1978 Norge bearings? Seal?

[akronman]

troubles

6 holes versus 4. My outer tub and original support is a 4 hole unit. New one is six.  I'd sure rather use the new one, but I doubt like hell I should drill new holes in the outer tub. If it was only metal, I would in a second, but porcelain???? 6 holes at 60 degree spacing versus 4 holes at 90 degrees means only two match up. I will gladly listen to any suggestions, and many thanks.

 

Also----after breaking one self-tapping screw in the old 4 hole support, I one-at-a-time heated the bolts, rubber mallet smacked them tighter a few times, then looser, back and forth. 2 came out marvelously. So that's a new trick from you guys, thank you. But the final one snapped quite easily. So my original 4 hole tub support has 2 screws out, 2 broken down in the holes. Frankly, if I drill them out, there's quite a bit of clearance beneath the hub to install thru-bolts, washers and nuts on the bottom.

 

[akronman]

more

This shot shows the hub with that bad bolt. Of course, my first step will be attempting an E-Z-Out removal, we'll see.

 

[combo52]

Norge Rebuild

I would see no problem drilling holes in a porcelain coated steel tub if that seems the best way to go, just mark them and tap with a center punch lightly and drill away.

 

[akronman]

spin tub

Here, instead, is the inner tub new parts. My tub has 3 holes. While the cork and foam/plastic gaskets have 4 holes, the genuine metal tub support is drilled for either 3 or 4 holes, so all will be well there.

 

My Norge(Fedders) is 1978, Repair Clinic.com is where I got the PN#La-2009 for the overall kit, listed as Crosley/Magic Chef. Somewhere there is likely a more exact PN, but this Norge LWA2065BOO (or leaving off the last few digits, etc) has never come up with a listing on over a dozen websites, so I just bought the only kit I could find, what the hell.  The Repair Clinic site let me type in "norge washer bearing seal," to get this LA-2009 kit, but no, it never recognized the actual model #. Seems as though Norge switched the hole count, but the various bearings and washers and seals are all the same.

 

I have 4 other brand machines currenlty in the line-up, so there's no rush here, I will gladly slowly wait and see your suggestions. This is my one and only Norge, I want to do this RIGHT and ONCE.

 

I have a 1970 Norge Repair Master, helpful enough but doing a 6 hole versus 4 hole conversion/mismatch is pretty much for this website's ideas, not for Norge.

 

Also, while it's all apart, any suggestions on oiling/lubing lower down the entire shaft? Bearings near the baseplate? Brake components? The tranny works fine, I won't touch it. The suspension is great, it used to go 640 RPMs on spin and never a trouble. It will be a great loud beast of a machine again soon.

 

Another ALSO-----no bolts came with this new kit. IS Home Depot gonna have these self-tapping fine pitch bolts for cutting into the aluminum flange holes?

 

[akronman]

hey John

John---you are one of the all time pro's here, drilling new holes would solve tons of other issues, THANK YOU.  The actual hole size in the aluminum hub is smaller also, likely one exact bolt size smaller. So I will find and buy the correct diameter and depth self-tapping bolts before I start any drilling.

 

[kb0nes]

I wouldn't count on Home Depot having anything odd, typically its just standard poor quality hardware that they stock and always in packages sized one less then what you need! These days I get all my hardware (and lots of other stuff) from McMaster-Carr.

Personally I hate self-tapping screws, they are just chosen to cut costs. In this case I'd simply tap the holes and use a standard machine screw. You will get better threads this way and you have less difficulty in finding just the right screws.

As a follow along to the stuck screw topic, one great way to prevent stuck threads in the future is the judicious use of Locktite. A single drop of 242 Blue Locktite fills the voids in the thread helix with plastic eliminating any future corrosion. Years later screws just twist out cleanly. Added bonus that the threads are sealed from leakage and vibration loosening too. Better living through chemistry!

 

[cfz2882]

pump impeller

check the pump for broken impeller fins-that style of norge pump is very prone to fins getting stripped off the impeller.

 

[norgechef]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but..

Often when the tub seal and bearings begin failing it will allow water to leak into the transmission which makes the transmission lock up. I have seen this happen many times in Maytag/Amana searcy washers and i suppose it could happen to other washing machines as well. I also notice that when a Norge/Magic Chef washer breaks it is usually the transmission or the bearings that go since those are their weak points as they get older.

 

[akronman]

more

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Upon closer inspection, the brand new 6 hole outer tub flange presents issues. The holes are on a smaller diameter circle than the existing ones, and the bolts would cut into the lip on that inner edge of the tub. Also, the raised portion of the new flange is a smaller diameter than the tub opening, I'd create a real mis-match trying to install that "other Norge" flange. And all those extra holes and cutting into that strengthening lip would weaken the tub. And there’s an old plastic retaining ring for holding down the cork gaskets, it wouldn’t fit either and the new 6 hole model didn’t come with one. A wide variety of reasons are pushing me back to the original 4 hole flange/bearing support.

 

 

[akronman]

more again

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So back to the original 1978 outer tub bearing/flange/support. It took 3 weeks and tons of PB blaster, and then a buddy visiting who still talks about his 1968 Mustang 302 Engine Rebuild (Mostly Caps) and couldn’t resist a challenge to finally get the retaining ring out.

 

So now it’s out but of course the bearing is still in there. I’m doing more PB Blaster and hammering away but am about ready for a professional. Between pressing out this old bearing and pressing in the new, and then drilling out those 2 of 4 holes where the bolts snapped, shouldn’t a decent auto mechanic shop be able to do this work in quick time, relatively easy?

 

Look at how horrid that 35 year old bearing is, yowza.

 

 

Webmaster Robert’s 1964 rebuild, linked above, shows using epoxy and various sealants to make up for the fact that the cheap pot metal is pitted/corroded nasty, I think overall that is the way to go for now.

 

 

[akronman]

Bearings

Storms knocked out phone and web 2 weeks ago and ATT sucks for repairs, but here's the latest:

 

I took the hub with the old bearing to 3 auto mechanics. 2 said they wouldn't try out of fear of breaking the pot metal, they are used to hardened steel for auto brakes/rotors. Third guy said 50/50 chance, I said try it. He successfully swapped out the bearing, and also drilled out the 2 broken bolts. Yippee!!!!!

 

I wire brushed all over the place, got all old cork off the thing. You can see there are 2 weep holes, and that the very innermost ring, just above the retaining ring, has some dings in it, not a perfect surface.

 

[akronman]

Robert 1964, Mark 1978

The 2 top pics are stoolen from WebMaster Robert's 1964 rebuild of a Norge, referenced above. Bottom 2 shots are mine. I trust Robert's assembly and will get some good epoxy/sealant over the wekend, but I don't understand it all.  If I epoxy that ridge where the copper/brass cone sits( innermost blue epoxy) , it will prevent water inside the cone from getting to those weep holes. Also, shouldn't I keep the weep holes open, very careful with epoxy?

 

I will definitely epoxy the outboard edges per Robert's photos, but am asking for an explanation of how this cone works, what its purpose is.

 

[akronman]

Ceramic seal

I am feeling extremely confident since all the origianl cast parts are re-usable, and the seals are all brand new. This is the spin tub hub with the upper ceramic seal removed. My strong guess is epoxy exerywhere the seal seats in it? I know to keep the mating ceramic faces spotlessly clean.

 

Also, the closer I get to re-assembly, it is seeming smarter and smarter to install both these hubs on the tranny/shaft/post before I re-install the 2 tubs. That way I can see everything, epoxy everything, etc. How tightly do I mate these surfaces, how much compression on that spring/ceramic/mating surface?

 

[akronman]

last pic for now

This pic shows more, no epoxy yet. Won't epoxy seal off the outer edge of this cone, keeping any lost water inside on the bearings?

I want to do all this RIGHT and ONCE, and I appreciate all advice. I have meant to document and post all, but AT&T SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! I lost 3 days of work to waiting for them to no-show already. Day 4 is rescheduled for Monday, wish me luck.

 

Dumb question:  Does this cone form a grease cup around the shaft? Am I to fill it with White Litium grease? Is that the purpose?

 

[combo52]

Brass colored Cone

Is a slinger, it rides on the main shaft and slings any little bit of water that leaks past the seal and the cone then slings the water over the bearing so it can { in theory ] exit through the weep holes.

 

[akronman]

more

No epoxy yet, but just fiiting things together, it seems like I am quite wrong above. The brass/copper cone is pictured wrong. It should be like a bowl, not a hat, so the center of the spin hub sits down against it, right on top of the bearing, and therefore the 2 entire hubs and seals all meat properly for compression sealing. Agreed?Sort of seems like then any stray water drops would be spun up and out to those weep holes. Proper assembly therefore will compress those ceramic/spring seals, I can now see how it properly works.

 

Also, various pics way up the chain show some white plastic gasketing, and some cork. With the mismatch between various items from a  different Norge, I was able to cut both spin tub gaskets to fit, and will epoxy/RTV/seal both sides during assembly. However, I will have to cut new ones for the outer tub, both sides. Where does one get thin sheet cork? All will have epoxy, but I want the cork also.  During dissassembly of the 35 year old machine, everything looked like cork, not whatever that plastic foam sheet is.

 

[akronman]

Paging Robert and John Combo

Guys---Pros---Read a bit above and compare that brass cone ring. Roberts pics show it up, like a hat or a tepee letting out smoke. So far, with no epoxy or permanent installation, my "fit-together" strongly suggests that it should be down like a bowl or funnel. Then the inner tub flange screws down and seats immediately against the innermost brass flat spot, which is pressing directly on to the bearing itself.

Please check photos---I unfortunately have storm/tornado/ATT&T troubles and can't log on at home--but will checkback before final assembly------

 

Horrible photo here, but it shows my belief that the center of the ring is down directly against the bearing, not up.

 

[combo52]

Brass colored Cone

I have never seen one installed downward, but I can't really tell from your pictures and maybe without seeing it in person.

 

[akronman]

Hey John

Keep checking back, I will post crystal clear pics in a few days, I need your advice. I will also post pics of the old cone, very different.

Thanks

Mark

 

[norgeway]

I bet you one thing!

You aint never had a washer that will wash a filth big load clean as that thing will!!John may be right, he knows about a million times more about washers than I do, but I still wouldnt let that brake stop a spinning load of clothes, just my opinion.

 

[norgeway]

LOL!

Filth big load....Well, I used to be able to spell!!!

 

[dnastrau]

Rusty hub/bearing

If you haven't gotten the rusty bearing out of the hub, I would go to an auto parts store or hardware store and pick up some Evapo-Rust. I'll bet if you soak that hub/bearing for a few days in Evapo-Rust, it will dissolve the rust and make it easier to remove the snap ring and bearing. I have used it with great results in the past, but it works best if you keep the rusty part completely submerged in the solution.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

 

[akronman]

Better pics

John--Here's some better pics----and I did a complete assembly this morn---this ring HAS to go down like a bowl, or the mating ceramic/graphite faces are 1/2" apart. First pic is the underside of the spin tub hub. The seal isn't yet pressed in, take note of the length of the overall shaft

 

[akronman]

next

here's the old versus new ring. Old would have ended 1/2 way across the bearing face. New one --like a hat fits sort of snug against the shaft about a half inch up from the bearing. Or, installed down like a bowl, sits on the innermost bearing horizontal ring, right against the shaft

 

[akronman]

assembly

heres the assembled shaft, cone installed down against the bearing, all hubs and spanner nuts fitting perfectly. Cone up would leave a 1/2 inch gap between mating surfaces, would not allow spanner nut far enough down shaft to screw on. I see no alternative