Who would be interested in getting new Maytag pitman agitator shafts?

[lorainfurniture]

An Idea

First, I need a bit more information.

1. It looks like the 2 bronze bushings on the top cover of the trans are not sold separately. Does anyone know the specific dimensions? alternate source? Maybe a hidden part number?

2. I was wondering: Why cant I just install a very thin stainless steel or chromed sleeve? Something where the ID (inside diameter) is nearly exact, and only 1/32 wall so it will only increase the overall diameter by 1/16th. Really I believe a 1/16th thickness would work fine as the seal is pretty flexible. Like the same principle of the main spin bearing that mounts to the outer tub. It could be installed with a small amount of epoxy to really seal it to the shaft.

Im meeting with a machine shop Monday so Ill keep you all updated.

 

[lorainfurniture]

@ qsd-dan

I mostly agree with you but a dose of reality may help you see my way.

You are 100% correct in your process to rebuild these pitman trans to give another 40 years of service. However, most of the people who own these vintage machines are enthusiasts like use who will use them infrequently, and really old ladies. I think with a clean shaft and perhaps the top bushing as I can totally see that wearing out quickly once things get rough. Fresh oil is a must. Ive never seen the plastic gear break, ever. I have a couple of new ones somewhere, but I think a may never use them.

Basically, most of these machines are regulated to maybe a load or 3 a week at best. Even with a Half-assed rebuild I could reasonably expect these trannys to at very least outlast the rest of the machine, or the user lol. I think 20 years could be expected with a clean agitator shaft, bushing, and oil.

 

[lowefficiency]

There was someone else researching bronze bushings and shaft sleeves a month or two back - I can't remember the context - but I think they had found industrial suppliers that had whole catalogs full of both parts. I wouldn't be surprised if the bronze bushing is both the easiest (and cheapest!) part of this whole puzzle, as well as actually being the most important part of your (or Dan's) project's success.

Taking a step back, as long as the agitator splines are OK enough, one might not even need a new custom shaft at all? You could just machine down the lower agitator shaft OD a touch and use bronze bushings with a smaller ID (so no sleeve required)... and then the upper shaft (where the lip seal rides) could be machined and sleeved so it is smooth for the seal.

That wouldn't really be practical in quantity though unless you had quite a pile of worn out donor transmissions...

 

[gansky1]

Put me on the list for a couple - thanks for doing the legwork here, Eugene!

 

[lowefficiency]

>> Even with a Half-assed rebuild I could reasonably expect these trannys to at very
>> least outlast the rest of the machine, or the user lol. I think 20 years could be
>> expected with a clean agitator shaft, bushing, and oil.

I'd go so far as to say that in another 20 years, so many other parts will be NLA that rebuilding one will be impractical regardless of the condition of the agitator shaft.

And at that point, it doesn't really matter if you're an enthusiast or not - or how badly you want to do the project - because aftermarket companies will have ended parts production long ago due to low demand from the general population. Parts simply won't be available.

 

[qsd-dan]

"I'd go so far as to say that in another 20 years, so many other parts will be NLA that rebuilding one will be impractical regardless of the condition of the agitator shaft."

Which is precisely why my restorations are so in-depth. Do it right and it'll last another 40 years. I also stockpiled parts for the future. For over a decade, I have countless posts on this site urging members to stock parts and perform a detailed rebuild before it's too late. Once those parts are gone, it's game over. We're now officially here.

 

[lorainfurniture]

Anything can be rebuilt or re- created.

I will admit washers are the most difficult. I frequently fabricate some stove parts and they are 80+ years old. It’s nice to find a nos part on eBay and just replace it, but sometimes you have to rebuild.

Back on topic, I still will visit a machine shop soon to see about making me shafts. What I think is ideal would be a custom fit stainless steel sleeve to fit over the shaft that touches the seal. The plus side is that this sleeve would fit all agitator shafts as they are all the same diameter.

This won’t be a solution for every application but I think it could take care of 90%

 

[bradfordwhite]

Shhh-h-h don't tell the guys who have their fingers in their ears. lol

Oh-h, they're not going to see this anyway.

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[qsd-dan]

Don't tell the guys who have their fingers in their ears

When a 3-d printer spits out a functioning timer, pressure switch, and brake package, I'll be impressed.

For parts that can be replicated, quality and durability standards will need to be factored in. If quality standards meet OEM (longshot), price will be the next hurdle. That doesn't include the exorbitant upfront charge to design the product.

I'll just take the easy way out, reach into my parts stash, and grab whatever I need.

 

[bradfordwhite]

In case you don't realize it, an analog timer is not a single part. It is in fact a combination of parts of varying materials. It is an appliance in and of itself. As a result, a 3D printer will have to make each part individually and they would need to be assembled.

I'm not a 3D parts expert. I just thought I'd bring it to your attention so you wouldn't have to pull out the kiln, sand forms and who knows what other "old worldy" type stuff that can probably be found in an abandoned Pennsylvania manufacturing town.

This place says they can do any size order and they have 60 different types of metal and plastic. Maybe they have the proper forged metal for a gear.
Or maybe it can be heat treated after the fact.

 

[bradfordwhite]

As for those Amish desperate to get their hands on

a Maytag gear.

They are evolving. Many now have solar electric, cel phones, computers, Internet businesses, and they are also migrating westward.

Because of their thrifty ways, I would not be surprised if many are now considering......a front loader. (collective gasp)

Those 4,975 extra gears that would most likely be left over from the original 5,000 planned, it might be a minor mistake to think the Amish were going to rush in and buy most at no doubt inflated prices.

In fact, they'd probably prefer you "donate" them.

Of course then there is the question of how many Amish members actually know how to fix a Maytag washer. Many have limited 'real world' education, I doubt they've tinkered with old appliances back at the cabin before the sunset in their formative years.

I hope you don't end up with box after box of gears stuck in the back corner of your garage for your family to inherit some day, but...sometimes that's the end result of persistence.

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[Ultramatic]

 

 

I wrote about 3D printing years ago. Want a 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air? Give me a few hours. An agitator for a 1959 Norge? Coming right up. 3D printing will profoundly change our lives. From consumer goods, to food, to human body parts. It's whats next.

 

[robbinsandmyers]

Amish

I never underestimate those people. They're very hard working, determined, and when they set out to do something do just that. Even though they have restrictions on what modern toys to make life easier they can use as dictated by their faith, they did use old cast iron 2 cylinder Wisconsin engines from the 50's-70's on their farm machinery and I've been to auctions where they paid dearly to get them and would buy as many as they could get their hands on. They're also money hungry and love to collect it but never spend it so not afraid of work. If anyone could reproduce these cost effectively it would be the Amish on either PA, IN or OH.

 

[qsd-dan]

In case you don't realize it, an analog timer is not a s

I've been inside many old timers but most 3D printing is for a mold which is then used as a cast for the material being reproduced. It doesn't go directly into service hot off of the 3D printing press.

Ever been inside the workings of a Kingston timer motor? There's a whole lotta plastic gears inside those and I'd hate to see the bill to reproduce each one. If catastrophic failure occurs and the gears are too badly chewed up, good luck getting proper dimensions for the printer.

The process from start to finish is much more complicated and expensive than pushing a button and spiting out a part. One must have deep pockets up front to cover the initial expense. There also must be enough demand to cover those expenses. God forbid cheap materials are used in the final product and your reputation is forever destroyed.

 

[lowefficiency]

Timers are an interesting one. While perhaps one of the most complicated parts of a machine design, they are also one which is uniquely suitable to be fully replaced with alternate technology. You don't necessarily "have" to repair them like-for-like.

If you look at problems like the NLA door seals for the front-load Keymatics, that's a dead-end until you can reproduce the part, and you're not likely to stray too far from the original design. But an electromechanical timer is ripe for replacement by electronics - and depending on what has failed and how rare the parts are (or as mentioned above, how much engineering work it would take to reproduce them), it might end up being quite a bit cheaper to fully replace the timer with something 100% different than what was there 40 years ago.

 

[DADoES]

 
I imagine much of the aim in restoration or repair of a vintage machine, at least for collectors, is to maintain the originality of the mechanisms.

 

[lowefficiency]

Yes of course. My comment is mostly in the context of that 20-40 year outlook, where keeping full authenticity might no longer be possible. Basically making the distinction that, to keep a machine operable, the timer is a part that can be fully substituted with something entirely different. Whereas, other parts... your only choice is to repair or recreate them to match the originals.

 

[lowefficiency]

One of Eugene's rebuilt transmissions popped up in my eBay feed.
Glad to see that you're up and running refurbishing and selling these.

 

[chef]

Are all the Pitman transmissions A412, A510, A512, A612, A613, A712 compatible and can interchange parts?

 

[maytag85]

Reply #37

They are all the same I believe. Wouldn’t be cost effective to use a completely different style of transmission for every machine in your lineup unless you are a large corporation like General Motors back in the 60’s where you have different divisions (really a large company that owns different smaller companies) and can have different brands of appliances using different layouts and designs to complete with other outside companies and other divisions owned by the same company as well.