A little change made to Fels Naptha

[stan]

Noticed the label change, now with the "Purex" a top. And some slight changes made to the ingredients list!
Appears they have added a anti bacterial, anti fungial ingredient. ( triclorocaban) and another new ingredient.

More to come as I find out.

 

[stan]

Back side

Dial corp still listed as Dist?

 

[stan]

Sorry

Dipentene is the other new ingredient!

Suspect this may be a better formula for cleaning then the last?
But for those with sensitive skin types...

 

[supersuds]

We need Launderess to weigh in, but she seems to have been AWOL lately. Hope nothing is wrong.

 

[teknikleespekng]

Interesting...

Hi! Poppping over from the Deluxe forum. I love Fels-Naptha for pre-treating stains. I only found out about it in the last year. Now they go and change it!

Going to the website, it doesn't list these new ingredients. Im going to Walmart later to pick up some before they stock this newer version.

From Fels-Naptha website:
Ingredients

Soap (sodium tallowate*, sodium cocoate* (or) sodium palmate kernelate*, and sodium palmate*), water, talc, cocnut acid*, palm acid*, tallow acid*, PEG-6 methyl ether, glycerin, sorbitol, sodium chloride, pentasodium pentetate and/or tetrasodium etidronate, titatium dioxide, fragrance, Acid Orange (CI 20170), Acid yellow 73 (ci43350)

*contains one or more of these ingredients

Dipentene from toxipedia
Dipentene is a terpene liquid, a class of hyrdocarbons produced by plants, that is colorless with a lemon-like odor. It is most commonly used as a solvent in a variety of products. It is a high production volume chemical with US annual production over 1,000,000 pounds. It is only known as limonene.

 

[teknikleespekng]

I went to my local Walmart

and they had the new bars on the shelf. I dug way into the back and bought the last 5 bars of the older type. That should hold me a while until we hear more about how these new ingredients affect the product.

 

[stan]

Until I use it

And research a little more, Il just hope the the changes made, are for the better! (For the time being)
The Dipentene "may" make this a little better, and "possibly" come a bit closer to the original Fels that use to contain stoddard solvent .

More to come!

Laundress where are you?

 

[rp2813]

I just bought a bar a month or two ago, but haven't used it yet and can't remember where I got it.  The wrapper has the "100 Years" medallion on it.  That would be some really old stock.  It might have been at my favorite ACE Hardware.

 

[stan]

Ralph

It's probably not that old.
This is a recent change. The Fels website is still listing the old ingredients.
When I bought this new bar, the older ones were mixed with it. I opted for the newer one, because I spotted the labal change, and a change in the ingredient list, but needed to get home to see exactly what those changes were.

I'm washing with the new one now, and will see if there is a appreciable difference?

 

[stan]

Only

One washing with it, and don't notice any chage in performance?
Will have to get some really dirty whites with some grease on them to be able to tell if the new stuff is better, or worse, or same?

 

[teknikleespekng]

Waiting for update

Please let us know when you do a more soiled/greasy/stained load with results

 

[launderess]

Don't Care What Purex/Dial Says

You cannot call something "Naptha" without it having some sort of solvent inside the soap. Dial/Purex keeps changing the original formula of Fels "naptha" soap removing that substance but using another solvent in it's place.

Limonene is indeed a natural chemical made from citrus fruit waste (the peels IIRC), but it is considered toxic by some. Limonene is the power behind most if all citrus oil based solvent cleaners/detergents including "Goo Gone" and similar products. Bi-O-Kleen and other "natural" products also include the stuff as well.

The orginal Fels and the copy cat naptha soaps which followed were in a sense the first petrol derived wash day detergents. Because it was the solvent that did much of the soil lifting housewives and others doing the wash didn't have to use all that boiling, rubbing, beating and whatever to shift soils. Adding naptha to soap was better than the other age old method of adding petrol,usually kerosene to the boiling wash tub. One can only imagine how many were burned and or badly maimed if not killed by using such a flammable substance so close to fires. Kerosene was chosen because in the age of oil lamps it was already in most homes. While this method *did* work to shift soil from wash, the petrol often combined with soaps to form a horrible scum which was difficult to shift. Indeed the entire wash load done with such a method would require many long and hot rinses to not only shift the soap but the residue from petrol as well.

Being as all this may the orginal Fels (one has a huge enough stash) is wonderful for shifting "solvent" required stains such as ink, lipstick, candle wax, oil, grease etc.

From what one can see of the above label (sorry Stan, but my getting older eyes couldn't deal with the upside down picture, *LOL*) this latest incarnation is more soap with a bit of solvent thrown in than the original Fels Naptha soap. That product contained water softener (washing soda), soap, and other chemicals including fabric whitening agents. This was the Purex incarnation and with good soft water probably would do as a laundry "detergent" on it's own.

 

[stan]

Greetings Dear (laundress)

Was hoping you'd show up to look over that latest version of the time honored classic!
And sorry for the upside down pic, (is right side up on my end LOL) and glad your back!

Looking over the new ingredients on this new one... I think they may be a little closer to the intended purpose of the old. Limonene is at least a solvent, where's as the last version of this laundry bar didn't have any, natural, or otherwise.

Teknikleespekng, haven't had anything dirty enough to really give it a good test yet, but as soon as I do I'll post my findings.

 

[stan]

Update

Used the new one today, and think its better than the last incarnation of Fels.

As Laundress points out, its somewhat fustratiing that they are able to call something "Naptha" when it no longer contains it.

Laundress was kind enough to send me some real Fels (vintage) a while back, and there is absolutely a huge difference in how it cleans! The original formula works beautifully, and actually is fairly easy to rinse (for a soap)

While this new version, will not come close to the original, it dose seem to clean better than the last version, as it did shift some oily stains better than expected. Probably due to its new solvent.

This test was done using a wash water temp of 125 degrees, and rinse temp of about 100 degrees. A 1/3 cup of the grated soap, and 1/2 tbls of STPP. ( top loader)

 

[launderess]

Totally Off Topic - Stan About That Persil

Went to use some the other day and whilst putting the box back into the Persil tin noticed the various languages on the box. This particular "universal" Persil is from/for the Eastern Europe market, not the usual German/North American stuff one and am sure others are used to as well.

Yes, Henkel produces both versions but it could explain why the scent is so different.

 

[stan]

Well Dear

Dose it still carry the strong scent, or has I'd faded ?
How dose it preform?

To get back on topic.. Let us know if you ever try this new incarnation, (new Fels) and what your thoughts are!

After using the real stuff (you sent) I'm moved to try to make some myself, using Naptha solvent in the formula LOL
just won't be able to purify or " prove" the soap the same way it was done back in the day!

Good to hear from you, as always.

 

[teknikleespekng]

Thanks for the update!

I'll be a while before I buy the new formula since I bought 5 bars of the one with the "100 years" label, LOL.

I have to say though, I pre-treated a beach towel that my daughter had used regularly for removing makeup when she was too lazy to properly remove it. I thought for sure the towel was ruined. I wet the towel and rubbed the bar onto the stains. I left it to sit in the utility sink and returned a bit later. I noticed how much had dissolved before even going to rub it. I rinsed the towel and was amazed how much came out! I retreated and left it again. Its amazing how it works almost right before your eyes. Remember those early oxyclean commercials? Yeah, like that. It also works great on blood stains. Plus it doesnt lift the dye/fade fabrics like pre-treating with other types of products.

I'll be sure to let my friend know about your results. She uses Fels-Naptha in her homemade laundry soap.

 

[launderess]

New Soap Purchases

No, there won't be any further additons to my "collection". *LOL*

Have quiet enough to last the duration if not several lifetimes and thus see no need to further expand. As it is one runs the danger of after one's demise the subsequent estate sale will leave persons wondering "why did she hoard so much soap?".

 

[stan]

Teknikleespekng

Also
Plain old " Lye Soap" is excellent, when used as a stain stick.
It's a little harder to find than the Fels, but if you ever run across some give it a try!
Dose an amazing job on ring around the collar, cuffs, oily stains, ect.

 

[teknikleespekng]

Lye Soap

Oh, thanks for the tip! My grandmother used to make her own lye soap. I remember it sitting up on the beams in the basement. Kinda harsh when we took baths there though! Any particular brand, place where I should start looking? The old time hardware stores are mostly gone, and I dont purchase over the internet. Im going to go google now. Sometimes I still find stuff through Vermont Country Store.

Lisa

 

[westingman123]

Lye soap

My local Ace Hardware stores carry it, but it's made here in Missouri so I'm unsure if it's available everywhere.

 

[stan]

Lisa

It may be hard to get a hold of since you don't order over the net.
But you may find a website that has a phone # that allows phone orders for a handcrafted version.

There is some misconception about Lye Soap with regards to it being harsh. That's really not the case at all.
Lye soap (which really means soap made with pig fat) can be very conditioning to skin, because of its unique fatty acid content.

However Lye Soap that is made with the intent to clean floors, or used for laundry, can be made slightly lye heavy.
This is the case in years gone by, and in many vintage laundry formulas.

There was Lye Soap for bathing, ( less lye required for same amount of fat) and stronger Lye Soap
( a little more lye than nessesary for the exact same amout of fat)

So the fat heavy one was used to wash the baby, and the lye heavy one used to wash the baby's diapers! LOL
There is a lot more science and chemistry involved than that, but ya get the idea!

 

[teknikleespekng]

stan

I believe the soap she made was more for laundry than bathing. She had ivory soap in the bathroom, but I guess my brother and I were so enthralled w/the homemade soap we wanted to use it. I know she had a top loader but she also had a washboard and wringer.

 

[stan]

Im guessing but The washboard

Is most likely what she used her lye soap for, and as a stain stick.
The home made lye soap doesn't produce a whole lot of suds, which make it easier to use with a washboard, or as stain stick, so she could see what had come clean, and what hadn't, and re visit the dirty spots!
Without a whole lot of suds, shed be able to see the color of the water, and decide if it was time to dump, and refill.

It was the original low sudsing wash aid. LOL

 

[launderess]

IIRC Lye Is Used To Produce "Crystal Meth"

Thus in many local areas of this country sales are restricted. If you can find a shop that carries lye in our area it is either behind counters and or locked cabinets. Even crystal drain openers/cleaners can be hard to lay hands on as well.

Even before its other uses lye was becoming hard to find in many areas. The stuff is just too dangerous to have lying about household, especially one with children.

Growing up remember reading cans of lye either in shops or in someone's home and seeing directions for making soap. Of course then one wondered why anyone would bother making something that can easily be purchased in shops...

Sodium hydroxide/caustic soda (lye) for many years was part of commercial and even home laundering processes. Often used as a "break" this powerful base chemical would be employed to raise the pH level of water to increase it's detergency action by "breaking" oils/soils from fabrics. In short the alkali turned the oils/fats on washing into a type of soap that could be washed away.

Base chemicals also will destroy protein which in the days before enzyme enhanced laundry products everything from ammonia on up the pH scale was used to deal with blood and similar nature stains. Alkali will also help break up tannin and some other types of stains as well.

Base chemicals also contribute to washday because by raising the pH level of water it counters the normally acid laundry thus allowing soap to work better. It also caused natural textile fibers to swell allowing dirt/soils to be easily washed away.

Problem with using strong or even medium basic chemicals like caustic soda, sal soda, sodium carbonate, etc... is that washing has to be rinsed several times and then soured to bring down the final pH to a level that won't irritate human skin. Repeated each wash this causes all sorts of problems for textiles and little by little chews fibers leading to weakening and holes. Encrustation is something any good launderer or those formulating detergents know well. This is why you hear so much about near or neutral laundry products today.

P&G's latest incarnation of Tide (Vivid) claims to give excellent results whilst avoiding encrustation and the chewing up of textile fibers caused by using harsh base chemicals.

Commercial laundries long have used corrosive substances (caustic soda, washing soda, chlorine bleaches, etc...) which is how they can run several "fast" cycles and produce acceptable clean washing. This often was not a problem in the "old days", but with modern local sewage codes laundries often are hit with fines for what amounts to chemical dumping.

 

[stan]

Laundress

Your right!

However here in these parts, there are too many people that are still curing their own olives, so the stuff still sits on the hardware store shelves!

Would love to see what the directions were for soap-making on those old cans you saw! Who knows how they calculated the formula!

The reason one would make there own would be... to control of the quality of the soap desired.
In other words, if they had some idea, of fatty acid contents of various fats, and oils, and knew what each one contributed to the final outcome, someone could taylor the soap to there own specific needs.

To get closer to our original topic,
Say for instance I wanted to make something close to the original Fels Naptha, I might use lard, lye, and soft water, calculate to a 0% super fat (no fat remaining) and during the processing add a percentage of Naptha solvent
( I'd get that at the same hardware store)
theoretically what I'd end up with, would be a low sudsing laundry soap, enhanced by the stoddard solvent .
Would I have the same thing as commercially made vintage Fels? Of course not. I wouldn't be able to purify or "prove" the soap the same way they did.
And your right, extra rinsing may be required, but I'd get me some really clean bright whites LOL

Your also right about the sodium hydroxide being caustic, even worse is potassium hydroxide, also used to make soft, or liquid soap. Why people should be cautious with fire place ashes getting wet. AKA potassium hydroxide.

 

[launderess]

Would love to see what the directions were for soap-making o

Knock yourself out! *LOL*

 

[stan]

Dear

Should have known you'd have a can of the stuff about LOL!

Do you happen to know how many ounces the can was?
If so, think I will knock myself out a do the calculations !

 

[launderess]

IIRC It Was

Thirteen ounces in a plastic can.

Red Devil lye was discontinued several years ago, so cannot tell you much beyond that. Word is that the US federal government *leaned* on Reckitt-Benckiser to cease production but there are still other sources out there.

 

[westie2]

My grandmother and great grand mother used wood ash to make lye.  Took shifted hardwood ashes from the wood stove  and fire place and put it in a wood barrel that had a layer of rocks in bottom then a thick layer of straw abd it also had a wooden spout on it.  They would pack the barrel with the ash and then would take rain water and pour over the ash.  Would used several gallons of water and would let it sit in the barrel for a week and drain it.  To check the lye  strenght they would take a raw egg and put in the bucket holding the lye water.  If it floated to the top it was strong enough to work.  Looked like tea.  I have one of the big cast iron kettles they used my brother the other.  Only use cast iron or stainless steele.  Do it only outside as the fumes can't get you.

 

I don't know the measurments as they would put in the lard and tallow and heat and also would heat the lye water then poured the lye water into the pot that had the melted fat.  They used a big wooden paddle and stired and astired the mixture until it turned and starting getting soupy thick and would stir some more until the paddle would stand in the pot.  Then would dip out the soap into boxes my grand pas and uncles had made.  They were lined with old newspaper.  That would sit for a day or so and then they woul cut it into blocks and then after a week would turn the bars outs and lay then on the covered back porch floor to cure a month or so.  Readyy for another year for family to use.  To make hand soap to clean dirt off they would take some of the soft soap and add corn meal to it then pour into making bars.  I guess the last time they made it was like 1963 or 1964 my grandmother passed away in 1965 when she was 65 and great grand mother lived on to 1977 when she was 97.  My great grand dad died in 1960 when he was 95.