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Not siding with anyone, but John does have a point with plastic outer tubs vs porcelain on steel outer tubs. I’ve dealt with rust issues on my Whirlpool almost 3 years ago, ended up having to have the outer tub welded with rust holes that developed. Whirlpool did use plastic outer tubs on the belt drive machines in the 1970’s for a brief time but decided to go back to metal outer tubs since the plastic in the 70’s was more expensive than metal do to the oil embargo of 1973.

If the belt drives in the 70’s and 80’s had plastic outer tubs, I’m sure there would still be more of them around since plastic holds up better than metal in some cases, that’s why they went to plastic pumps since the metal ones had a tendency of corroding and causing more trouble than a plastic pump.
 
I agree with John about plastic being better than metal. For example if you were to accidently drop the metal tub on a SQ, chances are you're gonna get a ding on it. Whereas plastic, that won't ever happen. The plastic tubs on my Kenmore 90 Series has NEVER broke nor has it ever rusted, unfortunately I've seen rust before from SQ and that's one of the reasons why I'm less interested in getting a SQ top loader. So I'll keep fixing my Kenmore up for as long as I can before ever replacing it with a SQ but I'd rather upgrade to a LG front loader instead.

And speaking of LG, I disagree with Dan and probably Jerome too who I no longer see his posts due to blocking him. I think both LG and Samsung are fine in the appliance market because they do work. My parent's LG front loader is the best set they've had in their house so that means it's better than their old Maytag and both of their GEs' one of which was a Filter-Flo (Jerome's favorite I bet). In fact, we just bought a LG set for the family cabin cause I like my parent's so much. I also like Samsung as well, in fact my uncle's front loader is the longest lasting washer he's ever had (at least from my eyes) even longer than his old Kenmore 90 Series similar to mine he used to have a long time ago. As what Eddie stated, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
 
I do need to correct myself. I assumed dishwashers when I saw Permatuff.
Laundry I have no idea.
But the Dws, plastic was to save their butts in defects.
 
"fine in the appliance market"

Never owned an exploding Samsung top load washer, nor a fridge which requires you to defrost the icemaker weekly have you?

How about an LG refrigeration product with their renown "Linear" compressor, a component which has led a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer?
 
to kalanikaau1

I've heard stories and I have seen complaints where the plastic outer tubs have cracked from the factory whenever somebody tried to do laundry. Needless to say, water went everywhere. So yes, that's why I defend steel tubs.
 
Never owned or used a Samsung top loader before and I wouldn't even care. Top loaders with an agitator are now outdated for me, I really have no plans on getting another one. And I'll never own one of those HE top loaders, I hate using my grandfather's Maytag. Also haven't used a Samsung fridge from what I recall but I'd rather have a fridge with no ice maker or just never use it at all. My parent's 30+ year old GE always gets jammed in the ice maker. My sister's Whirlpool built Kenmore is even worse, hers has to get emptied out at least once a week. So why would I want a ice maker where I can simply go the old fashion way of filling up water in the ice trays? In regards to LG fridges, I'm aware of the lawsuit news and I'll admit it's something I've got my close eye on. So far my aunt's LG is on year three, still going without any issues. It could maybe fail tomorrow, it could live for another 10 or so years, etc. I will say though that my aunt's old house had an LG and from what I was told, her's never failed before moving away and it lasted longer than her first fridge which definitely wasn't an LG. I'll also say that my brother's new GE fridge he bought when he moved into his new house this year has already failed twice on him, I was surprised because I was told GE is one of the better fridges on the market today. In fact I actually suggested getting a GE fridge for our family cabin but I think I'm slightly glad we went with LG instead because of my brother's experience with his GE. Not saying LG is a better option but just saying though that not all quantity products can last for a short while and not all quality products can last for a long time. Our LG may be the last fridge we've bought for the cabin before the time comes for us to sell the place.
 
As a washer enthusiast (as well as others on the site), front loaders (HE machines in general) are the 4 door of the washer world, nothing really cool about them.

Of course, I actually don’t mind 4 door cars since I am a car enthusiast as well, but in terms of washers? Don’t much care for front loaders since there’s nothing entertaining or distinctive about them.
 
I think a lot of this crud buildup is the byproduct of repeated cold water washing and poor / not enough detergent. Made worse by fabric softner. IMO metal vs plastic outter tubs make no major difference.

 

Things like frequent warm/hot water washing in between cold, strong detergent dosed generously and spin draining make for a self cleaning washer each cycle.

 

Some light suds in the rinse water is ok, they make for softer clothes out of the dryer in my experience. I've noticed double or trippled rinsed clothes while smelling very fresh often have a dry scratchy feel to them without softner.     
 
Sean, personally I find front loaders far more entertaining than top loaders. the only top loader I find anything to get excited about is the Frigidaire GM washers. Otherwise, I find top loaders pretty boring except for the original Kelvinators.

But to be fair, I've been fascinated with front loaders since I was a toddler. [this post was last edited: 8/8/2024-20:18]
 
I think both top loaders and front loaders are fun to watch since I grew up with them. That's one of the reasons why it'd be my dream to own both, use the front loader as my daily driver and use the top loader once in a while for fun. Of course between the two if I can only own one of them, I'd definitely choose the front loader without any regrets. Less water, less electricity, less detergent, less lint removal, more quieter, and more size capacity. The only thing I like about top loaders more such as my Kenmore for example is I can open up the lid to add anything in the load without having water come out of the door like my parent's LG.
 
You're taking good care of the machines you use. My washer has a fabric care chart which which recommends hot and warm more often that not. It also shows garments being sorted and what cycle to use for each garment type.

 

I typically follow the cycle chart and sort fabrics by type and cycle to be used along with the recommended water temperature. Mixing various garments and loads into a single wash cycle is not a thing I normally do.

 

 

chetlaham-2024080821153104070_1.jpg
 
Front loaders may have a larger drum, but here’s one thing most people don’t realize, you are supposed to only load them 2/3 to 3/4 full, not all front loaders are the same size. By the time you load a front loader 2/3 to 3/4 full, the same load will probably fit in a direct drive, Speed Queen, maybe even a Helical Maytag. Again, every front loader has a different capacity so it’s not an exact comparison.

Reply #133. I, too, want to cut back on electricity, but am not going to get another set just to do so. Today, I washed two lightly soiled loads in my Maytag A806. Instead of washing things for the full 10 minutes, decided to wash with a conservative 3 to 5 minutes (that’s what Maytag recommended with their wringer washers, possibly automatics in the early 60’s) since it would not only get done faster, but use a little less electricity as well. Rinsed in cold too as well. When I went to put them in the dryer, decided to go by the suggested drying times in a vintage manual for the early 60’s Maytag Highlander HOH dryers, dried a small load of shirts for 15 minutes, a medium load of shorts for 25 minutes and yes that’s ‘damp dry’, but decided to hang up the items as soon as my Maytag DE806 was done drying. Just going by those suggested washing and drying times will reduce electricity costs, clothing wear, and wear and tear on the machines. Sometimes, it simple common sense that makes all the difference.

Here’s the suggested Wash times Maytag had back in the 1960’s, screenshot I took not too long ago,

maytag85-2024080821512300149_1.jpg
 
To clarify, I wasn't talking about opening up to door to where the whole laundry room would flood from a front loader. Whenever I'd open up the door, the glass door would have a few drips onto the carpet. Unfortunately I made a mistake one time opening up the door during a cycle with bleach inside to add something in and got some bleach stains onto the carpet. Since then I've been super careful but that is one less worry on my Kenmore. The LG did used to leak water out of the door until that seal got fixed by the technician, I was annoyed by that before. Another thing that annoys me is sometimes whenever I'd put in sanitizer or vinegar into the softener dispenser, it would leak into the prewash dispenser. And I used to put in powder detergent onto the soap dispenser until the technician pulled out the tray when the washer was getting fixed and pointed out that powder detergent can cause some build up, since then I quit using powder detergent and just only stick to liquid. But other than that, we've been happy with the LG.
 
"Front loaders may have a larger drum, but here’s one thing most people don’t realize, you are supposed to only load them 2/3 to 3/4 full"

 

Nonsense. Front loaders can be loaded right to the top. That's the load they are rated for - loaded up full but not crammed tight. Once the load is wet it will squish down a bit and there will be plenty of tumble space.

 

On older FL machines they used to say to leave room at the top for a fist. That's a small gap. With more accurate water level control these days, even that little gap isn't needed on modern FL washers.
 
Front load washer capacity

You’re absolutely correct Chris you can fill a front load washer all the way up, you can get almost twice as much clothing per cubic foot in a front load washer as a top load machine.

Top load washers cannot begin to wash things like king size comforters uniformly, you can stuff them in there, but it’s not a very effective cleaning Process if the item is actually very dirty only parts of it will get clean.

My three-year-old Speed Queen front load washer I pack full every time I use it almost I routinely wash 12 pairs of men’s jeans in the washer per load.

John
 
That's one of the beauties of front loaders is the size capacity, I still stand behind from my other comment. I can't fully load a king size comforter in my Kenmore top loader but no problem with my parents' front loaders. I'm sure that's one of the reasons why my newest local laundromat doesn't have any SQ top loaders, they're all SQ front loaders (actually they're branded Huebsch).
 
My mother just replaced her Maytag stacked unit with a whirlpool unit. The WP setup is larger in each machine but the whole unit weighs about 100# less than the Maytag it replaced. I now have the MT unit and have repaired it. I was cleaning it up a few nights ago and it wasn't too bad for being 30 years old. The white porcelain tub isn't even etched or scratched like some I've seen. The dryer isn't even blue inside. I will be listing it for sale soon. I'll bet the new WP Setup won't Last 30 years of almost daily use.
 
Generally H-axis washing machines should be loaded to full rated capacity by weight. That is for normal cottons/linens if machine is rated for 15lbs that is what loads should be. Under loading H-axis washers causes all sorts of issues such as vibration during extraction, making it difficult for machines to properly distribute loads for extraction.

If machine cannot balance loads properly things vary by programming but usually it means washer will stop and attempt to rebalance load. Try spinning again and if same result will repeat process again. This may go on for a few more attempts until washer either won't spin or will do so at lower speed. Either way all that pfaffing about with aborted and repeated spinning takes up time.

Constantly under loading or otherwise causing conditions are out of balance during extraction is hard on washer. This can lead to issues with bearings and support suspension system.

Mind you there is a world of difference between say 15 pounds of terry cloth bath towels and wash cloths versus bed sheets and pillow slips.

You have to take into account drum volume in relation to capacity. A properly loaded H-axis washer will tumble goods from 2 O'clock to 8 O'clock

Terry cloth and some other fabrics will greatly compact down once wet. Some weaves of bed linen and other textiles may not.



You can see even with a Milnor divided cylinder washer operator loads each pocket to full weight/tub capacity.



When washman loads machine you can see linen has compacted down quite a bit.



Then of course there are diapers...



Commercial/industrial laundries long weighed wash loads and most still do. IIRC early on in semi-automatic and fully automatic washing machine days it was suggested laundresses, housewives or whoever was doing wash should weigh loads to ensure weren't over loading or under loading certain machines. I *think* this may have been with early Bendix or other front loaders.

SQ washer that appears "stuffed" when loaded, but notice how things compact down when wet.

Much smaller load in SQ washer:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJFHsEI7XOI
 
Another thing to consider

Is unlike their commercial/industrial cousins domestic washing machines usually have pumps. There are limits to how much water (and or froth) those devices can cope with at any given time. Once limit is reached or near machine either must slow down or simply stop extraction, clear pump of extra water, then start things again.

Older domestic front loaders such as my Miele W1070 advised to load machine at three-quarters to half full (by volume of tub) when doing loads consisting mainly of absorbent items. This would be things made from terry cloth and such.

Having just a dump valve that opens and shuts means you very well can load commercial/industrial H-axis washers to full rated capacity with bath linen, blankets, or other absorbent items. Machine will extract at full force (when reached) regardless because there isn't same worries about overloading pump with water/froth.
 
Life expectancy of frontload washers, etc.

Unbalanced loads in front load washers will not affect the bearings, they may cause a little more shock absorber wear.

The biggest thing that affects the life of any washing machine is doing too many loads so when you do half size loads, you’re not protecting the machine in anyway you’re wearing out the machine by doing extra loads every week every month, etc.

John
 
Reply #147

John, I agree with you about this completely, I've never seen a washer last very long where people are doing teeny-tiny loads all the time.

When this issue is brought up, I like to tell the story of my mom and my aunt and their approach to laundry. My aunt had a Whirlpool belt drive washer that lasted until the early 2000's, so nearly 20 years maybe longer. She has three kids and they lived on a farm, did 4H, etc so lots of dirty clothes. However, my aunt washed very large loads in that washer and usually would do about 5-6 loads back to back on one day, then would wait until there was enough laundry to do the same again. She sorted correctly but 99% of her sorted loads were huge. I bet she took full advantage of that 18-pound capacity tub.

My mom on the other hand had a very strange sorting system that resulted in a bunch of very small loads. For example, she would wash all black dress socks and nylons together and would not include any other delicate laundry. Shirts of literally the exact same construction would go together so there might be seven or eight pieces in a load if that. This resulted in probably 10-11 loads all told and she would do this very frequently. Her washers lasted 10 years at maximum because she probably overdid it running them all the time like that.

I feel like I have to underload a bit in my current VMW. Certainly these washers can fit quite a bit but it seemed like my direct drive could handle more laundry, even though the capacity was 3.2 cu. ft. instead of 3.5.

Ryne
 
 
My mother frequently does mini loads.  I've advised her several times that it doesn't save as much water as she believes vs. doing fewer larger loads, and wear on the machine is increased being that operational time is the same ... including dryer time not being reduced as much as she may believe.

dadoes-2024081813031709081_1.jpg
 

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