WP DD agitator is slipping during wash cycle ?

[jben]

I have a WP (Roper) DD washer and find that I can reach in to the bottom of the tub and rotate the bottom agitator fins back and forth while the washer is in it's wash / agitation cycle. (We are NOT talking about the top part of this dual action agitator that has the dogs)

This machine was made in 2009 and appearance wise, the bottom side is about as clean as I've seen. There are no signs of oil or grease leaks anywhere.

It does seems to be making more noise than I'm used to hearing. I have removed the agitator and the agitator splines inside look OK - and aren't those vertical plastic splines what engages the agitator to the shaft? I will mention that running the washer with the agitator totally removed (on low water level) I can see the shaft seems to be turning as expected but of course there is no torque in this condition.

When the machine is turned off, I can move the agitator bottom fins back and forth in both directions which is the same as I've noted on my other DD washer so I believe this appears normal.

In summary, if one can hold and easily move the agitator while the machine is running does this point to a bad gearcase / transmission ?

If so I think that means time to junk the machine or replace the transmission - is there any other options to consider before making that decision?

 

[repairguy]

The agitator spline could be stripped but usually if it is the transmission spline is usually corroded. The other option as you stated could be in the transmission. Does the machine spin ok? Sometimes the metal lined drive coupling causes the motor or transmission shaft to round off. If this was the case I don’t believe the machine would spin correctly either.

 

[yogitunes]

simplest, easiest....

check first....motor coupler....as in remove pump and motor, and check that piece is in good condition....

I have seen where this piece was in tight enough to somewhat function, yet create the illusion that something is wrong with the transmission....

most times it just snaps, and the only thing the machine will do is pump out water....and sometimes it throws a trick at you....

 

[jben]

Spins and draining seem normal

The transmission spline is not corroded. The spin and draining all seem to be fine.

I have only owned a handful of the DD machines but seldom read about transmission's stripping. I recall when I did the new neutral drain kit earlier in the year on another KM DD, that I thought these transmission internals looked really robust.

I was hoping it was just a couple but didn't see any signs of it showing damage.

 

[jben]

I didn't see your reply Yogitunes but will take your advice and pull the motor to make certain that coupler isn't the problem.

Thanks for sharing your experience as I otherwise had already satisfied myself the coupler looked OK. Will report back tomorrow.

 

[repairguy]

So if the coupling is ok and neither shafts that it connects to ( motor or transmission) have been rounded by the metal inserts in the coupling and the agitator spline is ok then it has to be in the transmission. I would start the machine in agitate and then shut it off. You shouldn’t be able to move the bottom of the agitator. If you can move the agitator, remove it and while protecting the transmission spline see if it turns with a pair of pliers. If not I’d say agitator if so transmission.

The transmissions in the last years of these machines were not near as great as the ones from 20-30 years ago. For one they were much noisier from the factory.

Also, after many years of working on these machines I’ve only seen one stripped agitator and it was caused by a failed agitator bolt seal. It also ruined the transmission spline.

 

[jben]

It is a bad transmission

I went ahead and took off the motor to check the coupler and shaft ends. All good.

I swapped with a known good agitator from my daughters WP, and I could still easily turn the bottom fin portion in both directions while the machine was doing a wash (agitation) cycle.

The sound really also gives it away as this machine is much louder and deeper sound that what is normal for a WP DD.

I was somewhat surprised to watch it do the neutral drain just perfect. I may eventually open the transmission to see what internal part has failed and could be making the noise just for curiosity. For now I'm going to just set it aside because I've grown tired of messing with it without success.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote> ... and I could still easily turn the bottom fin portion in both directions while the machine was doing a wash (agitation) cycle.</blockquote> You're saying that you can reach down into the water and turn the base of the agitator manually back-and-forth while the machine is filled with water and running in an agitation period?  The agitator isn't being driven to oscillate by the running motor and transmission, it only moves if you turn it manually?

 

[jben]

1/2 correct

Yes, I am reaching down into the water while the agitator IS being driven to oscillate by the running motor and tranny in the wash part of cycle.

However I would say the oscillation is not as forceful as normal in the water, but the agitator base is oscillating. The NOISE is greater. The DD clunka, clunka is still there but anyone with a DD machine would notice the noise is louder than they are used to hearing.

Indeed with agitator oscillating, I then can reach down in the water and hold (stop) the fins stationary. I can just as easily move the fins backwards and forwards in the water (i.e. back and forth) all while the machine continues to run (motor and tranny). As soon as I release the bottom fins they will immediately continue to oscillate again so the agitator IS being driven to oscillate. The noise is constant - it does not change at all if I am just watching, or when I reach down and hold, or move the fins backward in the water with my hand.

The timer advances to the ND and it completes normal. Then on to spin cycle which is also normal. No unusual noise during these parts of cycle (I think that is expected because the motor is turning the agitator in the opposite direction and not engaging the transmission).

As mentioned above, this Roper machine was made in mid-2009. Meanwhile our "Lady" Kenmore washer, that we raised our two girls with, continues to work fine with only two or three sets of new dogs during that time. The Lady Kenmore machine has to be ~30 years old now as that is the age of my older daughter. It has been our family "daily driver" up until I started getting the washer bug this year.

 

[DADoES]

 
Definitely a problem in the transmission.  Possibly the shift cam and/or spring at bottom of the agitator drive shaft is broken.