Why Has Whirlpool Never Sold a BOL Power Clean Module?

[Chetlaham]

Same! I can start if full of crusty dishes. Nobody beats the older ones. Nobody does!

I personally am that same such that for me I have a need but for only one cycle: Heavy / Pots and Pans. I let the machine get get full, crusty, and don't like to prep at all beyond general scrapping if the machine will let me. Pots and Pans go in as is.

I add detergent, start and walk away. I expect to come back to spotless results with a clean scent and no food anywhere.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

I 100% agree with you minus the complexity statement. The Power Clean was just to different than what the market and government wanted at face value. So production seized. 2013 was a dark year for me. You're correct that you can't get a residential standard tub anymore. A shame really, because standard tubs were easy to service and typically did not need to be pulled out of the cabinet. Which you mentioned.

The clean water wash system is compact and great for what it does but it will never hold a candle to the cleaning and food soil handling capabilities of a Whirlpool Power Clean Filter Module.

Manual clean filter are IMO the worst, and for me the most disappointing is their use in commercial dish-machines. Champion got it partially right in that their machines used a vertical reversing pump and motor that behaved similarly to a Power Clean but still not to the same level of soil processing.


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The above, but with a redesigned module and beefed up motor would be a dream. I've been contemplating on buying a low temperature dish machine to avoid the tall tub fiasco especially since modern dish machines be programed to start with an empty sump and drain said sump at the end of a cycle however the only thing holding me back are the manual clean strainer filters.


The simple push to start button would fulfill the BOL control requirements.

I agree 100%. And I can't stand the alternating wash arms.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Pointless from your vantage. I don't deny that. If your dishwasher is working for you, it is working for you. However no two people will agree on everything or obtain the same results in everything they use. For me and Jerome long cycle times, limited particle processing, cumbersome human machine interfaces and premature failures are a very real issue for us. What we want and need was available for decades, perfected and then in 2013 vanished.

Do others feel the same way? Indeed. At the same time like all to many we are forced to go with the flow. I just want a world where everyone can be happy.

I agree 100%. I want a powerful motor that handles every food soiled dishes imaginable from simple dessert dishes to the smeared on caked on dinner plates and the like.

 

[Chetlaham]

Aren't most of the commercial machines w/the manual clean filters designed to manage pre-rinsed dishes vs only scraped dishes?

Would be interesting to see someone attempt the cake test with a few dishwashers, a power clean, clean water wash, global wash, and maybe a bosch for good measure. despite it being completely unrepresentative of normal use, it would be interesting to see the results .

Sadly, that is true. Commercial machines are meant to take in predominantly pre-rinsed dishes. Commercial dishwashers are if anything meant for sanitizing. The only reason I am consider one is because of build quality which is very appealing to me.

The good news is dish machines are getting better in some ways. Hobart now offers a programmable cycle where a person can choose a fill and dump cycle which starts and ends with an empty sump. Chemical detergent and rinse aid pumps can be disabled for manual dosing. The machine can be set to do a main wash thermal hold and the final fresh water rinse can be adjusted up to 20 seconds.


https://storestuff.s3-accelerate.am...248286&Signature=tt9alrfolkw5j5QyHo2MldZ5swI=

 

[gelaundry4ever]

I personally am that same such that for me I have a need but for only one cycle: Heavy / Pots and Pans. I let the machine get get full, crusty, and don't like to prep at all beyond general scrapping if the machine will let me. Pots and Pans go in as is.

I add detergent, start and walk away. I expect to come back to spotless results with a clean scent and no food anywhere.

I agree. One thing I miss about new dishwashers is that you can't smell what's going on inside. I always use rinse aid also.

 

[Chetlaham]

I agree 100%. I want a powerful motor that handles every food soiled dishes imaginable from simple dessert dishes to the smeared on caked on dinner plates and the like.

1/3 HP motor with a 1.15 service factor is my minimum. True load and go when paired with a large pump and processing module.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

1/3 HP motor with a 1.15 service factor is my minimum. True load and go when paired with a large pump and processing module.

Too many people these days are too stupid to understand how appliances work. This is why so few of us like to observe everything.

 

[egress]

I agree. One thing I miss about new dishwashers is that you can't smell what's going on inside. I always use rinse aid also.

Smelling whats going on inside? I cant say I've ever considered or felt like I wanted to smell what's going on inside my dishwasher on a regular basis. Especially not when I've made tuna salad!

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Smelling whats going on inside? I cant say I've ever considered or felt like I wanted to smell what's going on inside my dishwasher on a regular basis. Especially not when I've made tuna salad!

Older dishwashers had vents on the front left corner. The ones I used when growing would allow you to not only hear what's going on inside, but smell it too. Different dishwasher detergents and rinse aids had different fragrances.

 

[Chetlaham]

Too many people these days are too stupid to understand how appliances work. This is why so few of us like to observe everything.

Things are taken at face value. They hear to noise of a Power Clean, but fail to realize the brief noise is well worth it on behalf of its utility.

 

[Chetlaham]

Smelling whats going on inside? I cant say I've ever considered or felt like I wanted to smell what's going on inside my dishwasher on a regular basis. Especially not when I've made tuna salad!

Jerome is visually impaired, so he needs a guide as to what is going on inside. Though at the same time a pre-wash with a thermal hold that could last 20 minutes might be better off not leaching any fragrances into the room.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Jerome is visually impaired, so he needs a guide as to what is going on inside. Though at the same time a pre-wash with a thermal hold that could last 20 minutes might be better off not leaching any fragrances into the room.

Not only that, but there are also those of us who like the fragrance after food odors permeate the dishwasher.

 

[Chetlaham]

Not only that, but there are also those of us who like the fragrance after food odors permeate the dishwasher.

In a good dishwasher there are no after odors. All traces of food is gone, and what little water remains in the mechanism is clear and sparkly.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

In a good dishwasher there are no after odors. All traces of food is gone, and what little water remains in the mechanism is clear and sparkly.

Exactly. These manufacturers are still lying about dishwashers. Even GE! They're still lying!

 

[johnb300m]

Exactly. These manufacturers are still lying about dishwashers. Even GE! They're still lying!

Nobody is lying about their dishwashers.
GE has been “disingenuous” about their hard food disposers, for over a decade. The spinning blades are hidden behind the filters.
BUT it’s not a lie. The chopper blades are physically there.

 

[phillymatt53]

My Kitchenaid KDC19 never stinks during or after use, and even if I open the door days after using it, I don't smell anything.

 

[pstehle]

1/3 HP motor with a 1.15 service factor is my minimum. True load and go when paired with a large pump and processing module.

Ya know, my 8 year old "Kitchenaid" has maybe a 1/10th HP main pump at best, with a dinky little wet magnet pump... I have plenty of beefs with the design, but it has never failed to get my stuff clean. Flatware is shiny, glasses are clean and clear, no crap left on the plates. (those all get pre-rinsed by Rudy, our sweet Pitty) The original lasted about 5 years, the aftermarket pump's been in it for probably 2. Whirlpool wanted over $200 for theirs, McCombs had one on my doorstep for $56, and it's indistinguishable, even the same QA stamps. I will say, every load gets high heat, extra long cycle... I still would rather have a gold old KDSS-anything from the 1980s on back, but this thing works well enough. You also can't hear it running, so it's a good thing they put those little indicator lights on the front!

 

[Chetlaham]

Ya know, my 8 year old "Kitchenaid" has maybe a 1/10th HP main pump at best, with a dinky little wet magnet pump... I have plenty of beefs with the design, but it has never failed to get my stuff clean. Flatware is shiny, glasses are clean and clear, no crap left on the plates. (those all get pre-rinsed by Rudy, our sweet Pitty) The original lasted about 5 years, the aftermarket pump's been in it for probably 2. Whirlpool wanted over $200 for theirs, McCombs had one on my doorstep for $56, and it's indistinguishable, even the same QA stamps. I will say, every load gets high heat, extra long cycle... I still would rather have a gold old KDSS-anything from the 1980s on back, but this thing works well enough. You also can't hear it running, so it's a good thing they put those little indicator lights on the front!

Don't get me wrong though, there are still a lot of food soils that tall tubs can remove, and clean all those soiled items to immaculate results. Tall tubs do have the advantage of fine filtration where any spec of food or coffee ground won't be recirculated and re-deposited on the tableware, utensil and cups. That was my biggest gripe will low end GE dishwashers.

 

[johnb300m]

Don’t forget the Powerclean!
Even though it cleans very well, and handles more soil than most; it’s not a “clean water” design. I’ve had it regularly distribute little chopped up pieces of onion that sometimes remain on glasses and silverware. Something a tall tub with a filter system never ever does (if functioning correctly).

 

[Chetlaham]

Don’t forget the Powerclean!
Even though it cleans very well, and handles more soil than most; it’s not a “clean water” design. I’ve had it regularly distribute little chopped up pieces of onion that sometimes remain on glasses and silverware. Something a tall tub with a filter system never ever does (if functioning correctly).

Something must be wrong with your module, water charge, or the loading is not correct.

Any particles or food soils in the water will eventually make it through the fine filter, even if only a fraction of the water is forced into the filter chamber at any given second. The final rinse on latter versions of the Power Clean is at least 10 minutes long, usually longer because of the thermal hold, so if by chance a stray particle is recirculating in the water it should get filtered out by the end.

IF you want a near 100% filtration on re-circulation then I would recommend the Maytag Jet-Clean.

 

[phillymatt53]

Something must be wrong with your module, water charge, or the loading is not correct.

Any particles or food soils in the water will eventually make it through the fine filter, even if only a fraction of the water is forced into the filter chamber at any given second. The final rinse on latter versions of the Power Clean is at least 10 minutes long, usually longer because of the thermal hold, so if by chance a stray particle is recirculating in the water it should get filtered out by the end.

IF you want a near 100% filtration on re-circulation then I would recommend the Maytag Jet-Clean.

In my Kitchenaid KDC19, when I serviced it a while back for leaks from a hose, I noticed that it had 2 impellers on the main motor shaft.
The upper impeller is obviously for pumping water to the two spray arms.
But what does the lower impeller down below it for?
Is it for pumping the water out to drain the machine?

 

[qsd-dan]

But what does the lower impeller down below it for?

Drain impeller.

Did you inspect the drain impeller? Those can beat up, especially if glass makes their way into the sump.

 

[phillymatt53]

Drain impeller.

Did you inspect the drain impeller? Those can beat up, especially if glass makes their way into the sump.

I did shine a flashlight down in there, and it looked fine to me.
During a draining, it's quiet except for the sloshing water sound in the kitchen sink garbage disposal.

 

[johnb300m]

Something must be wrong with your module, water charge, or the loading is not correct.

Any particles or food soils in the water will eventually make it through the fine filter, even if only a fraction of the water is forced into the filter chamber at any given second. The final rinse on latter versions of the Power Clean is at least 10 minutes long, usually longer because of the thermal hold, so if by chance a stray particle is recirculating in the water it should get filtered out by the end.

IF you want a near 100% filtration on re-circulation then I would recommend the Maytag Jet-Clean.

Nope. Nope.
My modules are in perfect working order.
It’s a matter of the sampling and centrifuge system and how certain particles react.
Flow paths are not uniform, and the fluid cyclonic action does not always spin out all particles at the same rate or time. Some will go out the upper arm or lower arm outlets to be recirculated.
There, they might find themselves to the back of a glass in a quieter area of the machine. If they are dislodged they may get pulled back in the pump, of which they have a higher chance to be filtered, but the particles still have the probability of going three separate routes again.

Could even be something to do with centrifugal separation forces and particle types. Maybe the little scallion pieces don’t have enough inertia to migrate to the outer flow path and over the “magic wall” to make it to the collector. If the buoyancy and densities of onion skins is close to or equal to that of the water, they’ll just travel through the plumbing systems to recirculate. Maybe being chopped up smaller by the grinder.

Those are just limitations the PowerClean design cannot escape. But a filter cup system can 100% screen out.

 

[Chetlaham]

Well, if you ignore probability. You're forgetting that particles will repeat this path dozens of times per minute, eventually, in the 40+ minutes of re-circulation they will all enter the filter chamber. Kenmore had a power shower which prevented things from settling on the concaves of bowls and glasses and staying there.


I once did this test with a BOL 2008 GE dishwasher that had a fine filter which only took in a small fraction of the recirculated water. I placed one and a half table spoons of ground coffee in the machine, toward the finer side, and at the end of the cycle they were all gone. I tried the same but with 1 tea spoon of ground coffee with another BOL machine which did not have a fine filter. Lets just say I regretted doing it. The particles would not leave even after several cycles. Each new load saw them redeposited on everything with the top rack seeing the worst of it.

The filter cups may screen small particles out on the first pass, but they can't flush larger bits down the drain.

 

[johnb300m]

Well, if you ignore probability. You're forgetting that particles will repeat this path dozens of times per minute, eventually, in the 40+ minutes of re-circulation they will all enter the filter chamber. Kenmore had a power shower which prevented things from settling on the concaves of bowls and glasses and staying there.


I once did this test with a BOL 2008 GE dishwasher that had a fine filter which only took in a small fraction of the recirculated water. I placed one and a half table spoons of ground coffee in the machine, toward the finer side, and at the end of the cycle they were all gone. I tried the same but with 1 tea spoon of ground coffee with another BOL machine which did not have a fine filter. Lets just say I regretted doing it. The particles would not leave even after several cycles. Each new load saw them redeposited on everything with the top rack seeing the worst of it.

The filter cups may screen small particles out on the first pass, but they can't flush larger bits down the drain.

You’re totally missing the point.
Coffee grounds would act differently than strings and wisps of white or green onion, in the centrifugal separator.

 

[Chetlaham]

In my Kitchenaid KDC19, when I serviced it a while back for leaks from a hose, I noticed that it had 2 impellers on the main motor shaft.
The upper impeller is obviously for pumping water to the two spray arms.
But what does the lower impeller down below it for?
Is it for pumping the water out to drain the machine?

Drain impeller, and a brilliant location to place it. By having a drain impeller at the lowest point in the machine your reduce water carry over which decreases the amount of water a cycle needs to use while drastically increasing cleaning and rinsing.

I feel all these horizontal designs which hold more than a cup of water need to be done away with.

 

[Chetlaham]

You’re totally missing the point.
Coffee grounds would act differently than strings and wisps of white or green onion, in the centrifugal separator.

I get your point, however I feel your exaggerating the limitations of the separation process. Yes, what you say is partly true, but it nowhere near as bad or common as you make it out to be. At least it was not for me and I loaded what I could soil wise.

 

[egress]

FWIW, my experience with a point voyager and a BOL GE with a somewhat adjacent filtration method matches. For some reason it seems that an amount of food almost always got stuck in tall pint glasses and then no amount of hot water could shift it throughout the rest of the cycle. I suspect the coffee ground handling capacity would have guaranteed some leftovers in such a situation. at least I know for a fact that it wouldn't in more modern tall tub iterations unless it's a frigidaire... It is sounding like at some point somehow I've got to get my hands on one of these mythical powercleans and put it through its paces myself

 

[Chetlaham]

FWIW, my experience with a point voyager and a BOL GE with a somewhat adjacent filtration method matches. For some reason it seems that an amount of food almost always got stuck in tall pint glasses and then no amount of hot water could shift it throughout the rest of the cycle. I suspect the coffee ground handling capacity would have guaranteed some leftovers in such a situation. at least I know for a fact that it wouldn't in more modern tall tub iterations unless it's a frigidaire... It is sounding like at some point somehow I've got to get my hands on one of these mythical powercleans and put it through its paces myself

Do it, get a power clean and try it out. Verify that the filer, pump and chamber are good. Full water charge, spray arm seals ok, no clogged holes ect. Then run it through various tests. I'm curious if you will like a Power Clean Filter Module as much as I do.

Also as a tip: turn down the temp on your water heater. Power Cleans work best with 120*F or less hot water. The extra time the dishwasher spends heating helps in scouring.