1952 refrigerator repair - please advise!

[stan]

If you need Freon???

Have you checked to see if its getting cold? I have a way older fridge than yours, that did have to be recharged. The outfit that I used was Cooper & Hawinkins Eng Inc phone 510-845-4225 out of Berkeley Ca. They were very nice and recharged the old girl with a refrigerant called 409A, a freon substitute used here in California as a replacement. It only need 6 ounces of this to fill it! yours may need about the same? You could try calling them and see if they can recommend someone in your area! Or maybe they have a branch down there. I paid $160.00 for them to come and recharge last year! Its been working perfect since. Dont give up just yet! Hope this helps

 

[58limited]

Melissa, mine does not sound like that. I would have it checked to see if it needs a freon charge.

 

I bought my GE Combo in 1996 at an auction and it ran fine for the next three years. I moved and had to place it in storage for 5 months and it wouldn't cool. I had it recharged by an appliance repairman. The fridge now works fine during normal on/off cycling, but I still have a problem: when I loose power for a day or more, it looses its charge. The fridge takes about 10oz of freon to charge. It can cost $120.00 to $160.00 for the service call and freon. I have charged mine myself the last few times - I was given a partial 20 lb cylinder of freon. The last time I charged mine, I took a chance and used Freeze 12, a freon substitute that can be put directly in a freon system without having to flush it out. So far it is working fine.

 

 

 

[combo52]

OLD GE COMBINATION REF

If a refrigerator needs recharging IT HAS A LEAK in the sealed system. Every attempt should made to locate and repair the leak. Few refrigerators will work long or properly if you just try to recharge them, also it is not legal to just recharge them without trying to do a proper repair.

 

[3beltwesty]

So does this unit use Freon 12 or Freon 22?

Normally the patent plate will be marked say X oz R12 or X oz R22.

A unit that is low on gas has a leak; and will run a higher percentage of the time.

Many refrigerators and freezers have long lives if left in one place and when moved the shocks tweak the closed Freon system and one gets a leak.

 

[3beltwesty]

In proper repairs one finds the Freon leak. The tech removes all the Freon; then pressurizes it with Nitrogen, and often uses an ultrasonic microphone to hear the leak. If big the leak may spit out the telltale dye they often use to find leaks. The leak is then fixed; then they recheck again since there maybe many leaks. Once are the leaks are fixes they pull a deep vacuum and hold it there to boil off water vapor. Then the unit is charged with Freon again.

 

[melissa]

it says freon 12.

here's everything the plate says in case it sheds any additional light

AH103AA16 (STAMPED AA1363369)
primary system refrigerant content 10.5 oz freon 12
test pressure 150lb low side 202lb high side
1/4HP motor 115VAC 50-60cy fl-am 3.3-5.5

i think i'll try that service company and maybe they'll be able to fix the leak & charge it up. $160 I can do since I got the fridge cheap.

58 Limited - the interesting thing about this situation is that it worked fine until it was unplugged. Then 7 years later when plugged into the same spot, it didn't work. there was no movement to damage it. but who knows. 7 years is a long time I guess!

 

[melissa]

bent coil sadness

When I looked from another angle, it looks like the first condenser coil is bent - i have a hunch this is very bad news for my fridge. I imagine this is pretty much impossible to repair.

Any chance it was designed with a bent first coil?

58 limited, I looked closely at your pix and i didn't notice a bent coil. Since your pix is at a slightly different angle that mine it's a bit hard to tell.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sanford...hkey=Gv1sRgCJiZ8NOlnoT7KA#5600690781976258098

 

[melissa]

bent coil sadness pix

here's a pix of the bent coil

 

[rp2813]

That's just a cooling fin for the compressor and has nothing to do with refrigerant.  That bent section isn't causing any problems.

 

As I stated above and has been repeated since, if refrigerant is being lost, there's a leak, and you need to have someone find the leak and fix that or it's not worth bothering to recharge it.

[this post was last edited: 4/28/2011-14:33]

 

[goatfarmer]

If it does need a compressor, one can be retrofitted to fit, but the cost would be prohibitive. Get an expert to give it the once over before you make any decisions.

 

[58limited]

If the repairman determines that there is a leak and it is not found by the compressor or is not the condenser coils, try this: A common place for a leak is the tubing at the back of the freezer. You can remove the cover on the back of the fridge immediately behind the freezer section. If there is a leak, you will often find oil staining the insulation at the leak site. There are industrial epoxies that can be used to coat over the leak to seal it, after thoroughly cleaning and degreasing the leak site. (Preceding info relayed to me by Mike "Monitor Top" Arnold several years ago.

 

[melissa]

I wanted to thank you all for your help. The refrigerator repair guy came out to diagnose my fridge (40$ for the diagnosis).

He said it had a freon leak, as most of you said. He couldn't tell where it was leaking, so he said it would be a waste to put freon in. He said I could repair the leak & refill it for $400, another $100 to repair the door seals. He said if I don't repair the door seals, the fridge would need to be defrosted every couple weeks.

So bottom line - to get it running $500. Plus about $400 to paint it. I decided to wait a little longer to see if I can find another (working) vintage fridge and for now use this fridge to decorate my garage.

What's nice about this fridge is it has all the parts, drawers, butter tray, etc and it has a separate freezer section (which I need because the little ice chests are just too small for my family.)

Alas... my dreams of a vintage fridge to match my stove are put on hold again!

 

[rp2813]

If there's any way to get a 2nd opinion, I would try that.  $400 seems high just for a leak repair and re-charge of 10 oz of freon.

 

Door gaskets may not need replacing.  On my '57 Combination I simply removed them and re-installed them turned around so that the door side ended up on the hinged side and vice versa.  As long as the gasket material makes contact with the cabinet frame, that's all that's necessary.

 

If you run out of options, just be patient.  If you find another GE Combination fridge of similar vintage that works fine, then at least you have all of the interior parts in case some are missing on the next fridge.

 

[austinado16]

Just my 2 cents worth.....

Here's my opinion about wanting, keeping, having, using, vintage appliances. I'm speaking from the position of, I have an entire home full of vintage appliances that we use every day, many of which I've restored.

It takes a certain amount of money to rescue and be able to use dependably, a vintage anything. It also takes a certain amount of money to use "modern" stuff.

When I look at the opportunity to own (restore/rebuild/repair) and use vintage appliances, I look at it this way; I can own a modern fridge for probably $600-$2,000 depending on the model I buy. It will probably be dead in 10 years, and within 5 years, something major will probably fail...repeatedly (I watch my wife's parents go through this time, and time again, on every new wiz-bang major appliance they've purchased in the 17yrs we've been married.

So I think to myself (for example with my 1952 Philco Refrigerator) is buying this use for $150, paying $300 for paint and bodywork (I switched the door to open from the left) and another couple hundred in chrome plating and a new door seal.....is that a better deal then buying some run of the mill modern fridge? Well, hands down, yes it is. In fact, IMO, it's cheap. Plus, I get to own a cool fridge that blows people's minds when they come over.

I've done this time and time again with all our appliances. Never once has it been a let down, a money pit, or a mistake......dishwasher, laundry machines, microwave, you name it.

Needless to say, if I wanted your fridge, I'd step right up and get it repaired. Would I repaint? It would depend on condition and whether or not the existing paint would buff out to a decent shine. Would I do the door gaskets? Depends on condition. Close a sheet of paper (or a dollar bill) in the doors and then see if you can slide it all around the door. If it's difficult to slide, you know you have a good seal. Products like Simple Green do wonders to clean door gaskets....so does 3M adheasive remover.

And not to sound crass, but a lot of people get into the mindset that they can drag home cool old stuff, for free, or on the cheap, and then get to use it...for free or on the cheap. Rarely does this play out. Sometimes "you" get lucky and score, but most times, you're dragging home junk that needs a certain amount of money snd time invested.

 

[goatfarmer]

Depending on where the leak is located, $400.00 might not be a bad price. Finding it might be the hardest part.
One other thing, if it took seven years to leak out, it's tiny, and might prove impossible to find.

If that pic in the first post is the actual 'fridge, I think the paint looks fine like it is.

 

[stan]

second opinion

For sure!! If the leak is that small what's the big deal about filling it, and letting run for another 7 years ?? LOL The replacement freon they used in mine was 409A. Think it has some sealing ability in it? They never found the leak after filling it with this. So if it was me, I 'd get another estimate from someone else. Dont think you should give up!...Yet!

 

[rp2813]

There's Your Answer

Self-sealing refrigerant.  I would be all over that as a solution to the problem.

 

[stan]

sealing

I'm not sure if the 409 has a sealing ability, thats why I put a question mark after that sentence! Thats what I thought the refrigeration man said. All I know, is mine had run low on refrigerant, (freon 12) and the 409A is what was used to refill. So my old must have gone somewhere? and the new is still there and cooling, and has not come out?? Yet! So you tell me?

 

[3beltwesty]

Normally to find a leak a higher tech guy:

(1) Pressurizes the system with Nitrogen; and uses an ultrasonic leak detector;

(2) or they use a tad of freon and mostly Nitrogen and use a Freon stiffer.

(3) Or a leak detector color dye is used.

The "test pressure 150lb low side 202lb high side " on the label allow one to pressurize the system up to 150 psi; about 10 atmospheres. An ultrasonic leak detector "listens" above the normal human audio range and down converts it to normal human audio range. Leaks typically make a decent about of noise in the ultrasonic "sound" region. The ultrasonic sensor allows a high tech service guy find the leak.

Call around and find a service guy who has higher tech stuff like an ultrasonic leak detector.

 

[3beltwesty]

Long ago one just added some dye and pressurized the system with Freon to find the leak. Another 4th method was one used a torch and the leak made the flame change color!

Today Freon is costly, plus the waste of purging Freon has fines. Like road speed limits; nobody breaks these laws.! Basically laws allow ones fellow tech a rewards (10k+) if one is releasing Freon in a wastefull tests.

It is quite common for techs to quote high to fix a leak.

 

[dcraven]

Resolution?

I'm curious as to your resolution after 3 years. I recently acquired the same fridge though not as nice on the outside as yours. Mine is making a similar noise when plugged in and isn't cooling. I found someone who will take a look and he said if it was low on coolant the compressor could make more noise, or the compressor could be bad or a combination of both. I was going to get him more information about the fridge and see what a service call costs.

 

[rp2813]

If memory serves me, melissa moved on to another fridge and there was no resolution.

 

[dcraven]

Can a fridge that's otherwise unuseable be converted to one that would use a more modern compressor so that it could be serviced? Is there online information that tells you how to do so? I've been able to find out a little bit from reading discussion groups. Apparently there's concern about plugging the capillaries when using 134a (assuming it's a 134a compressor, dryer & filter). I see that at least one company out there does this though I'm certain it'd be out of my price range and that they're not in the business of telling you how to do it yourself. http://www.antiquevintageappliances.com/refrigerator_conversions4050.htm

I've done brazing for plumbing and lots of welding, never any HVAC type work. As least if it used 134a anyone could buy the refrigerant. Testing for leaks, making good joints, selecting the right size compressor, having the right parts and putting them together properly all probably makes this a job for professionals only. I have repaired several modern fridges, but those were simple repairs ie. starter relays, replacing defrost heaters, not anything on the sealed system.

I'm going to have a professional come out for a service call to see if they can say what's wrong with it and what my options are. I'll also talk with a friend who does HVAC work to see what he thinks and would charge.

 

[rp2813]

Retrofitting with a modern system

It has been discussed here in the past, and unless/even though it's a DIY project, it will be expensive.

 

I suggest you start a new thread on this subject.  Many here don't even bother to open ancient threads that have been resurrected, so you may not be reaching the people you need to.

 

[travis]

Replacing a compressor

It's possible to replace a vintage compressor with a modern replacement, but it's not necessarily cheaper to do it yourself. By the time you buy all the tools and supplies to do so, you might as well find an HVAC tech to do it for you.

Though the site below is primarily devoted to monitor tops, there are a few knowledgable fridge buffs there.

My favorite monitor top is undergoing open heart surgery now. I had the motor rewound and it's going back with 134a. None of this custom repair is easy or cheap, so accept that fact before proceeding.

http://monitortop.freeforums.net/thread/2/forum-dedicated-monitor-top-refrigerator

 

[melissa]

UPDATE - Wanted V-handle or Wonder Kitchen

The update to my first fridge saga ... I gave up. The repairman diagnosed it as too expensive to repair. Then about a year later, I found the exact same fridge in working condition. It wasn't as pretty though. So I took all the pretty parts off the first fridge, put them on the new fridge had the repairman back to give me his seal of approval. I had 1 working kitchen fridge. And I had 1 fridge in the garage that I used as a tool cabinet.

But then I lost my fridge in a house fire : ( I didn't even get any of the parts out to at least put back into the old broken fridge.

So now it's been two years, and I'm on the hunt again for a new 'vintage' fridge.

Please let me know if you spot any wonder kitchens or v-handles out west!

 

[vacerator]

Another option

and a more energy efficient one is to buy a retro style Big Chill or Elmira Stove works refrigerator. They look very similar, and come in turquoise, yellow, etc., etc.
Oh, and those curved kitchen cabinets also come from a few Italian makers as well as Poggenphol.

 

[bootsnslicks14]

@melissa: A fire is one of my worst nightmares. I could only imagine what you went through. Did you know or find out what the cause of the fire was?