A712 maytag won't spin

[eronie]

The belt is to tight....
With the belt on you should be able to push the motor toward the large pully at least one half inch.
Either the belt is to short or the carriage is assembled incorrectly.
At the start of spin the belt MUST slip till the tub is almost empty.

 

[spin-cycle]

Dan, Eronie (and others following this)

The hardware must not be correctly reassembled, that is all me. Belts don't suddenly shrink 1/2" to 1" in length. Until the parts are assembled correctly, yes I need a longer belt as Eronie points out, or as Slim Pickens once said, "a 'boat' load of dimes", today it is more like a 5 lb bag of quarters to feed the machines at a commercial laundry emporium. I am leaning towards a temporary belt, which if it gets me through larger laundry loads than my 6 T-shirts test load size (and more water use) would also confirm the rest of the machine is behaving well.

Dan's comment on the holes for the springs on the motor glide assembly is exactly what I have, 2 holes on the left side for springs and one of the right side. The original motor glide assembly is in use, the other motor I had in place temporarily is not in use now, and the motor glide assembly it came with was very different, so much that I was unable to use it. The photos here show the details.

My goal is still to figure out what I have done wrong and re-assemble, to get it back to the way it is supposed to be.

V-belts seem to be quite the subject, some websites measure outside others inside.
I went to a retailer and found the tool used to measure, if I used it correctly my 2-11125 belt measured to 40.5" circumference. Belts in this size range seem to be commonly available in full inch increments. I need a longer belt so that may not be a problem. Also, the cross section of the Maytag belt is in between the standard sizes (see screen grab).

Measuring my Maytag belt's cross section at several random points the longest side of the trapezoid shape, ranges 0.440" to 0.460", (so loosely 7/16"). The thickness between the 2 parallel surfaces is about 0.31" (loosely 5/16"). So a belt I can get is going to be a small compromise, slightly larger cross section.

Looking at the latest pictures the base of the motor glide assembly one can see the mounting studs are offset and if reversed will cause no spring tension on the motor and belt. Even then the original belt is too short to slip appropriately.

I am still not seeing my mistake. Not giving up.

 

[combo52]

I think the Motor slide carriage is assembled backwards

This is what it should look like.

You’re correct that the belt didn’t suddenly shrink, but I wouldn’t waste a single minute trying to find a belt that will work with the motor carriage assembled backwards. You’re not likely to find a belt that has the proper slip characteristics to work on this washer?

John

 

[spin-cycle]

John,
Thanks for the image. I have taken your image and one of mine and rotated these to be oriented similarly and put them side by side.

My guess that your unit is perhaps the older version from mine, but that does not seem to make any difference to what they both accomplish.

Here is what I see, slider part with the 4 studs closest to the camera, springs attached on the left edge. Result is the motor is moved to the extreme left of the images. I believe this results in a similar function of both whole assemblies.

I also grabbed part of an exploded view of what I believe is my slider assembly, which best I can tell is physically different than your example. I believe both versions do the same thing in the same way.

Maybe I am not seeing it right.

Thanks for taking time to contribute

 

[qsd-dan]

The motor carriage John shot a picture of looks like one from the 60's. The carriage was reoriented in 1984 beginning with the 12 series which apparently went through 2 revisions.

Since the motor was tripping the protection circuit before the machine was ever touched, I still think the transmission belt is at fault. The motor carriage is properly oriented and attached to the base in Reply #11. Same goes with the motor pulley and belt arrangement in Reply #17.

The transmission belt I posted got swiped by someone else (happens every time I post a rare part or one that's a good price).

Here are pictures of a 1967 motor carriage (early A806 I saved from the crusher) and one from my Dec, 1987 A490 (Montgomery Wards version of a 412, I upgraded it to a 712 about 15 years ago using a control panel w/harness and 2 speed motor from a donor machine).

First picture is the '67 carriage.

Second picture is the front motor carriage picture of the A490. This is the carriage I've seen in all 12 series washers with one screw up and 2 screws in teh back holding the carriage down to the base.

Third picture is the back of the carriage being held down to the base with 2 screws.

This setup allows the motor carriage to be removed from the top WITHOUT having to remove the motor pulley (base opening enlarged to allow room for the pulley during removal). As I stated earlier, you have a weird mishmash combination of old and new motor carriage/base arrangement.

 

[spin-cycle]

Dan,

If the transmission belt is the issue I offer measurements of the belt I have.

The sites I visited all agree on one thing, to measure a belt the use of a fabric ruler (used in sewing) or a 1/4" diameter piece of rope that gets marked and then measured. Steel tapes and wood or metal rulers apparently known to not be the best choices.

Having 4 hands did make this easier and likely accurate.

My transmission belt is 41.75" outside and 40.75" inside.
It is old and I have no objection to replacing it.
What I don't want to do is receive a belt that is identical or virtually identical in length as I do not see how an identical length belt will change anything.

Could I impose on those in this thread to make some careful measurements and post what you get for this model belt?

thanks so much

ps, Dan thanks for the history of the slider assembly down through the years.

 

[qsd-dan]

The size may be off a smidge but I think the fabric wrapping on the original belt has worn just enough that it's gripping too much during the spin cycle and putting additional stress on the motor.

The transmission belt generally dies in 2 ways on these machines. The fabric wrapping wears out the smokes/burns up the belt during the spin cycle or it causes motor issues like yours. I'm betting a new OEM factory belt will fix it.

Another thing to check is that the drain hose has no restrictions, a nice healthy stream of water coming out during the spin cycle. In rare cases, I've seen the siphon break (206638) get clogged up with mineral deposits and restrict flow. This could put additional strain on the motor.

 

[spin-cycle]

The fabric wrapping wearing and changing friction certainly makes sense as the belt is original to the machine, I agree it is old and seen use.

A concern remains, the distance between the two pulleys this belt is on is too small, at least for the belt I have. With the distance I have the with the belt on, I can only imagine a new belt will not slip enough either. I have noted when the belt is off, the motor readily moves toward the front of the machine, with the belt is off travel is over 1 inch. With the belt is on travel is approx 1/8 inch.

If a new OEM factory belt is virtually the same size, I am at a loss to see how it will improve function. Many comments this belt has to slip, with belt on - motor too close to the tub axis, springs stretched, and other similar observations. And then there is the thermal protector stopping power to the motor with the current belt at the start of the spin cycle.

I will look into the drain hose, I do remember the one recent time I had drain hose out of the drain pipe to check something, did a test and the flow looked all too good as I quickly cut the power reinserted the hose and mopped up the water on the floor, things happen....

 

[combo52]

If the main drive felt only allows 1/8 of an inch of movement in the motor carriage the belt is too short. It could have shrunk. I’ve seen stranger things. I would go get an OEM belt and put it on, if you have a parts store take your belt and compare it when you buy the new belt.

John

 

[spin-cycle]

Hope I don't insult any one with the following, I have looked locally to find an original belt, or at least a whirlpool belt and no luck. Timing has become an issue, I have a surgery fast approaching and need to have this A712 working. I appreciate the points made that the is belt too short and fabric wear changing the slip characteristics.

So I looked in the garage and found a small treasure trove of belts, some used, others new. A fabric covered 43" belt was in the lot. It is a slightly larger cross section 1/2" than the original Maytag belt. Low and behold it did fit the pulleys it needed to fit at least I expected for a test. The motor moved further away from the basket rotation axis which looked a bit more like it should as what has been pointed out in earlier comments.

Came up with a small to medium sized wash load and decided to give it a try. The machine is temporarily up on wood blocks so I see whats going on underneath with a flashlight while I lay on some old carpet scraps. In this position I am able to monitor the AC current draw (which I wonder if my electrical toys are accurate, but I expect they are at least proportional, it is giving me some idea which I think is better than nothing).

The temporary belt slipped like it was meant to be there when the spin cycle started, The meter looking at current showed a split second of "OL" (over load) and then dropped to a, for this meter, typical current level. The basket slowly gained rotation speed until it reached what I believe is it's max velocity. When the spin associated with the rise cycle ended the clothing appeared to me to be in that dry enough to put in the dryer level of dampness.

Repeated this test with a bit larger load, with similar results. Will try a full load soon, hoping for a positive outcome.

I do intend to chase down a proper replacement belt and get it on in place of the temporary belt as a long term solution. I much prefer to keep products in their original state when ever possible.

Again my thanks to all who helped by contributing your valuable insights and sharing your experiences with a novice.

p.s. I am interested when a new belt is in hand to see how the belt sizes look, my original, the temp, and the new one. I plan to check back in. There is plenty to read here during my recovery time.

If anyone has any thoughts on the current whirlpool belts I am likely to be able to readily get, verses the Maytag originals I would be interested.