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I cannot speak for the Smart anywhere except on Colorado Roa

...but found that their insistence on premium fuel meant that they were significantly more expensive to operate here.

Really when it comes to cars it is personal preference. I could certainly see on Euro roads where they might be very handy.

As for the fuel stats on the Yaris, I have no explanation for why I get consistently >40mpg EXCEPT:

1. The Yaris are all rated the same - coupe or four door.
2. The Yaris are all rated the same - manual or automatic transmission.
3. The fuel stats were recently changed to reflect lots of stop and go driving and who knows what else.

I cannot speak for how they are rated as far as individual comfort, but from what my research indicated before I purchased it, it rated 4 or 5 stars out of 5 in all categories.

Your mileage may vary, literally, but this is my experience. As a commuter car, I can find no fault in it.
 
Its not a bad car.. But i think the Versa is better..

Thats neat about the smart... If they had a diesel smart here and it had a decent transmisson i'd consider one...
 
Yes!

Diesel would be the key to really good mileage and longevity.

Rather like...heck what's the ford car built in UK that gets >50 mpg (diesel) (though this may be imperial gallons) but no American would buy it because it would be ~28000 for a small car?

We have the idea in USA that bigger is always better. While bigger can be better, mostly it is just bigger, and sometimes your situation means that smaller is better. (I'd hate to put a Wolf dual oven stove in a NYC small apartment, while a Miele 27" oven and hob would be awesome)
 
True..

My malibu is ideal for me.. I have a 20 mile commute each day in mixed traffic... and travel back and forth alot to palm springs and down that way....

BTW why would one need a hugs stove like a wolf???

The 40" stoves i kinda understand... For there day...

One doesnt need bigger.. IE: a 4'8" women with 3 kids and a husband DOES NOT NEED A DAMN CHEVY SUBURBAN
A 3-seat Traverse or Tahoe maybe... What happend to kids sitting in a seat side by side??? And why does one need a "school bus" on wheels for there two kids...
 
I've long held...

...the opinon that vehicles should be taxed (for annual registration) according to some combination of factors such as their:

- weight
- road space utilised
- engine capacity
- fuel efficiency/inefficiency
- carbon emmissions

The 'average' family car/wagon/estate such as camry/accord, would be a little dearer to register, but smaller cars such as corolla/focus, would be cheaper whilst behemmoths along the lines of suburbans would be much more expensive....

To be honest, my personal feelings are that, unless you have a huge boat, fifth-wheel or caravan, there is no reason to actually NEED a car the size of a Toyota Landcruiser, suburban etc....and if you want one, you can pay the appropriate registration taxes to keep it....

GM/Ford and Chrysler wouldn't have been in the predictament they are/were in if they hadn't encouraged the acceptance of these cars in the first place....
 
You know...

...when gas started getting expensive (going toward $2/gallon) in 1999 (ten years ago now!) I still remember the CEO of GM saying when asked if his company would build small cars, "It doesn't make business sense."

I make EVERY EFFORT to buy US manufactured items when I can find them. In this instance, when I bought the Yaris, the CLOSEST thing I could find was a Ford (Focus? I think) and it got <30 mpg. Since my truck (which I use primarily as my camper transport vehicle) got 15 mpg it didn't seem to make sense to buy something that got less than double that mileage.

I certainly don't have an issue with folks buying what they want or need, but I really think that 'need' has become overused. The point made about the bus used to transport 2 kids is a good one. Growing up we had a car - a small one after the 1974 oil embargo. Mom and 3 kids fit in it okay.

So much when it comes to most things is so dictated by advertising that we don't even realize that our WANTS are really put into us by others. Kind of sad actually.

Now back to kitchen appliances. We all should buy what works for us. But I also read 'The Garden Web' (gardenweb.com) on the kitchen redo forum. My GOD I could RETIRE on what some people put into their kitchens! 100K? It's a KITCHEN. I'm looking at new cabinets and some minor remodel in mine and wondering "Is 15K too much?"

Is it too expensive to buy a 10,000 dollar stove just so you can do a HUGE turkey at thanksgiving? Obviously people's means factor in here - if you're a multimillionaire, perhaps not. I, personally, would rather buy an 18 quart Nesco for <100 dollars and keep it on a shelf, but that's just me.
I do wonder though if some of our issues in the USA (and to a larger extent throughout the developed world) don't come in when we confuse our TRUE wants and needs with a competition to 'keep up with others' fueled by advertising and god knows what else.
 
Wants and Needs

...are very different things and people often get confused by them.

I need a car to do various things. Get to work, shopping, go on holiday with, transport dogs....

I want a car that is luxurious, spacious, economical, safe.

The key is getting the correct balance for your own circumstances.

I could afford to have spend AUD$40000 on a car, but the Viva/Forenza at $22500 does all the things I need more or less well enough that 95% of the time I don't feel short changed.

Hunter, you are very right about the whole stove/turkey scenario and the same applies to cars.

Do you buy a HUGE car that can cope with the 2 week holiday away and costs you a fortune to run with low milage all year OR, do you buy a car that suits your needs for 95% of the year and gets 50% better economy BUT also buy a small trailer with the change to put the balance of that holiday luggage in and use it for gardening etc. during the year?

My sister and her husband (the Neanderthal) are looking to replace their 1992 3.6ltr Holden Commodore wagon....they go away quite often but only use the capacity of the car about once a year. Every other time, there is storage to spare. They could, theoretically, go down 2 sizes to a Focus sedan and save money....but it is unlikely they will...
 
Truck and subcompact

I own a truck, which I think I mentioned. 5.4 litre V8 engine. I used to drive it as my only vehicle.

When gasoline went over $4 per gallon here I bought the Yaris as the payment+insurance+gas was equal to (more or less) the cost of gas.

The cost of gas is down to 2.30 per gallon US. Am I sorry I bought the Yaris?

NO! I put miles on the CHEAP car and save the expensive truck.

My car is my mode of transportation. it is not an extension of my personality. I considered getting rid of the truck, but it was paid off.
 
If you can afford to own both and run the most efficient one most of the time, then that is the most logical thing to do...

If a person can't afford to have both, then it makes more sense to have the car that suits their purposes most of the time but is cheaper to run than something that is more expensive to run, but they only need the full use of on 'occassion'...
 
I must admit I am one who buys cars for want, and not so much need.

I choose to have the biggest sedans that Detroit produces,I have not one but two of them. 95% of the time I am the only one in the car, and if there is anyone else never more than two people. I dont often haul things, but like that I can fit alot into my car if I need to. I drive 32 miles a day to work, and rarely take trips or go anywhere else.I am 6'5" and the interior room is about the only need for a big car I have, but I expect the power and a large showy exterior as well as a large interior. When gas was over $4 a gallon, it didnt bother me, I am ok paying more to keep what I want, I cant imagine having a car with less than a V-8 or GM's supercharged 3800 V-6. But that is my opinion, as is those who chose small cars.

As for my takes on the crapiest cars,
from my experience that would be:
2000-2006 base model Chevy Impala, never had a car that could spring so many antifreeze leaks and go through so many thermostats.
Any Cadillac with a 4.6l northstar, I had nothing but trouble from day one with the DeVille I had, I spent more on repairs than the cost of the car.
 
ronhic...

...I absolutely agree. Had the truck NOT been paid off, I'd have tried something else.

Not trying to encourage conspicuous consumption either !!
 
I agree with the Charger/Magnum/300

The whole needs and wants thing is very true..

Im glad to see a yaris works for some one..

Another part of it with me is i can't drive a small car... I had a toyota corolla and a nissan sentra.. Both of which i couldnt drive.. The nissan was far better of the two//But still..I ran over alot curbs, i backed into a bulding with the toyota once, i could never keep either car in a single lane.. it was just awful... The toyota corolla got 38 mpgs which i loved... But the 5-speed manual was awful to shift... My sentra got 28-29 and it was an automatic.. too it was the 2.5 SE-R edition... So it would FLY... But i couldnt drive the damn thing...

I guess it comes down to what your comfertable with.. I can handle a taurus/malibu/6/fusion better than a yaris/corrlla or fit/civic or versa/sentra
 
What fascinates me more than anything else

is how little the American car companies reward(ed) brand loyalty.

When I was a student driving back and forth to college somewhat more than 2 hours a day, seven days a week (slow learner? full-time student? full-time job? Yes, to all) my parents and relations gave me two Toyotas. Their argument was that the additonal cost was more than made up for by their reliability.

Which is absolutely true. The few times the Hi-Lux broke down, the Toyota dealer went to considerable lengths to find out why, how, when, etc. That data went back to Toyota.

As an adult who splits his time between Europe (our brilliant mass-transit obviates the need for daily driving and since rich people and the city mayor use it every day, it's not the low-rent horror it is in much of the US) and Colorado-Wyoming where I log several thousand miles a month, I drive American cars.

It seems important to support US jobs.

Had a talk with the Cadillac dealer in Fort Collins last year, shortly before my darlin' finally sold the Fleetwood Brougham d´Elegance...

I was complaining about the rotten quality, poor fit, rotten quality, high repair prices, rotten quality, etc. He sells GM, Caddilac and Subaru. He laid it out for me (helped, I had just brought in a friend who had just bought a new truck so he was feeling expansive). When he mentions problems to the Subaru district manager, she gets very concerned about their influence on customers' future buying decisions and passes them, in detail, on to the top.
When he mentions problems with Cadillac to the GM district sales manager, he buries them because GM shoots the messenger.

It's that simple.

I love my S-10. I really adore my '98 Malibu. I put more time and money into the Cadillac than she was worth...the day she came off the show floor...and my darlin' says he never put less than $5,000 dollars into repairs every year of her life.

For the record, both my Toyotas were killed by drunk drivers when they had over 175,000 miles on them. My Malibu has never run longer than 20,000 without needing at least $3,000 of work...and the S-10 averages $500 every summer for nickle and dime stuff which I didn't even know existed in the Toyotas...but which it can't live without.

Moral of the story? I will continue to buy American to support workers' jobs. But any American car is a piece of junk compared to the cheapest Japanese anything. If money ever gets so tight that I can't afford constant repairs, I'm going to have to give up this luxury and go back to reliable, good cars. Fiats, Renaults, that sort of thing.

(That was dark humor, no need to now tell me how god-awful they are.)
 
Panthera....

.....LOL@ FIAT....

FIAT = Fix It Again Tony....

...and Renaults used to be good...well in the bright days of the late 1960's and 1970's...

They really lost their way in the 80's and 90's, though smaller Renaults seem to be much better now.....

Still, I miss my Citroen Xantia...sold due to needing all it's maintenance at once and going to cost AUD$3000 to sort out....timing belt, brake discs front and 2 sets of pads, 260000 service, 4 michelins and the worst part was the heater core had gone...so included in that bill was approx $750 for that....

If those maintenance items had happened over 12months I would have just paid them....and she used to average 32mpg in town and up to 40mpg on the highway with the aircon on....

ronhic++10-10-2009-07-36-29.jpg
 
I would have had a shop do the timing belt and then done all the rest myself. Replacing disc brake pads and rotors is generally easy, and what with Chinese parts they are fairly cheap (I got new rotors and pads for my Neon than less than $100USD). And tires? That's a consumable item, not really maintenance.

Heater cores are generally not so hard to replace, either, although that would depend on the vehicle... could be a lot of tight spaces under the dash, etc. If you can hook up a washer you can replace a heater core :-)...
 
Let me tell you about my import experience.

In 2003 I bought a brand new Mazda 6 Type S custom ordered with every obtainable option. It had to be built and I had to wait 3 weeks to get it as no one within 100 miles had one with all the luxury features I wanted in it. It rang up with a $33,000 price tag.

Here are the things I have done to it in 6 years and 105,000 miles.

Airbag faulty (warranty covered)
Rough Shifting, required re-programming computer (warranty)
4 Recalls for separate issues, Gas Cap, Rear Defroster, Cooling Fans, Throttle Body.
Have been thru many, many sets of brakes more than any of my former GM cars.
Drive Axle replaced at 30,000 miles
Started knocking within 3,000 miles requiring another drive axle
Replaced both Drive Axles again at 80,000
One wheel cannot be run on the front because of a knocking sound it makes (no one can figure it out) Finish is starting to wear off wheels now.
Plastic caps in center of wheels break and have to be replaced, have to drive around looking ghetto while a I wait for dealer to order replacement.
Low profile tires (stock) don't ride as smoothly as I'd like and don't last as long as in my GM cars.
Blew a liquid filled engine mount, getting nasty shit all under the hood
Door lock assembly broke and would not let the door be opened from the inside or out, requiring a $750 repair
Headliner is starting to fall down, also looking ghetto, and I'm not sure how much that's going to cost to fix.
Paint has begun to peel on one of the side mirrors.
Overall it does not drive as smoothly anymore, it used to have a BMW feel to it.
All in all I'm pretty dis-satisfied with my first import car. The resale value on it has been horrible. It is my first Mazda, and will be my last. I'd considered Cadillac, or Lexus for the future as this car barely had enough luxury features to suit my tastes, you couldn't even get a power passenger seat in it. I want a smooth ride like my old Buick Park Avenue Ultra used to have, now that was a real machine, and the most reliable car I've ever had. I've heard alot about Cadillac lately that is not good, also they (like Lexus) offer mostly rear wheel drive vehicles, which I detest as I wouldn't dare be caught in a compromising situation in fowl weather, luckily all wheel drive is offered more now in place of front or rear drive.
 
Ron, that'd make me a Neanderthal as well as we have both cars on your hit list.

In Queensland, registration on an 8cyl car has gone up to just a smidge under $1K per year (Incl CTP). The 5yo Land cruiser is about to be replaced with a new TD one, which gets much better ecconomy and better emissions, however as it still has 8 cylinders, it cops the same rego costs as the Petrol. We camp twice a year and traverse the beach or bay islands 6 times a year. We've seen friends do it in a CRV, but they can never take as much camping gear with them, and usually end up with bits broken off.

I've got a 2007 falcon wagon, that I bought second hand at 18 months old for $19K and only 16K Km on the clock. It averages about 12L/100km around town driven carefully as low as 8L/100km on the highway, yet still accelerates comfortabley on the open road, and when I need to take the dog somewhere along with a boot full of picnic gear I can, and still 4 adults and a baby in the car. If need be I get three TL washers and a dishwasher in the back with the seats down. Its all horses for courses. I beleive things need to be more efficient, and compared to my old Falcon wagon, its about 3L/100km more so. If we had a smaller car on either front, it would be difficult to cart, 3 toolboxes, plus all our washing, the dog and god knows what other junk between our house and Michaels Mum's each weekend. (the joys of having an older parent)

If we were a sedan only household, we'd need to take a trailer up and down the 120km each fortnight when we visit between houses with or without various family members.

Thats the reason we bought new falcon wagon as comparatively it is cheaper to run than the Landcruiser. That will change however when the new one arrives in November, as Highway cycle its good for 10L/100km, from a 2.5ton vehicle thats pretty impressive.

So you are right in some ways, but to write off the big aussie six as being inefficient and old is unfair, you get a lot of space for your money, and the fuel consumption is nothing like what it was in the mid 90's.
 

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