1978 Norge bearings? Seal?

[akronman]

last one for now

Here's the splined agitator block. I don't think I have to remove it for the work I'm doing, it can just stay there and be ugly and gross.  Earlier styles used a hexagon block, this is 1978 model with that burpalator which is damn good at filtering.

 

This splined block sits above the water line entirely, and I will actually eventually clean it up(a bit). Is this a case where I should then coat it with a minor amount of white lithium grease or vaseline before re-assembly, to slow down continued corrosion? The picture ain't clear, you've all seen ugly dirty greasy grimy agitator posts before, no new thrills here.

 

[combo52]

Rebuilding The Norge

Congratulations on finding the needed parts, YAY. The basket will come out easily now that the bolts have been removed, an easy way to break it loose from the lower flange is to stand in the wash tub and shift your weight from one side to the other, this usually works very quickly [ If you try this have someone spot for you or hold on to the ceiling joists in the basement so you don't get hurt when it breaks loose ].

 

  I would not put any type of lubricant on the agitator drive block upon reassembly. I would remove it and glass bead to clean and if it is in acceptable condition paint it with some type of coating to minimize further corrosion [ I think it would not be too hard to find this part new and I probably have good used ones if you can't find one ]

 

  Why a 3/4 HP motor? I order to be able to claim 20LB capacity and pass ULs electrical testing the machine had to be able to complete a full wash cycle without the motor going out on overload. And while these were big washers the tub capacity was really only about 15 #s capacity. It was also advertising hype for Montgomery Wards as they were always trying to score points against the leader, Sears Kenmore. But unfortunately the bigger motor only made a fair to poor durability washer even less durable.  The commercial machines never dared to use the 3/4 HP motors and Norge and Wards continued to sell 18# models with the same size tubs equipped with 1/2HP motors.

 

  The very powerful brake assembly these large capacity Norges used could be a trouble spot, but they did not fail because people lifted the lid too often during spin and thus activating the brake. The brake was used to hold the tub stationary during agitation and the constant tugging back and forth on the break arm and its mounting pivot was what destroyed this assembly. You could open the lid when the washer is spinning at full speed hundreds of times and it would never likely hurt the brake assembly, but the washing action especially if the tub is heavily loaded put a much greater strain on the brake parts than breaking ever would.

 

[akronman]

troubles?

Dis-assembly ok until I noticed this: my new outer tub flange has 6 holes, whereas my tub has 4, not good news. Also, the first of these bolts, 3 seconds after setting the camera down, broke about halfway down its hole. So for now, 2 shots of PB Blaster a day for a few days and then a second effort.

 

What is the idea behind heating the bolt with a torch? Never tried, but gladly will.

 

[akronman]

a bit more

Who knows how long this has been like this, seems like it's set too high up, should have been seated. I'll know more once the outer tub is out. No leaks from there ever.

 

[combo52]

Norge Rebuilding Fun

This is why I only ever replaced main bearings and seals in Norge designed and built washers 3 or 4 times [ which was at least two times too many, LOL ] But it can be done and I have great confidence that you will prevail Mark.

 

On a side note I was talking to my friend Bob in Cleveland, Ohio this morning and he has three Norge or Montgomery Wards solenoid brake style washers that are all in good running condition that he wants to get rid of. Mark you may want to get one to fix yours with or if anyone else wants a REAL NORGE call or Email me and I will get you in touch with Bob.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Mark, heat prevents bolt breakage without having to wait like when you use a pb-blaster type oil. I would never consider removing rusty bolts without firing them first with a torch, I've broken way too many that way. The only time I don't use a torch is when there is rubber or plastic parts close by that could be damaged by the heat. Also its good to turn the bolt left a bit and then turn it back to the right, slowly but surely going slightly more to the left each time. Do just keep turning it to the left and then back to the right. This sort of "agitating" the bolt loose is a more gentle way of removing old bolts.

As for the two extra holes, just use two part plumbers epoxy putty to seal up the extra holes and you will be fine as long as the part is otherwise the same.

 

[jetcone]

Robert is right

that is a very good method for dealing with frozen bolts. 2 part epoxy is your friend for life.

 

 

[akronman]

more

well here's where I'm at now---

 

[cuffs054]

Akron, that red stuff is paint, right? Or are you beginning to look pale...

 

[akronman]

not blood

it's a raggy old towel, formerly used to collect drips from the dog's water bowl. It will be in the first load in this Norge when it's running again.

 

[akronman]

troubles

6 holes versus 4. My outer tub and original support is a 4 hole unit. New one is six.  I'd sure rather use the new one, but I doubt like hell I should drill new holes in the outer tub. If it was only metal, I would in a second, but porcelain???? 6 holes at 60 degree spacing versus 4 holes at 90 degrees means only two match up. I will gladly listen to any suggestions, and many thanks.

 

Also----after breaking one self-tapping screw in the old 4 hole support, I one-at-a-time heated the bolts, rubber mallet smacked them tighter a few times, then looser, back and forth. 2 came out marvelously. So that's a new trick from you guys, thank you. But the final one snapped quite easily. So my original 4 hole tub support has 2 screws out, 2 broken down in the holes. Frankly, if I drill them out, there's quite a bit of clearance beneath the hub to install thru-bolts, washers and nuts on the bottom.

 

[akronman]

more

This shot shows the hub with that bad bolt. Of course, my first step will be attempting an E-Z-Out removal, we'll see.

 

[combo52]

Norge Rebuild

I would see no problem drilling holes in a porcelain coated steel tub if that seems the best way to go, just mark them and tap with a center punch lightly and drill away.

 

[akronman]

spin tub

Here, instead, is the inner tub new parts. My tub has 3 holes. While the cork and foam/plastic gaskets have 4 holes, the genuine metal tub support is drilled for either 3 or 4 holes, so all will be well there.

 

My Norge(Fedders) is 1978, Repair Clinic.com is where I got the PN#La-2009 for the overall kit, listed as Crosley/Magic Chef. Somewhere there is likely a more exact PN, but this Norge LWA2065BOO (or leaving off the last few digits, etc) has never come up with a listing on over a dozen websites, so I just bought the only kit I could find, what the hell.  The Repair Clinic site let me type in "norge washer bearing seal," to get this LA-2009 kit, but no, it never recognized the actual model #. Seems as though Norge switched the hole count, but the various bearings and washers and seals are all the same.

 

I have 4 other brand machines currenlty in the line-up, so there's no rush here, I will gladly slowly wait and see your suggestions. This is my one and only Norge, I want to do this RIGHT and ONCE.

 

I have a 1970 Norge Repair Master, helpful enough but doing a 6 hole versus 4 hole conversion/mismatch is pretty much for this website's ideas, not for Norge.

 

Also, while it's all apart, any suggestions on oiling/lubing lower down the entire shaft? Bearings near the baseplate? Brake components? The tranny works fine, I won't touch it. The suspension is great, it used to go 640 RPMs on spin and never a trouble. It will be a great loud beast of a machine again soon.

 

Another ALSO-----no bolts came with this new kit. IS Home Depot gonna have these self-tapping fine pitch bolts for cutting into the aluminum flange holes?

 

[akronman]

hey John

John---you are one of the all time pro's here, drilling new holes would solve tons of other issues, THANK YOU.  The actual hole size in the aluminum hub is smaller also, likely one exact bolt size smaller. So I will find and buy the correct diameter and depth self-tapping bolts before I start any drilling.

 

[kb0nes]

I wouldn't count on Home Depot having anything odd, typically its just standard poor quality hardware that they stock and always in packages sized one less then what you need! These days I get all my hardware (and lots of other stuff) from McMaster-Carr.

Personally I hate self-tapping screws, they are just chosen to cut costs. In this case I'd simply tap the holes and use a standard machine screw. You will get better threads this way and you have less difficulty in finding just the right screws.

As a follow along to the stuck screw topic, one great way to prevent stuck threads in the future is the judicious use of Locktite. A single drop of 242 Blue Locktite fills the voids in the thread helix with plastic eliminating any future corrosion. Years later screws just twist out cleanly. Added bonus that the threads are sealed from leakage and vibration loosening too. Better living through chemistry!

 

[cfz2882]

pump impeller

check the pump for broken impeller fins-that style of norge pump is very prone to fins getting stripped off the impeller.

 

[norgechef]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but..

Often when the tub seal and bearings begin failing it will allow water to leak into the transmission which makes the transmission lock up. I have seen this happen many times in Maytag/Amana searcy washers and i suppose it could happen to other washing machines as well. I also notice that when a Norge/Magic Chef washer breaks it is usually the transmission or the bearings that go since those are their weak points as they get older.

 

[akronman]

more

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Upon closer inspection, the brand new 6 hole outer tub flange presents issues. The holes are on a smaller diameter circle than the existing ones, and the bolts would cut into the lip on that inner edge of the tub. Also, the raised portion of the new flange is a smaller diameter than the tub opening, I'd create a real mis-match trying to install that "other Norge" flange. And all those extra holes and cutting into that strengthening lip would weaken the tub. And there’s an old plastic retaining ring for holding down the cork gaskets, it wouldn’t fit either and the new 6 hole model didn’t come with one. A wide variety of reasons are pushing me back to the original 4 hole flange/bearing support.

 

 

[akronman]

more again

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So back to the original 1978 outer tub bearing/flange/support. It took 3 weeks and tons of PB blaster, and then a buddy visiting who still talks about his 1968 Mustang 302 Engine Rebuild (Mostly Caps) and couldn’t resist a challenge to finally get the retaining ring out.

 

So now it’s out but of course the bearing is still in there. I’m doing more PB Blaster and hammering away but am about ready for a professional. Between pressing out this old bearing and pressing in the new, and then drilling out those 2 of 4 holes where the bolts snapped, shouldn’t a decent auto mechanic shop be able to do this work in quick time, relatively easy?

 

Look at how horrid that 35 year old bearing is, yowza.

 

 

Webmaster Robert’s 1964 rebuild, linked above, shows using epoxy and various sealants to make up for the fact that the cheap pot metal is pitted/corroded nasty, I think overall that is the way to go for now.