Will The TR Series Ever Go Away? Please?

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

@chetlaham

I don't think I need to be converted nor do I think others should be converted. But before you think you got a mission, I have been in the USA and in Canada quite a few times and have stayed at people's homes and also visited conventions and wash-ins. I think I have used more classic and modern North American machines than you have used European machines. Besides that I have had quite a few washers myself from all sorts. So I know what is out there on your side of the pond.

But that is not what my point was about. My main point was that it is rude to accuse people who say they like their machine of lying.
 
I'm glad that we can agree no one should be force converted- just the way non green folks should not be converted to green folks and visa versa.

 

I still wish you could try a TOL Kenmore Elite for the fun of it just so I could get your take on it. You have a lot of insight to offer on these things.

 

Regarding WindRivers I think he may have been referring to member Combo52 (who likes to be called John) instead of member John76 since I remember combo52 made a statement about the TR motors using less energy than the TCs. Windrivers would ultimately be able to clarify.
 
I don't understand what's so special about that Kenmore Elite. Just a three speed direct drive IMHO. I prefer the series before this one because that at least had all the temperature options (including Hot-Warm).

But I have used other American machines that I liked better. I prefer the belt drive Whirlpool machines because their sound is way nicer. I also liked the older Speed Queens with the clanking solenoids including the beautiful 1959 model with dispenser. I have used Frigidaire Unimatics, Multimatics, Pulsamatics etc. etc.

I have "played" with Maytags, Speed Queens, Whirlpools and Kenmores and lots of other machines. I also watched new and/or commercial machines working etc. etc. That Kenmore Elite doesn't get me excited I'm afraid.
 
I agree with Louis on the older Whirlpool belt drive machines. They have a unique sound that’s distinguishable/easily identifiable and is cool seeing everything in operation with the rear access panel removed. Crazy as this sounds, I have more experience with the belt drive machines than I do the direct drives, so far the experience has been great. Making repairs and adjustments can be a little cumbersome if you are trying to do it in a laundry room but if you can move it out to a driveway or a open garage, getting access to everything is a cinch. Nice thing is the neutral drain can’t really fail on those machines unless the plunger for the spin is broken causing the tub to spin when agitating.

It’s been awhile since I’ve used my Whirlpool but I have to either find a replacement timer or find someone who can scan and 3D print the original cam assembly in the timer since it unfortunately separated on me earlier this January and the repair attempt mostly worked but doesn’t do anything on the gentle cycle other than fill up, agitate, and drain. Could get away with not using the gentle cycle but usually like to have everything in working order before putting it back into service. Don’t feel like taking it apart more than I have to and just want to get every done correctly the first time around.
 
Reply 21

Yes, I'm taking about combo52, I apologize for the confusion. I thought it would be more obvious that I was referring specifically to Laundress' reply #9, and combo52's reply in #106 of https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?91608_110, and also his previous praise of the TR over the TC in a previous thread, and had missed the fact that another John had posted in this thread. I apologize specifically to John76. I have no reason to doubt his personal experience.

Who is making assumptions? I wouldn't have given the example from other threads if you hadn't assumed I was making assumptions without knowing the background of what I was talking about. The fact that I wasn't quoting the John in this thread should have been a clue. I didn't see the need in my previous reply to call out specific members.

What is rude is making, shall we say "questionable" statements, and then when called out on them running to other threads to make more questionable statements, and then when pressed further suggest that the person asking the questions isn't intelligent enough to understand if he gave the answer. I believe the other member is just basically stating his opinions and things he can't prove as fact. Sometimes I believe he misremembers things, or that what he writes is a typo, hyperbole, or whatever. But when someone misstates something, and then can't back it up or take back, and then continues to make such statements then yes, I consider him dishonest.

Another thing that is rude is suggesting that only certain people speaking about certain things should be allowed to post. Again, that's on another thread.

Yet another thing is accusing others of making assumptions, as if what they say isn't based on something.

I could be wrong, but one certain member I had in mind claims to have been a repair tech in Beltsville, which is in the Washington DC area. I believe DC is either the most or second most affluent area in the country. I'm not clear on who his customers are now or what his business is, but I assume (okay, maybe I did make at least one assumption :)) that at least many people who buy the Speed Queens in that area do have some money, and that they aren't farmers getting dirty.

I'm also making the assumption (oops another assumption) based on what I've seen and read that most people buying the TC5 are doing so because of the classic wash action, and they are doing it consciously and knowledgeably. I would be surprised if people opting for the TC5 over the TR series being pushed by SQ and their dealers then turn around and wash exclusively on the Eco cycle. I also assume that those who do and are happy with the results are office workers or such. I also have to wonder exactly how many people he meets that have a TC5 and volunteer what cycle they use. I would hope, if he's still working as a tech, that he hasn't had to repair that many no longer than they have been out. So given his past history, I am skeptical of everything he says.
 
 
WindRivers, your member profile shows your sign-up date as April 2022 so you haven't been posting very long.  You may have been reading the board prior to that date but you're apparently not aware of the history.  Combo52, aka John Lefever, is an experienced service technician and appliance dealer in Beltsville MD area.  He and his brother Jeff_Adelphi (Jeff Lefever) are among the founding members of this group.  A large gathering was held at their location in August 2002.  Many early members were there.  I was there (also at the 2001 gathering in Minneapolis and 2005 in Omaha).

Perhaps the information at this link will be of interest to you.

Development of the Automatic Washer Club
 
Thanks Glenn. I'm really more interested in facts than an individual's history. He may be an excellent technician who had helped many with repairs, a founding member, etc., but I don't think that gives him the right to make up his own "facts" and treat other members with disrespect. Of course, if he's an owner of the board, or has pull with the owner, I guess he can do what he wants.
 
Reply #26

That link was fascinating. Makes me wish I'd discovered this board earlier. The early 2000's appeared to be a sort of high point for the vintage appliance hobby. Although I can't repair my own machines, reading and learning about them is very interesting.
 
Reply number 27 in a lot of others

Hi Jeff , I stopped even bothering responding to your nonsense. When you say things like an induction motor is 90% efficient. It gave me my laugh of the day.

Why do you think manufactures would go to all the trouble of doing a three phase motor with a circuit board and everything if an induction motor is 90% efficient answer that please.

New machines use a fraction of the materials in energy to build even if they last a much shorter time they’re still going to save a lot of energy if you don’t like that want to keep your old machines more power to you.

I am still working full-time. I don’t have time to answer nonsense questions all the time I will occasionally answer them if you make an intelligent question.

I also don’t take people very seriously ifthey don’t post anything about themselves their experience, their age where they live you just don’t have any credibility.

John
 
Thanks for your reply John (combo52).

Manufacturers are going to circuit boards and three phase motors because they are variable speed without a transmission and cheaper to produce. Probably the biggest reason is the cost. Is that not correct? Yes, they may save a little electricity, but over 75%?

You claimed that the TR motor used 1/4 the energy of the motor in a TC, is that not correct? Are you saying the motor in the TC is less than 25% efficient, or the motor in the TR is well over 100% efficient? Or is one of us just simply not understanding physics? BTW, I don't believe that being an experienced repair tech automatically makes one a physicist, mechanical and electrical engineer, or that he isn't biased enough to only give part of the truth even if he does know the facts.

As someone who does like to repair and keep quality equipment, I will keep my machines running as long as I can, thank you. I guess we'll just have to disagree that junk that "lasts a much shorter time" and is made out of wonderful lightweight plastic and other inferior products, is going to save me energy in the long run. I assume that's what using "a fraction of the materials in energy to build" means. From experience, buying cheap lightweight products over and over again is at the least not going to save me money. We could have cheap energy if it wasn't for all the nonsense. There are other issues concerning obtaining and using natural resources, and having to replace major appliances much more often, other than energy itself, even assuming a large amount is recyclable. BTW, as much as you promote today's cheap products, I bet you're glad you have the Speed Queen you claimed to have bought 118 years ago, though I assume you meant 18 years ago.

I guess I'm somewhat paranoid about giving too much information over the internet that is visible to everyone. I think people should be judged rather on the veracity of what they say than who they are. As I said, being a repair tech for example doesn't make you an expert on energy, climate, manufacturing, or whatever you may think you are. I'm not a respecter of persons. It's your knowledge and honesty that gives you credibility, not your age, or whatever. Your experience also adds to it, but not when you think you can somehow use it to speak authoritatively outside your field of expertise, or spout nonsense as fact. It does say on my posts where I live since that supposedly has some bearing on my credibility somehow.
 
To Address The Rudness

I think Reply 29 is a perfect microcosm of what WindRivers is getting at.

 

 

<blockquote>
"I stopped even bothering responding to your nonsense."

 

"It gave me my laugh of the day. "

"I don’t have time to answer nonsense questions all the time"


 

"...if you make an intelligent question. "

"I also don’t take people very seriously"


 

"...their age where they live you just don’t have any credibility."

 

 

</blockquote>
 



When John makes such statements they are interpreted as being disparaging, demeaning, insulting and hurtful toward others. Such remarks coming from an experienced technician only makes the comments sound like they are coming out of arrogance.


 

Further withholding credibility based on age or location comes across as a form of discrimination. I in particular can see that being triggering to young members whom from an early age know more about washers than most adults, but are not taken seriously by those around them simply because they are seen as kids, young, on the spectrum, ect, ect.  And that would be ignoring the fact this community is comprised of many members who face discrimination on a daily basis ie not everyone can grasp LGBTQIA++, minority struggles, Neuro diversity, appliance passion, ect ect.


 

 

 

This forum has to be a safe place for everyone regardless of who they are, they're life experience, or their background. Putting individuals down is not ok. Nobody here deserves to be spoken down to.


 

 

The goal should be to discuss appliance and associated physics not people as a person or their character.

 

 
 
Reply 29, Induction Motor

<blockquote>
"Why do you think manufactures would go to all the trouble of doing a three phase motor with a circuit board and everything if an induction motor is 90% efficient answer that please. "


 

</blockquote>
 

 

Uh. Speed Queen's 3 phase motors are induction motors.

 

There is no 3 phase motor vs an induction motor. Both are classified as induction due to their squirrel cage rotor.

 

One just happens to be single phase capacitor start, the other 3 phase variable frequency driven.

 

If you're going to state facts, get your terminology right.   

 

 
 
Kenmore Elite

 

@foraloysius: These are very special washers in that they have every feature one could ever ask for.

 

 

Speed, reliability, durability, clothing care, cleaning, performance, usability, ease of service, ect. 

 

 

20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.

 

No other washer comes close in many regards, all the positives in every make, model and brand rolled into one Kenmore Elite.

 

 

 
 
 
<blockquote>20+ year life expectancy, king size capacity, auto soak and auto prewash cycles, a real cool down, auto temperature control in both the wash and rinse, 3 automatic dispensers, timed bleach, a real permanent press cool down, extra rinse, immaculate thorough wash action, real handwash and fine delicate speeds, real heavy duty cycle, auto second rinse, arthritis friendly knobs, dual action agitator, one of the best suspension systems, multi padding quiet pack, 30 minute cycles, one of the fastest fills, thorough rinsing, best cleaning ever, great extraction... I'm leaving a lot out.

No other washer comes close in many regards, all the positives in every make, model and brand rolled into one Kenmore Elite.</blockquote> And the majority of consumers who own(ed) one ended up running the Normal/Ultra Clean cycle (maybe with extra rinse) on maximum speed and non-ATC cold temperature at half-ish the usable capacity?  ;-)
 
Sometime- but got the cleanest clothes in the world, in 30 minutes, at low sound levels, for 20 years with few lemons. Just can't beat it.

 

Most around here use warm wash, so cold was rarely in the equation.

 

I'm just glad I was able to see this piece of history when it was on the Sears sales floor in the mid 2000s when I could moderately appreciate what I was experiencing. Today that appreciation has only grown.   
 
 
<blockquote>I don't see the tr series removing tough ground-in dirt from jeans like the tc can with its powerful motor.</blockquote> The TR motor is rated at 1 HP per the stated product specifications. The TC motor is rated half HP.

Perhaps you should try washing jeans with ground-in dirt in a TR model on the appropriate Heavy Duty cycle to determine whether your prediction is correct.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top