When did Maytag start to go bad?

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johnb300m said:
WiFi is not the big seller in appliances you may be thinking. That’s mostly on the upper trim levels. And those don’t sell in the high volumes like the mid and lower levels do. The few people buying WiFi appliances are doing it because they like the remote signals that loads are finished. Do you “need” it? No. It’s a convenience factor. The WiFi mostly allows the manufacturer to upload firmware updates and track users. Many people do complain about the WiFi connection and often don’t seem to re-purchase it.
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And manufacturers "having control" through WIFI can also control possible hidden features to make the damn thing break down, forcing consumers to purchase another appliance, keep that cash flow going.
I might be speculating, but the way corporate America seems to be these days, greedy, I wouldn't put it past them.
And why "track users"? - As for me, I like my privacy, something else the internet isn't known for.

When they started to bring out those refrigerators with touch screens, automatic food sensors that could add things to your shopping list..... I knew trouble was ahead.
Dumb down society to the point of being a controlled idiot.
 
I would agree that a college education is sometimes wasted by folks that have borrowed on student loans that will take them decades to pay off, if they ever do. While they then don’t even use the college degree that they earned, if they ever even attain a degree. But for young people that are focused and have a specific goal in mind for a career that requires a college degree then go for it.

I see the real problem to be that many children aren’t expected to aspire to a goal for the future that will make them able to take care of themselves when they become adults. Back when I went to High School we had counselors that we met with yearly to discuss what our career goals were. And back in the 60’s it was recognized that not every student was college material and vocational training was offered for those that didn’t want to or couldn’t afford to attend college. Somehow today the general opinion is that if you don’t go to college you can’t be a success. This is wrong! ALL work is honorable!

I have believed for decades that by the eight grade all students need to be evaluated on what their future career choices are and what their intellectual abilities are, and then channel them into high school courses that will allow them to graduate with either a solid pre college education or a vocational education that will allow them to employable and ready to be self sufficient adults. Furthermore I strongly believe that a lot of the problems with homelessness is partially due to the fact that kids from as soon as they enter school that when they become adults, they will be expected to take care of themselves. This idea that offspring are the lifelong responsibility of their parents is crippling to their children, birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim and are taught by their parents to be able to do so. It’s a grave disservice to give a child the idea that they can be perpetually dependent upon their parents.

Too many parents allow their kids to live at home indefinitely with no plans or goals for their future as self supporting adults. I also believe that this current attitude that every school student “gets a star” is misguided. By rewarding mediocrity we don’t encourage our youth to strive to be their best. In my school days when you received an award it really meant something, not just showing up and keeping a desk chair warm. When we reward excellence that is what our students will strive to achieve.

All that being said there are lots of very responsible and good kids out there! They aren’t all bad, but the news generally only reports on the troubled kids. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area our CBS affiliate KPIX has a long running program called “Students Rising Above” and every week they have a segment about a kid that has come from a troubled or deprived background and is overcoming the obstacles that life has thrown in their way and they are excelling in their education and in their lives. It is a very inspiring thing to see. In fact I can think of no better charity to leave an inheritance to!

Eddie
 
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I believe one reason my parents pushed college is because they worked in health care and most health care careers require college with the advanced science classes. I think there is a difference between people who work in health care and people who don't regarding things that are hazardous. For example, my father was a dentist with the veterans administration and consulted on a case where a patient was hit in the mouth with a hockey puck. He did NOT want me to play hockey like my friend "Frankie" did. He never owned a circular saw, not until my brother was older did we have one, because he did not want to lose his fingers and his ability to practice dentistry.

As for my interest in washers, my parents sent me to a child psychiatrist because of it, other things too, because I did not want to play baseball (no good at it and soooooo boring). I think other people here can relate something like this regarding their interest in washers and dryers.
 
Neptune Bob, having been born in Pittsburgh myself, and knowing what changed economically in the 1980's, many went into healthcare, I.T., and other non industrial skills.
Matt, the big money moguls have always manipulated our economy and govt. Since George Washington, and like when JP Morgan bought Carnegie steel.
It's full circle with a large venture capital firm owing US steel. So it's either this way, or a system with the Govt. funding firms and taking profit back off the top of the bottom lines like China, or Russia. Pick your poison. I don't think those have employee 401k plans, and as many other investing opportunities for private citizens.
 
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DADoES said:
I had no interest in sports. My sisters played sports. The parents had no concern about any of that. I was valedictorian of my high school class. Middle sister was salutatorian, younger sister was 3rd-up honor graduate ... we were 1, 2, and 3 per order of birth.
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I also had "my own way" of thinking in HS, and actually throughout my school years.
I was always a "Why do I have to do that because you do it?" kind of kid.
If something didn't interest me, I did poorly in that class.
I consider myself UNorthodox in comparison to most people.
In History class, my thoughts on that subject were - why do I need to know about things of the past, that's not gonna help me do the things in life that I want to do later on.
I was never that athletic either, being a skinny kid, yet I was forced to participate in the school gym activities, and outdoor sports, for which I got lousy grades in.
I excelled in Art, Science, Drafting, and the various shop classes. :giggle:
At one point, the administration changed my roster to put me in "typing class".
I bitched and groaned about that, told my mom, and managed to get out of it.
I had no interest of being some kind of "secretary" in the future.
I wanted to use my hands, my brain, to follow my passions.
That, to me, is my definition of Fundamental Freedom.
Think of that song "Born Free" and it's lyrics - that's me.

Granted, I've nothing against sports, excersize, and people who are interested in such things, as long as they don't lose control of things.
However I've seen sports taking control of people, with unattractive consequences.
Gambling, health issues, bodily injuries, wasting money on lottery games, etc.
Those things to me are big moneymakers for the rich owners/investors behind sports.

And being in the professional electronics sales/service industry for all those decades allowed me to continue my passions, my skills, along with the side benefit of helping others enjoy their lives through my work.
That, to me, makes me feel good and gives me a sense of worth in the world.
 
phillymatt53 said:
At one point, the administration changed my roster to put me in "typing class".
I bitched and groaned about that, told my mom, and managed to get out of it.
I had no interest of being some kind of "secretary" in the future.
I wanted to use my hands, my brain, to follow my passions.
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I had two years of typing (helpful for computer usage), placed 1st at district UIL competition, 4th at regional so didn't go to state. I did go to state in science, tied for 4th or 5th IIRC. Also placed at district in journalism headline writing (which I thought was kinda off-the-wall ... the class was small so everyone who didn't outright refuse was tapped for competition in something).
 
trainships said:
I would say the year was 1997 with the introduction of the Neptune washer. Then things really got bad after Whirlpool gained for control of them in 2006. Once the Whirlpool architecture was fully integrated that was the end of Maytag reliability.
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trainships said:
I would say the year was 1997 with the introduction of the Neptune washer. Then things really got bad after Whirlpool gained for control of them in 2006. Once the Whirlpool architecture was fully integrated that was the end of Maytag reliability.
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Whirlpool, once a peer of Maytag and building nearly as good equipment, has systematically destroyed most of the brands we knew. They own nearly all the remaining US brands apart from Speed Queen and Frigidaire, you get more or less the same guts no matter what the sticker on top says. Part of the sacrifice in quality and reliability is due to chasing profits, you can't run any business losing money. The 2nd ingredient is interference by the EPA. Can't use any water, can't use any power, gotta make a profit, so we have plastic transmission gears in a tin housing, with a clock motor to shift into spin, all hanging from a few strands of "baling wire" from a tin housing. As long as they last through the warranty, job done. The Neptune washer and it's "drum splitter" cohort dryer probably was the coffin nail that enabled Whirlpool's purchase of Maytag. Then we got "Maytag" fridges built on a Magic Chef line, about as well made as a 1980's Norge washer.

I just picked up a Speed Queen TR3, built about as well as a Maytag from the 1970's. They have their shortcomings, but I can still have a decent fill, and it's as heavy as a Sherman tank. If I could find a belt-drive Whirlpool that isn't rusting out, that would be a good second choice, but just about all have been sent to China on scrap metal ships.
 
Was the Neptune released to compete with the first Whirlpool Duet? Whirlpool sourced it from Bauknecht in Germany. Was it a market test before investing in a domestic design? Was Maytag trying to swim rather than sink amongst it's competitor?
 
vacerator said:
Was the Neptune released to compete with the first Whirlpool Duet? Whirlpool sourced it from Bauknecht in Germany. Was it a market test before investing in a domestic design? Was Maytag trying to swim rather than sink amongst it's competitor?
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Neptune was in 1997. The WP Duet was in 2001 (and KM HE3).
 
Maytag load sensor agitator with orbital transmission is a superior washing action to the old power fin agitator with the Pittman transmission.

Now, if they had just improved the suspension and added three more springs, gotten rid of the off-balance switch, put larger holes in the wash basket and gone to a neutral drain And self leveling rear feet. They actually would’ve had a washing machine worth owning.

Because I’m a technician I’m not worried about ultimate reliability. I always value performance above ultimate reliability and because I’m a technician I am not gonna put up with inferior performing products.

John L
 
Some people can hem and haw all they want about better performing machines, time usually filters out certain designs which have not stood the test of time.

As someone who’s had experience with both the PowerFin and Load Sensor, the PowerFin by far has more aggressive washing action compared to the Load Sensor.

As long as you don’t jam the machine full, won’t have a problem with anything getting damaged. Always utilize the gentle wash with fast spin to make things last an eternity.
 
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kenwashesmonday said:
A Maytag with a pitman transmission and a PowerFin agitator washes well, rinses well, and extracts well. At the same time, it's the most durable washing automatic washing machine ever made.

What's not to like?
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If everyone were like me, the Maytag Dependable Care would be in 90% of all Laundry rooms, OPLs and commercial top applications. There would be agitator variants like the Power Fin, load sensor, ramp and other design variants. Possibly both Pitman and Orbital transmissions based on the model. But the rest like the two transmission options, suspension, seals, cabinet, pump ect would remain unchanged. The motor would be beefed up to around 1 HP high locked torque with a 1.15 service factor and there is physical room in the cabinet to do that. Metal timer, heavy duty 7.5/15 amp inductive make/break switches. Eaton style water valves.

No shorting lid switch, though there might be two lid switches for safety. Control panel design updates of course.
 
I'll say this since it is the forum to say it. One thing I often dream about and persistently fantasize about is walking into a 2025 appliance store with 90% of the top load washers being Dependable Cares with various agitators and control panel designs under various names like Kenmore, Maytag Atlantis, Maytag Performa, Maytag Dependable Care, Magic Chef, Amana, Jenn-Air, Modern-Maid, Caloric, Norge, Sun-Beam, Admiral, Dixie-Narco, Inglis, SunRay ect.

Also Maytag Neptune front loads with EM timer, 2/16 PSC motors, heaters and stainless steel outer tubs.

With few wanting anything else in that vision.

One can dream, but reality sure does hurt. Whirlpool could easily mass produce the Dependable Cares in a state of the art factory, but sadly no one is demanding it in large enough numbers to make that a reality. If people only knew, if people only had self preservation.
 
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I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.
 
So....
I'm learning about those nicknames for some washer parts...
So... my washer's got that "Power Fin" agitator huh?
Nice to know.

Also, is my 1985 A482 considered one of those "Dependable Care" machines?
 
phillymatt53 said:
So....
I'm learning about those nicknames for some washer parts...
So... my washer's got that "Power Fin" agitator huh?
Nice to know.

Also, is my 1985 A482 considered one of those "Dependable Care" machines?
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Absolutely, your 1985 A482 is indeed a dependable care and truly the best, greatest washer ever built. Anything else is throwing your money away. Nothing will outlast it or take better care of your clothes. Or rinse just as nicely.

It is very painful for me that the dependable cares were discontinued. When I learned that they were officially no more I knew the appliance industry had officially become a lost cause. I remember reading the discussions on here 10 years ago with members saying how Whirlpool might mass produce the DC right before the buyout. If everyone was like me that would have been a reality.
 
bajaespuma said:
I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.
Click to expand...


I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.


This is also an example of exactly how and why Maytag went under. People saw giant tubs, plentiful cycles and fancy styling at a reasonable looking price and bought them without hesitation. Only to then become outraged when the house filled with smoke or water 3 years latter. Word spread, Maytag lost sales, it was over.

I remember telling them that not all Maytag appliances were bad, the genuine dependable cares were still the best out there but nobody was willing to listen. Everyone's thinking was binary, all or nothing. Either all Maytags were good or all Maytags were bad. No grey scale reasoning or anything in between. And we all know that line of thinking isn't just centered around appliances. Back then people not only had zero technical reasoning but also seemed to be afraid of what the parts looked like inside a machine. In advertising, in literature, in sales, ect there was a complete technical blackout beside Maytag's clear front DC panel. And this arrogance in people to reject any depth beyond the visible surface. 'I don't care what a center switch thing is'.


Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.
 
Chetlaham said:
I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.


This is also an example of exactly how and why Maytag went under. People saw giant tubs, plentiful cycles and fancy styling at a reasonable looking price and bought them without hesitation. Only to then become outraged when the house filled with smoke or water 3 years latter. Word spread, Maytag lost sales, it was over.

I remember telling them that not all Maytag appliances were bad, the genuine dependable cares were still the best out there but nobody was willing to listen. Everyone's thinking was binary, all or nothing. Either all Maytags were good or all Maytags were bad. No grey scale reasoning or anything in between. And we all know that line of thinking isn't just centered around appliances. Back then people not only had zero technical reasoning but also seemed to be afraid of what the parts looked like inside a machine. In advertising, in literature, in sales, ect there was a complete technical blackout beside Maytag's clear front DC panel. And this arrogance in people to reject any depth beyond the visible surface. 'I don't care what a center switch thing is'.


Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.
Click to expand...
If there's a $5 "spiff" on a particular turd, I know salesmen who'll flog that baby to the bitter end, no matter how bad it is.
 
bajaespuma said:
I remember when my sister's A512 bit the dust and she asked me about a replacement. I told her not to buy another Maytag because they were inferior iterations of what was once Norge. She went ahead and bought one anyway and was angry when she had to replace it in a couple of years. It's always amazed me how many friends and family who know that I am something of an appliance connoisseur, ask me for my advice and then go ahead and buy the first piece of crap that some salesman or some ignorant friend recommends.

It pisses me off to the point where I don't give solicited advice to people anymore. I tell them it'spointless anyway these days because it seems that all the white goods have been dumbed-down and manufactured with planned obsolescence. And I don't know anyone, including me, that would spend 4K on a Miele "Little Giant". I wonder if Asko stuff is still good. Even Miele has made a dumbed-down line for clueless American consumers. I tell people that if you get 7 years out of thousand dollar + appliances they should be pleasantly surprised.

I loved and revered Maytag appliances until they went to the Center-dial washers with the gold-toned control panels with the dumbed-down bleach "dispenser". I don't think those were bad machines (and the SOH dryers were maybe an improvement on the HOH's) but they represented the beginning of the end of greatness.
Click to expand...
I kindly beg to differ, the Maytag HOH dries blankets more evenly than the SOH since the SOH has a tendency to ball things up. Since I’ve replaced the thermostats on my Maytag HOH franken dryer, is actually fairly quick and gentle. Even put in a 180F thermostat in for the high limit safety thermostat awhile back for experimenting purposes, dried a large load of towels quite fast, the drying speed was on par with a Maytag SOH.

With some tweaking and so forth, Maytag HOH’s can actually be quite fast.
 
Chetlaham said:
I understand your anger. It is very reasonable.

This is an example of having blind faith in authority. Thinking that an appliance salesperson has somehow access superior knowledge, a better education and wide reaching experience when often for them it is just a boring job to make money for their executives while for you Bajaespuma it is a life passion that comes from the heart. Few appliance sales people service what they sell. Few sales people own the store. Small local stores stood by what they sold having a reputation to protect, but major retailers essentially put them out of business.

Fascinating how mass ignorance can be engineered so successfully. But people voted for the lowest cost average with the largest tub with the fewest rumors of breakdowns and the race to the bottom was in full motion.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is the reality that the world is having to deal with.
It's like the corporations involved are some sort of bizarre evil devils trying to make people nuts, and brainwash them into crippled puppets with little to no powers to do anything but comply.
And on top of that, having to keep putting money out for yet another crappy, mediocre appliance.
I've joked on occasion and said that it seems we're living in some form of "The Twilight Zone", but truth be told, the state that we're in isn't far off.

I sensed this coming, years ago, when us guys at the small but busy repair shop started to get products in for repairs that wern't that old, or poorly designed, as opposed to "vintage" products.
And for us in that small neighborhood shop, it became increasingly difficult to render service on these "new" products.
Some parts were only available through the manufacturers, and at high costs, including shipping.
We knew our days were numbered.
This is why during the last 15 years, I undertook to advertizing repairs on vintage equipment, which gained us a foothold on keeping busy and food on our tables.
But sadly, the owner took ill, heart problems, and I had to manage the place, cut some employees, and pray that I could make it to retirement age.

Thank you, Big Box Stores, for forcing me to deal with this modern technology and the stress that comes with it.
 

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