Why Modern Cars Need Master Switches

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Chetlaham

Chetlaham

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I've been saying it for some time, but I do not believe in drive by the wire. At least not without master kill switches that drop electricity directly going to the ignition, drive motor and a gas shutoff ball valve in the fuel supply line. Along with a manual string driven backup emergency brakes.


My honest opinion is that drive by the wire malfunctions occur more than we are told about, and, it is only getting worse. Even with robust electronics there are still common mode and discrete mode software failures taking place that are impossible to simulate practically to the point in which they can be avoided in the real world.


https://www.carscoops.com/2025/08/m...e-to-stop-before-violent-crash-in-viral-clip/

Electronicification is a no-no for me.
 
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First: electronics can be made very, very, very, very, "safe", but it is expensive and requires competence, experience and skills which are in very short supply on the market.

Second: cars are meant to be cheap, not to be safe; even the standard of automotive safety, the ISO 26262, is the most miserable standard ever seen and its main goal is to make it possible not to have competent, skilled and experienced people, because such people cost money; achieving safety is just an afterthought, a side effect.

Third: a "master switch", as you call it, is a good idea only for the cases where the so-called "idle current principle" is applied like the holy bible; this is the case of European railways, where no matter where you are, no matter what you are doing, no matter what is happening around you, if you interrupt the power supply you will never cause any damage; now think of a car suddenly braking in the middle of the highway...
 
I feel it better than the engine stuck cruising at 60 MPH with no brakes, no steering and no shifting of any kind like the guy in the video.

The master switches would choke fuel to the engine by closing a ball valve on the supply line via a hard physical rod and another would physically disconnect the battery and alternator electrical feeding the ignition system. So no spark plugs, no fuel pump, ect. In an all electric car this would be a link to a high interrupting DC disconnect switch that opens all sources of power to the drive motor.

The car after such kill switch activation becomes powerless. It is moving on inertia, however the engine and/or motor can no longer keep outputting power. It can no longer keep that car at steady speed or accelerate it.

Next, when safe to do so the emergency brake can be pulled steadily like on an older car, the steal wire pulls on the brake pads steadily bring the car to a stop.

Ideal? No, but better than having the engine/motor keeping the car at a high rate of speed without deceleration.
 
Once our previous 2020 Ford acted like it had a Master switch. We were at a restaurant in a congested dining, office and retail area. When we were leaving the dash said No key detected. Had to lay the key fob in the bottom of the console compartment and it started. You do the same if the fob battery is dead.
 
Chetlaham said:
Ideal? No, but better than having the engine/motor keeping the car at a high rate of speed without deceleration.
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I will not annoy you with the details, Chetlaham, but believe me: the matter is much, much, much more complex that this, and it takes really a lot of knowledge and expertise to master it.

And is case you wonder, you have just raised the most complex and fundamental problem of "safety", and when I say "complex" I mean hellishly complex
 
Chetlaham said:
I feel it better than the engine stuck cruising at 60 MPH with no brakes, no steering and no shifting of any kind like the guy in the video.

The master switches would choke fuel to the engine by closing a ball valve on the supply line via a hard physical rod and another would physically disconnect the battery and alternator electrical feeding the ignition system. So no spark plugs, no fuel pump, ect. In an all electric car this would be a link to a high interrupting DC disconnect switch that opens all sources of power to the drive motor.

The car after such kill switch activation becomes powerless. It is moving on inertia, however the engine and/or motor can no longer keep outputting power. It can no longer keep that car at steady speed or accelerate it.

Next, when safe to do so the emergency brake can be pulled steadily like on an older car, the steal wire pulls on the brake pads steadily bring the car to a stop.

Ideal? No, but better than having the engine/motor keeping the car at a high rate of speed without deceleration.
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Back in 2007, I got in the mail a recall notice about my 1986 Lincoln Mk VIII.
Apparently, a throttle control potentiometer in the engine compartment was in danger of being defective, causing instant engine speed increase and possible uncontrolled acceleration.

I planned to have the Lincoln dealer check it when I got some free time.
But two weeks later, when I started the car in my driveway, it almost "took off", revving at almost 300 RPM with my foot hard on the brakes!
When I got it to the dealer, it ran fine again, however they did the needed repair and that was the end of it.

Oh lord please give me back my 1972 Chevy Nova with it's "old school" gas pedal cable to the carb, which never gave me any problems.
 
Watched the video on Youtube-that e-Mustang clobbered that other car real bad once the Mustag got past the concrete divider that was guiding it. I looked at an electric converted 1990 Geo Metro about 20 yrs ago and the emergency cutoff was an Anderson connector hooked to the E-brake pedal...
 
donprohel said:
I will not annoy you with the details, Chetlaham, but believe me: the matter is much, much, much more complex that this, and it takes really a lot of knowledge and expertise to master it.

And is case you wonder, you have just raised the most complex and fundamental problem of "safety", and when I say "complex" I mean hellishly complex
Click to expand...


You can shower me with the details on the matter. I am interested in hearing all sizes of a debate.

I can't see a simple ball valve in the fuel with a rod up to a dial being much more complex for the safety it provides in a run away car.
 
Chetlaham said:
I can't see a simple ball valve in the fuel with a rod up to a dial being much more complex for the safety it provides in a run away car.
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Here I am lost, Chetlaham: I am sure you have a quite accurate idea of how many cents such a mechanical device would cost.

But I am also confused because this is a mechanical device while, if I am not wrong, we were talking about electronics.

And I am pretty sure that the old mechanical inertial valve that shuts off the fuel in case of an accident is being replaced by something electronic and cheaper
 
donprohel said:
Here I am lost, Chetlaham: I am sure you have a quite accurate idea of how many cents such a mechanical device would cost.

But I am also confused because this is a mechanical device while, if I am not wrong, we were talking about electronics.

And I am pretty sure that the old mechanical inertial valve that shuts off the fuel in case of an accident is being replaced by something electronic and cheaper
Click to expand...


Electronics and "drive by wire" are now found on gas vehicles as well. Electronics can call for as much acceleration as they want, good luck when the fuel line is chocked and the engine can't get gas.
 
cfz2882 said:
Watched the video on Youtube-that e-Mustang clobbered that other car real bad once the Mustag got past the concrete divider that was guiding it. I looked at an electric converted 1990 Geo Metro about 20 yrs ago and the emergency cutoff was an Anderson connector hooked to the E-brake pedal...
Click to expand...


That is a step in the right direction. Just change the Anderson Connector to a high current interrupting DC circuit breaker. Car can't continue running away when the DC power is cut to the drive motor.
 
You probably have seen the Youtube video of a Honda Pilot "running away"from a teenage driver-apparently car would not let driver switch off ignition or shift to neutral...I do not know if a Honda Pilot has vacume brake boost,but i suppose brake assist could be reduced if engine at full throttle...
 
cfz2882 said:
You probably have seen the Youtube video of a Honda Pilot "running away"from a teenage driver-apparently car would not let driver switch off ignition or shift to neutral...I do not know if a Honda Pilot has vacume brake boost,but i suppose brake assist could be reduced if engine at full throttle...
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Too much high-tech electronics in cars today.
Funny, we never had issues like these until all this crap was built into vehicles.
Could it be some sick corporate idea funded by covert gov to boost that "population control" agenda? 😮

"Here, stare at the dash screen so you can watch your favorite show or some porn while you're No Hands On The Wheel electronics let's you eat that cheezburger and fries."
 
Automotive electronics are by far the most reliable electronic devices. Any consumer will ever own

Failure rates of electronics in cars are near zero one of the main reasons for this is the federal highway traffic safety administration issue recalls when things go wrong with cars so the manufacturers have a very strong incentive to build high quality.

Of the 40 Plus mostly Chrysler vehicles that my brother and I and immediate partners have owned over the past 40+ years. I only can recall one problem with a board on one of the vehicle vehicles I had a 1990 Dodge pick up truck that had some sort of problem with the charging circuit and they had to take the main board and have it rebuilt. It’s the only time I’ve ever had a problem.

I have a 1986 Chrysler limousine with a turbo four-cylinder engine. My brother also has a 1986 Chrysler laser five speed and I also have a 1994 Plymouth voyager five speed minivan. These are are currently older vehicles. None of these have ever had a problem with the electronics

Two years ago I bought a decked out Chrysler Pacifica all-wheel-drive minivan. The car hasn’t had the first problem what a contrast when I was a kid my neighbors ordered a brand new 1970 Plymouth satellite wagon with a 383 and factory air. He asked us boys to come over and help him make a list of all the things wrong with that car we had over 39 things on a list and a half an hour This Plymouth satellite turned out to be a decent car after a lot of bugs were worked out of it at least until his daughter totaled it but today quality is so high you can just go and buy a car and have like zero problems with it

Just like Appliances we don’t have a 10th the problem with new appliances That we did back in the 70s when I think of the amount of warranty calls we did on Maytag washers and dryers and whirlpool washers and dryers, etc. in the 70s and early 80s. It was amazing how many invoices we had to hand write out making warranty claims that’s just almost totally gone away now
 
I believe that a PART of the problem with anything, regardless if it's a new OR older product..... is operator ignorance or improper use.

For instance: A customer brings in a stereo receiver to my repair shop.
It's got blown output transistors.
After I diagnose the issue, the customer tells me that they've hooked up multiple (too many) speakers to it and has used it as a "party machine" in the backyard.
 

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