35W Freeway Bridge Collapse

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1.7 Trillion Dollars in Five Years

That's the correct figure I heard from ABC News for fixing all the bridges. And how many newer structures are hastily built and poorly designed in the guise of more accessible and convenient roadway travel? The cold hard reality is the longer we put it off, the more expensive the price tag, and the harder it would be to pay for it all.--Laundry Shark
 
Californai differences

California is known for its freeways. What isn't often discussed is the quality of the roadways. Because much of the state is not subject to freezing winter temps, the roadways are built thinner than those in other, colder states. This means that we can get more than our share of potholes. I understand further that even in northern states, the thickness of the roadbed is less than that of the average European roadway. I don't know why that would be, but it seems to me that a thicker roadbed would last longer and subject the population to much less inconvenience due to pothole repair and resurfacing.

A relative that lives in Portland, Oregon, visited here in the 90's and remarked at how badly potholed the major freeways are. I recall a news story about a decade ago that cited a study that summed up the cost to the average motorist of increased wear and tear on the car's tires and suspension due to the rough road surfaces. When I was riding my motorcycle (I stopped about a year ago) I remember having to be extra cautious about not hitting a big pothole at speed. I have a friend who was injured by a pothole on his bike a few years back. It took the city ages to pay up on his claim.
 
thank god you and Neal are okay

hi robert, when i saw that bridge collapse all i could do was think god i hope robert and neal are okay, and now iam glad to hear that you both are okay. God is watching over you both. thank god your both okay.

Kelly
 
I think I’m feeling better now. I can’t tell you all how crushed I was that this happened here, but now I’m starting to think if this had to happen maybe it’s good that it did happen here. President Bush was in the city today, but I didn’t go anywhere near Downtown except to the gym which is on the complete other side of downtown so I avoided all that traffic and crowds. It was a gray day today with clouds and showers and its the first time the high temperature has stayed below 80 in well over a month, its almost chilly tonight well down into the 60’s and it feels simply fabulous. I do not like sunshine day in and day out, I like a need a variety of weather constantly and that sun has been out constantly all summer long. I find it funny that it rained the day the president decides to visit, after not raining for weeks, how fitting.

Well as horrible of a tragedy that the bridge collapse was, the only thing we can do now is look forward to the good that might come from this. For one thing this is an absolute political nightmare for our Republican governor Tim Pawlenty. He is one of only three MN politicians that I do not care for, at least from the ones that really matter. He was reelected by less than 1% of the vote and only because the Democrat candidate made some serious (and very stupid) mistakes a few days before the election. We have a liberal state house with an 85 to 49 majority Democrat and a state senate as well with a 44 to 23 Democrat majority. The state legislature twice has sent a bill to increase the gasoline tax by 5 cents a gallon to pay for roads and other transportation needs and both times the Governor has vetoed the bill. The last time was only two months ago, now you can be sure that as soon as the state legislature is back in session another gas tax bill will go to the Governor and this time I bet he wont have the nerve to veto it again. For the past six years our state taxes have been going straight down but it’s time for them to learn that you cannot sustain our high quality of life in Minnesota for free. Personally I would rather pay more and get good services, like we always have had here and I will vote that way. I’m just so sorry it takes people dying to drive that point home. But commentaries like this seem to be coming out of the woodwork and just in the nick of time. The fallout is just beginning and I can’t wait.

I think our tragedy is going to make quite of few of our low/no tax conservatives squirm nationwide. Look at what some of the editorials are saying in Miami, Boston, Detroit and Philadelphia. I’m now healing and starting to think that some political good might really rise from our tragedy, at least thinking that way is making me feel better, not to mention how good the cool, damp weather is making me feel tonight.
 
Ageing infrastructure is a world wide problem. In Au where water shortage is nearly always a concern, about 15% of our water supply is lost in leaks in the distribution system. We have a population of about 20 million in a land mass about the same size as continental USA, so you can see we are a small population paying to run a big country.

After the bridge collapse in Minnie, authorities here are rushing to cover their butts and make sure nothing similar happens here. The Westgate bridge, which connects East and West Melbourne over the Yarra river, was built in the 1970s and today was declared structurally unfit. It was announced today that the bridge was engineered for 40,000 vehicle crossings per day, it now gets 160,000 crossings per day. Trucks are now larger and heavier, too.

This resonates with me personally for a number of reasons:
- I regularly cross the bridge when I visit my parents and sister,
- I used to live near it
- the Westgate bridge has already collapsed once, in the 1970s when is was still under construction, and my Dad was working under the bridge when it collapsed. (He wasn't hurt, but many workmen died that day.)
The Westgate was originally designed to be a very "sleek" bridge, it had to cover a wide river mouth and had to rise very high as large ships had to pass under it. The idea was the road would rise like a ribbon supported on very tall concrete pylons. The bridge construction started from both ends at once, the plan was to meet in the middle. Unfortunately there were some engineering errors and as the two ends approached, it was apparrent that they were NOT going to meet. The construction company tried to force the ends to meet using heavy weights, it ws not successful and when they removed the weights, a section collapsed killing 35 men. My dad was a construction foreman at Webb Dock which is below the bridge, we did not know if he had been hurt till he got home that night.

The bridge was eventually completed, and has large steel pylons and supporting cables above the road level, which are extra strengthening added to the original design. For this reason I ws very surprised to hear today that it is now considered to be overloaded. The state government is considering banning large trucks from it right now.

Railways are another concern - the Warrnambool to Melbourne train, which I use occasionally, derailed a year or two ago due to lack of maintenance of the tracks. In AU the railways are mainly government owned, except in my State, the metropolitan railways are leased to a private company and one country line, the Warrnambool line that services my area, was sold off to a private company. The maintenance on that line was cut back to lower costs, eventually it deteriorated to the point that the train de-railed. Luckily, IIRC, no-one died and few were injured. Shortly afterwards the company relinquished the line and it is once again operated and maintained by the State owned rail service VicRail.

Chris

 
Robert,

Good to hear you're feeling better about things. Yes, you should go out and vote for people you believe will do the job right.

Regarding the weather... in the photos I've seen in the past few days, I was struck by how green most everything looked. Here in California, the hills have all turned brown from the typical dry summer weather. On the other hand, if you want warm days and cool crisp nights, move to the SF Bay Area. Just don't move to the western portion of the City, or you might not see the sun at all from May to November! I have to say I relish our few days of hot nights every year... when you can go out at midnight in shirtsleeves and not feel a chill, but I'm always happy when what Herb Caen touted as our "natural air conditioning" returns.

It is also good news that the dead and missing count estimate has dropped so dramatically.
 
I was struck by how green most everything looked.

Rich we are running over 3" below normal of precip for the months of June and July so we are definately in need to some rain. The soil here is very rich and black so that helps keep things green but I think it's very brown compared to a normal summer this year. This is the third year in a row of below normal precipitation in the middle of the summer.
 
Yep, I did see some brown grass by the side of the road, but I didn't know if that was deliberately killed grass (to keep down the fire danger) or what. Still, most of the country east of the Mississippi is much greener in the summertime than it is here in the Southwest. Western Oregon and Washington stay fairly green as well, but much cooler than here.

Today it drizzled very lightly on and off all day. Sun never came out - unusual for this time of year. But it gave me a chance to work on the finish on one of the cars - it got pretty hammered getting parked at the workplace, what with rail dust from BART/railroad and the grinding dust from the shops. Had to use a wet clay to remove the little stickies. Now it's back under a car cover until I can clear the appliances from the carport.
 
A couple of things:

1) On Pawlenty: Robert, from your mouth to God's ears! That guy has done more damage to Minnesota---especially the public school systems---than any governor I can recall. I've waited for people to finally wake up to what his No Tax Hikes policy has done to the state. He's obviously being groomed by his party for national office. They can have him. And Norm Coleman, too. Feh! (When did I become Jewish?)

2) On Drought: Down here in the southwestern corner of the state we crossed into Extreme Drought classification two weeks ago, which meant we were 6 inches below normal in precip. Fortunately, we received an inch yesterday. This is a farming area and everyone was getting pretty tense. We have a lot more at stake than lawns around here. It was heartening to see the spring in peoples' steps, today.
 
I voted for Ventura but was unhappy with some of his positions
towards the end of his term and was getting tired of his
unnecessarily rude/tactless statements. But after Pawlenty
was elected, I wished Ventura was back. Pawlenty was the one
who said he supported Bush and would still support him even if
Bush had a 1% approval rating. Made me sick people voted him
back in.
 
bridge collapse

I am very glad to know that every one here is safe and accounted for. This disaster brings back memories of the Silver Bridge collapse in Pt. Pleasant, WV on December 15, 1967, during the rush hour. 46 people were killed and two are still missing, 40 years later. The news media covered this tragedy well, but I am sure that many here were too young/not born to remember it. I remember it well....we had just been across the bridge two weeks before the collapse. I still don't like to cross bridges, but even more...I don't like to be stopped in traffic on a bridge. You might have heard of this collapse...it was depicted in "The Mothman Prophecies". Richard Gere was in the movie. The time was moved to Christmas Eve in the year the movie was made, but even with that, the bridge collapse scene was WAY too accurate. (but I must admit, the special effects were wonderful).......Again, VERY glad everyone is OK.....
 
I'm joing in late but I'm glad to hear that everyone is safe and accounted for on this board. That was horrible.
This nations infastructure IS is dire need of maintance and replacement, and its no laughing matter. Maybe now, something will be done. Two or three years ago we had massive flooding in this area that did tremendous damage. Authorites had to evacuate several towns downstream from a major 80 year old dam because its structural integrity could not be guaranteed as it was LEAKING AT THE BOTTOM. They just did minor repairs on it after the floods as the money to really fix it was not available. Its still sitting there in use and whenever it rains everyone keeps an eye on it. Medina Lake Dam. 80 years old. Gov. Rick Perry did nothing.
 
Dams . . .

The whole Sacramento Delta area is composed of a bunch of old and often poorly engineered dams and waterways, patched together over the years. The water from this area not only needs to be controlled to prevent flooding, but much of the irrigation water for farmers in the Central Valley comes from here. The decrepit state of the system has been known for decades, but the California legislature seems incapable of consistently supporting any solution for long enough to implement it.

Cooperation and coordination among politicians is essential to get funding for massive infrastructure improvments and maintenance. Although I don't like modern Republicans much, the truth of the matter is that the Democrats are often just as lacking in any understanding of the concept of statemanship, and the spirit of cooperation that results from it. The result is that too many politicians would rather sit in Sacramento or St. Paul or D.C. and snipe at each other than produce results. They disgust me.
 
Yes, Republocrats and Demlicans. Too often, there is no
difference and rather than the agreement being good for
the populace, it is only good for the rich and powerful.
 
Now, if the news programs actually publicized this...

(My property taxes have gone up 40% since Pawlenty took office
to pay for cuts in state aid, while the taxes on the rich have
gone down. Of course when you've been laid off your job, it's
easy to pay more property taxes...)

 
Local news

So today Pawlenty was "standing" at the same place where he
vetoed the 2005 gas tax increase for road repair and said he
would support a gas tax increase. The news also said his veto
earlier this year of a gas tax increase for the same reason
was not well-publicized, the one the Legislature wasn't able
to override. Just another f'ing politician.
 
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