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Let me throw the first grenade. Every modern dishwasher I’ve had has cleaned very well using relatively little water and energy. Brands include Frigidaire, Maytag, LG, GE and my current machine, a portable low-end Whirlpool. In fact, due to the racket it makes, I use only the 1-hr cycle and it does a bang-up job, even on pots/pans.

Having said that, I fully understand the complaints about 2 hour + 40 minute normal cycles. I’d also argue that drying is more of a problem than actual cleaning with some of today’s dishwashers.
 
Ehhh

...I agree to an extent. My Bosch is more efficient than my Whirlpool in both electricity and water when using the Normal cycle. The Bosch also cleans better when using that cycle. It isn’t just water and energy values but more of a design factor. Older KitchenAid DWs were great, but not in EVERY way possible. So a machine, like my Bosch, would clean better if it were allowed to use higher wash temps or more water to allow for greater spray pressures. However, newer detergents rely so heavily on enzymes that long wash times would still be necessary. I’m not saying I wouldn’t like it, but I’m just not sure it would make that big of a difference in a normal cycle. Now a 1 hour cycle is a completely different beast.
 
Let me add to this

Make washers and dryers clean again!
I’m not impressed by whirlpool’s new design.
If they made a quality machine, I would buy whirlpool again. Until next time.
(IMO)
 
Uninformed or user error?

Do some people not know how to use modern equipment?  All my current generation equipment well out performs TOL  stuff it replaced - all while using much less power or water.  I'm coming up on 2 years with my KA dishwasher and can count on one hand the items that I took out that were not spotless.  MY WP Duet washers get everything clean, and have gotten spots and stains out that my previous LK TL couldn't budge.

 

Really get tiered of hearing that "new" stuff is crap.  Learn how to use it.
 
 
Yes, consumers are loathe to change their habits to fit how "newfangled" machinery works.

For example, habitual prerinsers impair the performance of dishwashers with soil sensors ... causing the cycle to be shortened AND heating temperatures reduced.  Many also get in a tizzy about those long cycles (on both washers and dishwashers), choosing the shortest "Quick" cycle regardless of load size and/or stain/soil level (which particularly comes into play for laundry).
 
Phooey on the naysayers

My Maytag dishwasher that is a couple years old cleans better than all my previous machines and it’s virtually silent. It just took a little experimentation to learn how to use it. First off, it cleans best with the longest Power Scrub or whatever the cycle is called rather than normal or auto. That was true of my older DWs too. That adds a couple more rinses which makes all the difference. It just took a little experimentation to figure out the right dose of detergent. Second, it doesn’t take anywhere near the 3 or 4 hours it says it’s going to take if you turn on the kitchen faucet and get the water hot before starting it, which everyone should know to do with any dishwasher new or old. Capacity is smaller than my Newton, IA Maytags, but the build quality of the door and racks is infinitely better.

And my HE FL washer gets clothes cleaner than my old school full fill TL Maytags and SQ ever did. And it gets stains out first time every time with no pre-scrubbing. Just need to bleed the water line hot before starting, and learn how to load and dose detergent properly. I’d never go back to using all that water and detergent in the old TLs. All the people complaining about no cleaning and unwet clothes are grossly overloading and over or under dosing detergent, and/or using too much fabric softener.

So what if these machines run 2 hours. Multi task and do other things.

Life is good.

Sure I love the glitzy chrome styling of the old appliances and cars. But they’re not necessarily better.
 
I don’t think modern dishwashers are that bad. It’s clothes washers I have most issue with. I’m convinced the recent scent additives and highly scented detergents are a result of modern washers being unable to fully remove stink from clothing and instead of fixing our machines we’re being told to douse our clothing in artificial fragrance to cover the stench up.
 
I think products have become highly scented because it's now cheap for manufacturers to make them that way and people actually prefer them (or equate highly-scented with "more powerful.")  The original Tide liquid is P&G's latest victim.  Over at the Tide website there's plenty of outrage and all P&G will say is that most consumers prefer an "intense" fragrance.

 

The Tide Powder with Bleach is still lightly scented but I now expect it to be turned into unbearable perfume at any time and any box I buy could be my last.

 

As far as energy efficiency goes, appliance manufacturing is now in the hands of a few global corporations.  A temporary pause in the USA's standards isn't going to change much, if anything.

 

 
 
Drying

My parents have a new Bosch dishwasher that is very good! It holds an incredible amount of dishes and runs totally silently. It has a ding ding ding at the end so you know it is finished. However, it does not dry at all. It has no heating element. So they have to leave it standing open for about 12 hours to allow most of the dishes to dry. They always mention how they love it, but hate that it doesn't dry.
 
Wow

I am very shocked we all seem to be in agreement!
However, washer and dryers are another beast. I wanted to discuss that, but figured I would save some hair pulling. Looks like we are headed there anyways! New machines should have a water factor of at least 3.2 and use 105F degree water for warm and tap hot for hot settings on normal cycles! Cleaning would soar, and additive usage would be minimized by the ‘uneducated’/ignorant.
 
Flash drying - at least that's what I recall the owner's manual for the Bosch SHU43C sez.  Frankly I think it dries well enough. The only water left behind is that caught in the concave bottoms of certain items like cups and wine glasses. Simple enough just to tip them over, and maybe wipe a little off with a clean towel.

 

Then again, I chose the longest and hottest cycle (pot scrubber) so when the cycle is over, there's a cloud of steam if you open it right away. I'm not sure if things dry faster with the DW open or closed.

 

As for cleaning, it's rare that everything doesn't come out spotless. The only time I had trouble with it was when the drain pump needed replacement. Before the Bosch I had a Frigidaire which was a nightmare. It lasted about five years, and I picked up the Bosch as a customer return at Sears. No regrets.
 
long dishwasher cycles?

I don't really get that complaint. Are they waiting for the dishwasher to finish so they can serve dinner on the clean plates?

I typically turn the dishwasher on when I go to bed -- doesn't matter if it runs 30 minutes or 3 hours -- I wake up to spotless dishes. I agree with the majority here that modern dishwashers are more efficient, do a superior job and are much quieter. I remember my mom having to turn the dishwasher off when she would get a phone call.

I believe unsatisfied customers are probably not using the machines correctly and have not read the instruction books that came with their machines.
 
The problem for me with super-long cycles is that two loads usually need to be run when I have company. I try to do a load of cookware before the meal, but that doesn’t always play out. Back at the house (and the warehouse apt.) there could easily be three or even four loads when making big meals for 8+. It’s in those cases where cycle time can really add up.

And to answer the question I know is coming: Washing anything by hand is cheating!!

Now that my life has been downsized, there are no more 2 or 3 entree buffets with multiple sides + desserts.  We usually just go out to eat if there are more than four of us, LOL.
 
I actually have some faith renewed seeing that most don't agree with this misinformed opinion article. I've now had three of Whirlpool's current platform dishwashers in this house since late 2015: the WDT920 that has become YouTube famous and has several threads on this site with peanut butter glasses in the corner of the top rack and the scorched on foods tests, and is now living at my grandparents' house because I wanted them to have something sleek and modern and silent in their new kitchen, then the KDFE104 that I adored but ended up letting HD return it because it had been damaged in shipping on the back, which made the upper ball bearing rack glides seem "off" during the 6-7 months I had it, which resulted in the WDF520 that I have now that will stay with the house when we move, that also has beyond impressed me considering it's a much more mid range model than the TOL quality of the 920 and KitchenAid, yet cleans like a beast while running all wash levels. I even have some video clips of it posted after I swapped in the third level wash manifold, and it's about as close as we can probably get on the market today that resembles the "hurricane in a box" of the PowerCleans and old KitchenAid's.

All of these machines have "pond pumps", they all have normal cycle times of 2-2.5 hours, and all use around 3-4 gallons on a normally soiled full load, and they all, each and every time produce perfect results, and I've yet to have any sort of odor or more than a tiny speck every once in a blue moon. And after I modified the 520 with Noico sound mastic all over the outer surfaces and inside the door, it's as silent as both the other 46db rated machines.

Also, as much as I revere the PowerClean as one of the most well designed and bulletproof dishwashers to ever grace this earth, all of these modern machines outperform it in overall cleaning, quietness, and efficiency. I adored the PC but because of its rapid cycles with today's enzyme based detergents, I frequently would pull out a stray spoon or bowl that would still have a bit of dried goop on it.

And this is just based on WP's platforms. There are many brands and designs being offered today that easily compare in performance, though build quality and "feel" are arguable in my opinion.

And laundry is a whole other rant with the same idea, after I've now owned two HE top loaders and the front load I've had now for 2 years.
 
4 loads a day

That's like saying you need a SUV just because one of the roads you commute on goes through a forest IMO.

Yeah sure in those situations yes you might need something else.

But, like, how often is that?

And can you justify such a major difference in overall design for those rare cases?

I'm 99% certain that the savings outweigh the additional usage of a couple of sinks worth of water.

And on durability:

So, a 80s KA was how much back then? 300-400$?

That's close to 1000$ today. Just as a perspective...
 
I've also mentioned this before in other threads, but I will never understand the hang up over cycle times. It would be one thing if these machines had to be hand operated, but jeez, all you have to do is set your options, click a button, and walk away, and when you come back when it's done, the whole operation has been finished. That's the whole point of an "automatic" washer or dishwasher!? I can't imagine being someone pacing in front of the machine, biting their nails in distress because they're waiting for the exact moment they can pop that lid or door open. There are thousands of things a person can do in the time that machine is doing its job completely on its own. Go watch a movie or something, lol.
 
Needing fast cycle times during company is a valid argument, but at the same time, during my 29 years of life and all the holidays at my grandparents' and aunt Robin's, both being the "adults" I've always looked up to and admired, I vividly remember that when the kitchen was busy and they were the showrunners delegating tasks, ALL the pots and pans, bake-ware, and large items like huge mixing bowls and such, were all washed by hand as we went. And I do that to this day. All the dinnerware and small stuff goes in the dishwasher, so long as none of it is wood or nonstick. Even having a 15 person Thanksgiving as recent as last year, we didn't have a back up of dishes or a shortage of anything, and the dishwasher ran twice the whole day, fully packed. I myself dislike handwashing dishes, but when it's all large items, it kinda cuts down on the time, versus if you had all the little utensils and silverware and cups to deal with.
 
I will never understand the hang up over cycle times

I'm one of the ones who has commented more than once about long cycle times. My thought (and I'm not alone in this): I don't like leaving an appliance running fully unattended. I won't hover over it, of course, but I want to be around in case something goes wrong (like screams of mechanical anguish, or the sound of water running when it shouldn't). Perhaps I'm too conservative or paranoid...

These long cycle times may or may not work with a particular schedule.
 
I also have commented on long cycle times for entertaining. It's possibly valid to think of a situation outlined above of a family gathering where people might be recruited to do dishes. (Indeed, I've heard this before--one dishwasher detractor I know chirped cheerfully that the only time I'd ever have lots of dishes is for family gatherings, and everyone will pitch in to clean the kitchen!) But this doesn't apply to all families, and it may not apply to other entertaining one might do.

As always, a lot hinges on the person and his or her circumstances...
 
Of course, there are ways of working around the problem of long cycle times for entertaining. One very obvious solution: if it was a huge problem regularly, one could get a second dishwasher. (Not that anyone here would want a second...or third...or fiftieth dishwasher. LOL)
 
No hand washing is allowed at my house.  I'm one of those "strange" people that won't use anything unless it's been washed in the dishwasher.  In the process of preparing things for a company meal, or something similar, I have been known to "sort" dishware and give first priority any/everything that can be washed with simply using the 1-hour cycle.

 

The one time I haver used the delay start feature was two years ago.  When I awoke the next morning, that was when the diverter/distribution valve decided to tank.  I'm too skiddish to tempt fate again and have that happen all over again.  I just don't fall asleep very easily knowing the dishwasher is still running.  I've ceased using the dry cycle most of the time as it's just about finished with the final rinse by the time I'm ready to go to bed.  That way I can open the door and let everything flash/steam dry over night.  
 
@iheartmaytag

I agree with you. Cleaning, cycle times are no issue. It's the fact that they are designed to die in a much shorter amount of time that bugs me to no end. Especially since the USA is always professing how we can limit environmental impacts by being more energy conscious and yet they cut corners or design these machines to live a much shorter life and we end up having to replace them more frequently. It makes ZERO sense with environmental impact in mind. I think proper maintenance helps some... but my refrigerator is designed to fail just the way it's built, no matter how clean I keep the coils.
 
Just buy a machine that has a quick or a fast Option.

The Miele defaults to 2-2.5 hours on the normal auto cycle and completes the cycle in less than 2 Gal of water, using spray arm alternation and gentle sprays.

Add the Short option and you still get the same cleaning capability, but its all over in 1 hour, including 12 mins of drying time. This uses around 4 gal of water. Both arms run at once and the spray pressure is higher.
 
Every dishwasher I’ve had in the last 10 years has had an impressively effective short cycle. That really keeps things moving in multiple/consecutive loads situations.  

 

I used to entertain 2-3 times a week—often with multiple entree buffets—so the dishwasher had to do multiple loads frequently.  An effective short cycle (usually 45-75 minutes) was an important feature.
 
That's close to 1000$ today. Just as a perspective...

And a new Kitchen aid will cost you upwards to $1500 today, and still be designed to fail in five to eight years.
Perspective: the year my mom bought her first dishwasher, you could get a decent slightly used car for $1500.

I just think for a grand or more the dishwasher should outlast the main course.
 
A TOL KitchenAid was advertised for $499 in 1980 in my local paper.  That would be just over $1500 today.

 

For a long time I've been of the opinion that paying more often just gets you more features, not more reliability.  But who knows?

 

I would love to see a real parts breakdown and reliability study of the various WP models today:

 

Cheap $300 Whirlpool

Mid-range $600 Maytag

High-end $1500 KitchenAid

 

And see what lasted longer.

 
 

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