Widescreen/HD TV; your take on it

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arbilab

arbilab

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
5,253
Location
Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)
Most everyone already made this transition. I waited until my tuber started folding over on the top and NEEDED replacement. A couple weeks ago. Got a Sony 32, anything bigger would block the bedroom door in my HUD geezer poorhouse apt. By switching wires around it will also play DVD in component mode and VHS in composite mode, as well as cablebox HDMI and antenna. Many/most will not do all that.

'Retail' was $350, I paid $300 including tax and stuff you're supposed to buy like cables. From a mom/pop SONY store. Looked at some of the box houses online, they wouldn't tell me what the inputs were. It mattered.

Well now I can read not only the cable guide which Charter recently scrunched down to illegible on SD, but also the drug warnings on commercials which occupy almost half of cable airtime. But guess what? Three Stooges films actually have EDGES. Not to mention the ability to closely approximate newscasters' pore diameters in fractional millimeters.

Overall I'm quite pleased. Much less squinting. I can read Nurse Rached's badge on Cuckoo's Nest, though of course nobody needed to. Virtually all that squirrely NTSC aliasing on fine detail like ties is gone, even on shows originally recorded in NTSC. I dunno zackly how they do that.

Not all the trans-format artifacts are gone. Sometimes, filling the screen gives you fat people. There are pan/scan versions of widescreen movies that really don't look right no matter which button I push. Mostly I just leave it on 'full' and let the black bars fall where they may.

With LED backlighting, all the fluorescent gamut artifacts are gone. That was a big colorimetry hurdle for flatpanels, particularly since the biggest gaps fell within the fleshtone range.

As the guy who spent most of the 80s defining colorimetry for half of Oklahoma, I expected to have more bones to pick with digital/flatpanel displays. Maybe I waited just long enough.
 
I think Sony was a good choice. If I had to do it again that's what I'd get. I have a 32" Samsung in my bedroom. Downstairs there is a 52" Sharp Aquos. I don't think you would like the Sharp, it's LCD and the backlighting is quite uneven on it. It's an earlier model - 2007. My Samsung OTOH has the LED backlighting and it's pretty even, I'm quite happy with the picture quality after spending a couple hours tuning it one day.

The black boxes is simply because of the SD content. Changing it to fill the screen would distort the image in unpleasant ways (like you've already seen) so I just leave it alone as well.

I don't think I would ever want to go back to a tube TV. I enjoy watching my HD shows and picking out every last detail on the sets too much.
 
I'm still using my 1990-something (IIRC) Magnavox CRT set. It works, although there was some drama last night when I tried watching a DVD. Not the good drama contained in the DVD content, but the set was acting up. Fortunately, it was only a cable issue.

When this set does die, it will likely be replaced with a similar CRT. They are so much cheaper than a new set. So are CRT TV cabinets--Goodwill charges insane prices for crap furniture, but I have seen real wood 1980s TV cabinets drop as low as $9 there. Much cheaper than a modern flatscreen TV stand. Plus I can shut the door, and not see all that tiresome plastic.

I suppose a newer set would have pluses. One for sure: it could be lighter/easier to move. That said...CRT works just fine for me. In recent history, most of my viewing has actually been old TV shows, which have a picture format that ideally fits the screen dimensions!
 
Past the possible picture quality advantages of LED, there is also the hope that the LED back lights will last longer. Perhaps a vain hope for longer TV service life, given how electronics are now throw away, but hope is always nice...
 
As I see, Sony TV's are a great choice for the bang of the buck!
I have 2 Sony's Bravia KDL-46XBR6 and 52XBR6 from 2008 and still working flawlessly.
This vintage new sets was the best TV's for its time!

Setting the TV's (Display Preference) takes a few minuets to get it right.

1: Make sure TV Ratio is set to (Widescreen 16:9).
2: TV resolutions is set only to (1080I or 1080P) or the highest setting for your set!
3: Video Native (OFF) Screen Format set to (Pillar Box).

I'm not sure if your TV has these capabilities but these settings work best for perfect viewing without all the odd images that drives me nuts when I go to Dr's offices or other common TV viewing areas...

The last photo is pillar box in Native form on (Unaltered).
Keep in mind that TV stations has mixed broadcasting so bar lines on the end will be shown for certain shows!

Enjoy your new set!!!

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cleanteamofny-2015112718121203721_3.jpg
 
Welcome to the world of HD, Rick! I was a late adopter, too, having finally kicked my late 1990s 35" Toshiba and 26" RCA to the curb during a city-wide cleanup last May. I purchased two identical LG's, as that's the only brand available locally.

I played with picture adjustments quite a bit but was never really happy with the results. Then I learned that Consumer Reports online provides optimal picture settings (which go deep into secondary menus) on models they've tested. I set the controls to their specifications and picture quality improved by orders of magnitude. All the hit-and-miss futzing in the world wouldn't have yielded such an excellent picture.

If you provide the screen size and model number, I'll gladly check online for your new Sony's optimal settings.

It's awesome you were able to purchase from a mom-n-pop store, too! I love supporting those businesses. They bend over backwards to provide great service.[this post was last edited: 11/27/2015-22:14]
 
Our 32" Sony Wega set that wouldn't turn on after a power failure finally turned back on again. This is the 225lb set I discussed in a thread a while back. If you turn the set off, it takes three days to come back on. So we just leave it on all the time. Every few weeks we get a power failure and the set turns off and it's 3 more days till it turns back on. So we have been using a Hitachi 19" portable set when that happens. The Hitachi is from about 1983 or so and gets a nice picture, for a CRT type of set. Nice color on it.

The problem with the Sony is a IC is bad on it. The IC is not in a socket, but wired into the HV circuit on the set. One local shop said it's expensive to repair because the IC is in a difficult to get to location and there is a lot of soldering to be done to put a new one in. So it's time for a new set. We bought the set in 2003 and I figured that for what we paid for it ($900) it should have lasted longer than it has. But when it's working, it gets one of the best pictures around.

So we are looking at new sets, probably in the 40" range. We want 120Hz or above too. We'd go with Sony again, but we have heard that their new sets are pretty unreliable and even with a service contract getting Sony to fix them is like pulling teeth. I'm not a fan of LG or Samsung. I'd look at JVC, but it's been at least 20 years since I have seen a JVC for sale anywhere. Do they even still make televisions?
 
Can't say that JVC makes ANYthing for the US market anymore. The electronics market is in no less turmoil than the laundry market.

I swore off Sony when their 7yo WEGA became unserviceable in 2009 due to lack of parts. Great pic and sound but couldn't be repaired at ANY price. Figured 'buy cheap cuz I'll just have to throw it away anyhow'. But when they gave me $$ off MSRP on a Sony with the right input array, just shrugged 'can't beat that'.

First thing with any Sony.... and most everybody elses'.... is they ship in 'display mode' that makes them look "bright" in the store. They've done that for decades, despite the exaggerated contrast (set to 95/100) makes them uncomfortable to watch and even defocuses CRTs. At 85 it's still too bright since advertisers figured that blinding you was a way to get attention, but just right for films that have an actual exposure range. I've got 'color' set one notch down and 'tint' set one notch red.

Have to say, with decades (feels like centuries) watching studio color, this set makes deep red shades (car paint) I've never seen on CRT.

Just happy it's not 'appalling' like the earlier CFLs were. BTW, whatever happened to plasma? That was the hot (literally) patoot a few years back.
 
>I swore off Sony when their 7yo WEGA became unserviceable in 2009 due to lack of parts. Great pic and sound but couldn't be repaired at ANY price. Figured 'buy cheap cuz I'll just have to throw it away anyhow'. But when they gave me $$ off MSRP on a Sony with the right input array, just shrugged 'can't beat that'.

Swearing off a brand for this sort of issue is something I might do in a moment of high dudgeon. That said...it's probably not a "Sony" issue. It's a "way the electronics industry is these days" issue.

Even high end audio equipment that cost $$$$ new may not be repairable as long as one might think it should be given the price...

>BTW, whatever happened to plasma? That was the hot (literally) patoot a few years back.

No idea, but I wonder too. I don't think I've seen a plasma set recently, although I only see new sets places like Target. That said...I suppose LCD-type technology simply improved so much that plasma no longer remained as appealing.
 
Another gripe I have with modern TV sets is the high glossy black frame most companies use. An idea perhaps stolen from Apple. No matter where it comes from, I hate them--partly because I find them too noticeable in my peripheral vision.

I do note some companies have models that have a flat or at least flatter black now, and if buying new, that would be one item on my checklist.
 
There are still Plazma Sets Around

but they are usually found in higher end places where they sell complete home entertainment systems.

I think one of the problems with the plasma televisions was power consumption and heat. I recently held my hand about a foot away from the front of the screen of a plasma set and it felt like an oven cooking. It takes some serious energy to make that much heat. Plasma sets use much more energy to operate than LCD and LED sets do.

Like I said this Hitatchi 19" CRT set we are using while the Sony makes up it's mind to whether or not it's going to turn on again was built in 1983. And the picture on it is very good still even for a CRT set, even after all these years.

Where we get our ideas about Sony reliability is that a friend of ours installs high end media rooms. They carry all the major brand names. But he said that for the past three years they have had so many problems with Sony sets either turning themselves off and not coming back on or the screen goes bad and needs to be replaced. Last year about 40% of the Sony sets they installed went bad. So they are pushing the LG and Samsung like everyone else is. Our friend thought Samsung was a bit better than LG. And just because you have an extended warranty on your Sony set doesn't mean that Sony is willing to help you out either.Just go to the back of the line like everyone else.

I thought about JVC and Hitatchi, but they have even more unreliable sets than Sony has.

It seems that sets are divided into different classes these days.

You have your high end televisions such as LG, Samsung and Sony and Panasonic
Then you have your middle of the road sets such as Visio, Polaroid and Hitatchi.

Then you have the BOL sets, HISENSE, Westinghouse, Element, etc.

I wonder how many different television companies there really are making televisions. Like are there only three of them making all the sets made?

And then there are the "holiday specials" that are made specifically for retailers to sell at door busting prices during the holidays. These sets may not have many features on them and some are even made from cheaper parts just to meet the price targets.
 
- Red Colours on New TV

As I understand, on the CRT tubes, Red is the first colour that starts deteriorating followed by blue, IIRC. 

 

- Plasma TV

We've got a 42" Panasonic from 2007. It may well be on its way out, there is a spot in the centre which is brighter with static at times, and makes some images look like there are "bees" or other insects floating around. 

 

The heat output is significant, but not an oven. Still it would be equivalent to a halogen light or two, and uses at least 400w/hr.

 

Picture always has been very good, bright and warm colours and all that stuff

 

- HD/SD Signals Themselves:

This is where I have something to say. Its all well and good selling TV's capable of this sort of quality, but only if the broadcasts are actually *IN* the sort of quality it ought to be. Thanks to the stupid number of TV stations on either Free-To-Air or Cable setups, they have to reduce the bandwidth of HD to at least half of what it ought to be. To fit in more HD channels, SD is squashed down to "barely-so," and they put more of 'them' in too. 

The result is pictures turn to pixelated mush in action scenes and anything more than still video. MPEG compression used for TV doesn't help, as it relies on 'dropping frames' to save on bandwidth. 

 

With the new "UltraHD/4K" business, I will be interested to see if they find another broadcast mechanism, or continue to sell the notion of "high quality" with the footnote (*only when you use pre-recorded items like commercial BluRays will you ever see this sort of quality again, sucker*). 
 
The first flat screen we bought was a lower priced AKAI 32" at an after Xmas sale and I can't complain about the picture in fact I've never seen anyones flat screen LCD tv that truly has a terrible picture. It has terrible sound though so I hooked it up to my old JVC receiver and speakers.. What a difference.   We got a 40 or 42" Samsung a couple of years ago and it's good as well, sound is decent but it's not hooked up to any external speakers and we're fine with it. The AKAI went to the basement.  What made the difference though was getting HD cable box which of course the cable co charges more for.  

 

And now there's ultra HD and all these other things like smart tv's etc. but I'm not biting for now. We don't download or stream movies, do on demand, any of that stuff.  I'm waiting for January when a new broadcasting law takes effect here in Canada forcing the cable company's to start offering low cost basic packages and pick and choose extra channels instead of having to buy packages with a pile of shite you don't want just to get one you do want. 
 
samsung UHD

Watched a new Samsung UHD,curved screen model and it was pretty impressive!I don't watch tv all that much,so that set would be way overkill for my watching :) my main flat TVs are a couple 2010 42" plasmas:one Panasonic the other sanyo,both have been good though the Panasonic has a little "burn"at top and bottom from store display,but not noticeable while watching.The TV I watch the most is my big 1982 zenith"space command"console:Once, when my brother came over on vacation,i noticed he kinda smirked at the sight of that big,old,'70s style tv,but all negative sentiment about it disappeared as soon as I turned it on-colors,picture and sound very good for such a dated looking set :)Back on the subject of modern TVs,seems OLED sets are out again-I kinda remember there were some avalible~2008,but quickly disappeared-short life of color accuracy one of the complaints of those early OLEDS...
 
Here in the US, the OTA, over the air free broadcasting of HDTV is not compressed. You only find a compressed signal on output from cable and satellite companies signals. So you get a better picture using an antenna.
 
At least this one was assembled on the North American continent (Mexico), albeit little doubt all Chinese parts.

The heat coming off it wouldn't melt a self-respecting Hershey bar.

Only artifact of the TV itself, somewhat narrow 'ideal' viewing angle. Though sitting aside it at ~60* like I am now, still quite good while shifted toward black. Already quite familiar with cable/digital artifacts, obvious even on the 19" CRT squintbox.

Model is KDL32R420B. Fiddled with the exotic menu settings, didn't find any uncompromising improvements. I've got a lot more time calibrating displays than Consumers has but I'd still be curious to see what they came up with. I did it with a scope to Tektronix specs. Even so, it took a couple years before the controlroom guys gave up trying to 'improve' on what the manual said.
 
Both articles reflect the turmoil, outsourcing, brandname abandonment/licensing. About 4 years ago, one of the last remaining repair shops told me Samsung makes almost all the panels and associated electronics, no matter whose name is on the set.

I'd go back and ask them about now, but they went out of business shortly after that. The Sony store has TWO technicians! One was working on a tube audio set. It's a family/legacy business.

I offered to GIVE them the old Emerson that was still working and a known/easy fix. No deal. You can't GIVE tube sets to ANYone. Not Goodwill, not Salivation Army, not even the Mexicans who used to come through periodically and pickup ANYthing, hoping to make one good one out of 5 bad ones. THAT'S turmoil.
 
CRT TV sets----The appliance dumpster at the dump site where I take my trash was LOADED with them!!!And would bet they would still work.Just that--NO ONE WANTS THEM!!!They want that new curved screen 4K HD LCD-LED backlit flatscreen set!!!Yes 4 K is impressive-but you are only limited to those demo clips shown on the set at the store.Movie theaters are starting to upgrade their projectors for 4K.Formerly--2K.And new projectors to be laser lit.No matter what set you buy today--there is a weak link in all of them----The CHEAP electrolytic caps used in their power supply board.These fail frequently-causing the owner to junk a relatively new set and buy another one-the cycle of the cheap electrolytic caps repeats---No more Sprague or Mallery or Nichicon caps in stuff now-some unknown cheap Chinese caps!And sadly when these caps fail--takes out other parts,too.When I buy a new TV quickly take it out of the "blowtorch" display mode to the cinema-smooth mode--MUCH better.And you can do this at the store,too so you can see what the set truely looks like.I so wish stores would dim the lighting in the TV display area-then you can truely tell how good the TV is rather than being washed out by store lights.You don't look at your TV at home with glaring lights??Another thought--if you adjust the set to the "cinema" or "movie" mode you may be able to skip that store setup that you have to PAY for!
 
The junk caps were starting to plague Dell as I was on my way out. They knew they were junk but that's just what they wanted. So obviously no need for a quality audit engineer. Could have gone to Boeing or some such but one needs to be invited there. It's who you know....

The Sony CRT had 4 or 5 picture modes. I just fixed the default one and never changed it. I mean like, right is right, right?

The HD Sony has them too. They ship with all too exaggerated. There's one that drives the panel well into clipping. Think if you sit close enough you get a sunburn.
 
Of the approximately one billion sets they tested this year, yours isn't one of them. Here's the closest I could find. Don't know if these settings apply to your model, but it might be fun to try them out. Their recommendations really improved the picture on my two 32" LG's. The only change I made was to dim the picture a bit on the set in my bedroom. The room is usually completely dark when I watch in there and the picture just seemed too bright. The living room (where the other set resides) has more ambient light and the prescribed settings are perfect.

I don't expect these LCD televisions to last as long as our old CRT's, but they are sure a lot easier to pick up and move around, LOL. Mine weigh only about 12 pounds each. Am also getting spoiled by the quality of HD. Can't imagine how detailed UHD must be.

Sony Bravia KDL32R500C

Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast (Picture): 95
Brightness: 53
Gamma: 0
Color: 52
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temperature: Warm
Backlight: 6
Aspect Ratio: Full (Display Area= +1)
Miscellaneous: CineMotion= Auto
 
I will be curious about the longevity of the latest LCD TV's. Most all of the computer monitor failures I have seen/repaired have almost always been due to the florescent back light or its inverter board. With the latest crop of LED back lit models I would wager that their longevity may well have increased.

The newest LED models are running at ~100w draw (or less) even for the 60" models. This makes a difference in the internal temperature levels which cause premature capacitor aging etc. Of course the manufacturers then make the panel about 1/2" thick and remove the vents so perhaps the internal temps may stay higher.

I have a Ham friend here in town that owns a Panasonic repair center. They do lots of repairs on the older flat panel TV's. So they are still fixable. There is a neat company in the area here called Shop Jimmy that sells recycled PC board assemblies for flat panel TV's and monitors.

Attached photo is from a recent repair I did on an 8 year old Toshiba 42" LCD TV. TV was totally dead. Photos shows the main power supply board dislocated and being inspected by Kalli the electronic wonder cat. She knew it was an open R40 fusible resistor while I was still suspecting the capacitors... TV is back on the wall hauling the mail once again.

Personally I can't watch SD anymore unless I'd really far from the TV or if it is small. Big screen TVs of the past always bothered me too. I will take smaller and tack sharp over big and mushy any day. Some people think that size is all that matters. I see this at the astronomy events too where people are observing Mars at 300x and it's just a big orange fuzzy ball. It looks so much better at 150x and tack sharp.

As for buying a new TV it would be an LED back lit LCD and it would have to be a 4K (price point is good now). Only brands I would consider are Samsung, Sony or Panasonic (maybe LG). It is true that a majority of the parts are sourced from a couple companies, but I won't make a major purchase from a company that I have never heard of. I'm also perceptive enough to catch when a name is being "whore'ed" about, like seeing an RCA or Zenith TV today... Humor at its best!

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S-h-h-h DAD, don't jinx it.

The 500 is the model-year successor to the 420. I'm partial to 420 if you know what I mean. The biggest difference is that one or more features migrated to the smaller screen from the larger the year before.

They left 'contrast' at 95/100? And color temp 'warm'??? Well that's about par for Consumer's these days. Why I let my longterm subscription lapse 10 years ago.

Yes, we (Dell) had mounting failures of laptop CFL backlights. They were also very uneven, as the actual light source was a bar horizontally across the screen. Pritmuch a non-issue, I know of no current TV model still using CFL. Without even getting into the CFL colorimetry issues.

Though LED colorimetry isn't 'exactly' right. HBO broadcasts color bars late night. The transitions-- perhaps most significant-- are near perfect. The yellows are slanted toward orange. Well if you had to pick a place in the gamut to put errors, it would be making yellows closer to orange/fleshtone. Unless what you were looking at was ACTUALLY yellow, in which case it wouldn't be. But with the colortemp set to 'warm' you wouldn't know one way or the other. Because 'warm' is plus yellow-orange and minus blue. That's how this stuff works.

It's also why they give you the choice. Because not everybody sees things the same way, and even when they CAN they may choose NOT to. However, a Sony at contrast 95 is wrong, whether it's CRT, LCD, or XYZ. That's the store-display (marketing) default. You know, 'marketing'. As in, making you think something that isn't true is, but as-worded can't be prosecuted by the FTC. As in, "Billy Mays here".
 
>I will be curious about the longevity of the latest LCD TV's. Most all of the computer monitor failures I have seen/repaired have almost always been due to the florescent back light or its inverter board. With the latest crop of LED back lit models I would wager that their longevity may well have increased.

I'm curious, too.

Although in my cynical moments--24/7 most of the time now--I wonder if they haven't found ways of cheapening something so the overall lifespan remains as appalling as ever. If the set doesn't wear out quickly, we won't toss it--and, more importantly--buy a new set, keeping the wheels of industry busy spinning round and round.
 
I'm still happy with my over ten year old 42 inch Vizio LCD flat screen. My only complaint, really, is that the remote control swaps the location of the volume and channel buttons... volume is on the right... I've seen other Asian sourced electronics use that positioning, so it may be a cultural thing.

 

The advantage to the Visio is that it's not ultra thin like more modern flat panels. This means there's more room in the "cabinet" for decent speakers and sound. In fact, while I have hooked it up to a sound system and external speakers in the past, for the last five years of so I just use the built-in speakers and they work just fine. Of course they don't reproduce multi-channel sound but what the hey. The Visio also has a full complement of inputs, everything from two HDMI inputs to coax, composite, component, and optical audio. I use one of the HDMI inputs for the Blu-ray player, and the other one for a Chromecast gadget (which is wonderful,by the way). It's a 1080p set, by the way, which was one of my requirements at the time.

 

I've been tempted to "upgrade" to a larger, LED lit display, but really can't justify the expense. The Vizio is mounted above the living room fireplace. It's a location that I've heard some women disparage, they generally say "it's a guy thing", but I like it there better than a mirror or painting. I have a friend who has a later, different model Vizio, which I don't care for as much because it has fewer inputs, limited adjustments, and overall a cheaper look.

 

I've also got a couple of small Samsung panels. One I'm using for my computer monitor. The other one sits in the bedroom but is rarely used. Also a 32" LED 720p Westinghouse in the "study". These have tinny sound, and for two of them I use small external speakers to amp it up.

 

I'm a bit bemused by the latest "advances" in flat panel TV's. LED backlight is all well and good. But curved screens? Really? 3D? really? Not sure yet about the 4k. Blu-ray/1080 seems good enough to me.

 

If you're close enough to a major urban center, try over-the-air TV broadcast reception. Most stations offer high def signals, like 1080i, which often beat typical cable and satellite signals in terms of quality. Best of all, it's free.
 
Curved Screen = Curved-assed gimmick

There is really zero advantage to having a curved screen except perhaps for reducing ambient light reflections for a very small seating area.

I am fully convinced that this was done entirely as a ploy by the manufacturers to attempt to force another "upgrade movement" to spur sales. When we made the DTV changeover these manufacturers had the good fortune of basically replacing 75% of the TV's in the field over a short span. Sales were through the roof! But then after everyone had switched over sales slowed drastically. So then voila we have 4K, something that is cool, but way before its time and too soon. People were unswayed by a 4K upgrade since there is very little content at this point. How about if we curve the screen? I have known of people that got off the couch to open their wallet for that...

As for the manufactures _intentionally_ building in a reduced lifespan into a product? I'll call paranoia on that, I just don't believe that it is done intentionally. On the other hand, consumer pressure to make everything we buy be dirt inexpensive, that I KNOW reduces the lifespan of most everything we buy. Remember the pain of poor quality lives on long after the joy of low price has faded.
 

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