More CARS being discontinued

[fan-of-fans]

"You’re right, crossovers are quite a bit more profitable for automakers.

The compact and midsize crossovers to me are kind of a joke in that they tend to be based on their sedan counterparts, but one size down from whatever class the crossover is. So for example a Nissan Rogue is midsize but based on the compact Sentra platform, the Murano is somewhere between mid and full size but based off the Altima/Maxima platform. The Honda CR-V is based off the Civic platform and the Ford Escape is based off the Focus IIRC.
So when you buy a midsize crossover you’re basically getting a lifted up and stretched out compact sedan with a hefty markup, and you still get many of the negative traits of the compact platform like a less then stellar ride quality, add in the poor handling due to a higher center of gravity, worse gas mileage due to a higher profile and often times less cargo & rear seat space than a midsize sedan (however you do get more space vertically). It’s no wonder crossovers are so profitable.

I have driven quite a few crossovers and even had one many years ago and when I switched to a sedan it was like upgrading from an econobox to a Cadillac and I simply just went from a Nissan Rogue to the Altima (I drove a 2018 Rogue recently and they’re still crap IMO). However, some crossovers have gotten pretty good, like the 2017-present Honda CR-V.

After watching the crossover trend grow and grow, I finally recently concluded with confidence that I much prefer a mid or full size sedan or full size truck myself. If I were gonna do an SUV I’d do it right and go full size and make sure it has AWD (like say, the Toyota Highlander)."

I feel the same way. Now I may be jumping to conclusions but I just never cared for the Rogue or Edge, etc when they came out. Like you say they seem to have less rear seat space and less cargo space than some cars. And to me the features available on some of the smaller crossovers aren't as nice as a comparable car, so they're really a step backward than a sedan in a similar price range.

All that said, I guess the vertical height increase is good from a safety standpoint because as another poster said, there are so many trucks and SUVs on the road these days.

 

[fan-of-fans]

I don't like a black interior either, especially all black. I guess for some retro cars like the Dodge Charger/Challenger or maybe a Ford Mustang it makes sense. But to me on a cloudy day it's just too dark and depressing, and I live in Florida, so other areas it's surely worse.

And I too have noticed how so many cars are white, black, red or gray or silver. I like something different like a blue, green, etc.

I'm not planning on spending anywhere near $40k for a car, but if I'm going to be driving a car for 5 to 10 years or more, it might as well be in colors I'd like. As for me, looking for a used car it's even harder to find a good one that's also in the colors I'd prefer. The black interiors are very common with newer cars. They seem to have overtaken the gray that was common about 10 years ago. I prefer beige myself, but that seems to be a less common one now too. And some that are beige are more of a weird mustard yellow instead.

 

[gusherb]

We’ve always had lots of trucks and SUV’s on the road especially where I live, and in general across the Chicago area, so when I heard that sedan sales had plummeted in favor of them it was news to me. The safety concern about being hit by a taller vehicle while in a shorter vehicle is very valid, although I don’t let it bias my decisions heavily. I do have a cousin who got rear ended by a truck while in her Pontiac Grand Prix while she was making a left on a major highway, it hit her going around 60 MPH. She doesn’t know how she walked away from it (the pictures looked horrible). She ended up replacing it with a Ram truck after that, and I don’t blame her one bit.

As for Nissan betting on gaining enough sedan customers to keep them afloat, I’m not surprised one bit. The only vehicles they really focus on and do really good at are the Altima and Maxima, everything else is either “meh” or a complete afterthought. I still wouldn’t get another Altima though, not after all the endless small issues I’ve had with mine. I only keep it around because it’s low miles and has the most comfortable seats I’ve ever sat in in a car. If I for some reason did end up with another I for surely wouldn’t do a first model year of a new generation again, maybe not even second model year. The CVT transmission is something I never liked about them either, I’d much rather a Mazda 6 with a 6spd AT or the 2019 Jetta with its fabulously tuned 8spd AT.

 

[super32]

Being in the northeast an AWD/4WD is a must. At least 1 vehicle in the household. I have had several makes and models thru the years. I will never own another Toyota again. It was extremely uncomfortable and the 4 i had were not reliable either. Not that they are stellar, but Ford has been good to me. Lets be honest, you cant beat an F150. We currently have a Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler T&C and Ford Flex. We are absolutely in love with the Flex. The Flex doesnt get the best mileage but its big enough, comfortable, quick on its feet, and moves around in the snow unless its really "deep snow". With all of this said, another F150 is in our future along with the Flex. I am a big boy towering in at 6'4" and 200lbs. Those small thingy's are so uncomfortable

Pix attached for fun.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Nice. I don't see many Flex around here. I kind of like them. I also like the Town and Country. I really considered getting one of them, because I feel they're a way better value for the money than a crossover, and have more features. But, for someone who never has anyone else in the car, just seems a bit of a waste for one person.

I sat in an Altima when I was looking for the car I have now, like a 2003 or so. I really liked that car, but the newer ones don't do anything for me.

Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion. I do like the last two gens of the Camry better than I used to. But, a new base Camry with NO options is right around $26,000. A used one with 50,000 miles already is around $19,000. I can get a way nicer and/or bigger car than that from a different brand just because it's not a Toyota. Some people, I know like Toyota and will gladly pay more for less car, because of the perceived superiority of it, but to each their own. I just don't see the value in it, but many do.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I'm only 6'1" but my arthritis-ridden body does not like to bend so I see the attraction of the idea of crossovers. I'm on my second Nissan Cube and have no intentions to replace it. I love the ride height and how the back hatch opens like a door so no chance of head injury. The back seats not only recline, but can slide back toward the cargo area so 4 six-foot-plus guys can all have legroom at the same time. I can fold down the back seats and carry a full sized washer. I get 26mpg around town and 30 on highway trips at 80mph with a/c blasting. And at 159" long, my Cube can park almost anywhere. I do wish it had AWD, but I have chains if I need them... haven't yet.

When my first Cube was rear-ended and totalled last year I looked at all the crossovers and they were all too big, too expensive, and got shitty gas mileage.

As has been pointed out, gas prices won't remain artificially low forever.

Jim

If I were, it would be a 2015 Cube (the last year imported) or a Ford C-Max.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Toyotas have always been a bit meh for me. There's nothing wrong with them at all and I'm sure they're great cars, but they're just so expensive for what you get in my opinion.

I have a hard time getting excited about Toyota, myself. BUT I know a lot of people have them, love them, and would never consider any other brand.

The big selling point seems to be reliability and long service life--at least historically. I know of people who have a 20+ year old Toyota that just seems to keep going on and on.

Of course, a new Toyota might not be that good. I've heard some say a 2018 Camry won't last as long as a 1998 Camry (partly because of how complicated the cars are). But the buyer perception is still "Toyota makes reliable cars that last forever!" And so Toyota can charge more than Kia, and get away with it.

As I said above, I have a hard time getting excited by Toyota. I can even go further and say a Toyota Corolla (late 80s? maybe early 90s?) I once test drove was a car I positively HATED. I could not get it back to the dealer fast enough. But Toyota is on my list of cars to consider if I can ever afford to buy a car. Not exciting, but it seems like one of the better gambles. Given how poor I am, I'd be realistically stuck with a car that was made when Bill Clinton was in office, and has a quarter million miles-plus on the odometer.

 

[xraytech]

Before choosing an Enclave, I was considering a Ford Flex. They are rather common here.
I would have got one in the same red as the one Scott has, unfortunately since I wasn’t looking to order a new one, I could not find a Flex, even in Limited trim that had the 2nd row bucket seats. At least on the Enclave the bucket seats are standard

 

[askolover]

I've always liked small cars myself.  I learned to drive in a Mercury Lynx aka Ford Escort.  Town Car's and the Escalade are the largest vehicles I've ever owned and driven but it's easier to get around Nashville in a cracker box car.

 

[ken]

 

[toploader55]

@ Joe...

"I can't be the only person in the world who looks at a Buick crossover and sees a steamed Bratwurst on wheels."

Exactly !!! Hahahaha. Too Funny. Like the Nissan Cube was dubbed "A Toaster". But for some reason I like the Cube.

Have to say, I will stick with my Tacomas. Been driving them since 1986. I take good care of them and they take good care of me. Presently my "Baby Boy" 2004 Tacoma has 180,000 and runs like the day I brought it home.

 

[vacerator]

The Flex is very roomy!

Also seats 7. However, as the new Continental is on the newer Cd-4 platform (Edge, and MKX) and the Flex, as well as the Explorer, the Lincoln MKT, and now defunct Taurus share the old D4 floor pans, etc., I expect they will be also gone before long. It was tweaked from the first Volvo S-80 platform which Ford inherited when they bought Volvo. Not to say they will all be discontinued, but redone like the Edge was, and or renamed as well.

 

[kskenmore]

Town Car

I'm 6'6" so many cars don't fit me. I drive a 21 year old Lincoln Town Car and love every minute. Paid $1,750 almost 3 years ago and will drive it until the transmission drops out of it. Hoping to get another 50,000 miles! When it dies, I'll buy another Town Car. Hopefully find another good 1995-1997. I had a 2003 and it was not near the car my 1997 is.

I am sad to see American car manufacturers leave the sedan segment.

 

[justjunque]

Kskenmore

Agreed. The '95 to '97 Town Cars are some of my favorites.
I also love the style that ran up until maybe 1987 or '88.
Of course, ten years older, ten years more wear and tear/problems.
Back in my show car days, I once had a '77 Ford LTD Landau for a winter car, which always looked and felt somewhat "Lincolny" to me. I loved that car. To heck with the haters!
In the rust belt, or wherever I live, those Fords were notorious for rear bumper rust.
About a block away from work one morning, mine plum fell off in the middle of the road.
I went back, put it in the trunk, and went on to work.
At least I think that was me.
I've been home from work sick since last Friday, and I think I might be starting to lose what's left of my mind.

Barry

 

[fan-of-fans]

"Also seats 7. However, as the new Continental is on the newer Cd-4 platform (Edge, and MKX) and the Flex, as well as the Explorer, the Lincoln MKT, and now defunct Taurus share the old D4 floor pans, etc., I expect they will be also gone before long. It was tweaked from the first Volvo S-80 platform which Ford inherited when they bought Volvo. Not to say they will all be discontinued, but redone like the Edge was, and or renamed as well."

Technically the Taurus is being made until next March so not quite defunct, but I know what you mean.

I'm considering a used Taurus for my next car. I'm just waiting for a dealership to get a used Limited so I can see how they drive and if I like it from the driver's seat. That and a Fusion.

I like the Explorer too but it's too big for what I need (and expensive).

Let's see, the Charger is still made, I had one for a rental, and I liked it overall. It just felt wide on the road because the body stuck out on each side like a 60s or 70s car. I could definitely tell it didn't get as good mileage as my Malibu but it's also a lot bigger.

It's annoying when parking in parking lots these days with so many large vehicles next to you. I tend to park where there are more open spaces to avoid problems backing up, but usually when I come out, I'll find a big truck or SUV has parked next to me and blocks the view of who is coming.

Supposedly backup sensors help a lot with cross-traffic, but I don't know I trust all of these gadgets. If a car is zooming through the parking lot like many these days with no regard for pedestrians or drivers, it's be too fast for any sensor to help.

 

[mieleforever]

I find this clip on You Tube, and its rather interesting to watch, but I think the European Auto industry is on rocky territory as well. Daimler-Benz already predicted a downward swing of things.

Regards,

 

[kskenmore]

Barry

Sorry to hear you are home sick! Praying you get well soon!

The 70's Lincolns and Cadillacs are some of my favorites! A 1979 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance was my first car. Probably why I'm still in love with big old rwd sedans.

The 80's Lincolns do look good, but they are not fun to work on! They aren't near as reliable as the 90's and newer Town Cars. I think 1996 is the sweet spot for Town Cars. For 97 they de-contented them a bit. Losing the engine bay light, engine cover, Lincoln emblem in seats, trunk lock cover, lights in the reflective bar between tail lights... that's all I can think of for now.

Once I was driving my 79 Cadillac and the whole exhaust system fell off from behind the cat! Had to get that fixed in a hurry. The 425 V8 was noisy!

 

[askolover]

It's annoying when parking in parking lots these days with so many large vehicles next to you. I tend to park where there are more open spaces to avoid problems backing up, but usually when I come out, I'll find a big truck or SUV has parked next to me and blocks the view of who is coming.


 

Amen to that!  I park in the parking garage at work and I back in so I don't get slammed trying to back out in the morning when people are running the Indy 500 trying to get out of that garage.  Never fails someone whipped in on two wheels skinning it trying not to be late, park crooked, and too close.  A couple of days ago I could barely get into my little Bug because of this.  I'm about to order some of those "terrible parking award" cards and start handing them out!

 

[firedome]

who is that Scotty idiot...

and why would anyone believe someone whose garage and yard look like a bomb went off in a junkyard? He acts like he's 3 sheets to the wind or maybe he just took his hit of meth for the day. Contrary to what he says, GM does makes some decent cars these days, and it IS about the market.

 

[Ultramatic]

I guess we're going back to this...

 

 

 

 

[ea56]

Re: Reply#49

If only! Yes, technology is vastly improved today, but what craftsmenship they had back in the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and early 60’s. To me, after 1967, the zenith of American automobiles, at least design wise, American cars took a dive in quality, and were never quite the same again.

And the simplicity compared to todays complicated, computerized automobiles is a thing of beauty too. Last time I had major service done on my 2007 Honda Civic, the dealer kindly gave me a brand new 2018 Civic as a loaner. The controls and dash are too distracting, and much of the stuff is just not necessary.

That touch screen crapola for the heater and AC, and audio is much more difficult to use than plain old fashioned knobs and buttons. And I believe, with the heavier traffic today, these things cause more distacted drivers and probably more accidents, that could otherwise have been avoided.

And back then many more people were able to do routine maintance and repairs on their own cars. Now not so much.

I guess I’m just officially an old geezer. LOL I want to drive my car, not have it drive me.

Eddie

 

[lordkenmore]

>And the simplicity compared to todays complicated, computerized automobiles is a thing of beauty too

No kidding.

I've heard so many complaints about new cars being too complex. And I feel overwhelmed, myself, just looking at the photo of a modern car's interior.

And yes, I also think touch screens are potentially too complicated/distracting for handling basic functions.

Oddly, though, I was talking with an owner of a 2009 Civic (which I mentioned above), and he's contemplating replacing the car in the coming months. I don't think he's thrilled at the complexity of a new car, but he did say that one plus he sees are new safety technologies that his current Civic lacks.

 

[askolover]

I'm glad our MKS has an off setting for the radio/nav/climate/phone screen.  I turn it off after dark because it's just too bright and glares at night even with it dimmed all the way.  Ford programmed it to default back to on every time the car is turned off and restarted.  GM didn't do that and in our previous Cadillacs it had to be turned back on manually every time.  It used to make Tony so mad when I'd turn it off because he didn't know how to turn it back on.  I actually liked the dash layout of our previous 2010 model better...it had knobs and buttons instead of touch pads and touch slide pads.  Lincoln has already had to replace the module in our new one because it started turning the radio up by itself and they couldn't figure out why.  I'd rather have an knob or actual button.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Face it: We’re locked into vehicles which are apt to be more expensive, in my case payment-wise, heavier on the road, therefore the licensing becoming more expensive, and as my pay seemingly goes down, without working ever more, my insurance goes up...

— Dave

 

[fan-of-fans]

"I'm glad our MKS has an off setting for the radio/nav/climate/phone screen. I turn it off after dark because it's just too bright and glares at night even with it dimmed all the way. Ford programmed it to default back to on every time the car is turned off and restarted. GM didn't do that and in our previous Cadillacs it had to be turned back on manually every time. It used to make Tony so mad when I'd turn it off because he didn't know how to turn it back on. I actually liked the dash layout of our previous 2010 model better...it had knobs and buttons instead of touch pads and touch slide pads."

I just got a Taurus and drove tonight and the bright white radio screen was about to blind me. I figured out it has a night setting similar to some forums, which makes black background which is much better on eyes. It was set to auto but for some reason it doesn't seem to change when the headlights are on.

Gosh I hope I don't have problems with this one. I came from a 2001 Malibu which was so much simpler to change a/c or radio settings and not all these gizmos and doo dads. LOL This Taurus just has the touch screen or a black panel with flat buttons to change the radio/climate settings. There's a knob for the volume but that's it. A lot of fiddly stuff, makes me wonder if I should have gotten an SE or SEL with just knobs instead. But you still can't get away from all the electronic stuff on any car these days it seems. Yet I think the radio on that Malibu sounded better than this Sony system on a Taurus. lol

I'll get used to it, I keep telling myself I bought this because it would be fun... now I just have to get used to driving it.

 

[justjunque]

Cole,

Congratulations on the new car.
Is it new new, or new to you?

I drive a 2012 Ford Focus at work, and after a couple of years in it, I still haven't figured out all of the controls in the center of the dash.
It's not a touch screen system, but there's just buttons galore.
I'm sure the owners manual would be helpful, but they bought the car used, and the manual didn't come with it.

Barry

 

[fan-of-fans]

Thanks Barry. It's a 2016, but only has 13,000 miles and still smells and looks new (other than a few little marks on the bumper and door handle). I don't plan to ever buy a brand new car. My first car was 9 years old and had just over 20,000 miles. It was a simple car but I loved it.

I haven't figured out probably half the stuff on this Taurus. I looked at the window sticker and it has everything BUT AWD. It's a little hard to take in, because we never had much more than a base to mid range equipped car. And I don't know if I like it all or not. I'm not bragging, as I don't find all the gadgets something to boast over.

The backup camera I find really useful and the sensors that alert if someone is coming into your path. And the mirrors have the blind spot warning lights which helps, because what I don't like is this car has BIG blind spots in the back pillars. I wish they had made this like the Fusion or any previous Taurus and put the little quarter windows back there.

I test drove a 2016 Fusion too which was a beautiful car and I really liked it too. But I thought the Taurus handled smoother and I was used to a V6 since that's what I had before. It also wasn't much more than the Fusion of the same year. The Fusion was just about as complicated.

A friend of mine has a Focus hatchback. Seems like a good car, I looked at one but it sold before I could test drive it. I heard bad things about the newer Focus transmissions though, so I kind of decided to stick with a Fusion or Taurus.

I hope to have this car for 10 years at least. We will see how it lasts. Crossing my fingers.

 

[lordkenmore]

I'm pretty sure 2016 is beyond complicated...

I know someone who has some sort of new Toyota, and she was complaining about the complexity. I think her approach is to learn just what she needs/wants to know, and forget the rest.

I rode about 9 years ago in one woman's Focus. I can't remember how old it was at the time. But I was actually impressed by what I saw of that car. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who was biased towards foreign makes. That Focus was far better than the cheap small Fords of the 80s. No idea what newer Focus models are like, though.

As for transmissions...I'm surprised at how many automatic transmission problems I hear about, and from companies that I'd never guess have a problem. Honda, for example, although Honda isn't apparently the company it was in the 80s. That said...I've also heard that a lot depends on how the transmission is treated. There are people who have a "known weak" transmission, and yet had zero problems with even significant miles. They've maintained the transmission aggressively, and they have driven sanely.

If you carefully maintain the Taurus, and treat it well, I think it's reasonable to expect 10 years. Certainly, at the least, barring any horrific design flaws, I'd guess it should go 100K miles with little trouble.

Then, in 10 years, you can replace it... And if cars keep changing as they are, you can then come here to talk about how much more complicated the 2026 car is compared to your simple Taurus. LOL

 

[justjunque]

Focus transmission

Yeah. The one I drive at work had that issue.
It would buck on take-off like someone trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission.
Then, sometimes it would just randomly downshift while you're driving.
At one point, it lost reverse completely.
Ford did extend the warranty on the transmission out to something like 150,000 miles.
It went back to the dealer a few times before they got it right, but it drives nice now.
It's horrible in snow, but you probably wouldn't have to worry about that in FL.
I'm told that it's better if you turn off the traction control.
If I'm unfortunate enough to have to drive it in snow again, I'll have to try that.
I hope you really enjoy your Taurus once you get through the learning curve!

Barry

 

[gusherb]

The only car I’ve ever had transmission issues with was a 2010 Fusion with the 6F35 transmission. They started at only 6,000 miles and lasted the rest of the time with that car.

Nissans are notorious for going through CVT transmissions and I haven’t had an issue yet, my uncle has a 2012 Maxima with 210k on it and on the original trans.

I honestly don’t believe transmission issues are caused by how one drives a car unless they’re SUPER hard on the car ALL the time, I mean to an extreme, but the car would be having other issues relating to being driven too hard at that point. If otherwise was the case then anyone but granny footed drivers in my area would be going through transmissions like crazy.

With that said I do think maintenance is a big help in prolonging their life, just recently got my mom to take her car to the mechanic to do a fluid change at 71k and it came out pretty dirty. I had noticed it resetting to 1st while coming to a stop a bit roughly when I had driven it prior to that, now it’s back to its smooth self.