Wisk, Tide top new Consumer Reports detergent ratings

[launderess]

Powdered Laundry Detergent? What's That?

One would have to look long and hard in most NYC, or at least Manhattan shops to find powdered laundry detergent. Nothing but rows and shelves full of liquids with perhaps a few boxes of Tide, Cheer or Dreft scattered about. Even K-Sears at Astor Place has mainly shifted over to liquid detergents.

The only shop one knows that still has any decent selection of powdered detergents is the Key Food up in the East 90's. Well at least last time one was there last summer. Will have to take a peep again soon.

 

[launderess]

And Another Thing

Far as liquid versus powder debate goes P&G seems to have saved most of it's major advances for the former, leaving the latter as the red headed step-child.

All Tide liquid laundry detergents contain far superiour enzyme complexes than the powdered versions. IIRC the latter only has one (protease) while liquids have several more besides.

In terms of cleaning am that well pleased with both Tide "Free and Clear" and Tide Cold Water of the same.

 

[supersuds]

The Tide powders have both protease and cellulase (these are also in Total Care Liquid). Interestingly, sodium percarbonate is listed in both the regular and "with bleach" formularies. The main difference seems to be that the "bleach" version has "B62 agglomerate" as a bleach activator -- so maybe it works in cooler water? Still, I bet a lot of people add oxygen bleach additives without knowing its already in there!

The enzymes in Liquid Tide are amylase, mannanase, pectinase, and protease.

You might think that the more enzymes a detergent has the better it would be, but at least according to CR, the Ultra Tide HE powder outcleans everything but the HE Plus Bleach liquid. Perhaps the percarbonate is responsible.

I've tried switching between Ultra Tide top loading powder and liquid and can't see much difference; if anything, the powder does better on the kind of stains I have problems with. If if were spilling fruits/jams or salad dressing on my shirts I suppose the liquid would have an advantage based on the enzyme package.

 

[gorenje]

@ Supersuds

Hi, I think you are right. Sodium percarbonate is very effective, but it needs higher temperature to do its job. It whitens and it removes stains and in addition with enzymes it does even a better job on removing stains.

Liquid is better for greasy dirt but it has to have enzymes to be good also on removing organic stains.

Here is a composition of an Italian detergent:

less than 5% -

non-ionic surfactants
anionic surfactants
soap, polycarboxylates, sodium silicate,
XXX (I'm not able to translate)
phosphonate (less than 0,5%)

between 5 and 15% - oxygen-based bleaching agents (sodium perborate)

between 15 and 30% - zeolite, sodium carbonate

more than 30% - sodium sulphate

other components - enzymes (usually protease & amilase), optical brighteners, antifoam agents, dyes, perfumes

Tis is a quite typical composition of one of our detergent, but on some others the percentage can slightly vary.

Ingemar

 

[launderess]

Sodium Percarbonate Is Also Known As The "Cold Water&#34

As it works in warm, cool and even cold water though contact time may have to be increased with temps >100F to remove certain stains.

OTOH sodium perborate requires temperatures at or >120F to really get going, with 140F to 180F the sweet spot. This is why European/UK laundry was often done at boil wash temperatures. Ever since Persil (silicate and perborate) housewives and anyone else doing the wash needed those high temperatures to activate the whitening and stain removal power of perborates.

To counter the high temperature requirement bleach activators were invented (TAED and NOBS)which allowed perborate bleaches to sanitise,destain and whiten starting more at 100F and topping off at about 150F.

Because percarbonate will bleach in warm to cold water detergents containing the stuff such as Persil were advised not for use on colours or darks as there was a good chance of color loss.

Perborate bleaches OTHO were and still are advertised as "colour safe" bleaches because absent activators (and even with them) their power is less in warm to cold water, the exact temps recommended for laundering such items.

Perborates have been put on the EU's chemical hit list as borates have been found to build up in aquatic soils and such. Indeed on both sides of the pond percarbonate bleaching systems have replaced perborates. Also perborates are harder to rinse out of fabrics than percarbonates. Finally sodium percarbonate supplies it's own alkaline conditions in solution for proper function. Sodium perborate often must be combined with a base substance (such as washing soda).

P&G has several patents on activated bleaches systems built upon perborates, but all the latest crop of detergents and laundry additives "with bleach" now contain percarbonate.

 

[gorenje]

Launderess thank you very much for all the explanations

So sodium perborate is the one that requires higher temperature.

 

[pierreandreply4]

me in my case i will always use liquid detergents as i find that liquid detergents clean much better than any powder type detergent and for anyone that use powder detergent what would you do if detergent companys decided literaly to stop making powder type detergents to only focus on making and selling liquid detergents because you need to takin into consideration that newer washers in the near future might only take liquid detergent? Or detetergent tablettes the detergent in the picture for anyone info is the brand i use most of the time

 

[Jsneaker]

Purex with Zout Liquid Mrcleanjeans reply #1

Hi David,

I bought a bottle of the new Purex with Zout liquid at "Tarzhay". It was on sale for 4.99 and I had a 1.00-off coupon, so I couldn't resist. I find it doesn't clean white laundry so well even in hot water, in my Samsung WA448AAW. Stain removal is not up to my standards. I don't like using optical brighteners on colors, so I don't use this. I still prefer powders-Miele Ultra Color(for colors), Seventh Generation Natural(both with NO optical brighteners), and Legacy of Clean(Amway) SA8 with Bioquest for whites and lights.

Jason

 

[Jsneaker]

Reply #22 by gorenje

Ingemar,

The one ingredient "tetraacetildiammina..." is TAED, it is a mineral-harnessing(chelating) compound which keeps the hard water minerals in solution away from laundry. The "carboxymetylcellulosi..." is Carboxymethylcellulose-this is a soil-suspender used in many kinds and types of detergents. It keeps the dirt removed off the clothes and suspended in the washwater until drain. I hope this helps you!

Jason

 

[launderess]

Tetraacetylethylenediamine (aka TAED)

Is an activator for oxygen(perborate or percarbonate) based bleaching systems.

"Hydrogen peroxide and water react with tetraacetylethylenediamine (TAED) to form consecutively triacetylethylenediamine and diacetylethylenediamine with the release of two molecules of peracetic acid or acetic acid. The effect of pH, specific buffers and temperature on the rates of hydrolysis and perhydrolysis are compared. Peracetic acid reacts with TAED very slowly. The ratio of the second-order rate constants for the reaction of TAED with hydroperoxide and peracetate anions is exceptionally large after taking into account the difference in pKa values of their conjugate acids. The relative reactivity of various nucleophiles with TAED is discussed in terms of its performance as a bleach activator."

Tetraacetylethylenediamine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jsneaker]

Laundress' Reply to me...

Hi "Big Apple"!

Je parle francais aussi! I stand corrected by your explanation of the way EDTA works, and appreciate it. I am by no means a chemist, but pride myself on years of experience with laundry detergents. I have to wonder why, then, do many soap bars contain the EDTA, when there is never peroxide/bleach to deal with? I also wonder why detergent manufacturers don't tell us it's EDTA that is a "bleach activator" in their detergents? It is apparently actual and factual, that sadly the majority of US detergent manufacturers try to be "politically correct" by listing whatever pitifully a short list of ingredients both in English & Spanish! This bugs me to no end! If everything were as it used to be, they might just have the space to list most of the ingredients.

Jason, near the "Big Apple"

 

[angus]

Last week, I finally found the new Gain "Ocean Escape" powder at Family Dollar (30 load size for $6.00 - no big bargain there). I had wanted to try it since it was advertised as their lightest scent. Used it on a few loads and while the scent is certainly the least heavy of the Gain offerings, it still left way too much scent in the finished laundry. Also, even though the scent was fairly pleasant in the box, even with a second rinse and line drying the scent left on the clothes turned into something like cheap perfume. I guess any of these Gain products with "fresh lock" guaranteeing that the scent will stay in the clothes for weeks is just too strong for me. Finally, even using less than the recommended amounts in the Speed Queen TL produced way too many suds for me.

Interestingly, since I have been unable to fine Tide w/Bleach powder HE lately, I bought a box of regular Tide HE powder. That too left a very strong fragrance behind and it smells nothing like vintage Tide to me. Of course my idea of vintage Tide is 50's through very early 70's. So now we continue the hunt for Tide w/Bleach HE.

Finally, I broke into my stash of Cheer HE powder. Very pleasantly surprised with the performance and the light fragrance left behind. Wonderful on line dried bed linens. I have to be careful though. I was only able to get 10 boxes of the 120 load size at Sam's club. But I was able to get it at half price as it was being cleared out so only paid $8.00 per box. Oh, well...

 

[Jsneaker]

Angus, Mixfinder and Powerfin64

If anyone has ever read the ingredients of Tide HE powder, it has contained sodium perborate or percarbonate bleach since it came out! Although the bleach is probably in a small quantity, there's no wonder that they are not making/stocking Tide HE with Bleach powder any longer. Also, adding STPP to regular detergents makes them work better, but you cannot use it alone as a detergent replacement. Also, since when does P&G make Cheer HE POWDER??? I have never seen it in any store anywhere, nor on the Cheer website. I have spoken with P&G to make HE Cheer powder!

 

[Jsneaker]

Dirtybuck & Bosch2460

Bill, I got one of those trial bottles of Wisk HE at my local Shop Rite for .99 and tried it. Joel, I agree Wisk stinks to high heavens! I cannot use it on any of my brother's laundry as he breaks out in rash also! I will finish it up and not buy it again. I sorely miss the Wisk Power Scoop powder, I used to use that a lot! Right now the Seventh Generation Powder and my Miele Ultra Color Powder are TOPS! Bill, I have to ask-do you wear dirty buck suede shoes?

 

[frigilux]

My two 50-wash boxes of Persil Bio (UK) arrived on Monday. I had them delivered to work, and one of the secretaries signed for the box, then noticed the invoice attached was for "washing powder." Explaining why one chooses to order laundry detergent from England (Brit Superstore online) to the secretaries proved interesting. I doubt any other male in their orbit has ever uttered the words "profile wash" LOL!

Shipping was about $25 more than the actual cost of the detergent, but I love the stuff. I received an order of three boxes in August of 2010 (when I bought my new Frigidaire laundry pair), and I just opened the third box a couple of weeks ago. As I've said before, I only use it for loads of whites with the Sanitize cycle, which basically provides a profile wash. What I really love about Persil powder is that it rinses out so well, even in my super-soft water.

If Tide would produce a low-sudsing, clean-rinsing detergent, I'd never "order out" again. But P&G doesn't seem interested in such a venture.

Obligatory photos:

 

[frigilux]

Back of box: (Apologies for the 3rd martini blur, but I'm too tired to do retakes)

 

[frigilux]

More info:

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I recently got on ebay a lot of vending size powders and liquids, there was wisk old style liquid, surf powder (older lable), and All powder that I have not used yet...... I used 2 packages per load of surf and wisk, and they did not clean at all both wisk and surf, they were sealed and not expired or too old,....but wisk was like it lost it's scent...it was not so old though...... it was almost like scentless, with a little chemical odor..... maybe the boxes were defected the factory forgot to add perfume.....who knows?
Anyway always about scents.....
Tried the new Tide powder and looks it works fine. I don't like it's new scent though, it is like bubble gum or fruity stuff, I will get back to use Gain, Arm&hammer and Sun powders.
Sun is a very good detergent! And a box of 5 cups cost just 1 buck! I've tried many liquids: Tide, All , Wisk etc, and they does not work for me at all!

 

[kenmoreguy89]

I always wished to try fresh start powder......does anyone tried it? How is it? I cannot find it anywhere.........

 

[bosch2460]

Hey Frigilux....

How much Persil do you use per load? I have used it before, but it has been a while. Do you just get the 50 loads out of each box?

-Joel