I wrote about 3D printing years ago. Want a 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air? Give me a few hours. An agitator for a 1959 Norge? Coming right up. 3D printing will profoundly change our lives. From consumer goods, to food, to human body parts. It's whats next.
Who would be interested in getting new Maytag pitman agitator shafts?
- Thread starter lorainfurniture
- Start date
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I wrote about 3D printing years ago. Want a 1955 Chevrolet Bel Air? Give me a few hours. An agitator for a 1959 Norge? Coming right up. 3D printing will profoundly change our lives. From consumer goods, to food, to human body parts. It's whats next.
Amish
I never underestimate those people. They're very hard working, determined, and when they set out to do something do just that. Even though they have restrictions on what modern toys to make life easier they can use as dictated by their faith, they did use old cast iron 2 cylinder Wisconsin engines from the 50's-70's on their farm machinery and I've been to auctions where they paid dearly to get them and would buy as many as they could get their hands on. They're also money hungry and love to collect it but never spend it so not afraid of work. If anyone could reproduce these cost effectively it would be the Amish on either PA, IN or OH.
I never underestimate those people. They're very hard working, determined, and when they set out to do something do just that. Even though they have restrictions on what modern toys to make life easier they can use as dictated by their faith, they did use old cast iron 2 cylinder Wisconsin engines from the 50's-70's on their farm machinery and I've been to auctions where they paid dearly to get them and would buy as many as they could get their hands on. They're also money hungry and love to collect it but never spend it so not afraid of work. If anyone could reproduce these cost effectively it would be the Amish on either PA, IN or OH.
In case you don't realize it, an analog timer is not a s
I've been inside many old timers but most 3D printing is for a mold which is then used as a cast for the material being reproduced. It doesn't go directly into service hot off of the 3D printing press.
Ever been inside the workings of a Kingston timer motor? There's a whole lotta plastic gears inside those and I'd hate to see the bill to reproduce each one. If catastrophic failure occurs and the gears are too badly chewed up, good luck getting proper dimensions for the printer.
The process from start to finish is much more complicated and expensive than pushing a button and spiting out a part. One must have deep pockets up front to cover the initial expense. There also must be enough demand to cover those expenses. God forbid cheap materials are used in the final product and your reputation is forever destroyed.
I've been inside many old timers but most 3D printing is for a mold which is then used as a cast for the material being reproduced. It doesn't go directly into service hot off of the 3D printing press.
Ever been inside the workings of a Kingston timer motor? There's a whole lotta plastic gears inside those and I'd hate to see the bill to reproduce each one. If catastrophic failure occurs and the gears are too badly chewed up, good luck getting proper dimensions for the printer.
The process from start to finish is much more complicated and expensive than pushing a button and spiting out a part. One must have deep pockets up front to cover the initial expense. There also must be enough demand to cover those expenses. God forbid cheap materials are used in the final product and your reputation is forever destroyed.
Timers are an interesting one. While perhaps one of the most complicated parts of a machine design, they are also one which is uniquely suitable to be fully replaced with alternate technology. You don't necessarily "have" to repair them like-for-like.
If you look at problems like the NLA door seals for the front-load Keymatics, that's a dead-end until you can reproduce the part, and you're not likely to stray too far from the original design. But an electromechanical timer is ripe for replacement by electronics - and depending on what has failed and how rare the parts are (or as mentioned above, how much engineering work it would take to reproduce them), it might end up being quite a bit cheaper to fully replace the timer with something 100% different than what was there 40 years ago.
If you look at problems like the NLA door seals for the front-load Keymatics, that's a dead-end until you can reproduce the part, and you're not likely to stray too far from the original design. But an electromechanical timer is ripe for replacement by electronics - and depending on what has failed and how rare the parts are (or as mentioned above, how much engineering work it would take to reproduce them), it might end up being quite a bit cheaper to fully replace the timer with something 100% different than what was there 40 years ago.
I imagine much of the aim in restoration or repair of a vintage machine, at least for collectors, is to maintain the originality of the mechanisms.
Yes of course. My comment is mostly in the context of that 20-40 year outlook, where keeping full authenticity might no longer be possible. Basically making the distinction that, to keep a machine operable, the timer is a part that can be fully substituted with something entirely different. Whereas, other parts... your only choice is to repair or recreate them to match the originals.
One of Eugene's rebuilt transmissions popped up in my eBay feed.
Glad to see that you're up and running refurbishing and selling these.
Glad to see that you're up and running refurbishing and selling these.
chef
Active member
Are all the Pitman transmissions A412, A510, A512, A612, A613, A712 compatible and can interchange parts?
Reply #37
They are all the same I believe. Wouldn’t be cost effective to use a completely different style of transmission for every machine in your lineup unless you are a large corporation like General Motors back in the 60’s where you have different divisions (really a large company that owns different smaller companies) and can have different brands of appliances using different layouts and designs to complete with other outside companies and other divisions owned by the same company as well.
They are all the same I believe. Wouldn’t be cost effective to use a completely different style of transmission for every machine in your lineup unless you are a large corporation like General Motors back in the 60’s where you have different divisions (really a large company that owns different smaller companies) and can have different brands of appliances using different layouts and designs to complete with other outside companies and other divisions owned by the same company as well.
All 1966-1989 pitman transmissions as a complete unit are compatible with each other as long you get the correct one for the tub size.
Here's the only exception: 12 series (1984-1989) upper transmission housings are not compatible with previous models. A 12 series pitman housing is only compatible with the 12 series pitman transmission. The internal gears and upper shaft are compatible with previous models.
An A613 should have an orbital transmission.
Here's the only exception: 12 series (1984-1989) upper transmission housings are not compatible with previous models. A 12 series pitman housing is only compatible with the 12 series pitman transmission. The internal gears and upper shaft are compatible with previous models.
An A613 should have an orbital transmission.
chef
Active member
Are the 12 series (1984-1989) transmissions better than previous series?
I’m having 50 made
I came to an agreement with a local fabricator. They are going to be the same material as the original. I’ll keep you all updated
I came to an agreement with a local fabricator. They are going to be the same material as the original. I’ll keep you all updated
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
What have you been quoted?
What's their delivery time?
What's their delivery time?
I’m probably going to have to sell them at a bit over $100 per shaft. Eta 7-9 weeks.
hosertp
Member
I’m probably going to have to sell them at a bit over $100
I am interested in a complete upper housing with a functioning agitator shaft for an A512 (my favored/easiest path of restoration)
OR
I will remove the pin and un-seize the shaft if I know that you still have your re-manufactured upper agitator shaft available.
Some folks on this thread, as I have read the entire conversation, have given me sage advice on my "Maytag A512 spins but won't agitate" thread. Very much appreciated! I just need to know what's available in order to determine my path to restore my Pitman transmission. If I have a replacement shaft, I am going to need to hear from someone who knows the right way to remove the pin with the least amount of collateral damage?
Please let me know what parts are available. Thank you all in advance,
Paul
I am interested in a complete upper housing with a functioning agitator shaft for an A512 (my favored/easiest path of restoration)
OR
I will remove the pin and un-seize the shaft if I know that you still have your re-manufactured upper agitator shaft available.
Some folks on this thread, as I have read the entire conversation, have given me sage advice on my "Maytag A512 spins but won't agitate" thread. Very much appreciated! I just need to know what's available in order to determine my path to restore my Pitman transmission. If I have a replacement shaft, I am going to need to hear from someone who knows the right way to remove the pin with the least amount of collateral damage?
Please let me know what parts are available. Thank you all in advance,
Paul
The shaft is one obstacle. The sleeve bearings are generally damaged as they're much softer than the shaft. Sometimes you can get away with reusing them but most of the time there's enough wear that it makes a racket during agitation when reassembled, even with a new shaft. A good machine shop should be able make and properly fit new sleeve bearings and maybe fix the shaft by welding and re-machining the wear/corrosion areas.
The groove pin is another obstacle. They're difficult to remove (post 1974's are much easier), re-install and are not reusable. The service manual calls for banging them out with a hammer and punch but I had better luck pressing them out which prevents damaging the shaft, sleeve bearings, and the possibility of staking the groove pin if it mushrooms during the removal/installation process. Finding a new groove pin will be a task, they were obsoleted in May of 2015 and parts dried up very quickly after that.
I have toyed around with making new shafts, sleeve bearings, groove pins, clutch washers, and the Delrin pinion gears before 2020 but I think costs would now far exceed what most would be willing to pay with the large increase of pricing the last 4 years. Damaged/seized upper shaft and upper sleeve bearing is the main reason these washers are trashed.
The groove pin is another obstacle. They're difficult to remove (post 1974's are much easier), re-install and are not reusable. The service manual calls for banging them out with a hammer and punch but I had better luck pressing them out which prevents damaging the shaft, sleeve bearings, and the possibility of staking the groove pin if it mushrooms during the removal/installation process. Finding a new groove pin will be a task, they were obsoleted in May of 2015 and parts dried up very quickly after that.
I have toyed around with making new shafts, sleeve bearings, groove pins, clutch washers, and the Delrin pinion gears before 2020 but I think costs would now far exceed what most would be willing to pay with the large increase of pricing the last 4 years. Damaged/seized upper shaft and upper sleeve bearing is the main reason these washers are trashed.
kb0nes
Well-known member
I would really like to one of these shafts in person or see a drawing of one from someone that can measure and document it. It really doesn't look all that hard to duplicate one. I'm sitting here in a short run / prototype CNC shop currently. We specialize in making parts like these in small quantities for a reasonable cost. Many machine shops that run higher quantities just can't bid onesie twosie quantities reasonably because they don't understand making a part without fixturing it for production.
View attachment kb0nes-2024012917513408947_1.jpg
View attachment kb0nes-2024012917513408947_1.jpg
Phil, if you like I can bring you an NOS shaft next time I'm up in the Twin Cities.
Ben
Ben
kb0nes
Well-known member
Ben,
I would like to see one I suppose. I talked to John last night and it sounds as if Eugene had some made already so perhaps this is a non-issue now. Sounds as if they were made of steel though, I would have used stainless to avoid the need for plating/coating.
Happy New Year!
Phil
I would like to see one I suppose. I talked to John last night and it sounds as if Eugene had some made already so perhaps this is a non-issue now. Sounds as if they were made of steel though, I would have used stainless to avoid the need for plating/coating.
Happy New Year!
Phil
Nothing wrong with a bit of competition, especially in the quality department.
I can send you an NOS pitman shaft, NOS orbital shaft, NOS EJN wringer shaft, NOS EJN upper/lower sleeve bearings (the lower sleeve bearing is shared with auto's from 1956-1989), NOS groove pin, NOS brass and steel clutch washers. I can even send you an NOS Delrin pinion gear (used from 1949-1989) if you fool around with that material.
Hell, I have entire NOS pitman gear sets, too, but probably not worth the effort. They rarely wear out unless run dry. Also have NOS orbital gears (Delrin) and yoke.
I can send you an NOS pitman shaft, NOS orbital shaft, NOS EJN wringer shaft, NOS EJN upper/lower sleeve bearings (the lower sleeve bearing is shared with auto's from 1956-1989), NOS groove pin, NOS brass and steel clutch washers. I can even send you an NOS Delrin pinion gear (used from 1949-1989) if you fool around with that material.
Hell, I have entire NOS pitman gear sets, too, but probably not worth the effort. They rarely wear out unless run dry. Also have NOS orbital gears (Delrin) and yoke.
Reply number 49
Hi Dan, unfortunately, there’s very little demand for any of these parts. Those of us who really need them already have them, and they still can be found.
Minor note, the AMPs did not use a Delrin pinion gear. I don’t even think Delrin had been invented yet not sure about that, however the later Delrin ring might by fit those early washers. But the original machines used a fiber gear.
Maytag used a nonmetal gear because they just used straight cut gears and it would be too noisy for the main pinion gear Which travels at the fastest speed. Whirlpool got around this problem by using a helical cut gears.
John
Hi Dan, unfortunately, there’s very little demand for any of these parts. Those of us who really need them already have them, and they still can be found.
Minor note, the AMPs did not use a Delrin pinion gear. I don’t even think Delrin had been invented yet not sure about that, however the later Delrin ring might by fit those early washers. But the original machines used a fiber gear.
Maytag used a nonmetal gear because they just used straight cut gears and it would be too noisy for the main pinion gear Which travels at the fastest speed. Whirlpool got around this problem by using a helical cut gears.
John
Oh, if Eugene has already gone down this path (had not heard that he had successfully gotten this sourced out?), there's no need then for Phil to go through the same exercise.
Dan, surprised you suggested the E/J/N shaft. Have you checked out any of the parts available from Cottage Craft Works? Looks like they offer one for about 55 bucks. Would be hard pressed to find someone to make one in a small batch, for less.
https://cottagecraftworks.com/maytag-wringer-washer-center-assembly-parts
I spent a few minutes last night going through the archives. I could have sworn I found an off the shelf groove pin replacement and commented about it on a similar thread a few years ago, but alas I couldn't find it. I could go and re-measure an NOS pin to see what the specs are. If it's somewhat standard I don't see why we couldn't use a generic replacement.
I also recall Dan that you mentioned the lower bushing from the automatic transmission was the same used on the E, from the A4927 set. What are the specs on the top bushing? Again, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not too far off from a common or generic sized bushing/t bushing. If I'm wrong, please correct my assumptions.
Ben
EDIT - per the parts manuals, the 210183 groov-pin is 1/4" x 1-1/8"[this post was last edited: 1/30/2024-21:16]
Dan, surprised you suggested the E/J/N shaft. Have you checked out any of the parts available from Cottage Craft Works? Looks like they offer one for about 55 bucks. Would be hard pressed to find someone to make one in a small batch, for less.
https://cottagecraftworks.com/maytag-wringer-washer-center-assembly-parts
I spent a few minutes last night going through the archives. I could have sworn I found an off the shelf groove pin replacement and commented about it on a similar thread a few years ago, but alas I couldn't find it. I could go and re-measure an NOS pin to see what the specs are. If it's somewhat standard I don't see why we couldn't use a generic replacement.
I also recall Dan that you mentioned the lower bushing from the automatic transmission was the same used on the E, from the A4927 set. What are the specs on the top bushing? Again, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not too far off from a common or generic sized bushing/t bushing. If I'm wrong, please correct my assumptions.
Ben
EDIT - per the parts manuals, the 210183 groov-pin is 1/4" x 1-1/8"[this post was last edited: 1/30/2024-21:16]
Reproduced, Maytag wringer washer, agitator shaft
Hi Ben, I wonder if that shaft is made of stainless steel it looks nice, I’m assuming the wringer washer, agitator shaft is shorter than the automatic. If it was long enough, you could drill an extra hole through it.
John
Hi Ben, I wonder if that shaft is made of stainless steel it looks nice, I’m assuming the wringer washer, agitator shaft is shorter than the automatic. If it was long enough, you could drill an extra hole through it.
John
I’d be interested
I only have one Maytag, a 1970 Model 806. Never know when I might need the parts.
I only have one Maytag, a 1970 Model 806. Never know when I might need the parts.
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