! Can you believe that? So why don't they test them now? Why don't they test entry level motorbikes? They used to.

I put about as much value in CR as I do whenever the moron-in-chief opens his mouth.

Which is to say, never.
 
Wait a second...

What the hell are you throwing together?
1st: How many SQ TLs have been sold? How many HE machines? And why do all people write reviews about their SQ Tls in which they mentioned a bad HE machine? Yea, maybe, because they bought a SQ TL because they did not like the HE machines and thus bought a SQ. So, a good review on a SQis in no way conected to the number of customers that are convinced by HE machines. All people who like their HE machines tell that on the reviews of that HE machine and people who like their SQ tell that on a SQ review. I bet there are some people out there who had a SQ TL but found it to be to waistfull and to expensive to run and thus switched over to a HE machine that convinced them.
2nd: There is no water shortage on this planet. Aha. So, why do millions of Africans have no clean water to drink? Why does even the water resovoir our town rests on go low nearly each summer now? And keep in mind: Our summers are not that extrem. And there is proof. There have been several proofs and tests on that topic. And, if water is nor rare, why does your water bill go up and up as ours does?
3rd: Well, you don't have to buy such expensive DW detergent. You can go cheap. And at least for me, it worked. And, if you don't save, why did you buy your DW? I mean, you love your SQ, but it does save nothing. An is in o way green at all. Just to get it right: Yor DW is green but your laundry isn't?
4th: You are not benefiting by 4$ gas. It is just fact that oil is getting low on our earth. And nobody said that. Everybody hates that. And it is in NO POSSIBLE WAY conected to a dumbed down temp on a washer.
And now to washer111: I think, you started at a wrong point. A washer that wants to wash in true hot water and hit the HE requirements has to be FL today. But the dumbed down temps are not necessary. They dumb them down to look good for the customer. Dumbed down temps are not 100% made by the goverment. They gave requirements, but most just want to get beneath that level to be better that the others.
 
I think it would best if we

Let's just slow down with insults and denigrations, can't discuss much about combo's customers or people who likes HE machines can't really deny that there are, like nobody can't deny there are folks hating them, I don't know these HE customers combos talks about as I don't know ones putting good ratings in various websites, as I don't know ones doing the opposite even though I share their experience, so don't know their laundry habits or expectations or canons ....they could actually be happy with what they got, after all, you have tons people claiming washing in cold but running industrial chlorine quantities for their whites...or also people washing with 1 spoon of soap, there are really thousands cases we could not mention, take in exam or discuss here....anyway can't speak for them except but my own, you can say they're likely dumb and can't recognize a clean wash, they could say you're likely dumb because you can't use HE properly to get clean wash. All on the base of individual/personal and different cases. So? There is no actual and factual point to go further and speak, and going over and over in speeches unless you take in exams really countless aspects ....we'll not get anything from it.
I think and know I am not dumb as much as they think and knows I am in their heads. Do we really wanna go ahead... I think it's lost time on both the sides of discussion.
Can't really see where this will lead.
But we can keep pacifically speak experiences and thoughts and report all the ones of who experienced and think about it like us...and defend our ideas to be accepted as we should accept others as long as we do not get too much off topic.

You can also call in cause any national consumer bullettin reports you wish thinking you are showing undeniable thruts....but I could easily reply goverments has his "fingers"everywhere....and it has been widely known since kinda always that when they want people to believe something they surely have any tools to accomplish that in any ways they can, and will do that.

As everyone and every situation is different, we have no right to determine and do pseudo-authoritarian speeches as indivuduals or as an online community on what's universally smarter or dumber, right or wrong when it comes in machines preference...otherwise we do the same thing of the govt.
I think that to make things ok:
We just have to think what REALLY makes everyone happy, bothways no matter what......as long as there is tolerance and freedom for everyone there's nothing to argue or fight about, and anyways surely not blame, attack or even emphathize like undeniable universal thruths both ones having good or bad experiences and findings about HE, as long as they both don't think you should be the same of them and force you to believe all what they believe into (so for those believing in green theories and all that matter)....it's allright in co-existence.

Finaly all this will likely and almost inevitably boil down to fully political:
You can say it's right or wrong what gov is doing, you are entitled to your views.
We can turn this discussion in another controversial endless economic- ecological-political one and have it turned on dirty forum as well, like the dryers one... really endless and really " hell-hot"topic.

BUT
I also think
Automaticwasher.org is surely not the place where worlds or today's America's problems will be solved.....so rants for rants, little use they'll have.
So sometimes It's just better to " get a grip" or avoid going on heavy discussions.

But I admit myself this isn't often easy..... Heck it is not!

[this post was last edited: 6/25/2014-17:23]
 
You raise a good point, henene, at least in regards to my post.

Unfortunately, what looks good on paper often isn't in practice. Look at all the dead washer, car and dishwasher designs that never made it!

The other issue is WHY is the government meddling with home appliances where the white elephant in the room is industry, but ALSO nonrenewable power generation?
They need not raise fuel prices, ban hot water, less "efficient" washers/dryers and so on, if they regulated the polluters and pushed harder for change.

It is CLEAR what is happening is just a "feel good" means of claiming we have made progress when we haven't.

At the risk of starting a war - I honestly don't consider Ben's thread political. If we want political, I'm sure he can give us a big scoop :)
 
I most assuredly could washer111

but I won't.

Just too tired right now. 2 nights of intense storms left me with about 4 hours sleep total. Really dragging right now. Can't even stay focused on the Karate Kid. As Mr. Han would say, my focus needs more focus.
 
"Politics in a thread again where it doesn't belong."

It's impossible to discuss this subject without it, at least here in the U.S.
 

"CR, a rather poor substitute for toilet paper by the way, will NEVER test a SQ TL. Never. Even if you or I show up on their doorstep with one, it will never happen."

Consumer Reports has tested the Speed Queen AWN542 top-loader.  They also tested the top-of-the-line SQ front-loader, but the top-loader is the one in question, here.

Speed Queen AWN542:  Overall score of 29

Washing Performance:  Good

Energy Efficiency:  Good

Water Efficiency:  Poor

Capacity:  Good

Gentleness:  Good

Noise:  Good

For the sake of comparison, their top-ranked top-loader is the LG WT5680HVA:  Overall score of 73

Washing Performance:  Excellent

Energy Efficiency:  Very Good

Water Efficiency:  Very Good

Capacity:  Excellent

Gentleness:  Good

Noise:  Very Good

EDIT: I do not know why everything is quadruple-spaced in this post. I activated the Editing Bar and this is how it turned out. Deactivated it for this addendum. Just wanted to make sure everyone understood I wasn't vying for "Largest Post Of The Week" or anything, LOL.

frigilux-2014062519495201183_1.jpg

frigilux-2014062519495201183_2.jpg
 
Well Frig I stand corrected

See, I haven't subscribed in many years nor do I even look at them in the supermarket.

Thus, my SQ will safely reside in it's current location until sometime next year when I raise the scratch to buy a home.
 
Not a problem, Ben; just wanted to clarify.

Full disclosure to members: I own an AWN542, although it is not my daily driver. Despite the difference in scores between the LG and the SQ, I am purchasing an SQ pair for my sister on her birthday next month. I'm not a fan of impeller-based top-loaders. She and her husband just moved to a condo and the Whirlpool pair left behind by the former owners are on their last legs. She is used to using top-loaders, and I think the very traditional SQ will be the best fit for her. They don't produce much laundry, so the energy costs won't be an issue.

Personally, I am a strong proponent of modern front-loaders, which provide great cleaning, large capacity, ultra-fast spin speeds, and superior water and energy efficiency.[this post was last edited: 6/25/2014-21:29]
 
It is my understanding that LG solved the "exploding" problem with their new models (like the one referenced above) which have metal support brackets for the suspension rods, heavier-duty shock absorbers, and air bags.

Of course, that doesn't excuse them for having produced the exploding top-loaders in the first place--and then "fixing" the recalled models via software changes that radically reduced spin speeds. File under: Shoddy Corporate Behavior[this post was last edited: 6/25/2014-21:35]
 
"It's impossible to discuss this subject without it, at least here in the U.S."

>> But not in "Deluxe" but in "Dirty Laundry" according to the rules.

So the thread may or may not be misplaced, according to the rules and how the admins feel about it. It's a separate issue from the above requirement.
 
I think we're conflating issues here...

The issue of wash temps must be separate from the issue of efficient use of energy and water. Why? because oil, grease, and other stains do not change the temps at which they dissolve/change state/etc. simply because of the tools or resources we humans have available. More simply put: Human skin oil will not start melting at a lower temp in response to a government mandate. It is not physically possible that 'the government' (as if it were a person) could know what wash or rinse temps are best for a given load of laundry. The operator of the washer does. Period. 'The government' cannot be right, except by accident.

If the government were actually concerned with conservation of resources, it'd subsidize the cost of the most efficient FLs to make them a better investment in both short and long terms. The less water a given washer uses, the less it should cost the consumer UP FRONT. Even then, it should let the operator decide the temps and cycles.

Jim
 
In regards to the reason the majority of people with HE impeller style washers are unhappy with them, just watch this video. Skip towards the middle if you want to get to the "action". This is with a decent sized load of clothes, and yet there is barely any water to be seen, and the clothes are hardly moving, much less wet. I have heard of these washers working well, but 9/10 of those people that have said that also stated that it worked well with only small loads, where the clothes can move and flex. I take most reviews with a grain of salt; Consumer Reports is a regulated joke, and I quickly dismiss anything that uses simple phrases like "Great washer" or "I love it", but you can tell when a review is sincere because they actually go into a bit of detail about what they like, along with what they dislike, and when you read the detailed reviews from people that are unhappy with their product, they all align with the same sentence "The clothes barely move, and some are even still dry". What's more, you can find many videos of these washers, all with the same results.

The point is, you simply can't get good results with the amount of water these machines use, regardless of how it operates. There's just not enough for it to flow through the clothes and suspend the dirt and soap. The lack of hot, or even decently warm water furthers the problem, because no matter what the "engineers" or DOE think, oils and most dirt can't liquefy and break loose without heat.

I think it will get to a point where health concerns will emerge, and most likely it will be from long term effects of what's being put in our detergents. We're taking away all the natural resources that are needed to perform well, and replacing them with strong chemicals to do the job that common sense physics does perfectly already. I don't know why money is not being invested more into finding ways to recycle our water more efficiently, only to be told that we just need to use less (I wouldn't be surprised if one day we're told to adjust our bodies to need less water as well), and why it's okay for chemicals to replace what heat does naturally, but like some of the other points stated earlier, that's for a different forum.

 
My ideal washer, if I had no choice but to own an HE TL or FL, would be first and foremost something that gave me the option to use what I needed. If a washer complied with regulations on default settings but also allowed the user to choose true hot tap water when needed, or increase the water level for extra heavy loads *without* using the "Bulky/Bedding" cycle, I think both sides would be happy.

Washers used to have that choice, like the Maytag Atlantis with the Auto Temp control option. You COULD use it if you wanted and it would regulate the temperature to save energy, but you weren't forced to. The same goes for ATC units now. It's not that we don't welcome the idea of the machine saving hot water for the sake of lowering energy use, but hot water is a requirement now and then, and the consumer should be allowed to disable the ATC in those scenarios. Give me a washer that allows me to do that without jumping through hoops to hack into the machine, and I'll gladly use the normal eco settings under everyday conditions.
 
Agreed, Andrew ...

"The point is, you simply can't get good results with the amount of water these machines use, regardless of how it operates. There's just not enough for it to flow through the clothes and suspend the dirt and soap. The lack of hot, or even decently warm water furthers the problem, because no matter what the "engineers" or DOE think, oils and most dirt can't liquefy and break loose without heat."

I feel the same way about Swiffers and floors.

I'm sorry, but you simply cannot get the same clean as you get with a bucket of hot water, cleanser, and tons of elbow grease.
 
Eugene, I would have used a different word than regulated, but imo CR lost their credibility years ago. Instead of objective testing, they start with their own subjective and presupposed lists of industry and/or government-driven "features" most important to THEM (e.g. for washer reviews, ridiculously limited water consumption), and then proceed to rate items against these subjective expectations. It's pretty much useless for anything other than marketing purposes, and misleading consumers into asking the wrong questions about consumer goods.
 

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