philr
Well-known member
Speaking about efficiency, I recently posted this link in another thread.
AN EER of 12 in 1972?!
AN EER of 12 in 1972?!
Window Air Conditioners Good and Bad
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At one time, Friedrich was known as the Cadillac of air conditioners. Of course, that was when the Cadillac name meant something also. Georgia Power sold Friedrich as their premium brand. There was also Randall Brothers, an old, carriage trade company that sold lumber & construction supplies in Atlanta that used to run ads in the paper for Friedrich heat pumps and central ac units. My 8th grade homeroom teacher and her husband got their Friedrich heat pump through them when they went total electric in 1964. In addition to using efficient fan motors and compressors, I think super efficient air conditioners had to have larger evaporators and condensers which meant using more copper.
fan-of-fans
Well-known member
I would go with a split system if possible. I find the window units way too noisy when I try to sleep in motels with them. Even the hotel style units are loud to my ears, but I am used to central air.
The house next to me is being fixed up and they put some LG units in the bedrooms. I have never seen such small units other than the low profile type.
As far as units plugged in in the stores, I do recall for a short time recently Sears had a display of A/C units blowing ribbons. I'm not sure if they were on cool or just the fan blowing.
The house next to me is being fixed up and they put some LG units in the bedrooms. I have never seen such small units other than the low profile type.
As far as units plugged in in the stores, I do recall for a short time recently Sears had a display of A/C units blowing ribbons. I'm not sure if they were on cool or just the fan blowing.
whirlcool
Well-known member
Growing up in the Chicago area I used to notice what brand A/C units people had in their windows. Esp when I had my paper route. I'd see Westinghouse, lots and lots of Fedders, some Norge's and various Coldspots, Frigidaires and GE's. But I never saw any Friedrich units.
When I went to school in Lousiana in 1972, Friedrich was the brand most often seen!
It seemed that everyone had them. I often wondered why I never saw the brand in Chicago. This would have been in the 60's. (61-69)
When I went to school in Lousiana in 1972, Friedrich was the brand most often seen!
It seemed that everyone had them. I often wondered why I never saw the brand in Chicago. This would have been in the 60's. (61-69)
I found Kenmore's of the 80's to be very quiet, I bought two units, the other was a Whirlpool of the same design, yet it was loud, could not figure that one out...
I prefer the AUTO setting units, where it shuts down the entire unit when not cooling, some object to this style, but its what I want, and wont use anything else....
what I find funny is people who get Central Air installed, and sell their window units off on CL as no longer needed....noting that they should keep one or two small units.....not all homes have two central units, and if that unit goes down, what do you do for cooling until it gets fixed?....at least a small unit for the bedroom will suffice...better than nothing....I have central, and spares, just in case.....
I can't always agree on having central......cooling an entire house if not needed.....window units can be noisy for some cases, actually some people like it to sleep to drown outside noises......and sometimes I find window units efficient as I only have to cool certain rooms.......
with central, its not advised to shut off vents or close rooms off, as it can throw the unit into havoc!....
I prefer the AUTO setting units, where it shuts down the entire unit when not cooling, some object to this style, but its what I want, and wont use anything else....
what I find funny is people who get Central Air installed, and sell their window units off on CL as no longer needed....noting that they should keep one or two small units.....not all homes have two central units, and if that unit goes down, what do you do for cooling until it gets fixed?....at least a small unit for the bedroom will suffice...better than nothing....I have central, and spares, just in case.....
I can't always agree on having central......cooling an entire house if not needed.....window units can be noisy for some cases, actually some people like it to sleep to drown outside noises......and sometimes I find window units efficient as I only have to cool certain rooms.......
with central, its not advised to shut off vents or close rooms off, as it can throw the unit into havoc!....
philr
Well-known member
I can't agree more about having the "auto" setting. I have two outlets with line thermostats to run my older air conditioners that don't have an auto setting that switches the blower to off. So I just leave the thermostat of the air conditioner to the coldest setting and set the temperature on the line thermostat so everything shuts off when there's no need for it.
My 1966 Frigidaire air conditioner also has an "automatic cooling" setting but all it does is switch the fan to low speed when the room temperature gets close to the set temperature on the thermostat. When the temperature drops a bit more, the compressor stops but the blower remains on low speed. That requires a thermostat with two sets of contacts that open and close at different temperatures but it still doesn't shut the blower off when the compressor stops.
My 1966 Frigidaire air conditioner also has an "automatic cooling" setting but all it does is switch the fan to low speed when the room temperature gets close to the set temperature on the thermostat. When the temperature drops a bit more, the compressor stops but the blower remains on low speed. That requires a thermostat with two sets of contacts that open and close at different temperatures but it still doesn't shut the blower off when the compressor stops.
Back in the day 60's early 70's most people around here either bought them from Sears or Woolco where I worked a short stint. Woolco carried Emerson Quiet Kools and on those insufferable summer nights people would be coming into the store right up to 10pm when the store closed and carting them out, fans too. Couldn't keep enough in stock. The folks bought ours from Wilsons TV & Appliance downtown, an Admiral, being they were an Admiral dealer. Pauls TV at Northgate across from Sears sold RCA iirc. Sears and Woolco no doubt sold the most being as people could use their store card to pay for them cause they weren't cheap relatively speaking like they are today.
gusherb
Well-known member
I disagree that window units are cheaper to run then central air. There's many factors to it but the only way I see that actually being the case is if your central A/C is an ancient 10 SEER or less system matched to poor ductwork and most likely way oversized. And also if the single room your cooling is small and sealed off from other rooms with a door.
Outside of that there's almost no way that central air is less efficient then a window unit, which those units are generally quite inefficient compared to even lower efficiency central units. And when using a window unit it's extremely crucial to seal all gaps around the window and even doing it meticulously can still leave it quite a bit more leaky with a window unit in it vs just having it closed.
5 years ago when our downstairs central unit took a dump (for the last time) I took a GE (Electrolux) 12,000 BTU window A/C I had and put it in one of the sliding doors and then fashioned up a board to seal the massive gap above it and sealed everything meticulously and then added a register boot and adjustable 6" elbow to the front of the outlet to direct airflow more precisely (this worked beautifully). All because we have no double hung windows. This worked perfectly to cool half of the lower level, but in the end the utility bill actually came in 200 Kwh's higher then the month prior (was the same temp both summer months) when the at the time 20 yr old 2.5 ton 9 SEER condensing unit for the main level still worked.
Also in the summer of 2012 during the heat wave I picked up a new/used Friedrich Zoneaire 12,000 BTU portable A/C which had the double hoses so you don't suck out cooled air, to cool the 14x25 family room and again the utility bill was the same as when we ran central air for the whole main level.
Outside of that there's almost no way that central air is less efficient then a window unit, which those units are generally quite inefficient compared to even lower efficiency central units. And when using a window unit it's extremely crucial to seal all gaps around the window and even doing it meticulously can still leave it quite a bit more leaky with a window unit in it vs just having it closed.
5 years ago when our downstairs central unit took a dump (for the last time) I took a GE (Electrolux) 12,000 BTU window A/C I had and put it in one of the sliding doors and then fashioned up a board to seal the massive gap above it and sealed everything meticulously and then added a register boot and adjustable 6" elbow to the front of the outlet to direct airflow more precisely (this worked beautifully). All because we have no double hung windows. This worked perfectly to cool half of the lower level, but in the end the utility bill actually came in 200 Kwh's higher then the month prior (was the same temp both summer months) when the at the time 20 yr old 2.5 ton 9 SEER condensing unit for the main level still worked.
Also in the summer of 2012 during the heat wave I picked up a new/used Friedrich Zoneaire 12,000 BTU portable A/C which had the double hoses so you don't suck out cooled air, to cool the 14x25 family room and again the utility bill was the same as when we ran central air for the whole main level.
launderess
Well-known member
Friedrich Air Conditioners *Used* To Be TOL
But as with everything else in the consumer appliance market changes happened.
If you look inside most newer Friedrich ACs you will see lots of Styrofoam and plastic. In contrast my old Wallmaster unit that died a few years ago after decades of use was mostly entirely metal inside.
Friedrich claims it needed to make changes in order to remain competitive in the market in terms of price and other factors. Suppose that is true....
My new Wallmaster is only a few years old and already makes rattling noise. If you push down on one corner it will quiet down. Otherwise things are often so loud cannot hear the television or sleep without ear plugs. Am rather sensitive to noise so perhaps it isn't *that* bad. However when you walk along NYC streets Friedrich ACs both wall and window are often no more quieter than anything else.
Where Friedrich does shine is they still have USA customer tech support. You can call and if you time things correctly speak to someone that speaks English and knows what he or she is talking about.
Personally would grab a used but in good condition older Friedrich AC in a heart beat. My previous Wallmaster was just such a unit picked up for <$100 or so and gave over a decade of excellent use.
But as with everything else in the consumer appliance market changes happened.
If you look inside most newer Friedrich ACs you will see lots of Styrofoam and plastic. In contrast my old Wallmaster unit that died a few years ago after decades of use was mostly entirely metal inside.
Friedrich claims it needed to make changes in order to remain competitive in the market in terms of price and other factors. Suppose that is true....
My new Wallmaster is only a few years old and already makes rattling noise. If you push down on one corner it will quiet down. Otherwise things are often so loud cannot hear the television or sleep without ear plugs. Am rather sensitive to noise so perhaps it isn't *that* bad. However when you walk along NYC streets Friedrich ACs both wall and window are often no more quieter than anything else.
Where Friedrich does shine is they still have USA customer tech support. You can call and if you time things correctly speak to someone that speaks English and knows what he or she is talking about.
Personally would grab a used but in good condition older Friedrich AC in a heart beat. My previous Wallmaster was just such a unit picked up for <$100 or so and gave over a decade of excellent use.
philr
Well-known member
That GE from Wal Mart is quite interesting!
I don't know how good or efficient it is but the high tech features certainly distinguishes it from the BOL $80 window shakers that most people now have in mind when they think about window-mounted air conditioners.
About the split or central units, they are usually less noisy but some which are mounted to the wood structure of houses can transmit vibration and can still be quite noisy. Some split units have a better EER/SEER and you don't have to deal with air leaks in or around the cabinets but even if they are now much less expensive than they used to be (and some don't require to be installed by a technician), they still cost a lot more than comparable window models and probably don't last any longer...Over the years, I got many for free (even a brand new Chinese 5200 BTU that I won and gave immediately after!) and the most I ever paid for a window air conditioner was $100 and I had quite a few good working ones among them that I had to give away to friends as I just had too many!
BTW I have a split heat pump at home with 18,000 BTU inverter but it's not very useful for heating in winter as it just gets too cold here and I still need two more window units for bedrooms in the summer as there's no central heat here (just baseboard heaters and a wood stove in the basement that doesn't get much use).
I don't know how good or efficient it is but the high tech features certainly distinguishes it from the BOL $80 window shakers that most people now have in mind when they think about window-mounted air conditioners.
About the split or central units, they are usually less noisy but some which are mounted to the wood structure of houses can transmit vibration and can still be quite noisy. Some split units have a better EER/SEER and you don't have to deal with air leaks in or around the cabinets but even if they are now much less expensive than they used to be (and some don't require to be installed by a technician), they still cost a lot more than comparable window models and probably don't last any longer...Over the years, I got many for free (even a brand new Chinese 5200 BTU that I won and gave immediately after!) and the most I ever paid for a window air conditioner was $100 and I had quite a few good working ones among them that I had to give away to friends as I just had too many!
BTW I have a split heat pump at home with 18,000 BTU inverter but it's not very useful for heating in winter as it just gets too cold here and I still need two more window units for bedrooms in the summer as there's no central heat here (just baseboard heaters and a wood stove in the basement that doesn't get much use).
sudsmaster
Well-known member
About 10 years ago I bought a couple of small (5350 BTU) Daewoo window units at Costco. They were $99 each, with a $50 rebate from PG&E. So they came out to about $50 each. They worked well enough for my bedroom and adjacent family room, but I found I only needed to run them a couple of weeks a year, and it was a hassle to mount them in my horizontal sliding windows (I made plexiglass window spacers) and a greater hassle to dismount them in the fall.
I don't recall them being particularly noisy although I think I only ran them at the lower speed in the bedroom when trying to sleep.
Made in China, of course, with a 10.5 EER. Not great, and I also hesitated to use them much because they were costing me $.30/KWh at our tiered rates. But I keep them in the original boxes in storage just in case of a prolonged heat wave. So far I've been able to cope by using fans to blow in cool air at night and then closing all the windows and shades in the morning. And we really haven't had any hot days this spring anyway.
There's a big old GE unit in the enclosed patio, mounted high in a wall near the ceiling. It blows the circuit breaker when the compressor comes on, though. What I like about it are the various venting features - it can be used to vent fresh air in or out as well as conditioning inside air. I wish modern windows units were like that. Another reason why I don't like window units: you can't open the window for normal ventilation when the A/C isn't needed (common around here, where the temps can vary greatly from day to day and A/C isn't needed all the time, esp at night).
I don't recall them being particularly noisy although I think I only ran them at the lower speed in the bedroom when trying to sleep.
Made in China, of course, with a 10.5 EER. Not great, and I also hesitated to use them much because they were costing me $.30/KWh at our tiered rates. But I keep them in the original boxes in storage just in case of a prolonged heat wave. So far I've been able to cope by using fans to blow in cool air at night and then closing all the windows and shades in the morning. And we really haven't had any hot days this spring anyway.
There's a big old GE unit in the enclosed patio, mounted high in a wall near the ceiling. It blows the circuit breaker when the compressor comes on, though. What I like about it are the various venting features - it can be used to vent fresh air in or out as well as conditioning inside air. I wish modern windows units were like that. Another reason why I don't like window units: you can't open the window for normal ventilation when the A/C isn't needed (common around here, where the temps can vary greatly from day to day and A/C isn't needed all the time, esp at night).
toploader55
Well-known member
Laundress nailed it...
My Friedrich started to vibrate and rattle after the first year of use. The Air Sweep was the first thing to make a racket.
Then it was the entire unit. I used to walk by it and give it a punch and it would quiet down. Then that didn't work anymore. Then I tugged on it, smacked it, went ouside and tapped it, all indicators pointed to a installation malfunction, but it was just the unit. I ended up sliding it out of the case and tightening every exposed screw. This helped for about 36 hours, then all the screws and parts needed retightening.
I'll see on my day off this week if I can find a old vintage unit off Cape.
That GE from Walmart... Why do I need something tracking my A/C usage ? Just cool the room quietly. That's not asking much.
My Friedrich started to vibrate and rattle after the first year of use. The Air Sweep was the first thing to make a racket.
Then it was the entire unit. I used to walk by it and give it a punch and it would quiet down. Then that didn't work anymore. Then I tugged on it, smacked it, went ouside and tapped it, all indicators pointed to a installation malfunction, but it was just the unit. I ended up sliding it out of the case and tightening every exposed screw. This helped for about 36 hours, then all the screws and parts needed retightening.
I'll see on my day off this week if I can find a old vintage unit off Cape.
That GE from Walmart... Why do I need something tracking my A/C usage ? Just cool the room quietly. That's not asking much.
gusherb
Well-known member
One good thing about every styrofoam packed A/C I've used is they don't vibrate! And they provide more insulation then just some thin plastic. I guess that's why they switched to the stuff, despite that I can poke my finger straight through it.
In the last couple of years we've bought 2 window air conditioners, a 6,000 and a 10,000. We paid a little extra to move up to the Sharp brand. They run quietly, and the thermostats are nice and accurate. These seem to be a big step above the Frigidaire (Electrolux) crud.
Ken D.
Ken D.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
I've read about the Aros and I'm totally lost as to how this is makes anything better/easier/more efficient/etc.
I've lived 80% of my life along the Interstate 95 corridor somewhere in or between the Boston and NYC metro areas. Therefore my a/c experiences reflect that climate.
The main issue is humidity. I assume proximity to the ocean plays a role. Literally every single person I know who has a house also has a dehumidifier in the basement. High 70's/low 80's temps are often very uncomfortable because the humidity is so high. If one has several window a/c units, one can close up the house and run just one or 2 units. That is often enough to keep the indoor humidity down to a comfortable level.
If one has properly sized central a/c, the unit turns off because the target temp has been reached but the humidity is still uncomfortably high. AFAIK, there's no way around this. A second problem with central a/c is that it's usually within a forced warm air system designed for heating. Both vents and returns are usually at floor level. In a one floor house this isn't much of a problem, but if there are 2 floors the upstairs is still too warm when the downstairs is comfortable.
An entirely separate problem is that when "professionals" size units (central or window) they tend to look at square footage, heat producing items in the house, and little else. Things like shade producing trees and evening cool-off when humidity stays 85+% tend to be ignored. The result is often over cooling and under dehumidifying.
What works best? In my experience multiple, small units are the best option. A 5,000 btu unit in each occupied bedroom plus 1 or 2 (depending on floor plan) on the main floor. When the temps and humidity start to rise, turn on the bedroom units one-by-one and then the main floor if needed. Stuck with several old 12,000 btu units? Use a fan or 2 to blow the air toward where cooling is needed. You'd be amazed at what that can do. Once the sun has gone behind the trees, turn off the units in reverse order. The humidity in the house is still low from having had all the units running, but you're no longer spinning the meter for unneeded cooling.
This works with window units, split systems, and those free-standing portable venting models.
As an aside, I know people who have forced warm-air systems who have (either professionally or themselves) installed a switch that allows the fan and electronic air filter to run independently of the heating system. This allows the house to be comfortable with even fewer btu's running.
The main point of all of this is that one can be cool and dry using far fewer cooling btu's than most "professionals" would tell you is needed. This results in a much lower electric bill.
Of course, a major problem with this plan is that many people don't understand that throwing the windows open just because the sun has gone down un-does all the cooling and (more importantly) dehumidifying of the day. Then they want to know why their house is so uncomfortable the next day....
Again, many people don't understand that the compressor has to actually be running (as opposed to simply having controls in the 'on' position) in order to dehumidify...
I don't understand this so-called power saving gimmick of the fan turning off when the compressor turns off. First, the fan consumes a small fraction (like 5%?) of the total electricity used by any a/c unit. Second, moving air itself gives a cooling effect through increased evaporation so if the fan turns off making the air stagnant, one becomes warm at a lower temp than if the air were moving. I believe these are both laws of physics. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for window units being noisy. I agree 100% with a major caveat. In my experience most of the noise is produced by the unit rattling and NOT by the compressor or the fans themselves. I often use thin foam weatherstripping under the unit anywhere it touches the window. I've wedged matchbook covers into cracks around the expandable curtain. I've found tricks like this cut noise a good deal.
There's more I could add, but I think I've gone on long enough for now.
Jim
I've lived 80% of my life along the Interstate 95 corridor somewhere in or between the Boston and NYC metro areas. Therefore my a/c experiences reflect that climate.
The main issue is humidity. I assume proximity to the ocean plays a role. Literally every single person I know who has a house also has a dehumidifier in the basement. High 70's/low 80's temps are often very uncomfortable because the humidity is so high. If one has several window a/c units, one can close up the house and run just one or 2 units. That is often enough to keep the indoor humidity down to a comfortable level.
If one has properly sized central a/c, the unit turns off because the target temp has been reached but the humidity is still uncomfortably high. AFAIK, there's no way around this. A second problem with central a/c is that it's usually within a forced warm air system designed for heating. Both vents and returns are usually at floor level. In a one floor house this isn't much of a problem, but if there are 2 floors the upstairs is still too warm when the downstairs is comfortable.
An entirely separate problem is that when "professionals" size units (central or window) they tend to look at square footage, heat producing items in the house, and little else. Things like shade producing trees and evening cool-off when humidity stays 85+% tend to be ignored. The result is often over cooling and under dehumidifying.
What works best? In my experience multiple, small units are the best option. A 5,000 btu unit in each occupied bedroom plus 1 or 2 (depending on floor plan) on the main floor. When the temps and humidity start to rise, turn on the bedroom units one-by-one and then the main floor if needed. Stuck with several old 12,000 btu units? Use a fan or 2 to blow the air toward where cooling is needed. You'd be amazed at what that can do. Once the sun has gone behind the trees, turn off the units in reverse order. The humidity in the house is still low from having had all the units running, but you're no longer spinning the meter for unneeded cooling.
This works with window units, split systems, and those free-standing portable venting models.
As an aside, I know people who have forced warm-air systems who have (either professionally or themselves) installed a switch that allows the fan and electronic air filter to run independently of the heating system. This allows the house to be comfortable with even fewer btu's running.
The main point of all of this is that one can be cool and dry using far fewer cooling btu's than most "professionals" would tell you is needed. This results in a much lower electric bill.
Of course, a major problem with this plan is that many people don't understand that throwing the windows open just because the sun has gone down un-does all the cooling and (more importantly) dehumidifying of the day. Then they want to know why their house is so uncomfortable the next day....
Again, many people don't understand that the compressor has to actually be running (as opposed to simply having controls in the 'on' position) in order to dehumidify...
I don't understand this so-called power saving gimmick of the fan turning off when the compressor turns off. First, the fan consumes a small fraction (like 5%?) of the total electricity used by any a/c unit. Second, moving air itself gives a cooling effect through increased evaporation so if the fan turns off making the air stagnant, one becomes warm at a lower temp than if the air were moving. I believe these are both laws of physics. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
As for window units being noisy. I agree 100% with a major caveat. In my experience most of the noise is produced by the unit rattling and NOT by the compressor or the fans themselves. I often use thin foam weatherstripping under the unit anywhere it touches the window. I've wedged matchbook covers into cracks around the expandable curtain. I've found tricks like this cut noise a good deal.
There's more I could add, but I think I've gone on long enough for now.
Jim
Fan off with compressor off
I find this prevents the unit from blowing sweated humidity back into the air once the evaporator stops being cold, and would otherwise release whatever moisture is trapped on it. It's not a big deal, but I notice the difference.
I find this prevents the unit from blowing sweated humidity back into the air once the evaporator stops being cold, and would otherwise release whatever moisture is trapped on it. It's not a big deal, but I notice the difference.
launderess
Well-known member
Thank You Roto204!
That is one thing we love about the new electronic controlled Friedrich Wallmaster. With the "Money Saver" option yes the fan is cycled with the compressor which makes a world of difference.
Generally have a powerful separate fan going anyway to help circulate air in order to keep the AC on a higher setting, so don't miss having the unit move air as "fan only" when the compressor is off. You also don't get that stale musty indoor air smell from blowing air though the unit.
That is one thing we love about the new electronic controlled Friedrich Wallmaster. With the "Money Saver" option yes the fan is cycled with the compressor which makes a world of difference.
Generally have a powerful separate fan going anyway to help circulate air in order to keep the AC on a higher setting, so don't miss having the unit move air as "fan only" when the compressor is off. You also don't get that stale musty indoor air smell from blowing air though the unit.
styrofoam
"One good thing about every styrofoam packed A/C I've used is they don't vibrate!"
They may not vibrate but they have a squeakiness to them. Have you ever had one of those cheap styrofoam coolers in a car while driving and listening to it squeak against itself with every bump and twist of the road? I had a Frigidaire window AC once with all that styrofoam inside it and it squeaked the same way all the time. I'd hit it and it would switch to the opposite side. It's gone now, my ex took it with him 15 years ago...(good riddance to both haha).
My el-cheapo Goldstar has been serving my daytime sleep room well for 15 years and still going strong.
"One good thing about every styrofoam packed A/C I've used is they don't vibrate!"
They may not vibrate but they have a squeakiness to them. Have you ever had one of those cheap styrofoam coolers in a car while driving and listening to it squeak against itself with every bump and twist of the road? I had a Frigidaire window AC once with all that styrofoam inside it and it squeaked the same way all the time. I'd hit it and it would switch to the opposite side. It's gone now, my ex took it with him 15 years ago...(good riddance to both haha).
My el-cheapo Goldstar has been serving my daytime sleep room well for 15 years and still going strong.
toploader55
Well-known member
Great News !!!
The Landlord just showed up and announced we are installing a Split System !!!
No More Window Shakers. I can't wait. Although we have not needed A/C on the Cape yet, this is wonderful News !!!
I believe it's going to be Mitsubishi.
The Landlord just showed up and announced we are installing a Split System !!!
No More Window Shakers. I can't wait. Although we have not needed A/C on the Cape yet, this is wonderful News !!!
I believe it's going to be Mitsubishi.
I *Greatly* Prefer "Auto-Off" Fan Modes
Thank-fully, the newer Honeywell stat. in use on the (monstrous) 5 ton A/C unit on our 1200sq/ft house supports the Auto-fan mode, as did the original thermostat.
It is rated at 8 SEER.
Yes, it would be hideously oversized for most weather. But it rans *flat out* once we get to about 113º, which is *very regularly* here in Summer! Thats even at a setpoint of 80º. It wouldn't be so bad if the system was run 24/7, and the core temperature of the bricks inside the house (interior walls, furniture etc) was reduced, but given that it runs somewhere between 12 to 18 hrs a day, it never fully removes that heat, and thus thats why that works like that.
Auto fan is particularly effective during the later Summer when evening temperatures are still in the high 70s/low 80s with humidity around 60-90%.
The house, even when the system runs at 80º setpoint, remains around 40% humidity with the fan in "auto."
If it is left running, particularly overnight when the system only runs once or twice an hour, the humidity gets up to about 60-70%. Not fun or comfortable. Although it makes the compressor cycles of the packaged unit a lot less noticeable with the fan (howling) most of the time.*
* I actually think the fan on our system runs way too fast; given my experience with systems at other houses
In the lounge/kitchen, it can be favorable to have the extra airflow when cooking on hot days/evenings. In this case, its usually so nuclear outside that the fan can be left to "On" without any compromise in comfort, as the unit is running pretty hard anyway. It also moves some of the cooler air from the back of the house to where the cooling is needed.
To be honest, I would NEVER want anything but central air, even if I was all by myself.
If you are moving between different rooms of the house, I'm not interested in turning one system off, and starting another and forcing it to cool off the space for the hour or so I'm in there before moving again.
Central air always provides a draft-less cooling, whereas mini-splits and "window-shakers" tend to be a lot more in-your-face, and often don't have the "auto fan" feature that cycles the fan off to reduce humidity blowback... Unfortunately, most of the modern ducted systems here in Australia don't have an auto fan option, which is really not that great...
Thank-fully, the newer Honeywell stat. in use on the (monstrous) 5 ton A/C unit on our 1200sq/ft house supports the Auto-fan mode, as did the original thermostat.
It is rated at 8 SEER.
Yes, it would be hideously oversized for most weather. But it rans *flat out* once we get to about 113º, which is *very regularly* here in Summer! Thats even at a setpoint of 80º. It wouldn't be so bad if the system was run 24/7, and the core temperature of the bricks inside the house (interior walls, furniture etc) was reduced, but given that it runs somewhere between 12 to 18 hrs a day, it never fully removes that heat, and thus thats why that works like that.
Auto fan is particularly effective during the later Summer when evening temperatures are still in the high 70s/low 80s with humidity around 60-90%.
The house, even when the system runs at 80º setpoint, remains around 40% humidity with the fan in "auto."
If it is left running, particularly overnight when the system only runs once or twice an hour, the humidity gets up to about 60-70%. Not fun or comfortable. Although it makes the compressor cycles of the packaged unit a lot less noticeable with the fan (howling) most of the time.*
* I actually think the fan on our system runs way too fast; given my experience with systems at other houses
In the lounge/kitchen, it can be favorable to have the extra airflow when cooking on hot days/evenings. In this case, its usually so nuclear outside that the fan can be left to "On" without any compromise in comfort, as the unit is running pretty hard anyway. It also moves some of the cooler air from the back of the house to where the cooling is needed.
To be honest, I would NEVER want anything but central air, even if I was all by myself.
If you are moving between different rooms of the house, I'm not interested in turning one system off, and starting another and forcing it to cool off the space for the hour or so I'm in there before moving again.
Central air always provides a draft-less cooling, whereas mini-splits and "window-shakers" tend to be a lot more in-your-face, and often don't have the "auto fan" feature that cycles the fan off to reduce humidity blowback... Unfortunately, most of the modern ducted systems here in Australia don't have an auto fan option, which is really not that great...
washerboy
Well-known member
For what it's worth
..I use a 25k btu in the front of the house and a small unit in the bedroom. I think the big boy is a Frid and the small one is a GE. I replaced both in 2010. The big unit just quit after only 8 years of service. I called several repair companies and was finially told. "you probably only need a 10.00 part, but I'll have to send 2 guys out to pull the unit and by the time you pay the labor and part you'll be better off just getting a new unit" he went on to say "just put the damn thing in a dumpster". So replace I did and to be honest both are 5 star energy rated and the amonunt of money I've saved on utility bills they have both paid for themselve several times over. I'm happy with the window units, no one has ever complained about being hot. The small bedroom unit was replaced because it started to sound like DFW in the bedroom..not sure why but it got to be so loud..however it worked just time. I put it on the street corner with a sign that said "works"...it lasted all of 15 minutes on the curb...so I assume it went to a good home.
..I use a 25k btu in the front of the house and a small unit in the bedroom. I think the big boy is a Frid and the small one is a GE. I replaced both in 2010. The big unit just quit after only 8 years of service. I called several repair companies and was finially told. "you probably only need a 10.00 part, but I'll have to send 2 guys out to pull the unit and by the time you pay the labor and part you'll be better off just getting a new unit" he went on to say "just put the damn thing in a dumpster". So replace I did and to be honest both are 5 star energy rated and the amonunt of money I've saved on utility bills they have both paid for themselve several times over. I'm happy with the window units, no one has ever complained about being hot. The small bedroom unit was replaced because it started to sound like DFW in the bedroom..not sure why but it got to be so loud..however it worked just time. I put it on the street corner with a sign that said "works"...it lasted all of 15 minutes on the curb...so I assume it went to a good home.
most people size units somewhat incorrectly.....something like a 5000btu would work for a bedroom, in most cases.....
I believe in a bit of overkill when it comes to A/C.....maintaining a set comfortable temp is one thing, but starting one up in a massively heated room, will take time to cool down, same goes if the doors are constantly opening and closing, baking/cooking in the kitchen, drying clothes.....all have drastic effects on your cooling comfort.....and I want an available BOOST if needed..
AUTO works great, maybe not for all, but in my case, once you start the system up, and leave it on manual until, not just the room, but all the furniture and walls are cool, then switch to AUTO to maintain said temps....once the set temp is reached, my unit may only runs about once an hour, for a 10 minute compressor run, and then shuts off.....I see no reason to run a fan for 24/7 if it is not needed....
some auto units will cycle the fan just to 'sample' the air temp.....and decide if the compressor needs to engage.....not all do this...
true the fan may only take a small bit of energy.....but for some of us, saving where we can means everything, even if a small amount......
I believe in a bit of overkill when it comes to A/C.....maintaining a set comfortable temp is one thing, but starting one up in a massively heated room, will take time to cool down, same goes if the doors are constantly opening and closing, baking/cooking in the kitchen, drying clothes.....all have drastic effects on your cooling comfort.....and I want an available BOOST if needed..
AUTO works great, maybe not for all, but in my case, once you start the system up, and leave it on manual until, not just the room, but all the furniture and walls are cool, then switch to AUTO to maintain said temps....once the set temp is reached, my unit may only runs about once an hour, for a 10 minute compressor run, and then shuts off.....I see no reason to run a fan for 24/7 if it is not needed....
some auto units will cycle the fan just to 'sample' the air temp.....and decide if the compressor needs to engage.....not all do this...
true the fan may only take a small bit of energy.....but for some of us, saving where we can means everything, even if a small amount......
whirlcool
Well-known member
All we've ever had in the past 40 years has been central air. I couldn't imagine going back to window units again.
While we are talking about air conditioning, I don't know how people in the southern region of the U.S.got along without it! It gets very hot and sticky here in the summer. I remember back in 83' after Hurricane Alicia came through we didn't have any power for two weeks. That meant no a/c. And it was very hot outside too! Sleeping was totally miserable. What did people do back before a/c for homes was available?
One thing I heard is that people left the lights on and the doors open in their closets so their clothing wouldn't mildew on the hangars in the summer.
While we are talking about air conditioning, I don't know how people in the southern region of the U.S.got along without it! It gets very hot and sticky here in the summer. I remember back in 83' after Hurricane Alicia came through we didn't have any power for two weeks. That meant no a/c. And it was very hot outside too! Sleeping was totally miserable. What did people do back before a/c for homes was available?
One thing I heard is that people left the lights on and the doors open in their closets so their clothing wouldn't mildew on the hangars in the summer.
I grew up with window units, which we had from 1964 until the next house in 1980. They certainly got the job done, and spoiled me for ambient 'white noise' while sleeping. They can be reasonably economical to run if used reasonably, as in hold back from maximum thermostat position meat-locker temperatures, run a high enough fan speed to get the job done, and keep the filter and unit maintained. Not unusual that I'd run across friends/family/neighbors who set their units at the coldest temp, with the lowest fan speed "so it doesn't cost so much to run." As if. I'd advise them to speed up the fan so the unit can cool down the area and cycle off. "Oh no, it'd get too cold!" Duhhh, adjust the thermostat, that's what it's for!
Regards to people back in the day who didn't have air conditioning, it was just plain hot in their homes, or cars. Us kids were miserable when we went visiting with Mom to family friends who didn't have it (or had it but wouldn't run it). We typically played outside but there was no coming in the house to cool off. The grandmother didn't have air conditioning until approx 1972 (window units). Very uncomfortable compared to home but we still went to granny's for weekend stays, and survived with fans and breeze from open windows and screen doors.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I remember in our house we always had window units until about 1967 when my parents upgraded to central air. They were thinking that the central air was going to be cheaper to run than the three thru the wall units we had. Nope, their electric bill went up about $35. per month.
philr
Well-known member
What did people do back before a/c for homes was available?
Allen,
I think A/C is partially responsible of the shift of population (and jobs) from the northern states to the southern states. Before people had the possibility to cool and dehumidify their hot environment, it was much easier to deal with the cold, by dressing more, heating our houses (and cars!). The advent of cheap air conditioning allowed to deal much better with the climate in the southern states all year round than it was possible before.
Now, it seems easier (and cheaper) to remove the excess heat and humidity in the southern states than heating up north and dealing with the cold and the snow... And with the modern infrastructures that are required now (roads and bridges, power distribution etc.), the snow removal and damage caused by icing conditions and de-icing agents are really a big motivation to move people (and factories) down south.
To me, that partially explains the high number of abandoned houses in NY State near the Canadian border and all the factories that close around here to move their production in the southern states or Mexico. Why would corporations pay more in heating and maintenance of their large factories up north, pay their employees more so they could use that extra money to heat their homes and for the repair and fast replacement of their rust-eaten cars? Also why would they pay more taxes so the government could maintain the roads and bridges in shape? The free trade agreements also did away with another incentive to keep production up here!
Unfortunately for us Canadians, it's not easy to move much further south than we already are (most of the population already lives in the southern part of the country!), otherwise, I would probably try to do it!
http://www.economist.com/news/inter...ces-bearablebut-worryingly-high-cost-no-sweat
Allen,
I think A/C is partially responsible of the shift of population (and jobs) from the northern states to the southern states. Before people had the possibility to cool and dehumidify their hot environment, it was much easier to deal with the cold, by dressing more, heating our houses (and cars!). The advent of cheap air conditioning allowed to deal much better with the climate in the southern states all year round than it was possible before.
Now, it seems easier (and cheaper) to remove the excess heat and humidity in the southern states than heating up north and dealing with the cold and the snow... And with the modern infrastructures that are required now (roads and bridges, power distribution etc.), the snow removal and damage caused by icing conditions and de-icing agents are really a big motivation to move people (and factories) down south.
To me, that partially explains the high number of abandoned houses in NY State near the Canadian border and all the factories that close around here to move their production in the southern states or Mexico. Why would corporations pay more in heating and maintenance of their large factories up north, pay their employees more so they could use that extra money to heat their homes and for the repair and fast replacement of their rust-eaten cars? Also why would they pay more taxes so the government could maintain the roads and bridges in shape? The free trade agreements also did away with another incentive to keep production up here!
Unfortunately for us Canadians, it's not easy to move much further south than we already are (most of the population already lives in the southern part of the country!), otherwise, I would probably try to do it!
http://www.economist.com/news/inter...ces-bearablebut-worryingly-high-cost-no-sweat
Split HVAC units-seems like the gov't LOVES these-easy to install in older or new buildings.There are several here at the transmitter plant.And MANY in DC plant.
The Mitshibishi units can heat as well as cool.Ours at the site do this.You set the temp-and the unit maintains that temp really well-by acting as an AC or heatpump.On the ones at our site-the compressor and condensor fan are on some sort of VFD.
mieleforever
Well-known member
@toploader55,
Please let us have an update after the instalation and tell us how you like the new split unit.
Cheers
Please let us have an update after the instalation and tell us how you like the new split unit.
Cheers
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