1955 GE COMBO Restoration

[jetcone]

Yes John

those 3 belt machines are workhorses. I remember falling for your black undercounted machine years and years ago. I had to have one in my kitchen!! And you gave me the first avocado one made. Because you said it was the first I can't bring myself to paint it black but maybe this year--charcoal perhaps??

 

But those shaded pole motors are used extensively in Sub Zero refrigerators and they run for decades, so what gives? Why would Sub Zero use them continually if the design wasn't sturdy like the "63 Frigidaire washers?

 

 

 

[jetcone]

Yes John

those 3 belt machines are workhorses. I remember falling for your black undercounted machine years and years ago. I had to have one in my kitchen!! And you gave me the first avocado one made. Because you said it was the first I can't bring myself to paint it black but maybe this year--charcoal perhaps??

 

But those shaded pole motors are used extensively in Sub Zero refrigerators and they run for decades, so what gives? Why would Sub Zero use them continually if the design wasn't sturdy like the "63 Frigidaire washers?

 

 

 

[combo52]

Shaded Pole Motors

It is not so much the motor being SP but little things like the pump seal design, also the one on your combo draws over 100 watts and it can run fairly hot and this impacts bearing life.

The SP fan motors used in most Frost Free refrigerators at one time can easily last for decades, but they are grossly inefficient when you compare power consumed vs work done this is why very few are used any longer in new refs and freezers. I have replaced all the fan motors in my refs and freezes with the new ECM motors with great results. Often the SP motors use 10 times as much power as the new ECM motors, I am surprised with your interest in LED lighting you haven't done this in your SZs. In the refrigerators this saved power really counts because the compressor does not have to run as much to remove all the extra heat that the SP motors produce.

In the past ten years I have cut my annual electric consumption at home in 1/2 without giving up any comfort, convenience or walking around in the dark, LOL.

 

[tolivac]

Manufactueres LOVE the SP motors becuase they are cheap to make and buy.But--Yes they are inefficient.Note how the motor has a little tin fan on it to help keep it cool.Remember playing around with these as a kid-take em apart and feed the coil with DC and you have a cool little electromagnet.

 

[jetcone]

Do these ECM

motors have their own electronics on board so that they are plug and play?

 

And where do I get two for my SZ's?

 

[jetcone]

Water valve rebuild today

All shiny and newish

 

[jetcone]

Also

Repaired the water level connector - looked like it was okay till I touched it and it fell off!

 

[turquoisedude]

It's looking good Jon! You are motivating me to get the 56 Combo out of the Kitchen Centre again...

 

[jetcone]

Yes Paul

get that '56 out and  up and running! I hope to do a water test this week, I have to build a wooden form in order to hold all the components away from the machine. 

 

 

 

[jetcone]

So there seems to be

a problem with the buttons. I powered her up today and everything ran in wash cycle except the WATER HEATER feature the entire machine died once I pushed that button. And in the DRY portion it also died completely.

 

It was dramatic I was headed to a water test but no! Back to the wiring diagram.

 

 

 

[turquoisedude]

Jon, did you blow a fuse when the heaters kicked in? My first thought here that the heater relay may be doing bad things...

 

[jetcone]

I was wondering that

too Paul, I didn't blow a fuse but was wondering if the heat relay was dead. But would that also shut the motor down, you would think it would just stop the heat and continue to tumble no?
When I recycled it the next time, not even the water valve would energize.

 

Its a puzzle. I need to scan the schematic so I can study it in detail.

 

 

 

[alr2903]

Jetcone,I hope it is something simple. I am enjoying your thread. Maybe this malfunction is what took it out of service and preserved it until now.
alr

 

[turquoisedude]

Oh, that is odd... Jon, was the drive motor running normally when you did the test after the water heater button incident? If the water valve was not energized, I guess you were not able to determine if the timer was still getting power or not...

If you have the GE charts showing the switch contacts being made at various phases of the cycle, you should be able to figure it out. Unfortunately when I did the same exercise I traced the problems I'd been having to a bad timer contact... Switch 'F' was the one that was the problem (and it's still not 100%) on mine!

Never a dull moment!!

 

[turquoisedude]

Jon, had another thought: You mentioned that you found a bad connection on the water level control - the control feeds power into the timer, controlling a number of components including the water inlet valves. Check the connections and the actual terminals - the wheels fell off that early '56 combo I found this summer when the water level control went bad on me (one connection literally snapped off from inside the control!)

 

[jetcone]

Paul

I spoke too soon yesterday I haven't checked the circuit breaker yet - but I will also sound the water level switch too. Combos are wiggly little things because it's two machines in one .

 

[jetcone]

Okay Paul

I followed through on your input, the CB is NOT blown repeat NOT blown. The mystery deepens--TO DOCTRINE !

 

 

 

[philr]

Jon,

I don't know if you checked inside the timer but in Paul's 1956, some of the contacts wouldn't close, probably because they've been forced to stay open for a long time by the timer cam. We had to bind them to allow them to close again. 

 

[jetcone]

Phil thank you

i'll check that tonight!!

Holla She gonna rock!

 

[jetcone]

Well here is the first

major problem- someone bojacked the wiring in the deep past for some reason and wired together the timer circuit TAN to the PushButton/Water Level switch RED-BLACK.

 

 

 

 

[jetcone]

take a look

at the wiring diagram if you look TAN comes off the Timer Motor directly to the Thermostat and RED BLACK off the switch goes through the timer block to the water switch. Bojack Wiring I say!

 

 

[jetcone]

Somebody

was trying to power the safety thermostat and regular thermostat through the switch button. Why ?? I need to figure out what that switch button actually controls.

 

 

 

 

[turquoisedude]

Hey Jon, if it helps, in the 56 red-black should be coming from the door switch and should be bringing power directly from the connector block. I inadvertently switched the red and red-black wires in my initial rewiring job, thus bypassing the door switch!

This is really interesting - the tan wire to the time darn near drove me crazy when I was attempting to get the combo running the first time around when I had NO wiring diagram or a service manual. I could not get power to blasted timer, so my 'Canadian Bojacques' wiring technique took power from the water level control to the timer. Not pretty but it did work!

All that being said, I will second what Phil said about a timer contact staying open.. The contacts supplying power to the timer will 'float' between' two internal switches - in my case the timer had frozen open and the switch hitting the tan wire was not making contact. It's actually still an issue with mine and I'll be attacking that after the holidaze...

Feel free to call me this weekend about this - I could write a book about GE combo issues now, I swear!!

 

[combo52]

Dead GE Combo

Jon Jon Jon, you should have never pushed the water heat with no water in the machine, LOL. That wiring splice you found was a field modification that was covered in a service pointer dated ,June 58, LOL In any event do you also have schematic wiring diagram that shows actual current flow ?.

In any event Paul and Jon I am just going to have to come up there [ when things thaw out ] and fix both of these machines. GE combos were one of the simplists combos electrically although GE often did not wire things in a straight forward way like you might expect, so it does leave you scratching your head a little wondering why they did something the way they did.

John L.

 

[turquoisedude]

Hey John, I call you on that 'threat' to come up and visit! Maybe you can finally show me how to get the Inglis running again... LOL

 

[toploader55]

OOOOOOOhhhhhhhhh

May I be the In House Chef during that visit ???

I would love to cook and watch !!!

 

[whirlaway]

A Wizard!

John is wizard,there are very few people left like him in the world of mechanics.Whats the next generation gonna do? I have a mechanic like that,he works on my old mopars,I dont know what Im gonna do when he retires.I would really like sometime to get John to rebuild my old frog-eye,then it will probably last me the rest of my life.I need my 54 Imperial gone over good also before the other mechanic retires. We live in such a throw away world today! Merry Christmas All ! Bobby

 

[jetcone]

Okay very strange results today

I know:

-Once I pushed the WATER HEAT button the machine went dead

-That the push button switches were badly seized and have since lubricated and checked continuity- it works now

-still no power to machine

-CB is on

-testing now I find one leg to ground is reading 240V and the other 0 _THATS NOT NORMAL!

-I found someone had cross wired the legs to the heater relay so that the black leg from supply was energizing NOT the gray to the motor and Black to safety thermo but the yellow leg of the heater coils -when on the diagram it shows the yellow leg from supply should make to the yellow leg of the heater coils.

- corrected that to match the wiring diagram

- know I have continuity from the Door Switch to Timer Control, Water Valve, Motor, and she is still dead 

-tested the supply cord it has normal continuity

- need to check the belt switch BUT from what I read it only comes into play during the dry cycle not the wash cycle so it shouldn't be a factor, need to check the scissors mechanism maybe i tripped it or knocked a lead off?

 

 

 

[turquoisedude]

Jon, yes, by all means check that unbalance switch, too. THAT little devil was what kept the 56 from spinning! The belt switch kept it from drying, but that's a whole other matter!

 

[jetcone]

Okay progress

I traced the odd 204 V one leg other leg 0 reading back to the internal wiring of my supply plug, 2 wires had come out and joined inside the plug. Once that was repaired she fired right up normal.

She has blacktimermotor death - not unexpected!!

 

All functions into dry work except the heater elements and heater relay. It looks like the belt switch controls the heater relay only not the motor and doctrine states she will keep tumbling even if the heat fails so that clothes won't get scorched as the elements cool.

Isolating and powering the heater relay I find it works.

I took the elements out of the circuit and tested they both have continuity - good!

So I have to assume the thermostat is to blame for not powering the elements. Bugger all. Have not worked on a thermostat before.

 

Otherwise all functions are go.

 

[this post was last edited: 12/15/2013-16:57]