Air Conditioners

retro-man · Jul 12, 2018

I remember back in high school going to a friends house and her parents had a huge Sears window A/C. It had a separate dial for humidity setting along with the cooling dial. I believe it was a 220v. Had never seen this before or since. Anyone ever come across one of these?

Jon

tomturbomatic · Jul 12, 2018

Air conditioninig article from Washington Post

This makes it sound like there will be a resurgence in domestic AC manufacturing:

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Republicans can't agree on this climate deal brokered by Obama 

BY DINO GRANDONI 

with Paulina Firozi

THE LIGHTBULB

96a7598aa117468c201a2374d731b20f-600-0-70-8-iStock4839547401484763961.jpg

(iStock)

Republicans are happy to see the Trump administration do away with most of the climate policies of the previous president — or at least try to. But conservative politicians and activists are deeply divided over whether to cement into law a hard-fought international agreement on a set of little-known greenhouse gases.

The tiff concerns a multilateral effort to phase out hydrofluorocarbons, or HFCs. That class of organic compounds, which are used in but also leak from air conditioners, pose a duel threat to the planet: They erode Earth's protective ozone layer and amplify the greenhouse effect.

In President Barack Obama's final full year in office, his administration negotiated an amendment to the landmark Montreal Protocol attempting to curtail their use. But conservatives are divided about whether they should ratify the changes to the treaty now that they are in charge.

On the one side of the debate is much of the U.S. cooling industry, which supports what is called the Kigali Amendment, after the Rwandan city in which it was negotiated.

Domestic manufacturers want to make sure they are not shut out of the international market for the next generation of air conditioners as millions in sweltering nations in Asia, Africa and South America rise from poverty to buy cooling systems (all while temperatures climb, too).

Even the tea party-aligned group FreedomWorks touted the job-creating potential of the amendment in a letter last month. And for once, environmentalists and manufacturers are largely on the same page regarding a climate treaty.

“That’s not particularly common,” said Francis Dietz, spokesman for the Air-Conditioning, Heating and Refrigeration Institute (AHRI), an industry group.

On the other side are strident critics of climate-change science and mitigation efforts who do not want to see the ozone-layer treaty being used to fight climate change.

The latest firework occurred last week when the leaders of two dozen conservative groups wrote to President Trump pleading with him to reject the amendment.

“The Kigali Amendment would not advance the purpose of the Montreal Protocol,” said the letter, organized by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, “but would instead turn a treaty aimed at saving the ozone layer into a global-warming treaty.”

The amendment, like all treaties, must be submitted by the president to the Senate for approval. A two-thirds supermajority in the upper chamber must ratify it to become law.

But the HFC provision has a decent chance of meeting that high margin even in the GOP-controlled chamber. Already 13 Senate Republicans, ranging from moderates such as Susan Collins (Maine) to solid conservatives such as Tim Scott (S.C.), urged Trump in a letter to send them the treaty amendment.

In a sign of the political times, the senators' letter to Trump does not once mention the phrases “climate change” or “global warming.”

Instead, the senators focus on potential job losses to China should the United States fail to ratify. GOP Sen. John Kennedy, whose state of Louisiana is home to Honeywell and Mexichem Fluor factories involved in refrigerant manufacturing, led the petition to Trump.

“By sending this amendment to the Senate, you will help secure America’s place as the global leader in several manufacturing industries, and in turn give American workers an advantage against their competitors in the international marketplace,” the senators said.

But the Trump administration has for months delayed making a decision on whether to send the treaty to the Senate. In February, White House energy and climate adviser George David Banks said the Trump administration wanted “really good economic information” before coming to a decision on Kigali.

So AHRI hired consultants to interview companies and model the impact of the amendment. In a report published in April, the industry association projected ratifying Kigali would create an additional 33,000 jobs by 2027.

“The White House staff asked us to provide information on the jobs and trade benefits of Kigali ratification,” said Kevin Fay, head of the government affairs firm Alcalde & Fay. “We believe the strong economic analysis speaks for itself.”

But Trump still has yet to act.

Banks, who left the White House this year and says he supports ratifying Kigali “150 percent,” said there were still concerns among some members of the Trump administration over the cost to consumers of transitioning away from HFCs.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank that has proven to be influential in the Trump White House and that opposes expanding the scope of the Montreal Protocol to address climate change, issued its own counter-report arguing that phasing down HFCs would “impose substantial costs on American families” through higher air-conditioning and refrigerator prices.

“I would add that nothing is preventing businesses or families from switching,” said Nick Loris, a energy and environmental policy analyst at Heritage. “If they are cost-competitive, the market will make that transition.”

In response, the air-conditioning industry says cooling chemicals constitute a small fraction of the cost of new equipment and that, like with flat-screen televisions, that expense is falling over time.

Given the blue-collar factory jobs at stake, Banks says he is “bullish” on Trump supporting Kigali.

“The president is not going to trade away a portion of the U.S. manufacturing base just so consumers can save a little in the short term,” Banks said.

With the midterm elections approaching and a Supreme Court nomination on the docket, time is quickly evaporating for senators to approve the amendment this year if Trump sent it to them.

But refrigerant manufacturers say time is on their side. The United States could face trade restrictions beginning in the 2030s if the United States does not agree to the provision.

With or without U.S. backing, enough nations have signed the amendment for it to go into force next year.

 

 

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POWER PLAYS

vacerator · Jul 12, 2018

We all know

how Don Wan(a) thinks about the Post also.

dustin92 · Jul 12, 2018

We have a 1998 7800 btu Panasonic in the living room, and absolutely love it. Super quiet and ice cold. A 5100 Btu 1997 Hampton Bay (Fedders) in my room. Ice cold and typically very quiet, but the fan motor started squeaking tonight, will dig in tomorrow and see if it can be oiled, would hate to have to replace it! And, a 5100 Btu SoleusAir (new this summer) that is not as cold, and louder than the other two combined, and gives new meaning to the term "window shaker", no, wall/house shaker! Not at all happy with it! Hopefully mine can be fixed or I may end up with one of those!

thomasortega · Jul 13, 2018

I don't want to hijack this thread, but i now have a question.

the 12k btu Kenmore elite window A/C i mentioned above is installed in the living room, but I'm seriously thinking about moving it to my bedroom.

However, the living room has security bars (apartment is on 2nd floor, but the window is right above the stairs) and my bedroom doesn't.

When I installed it, i didn't screw it on the window sash because i don't want to drill three tiny holes and then end up with a landlord making me pay to replace the window after I move out. (we never know, right?)

The A/C seems to be safe even without the screws and outside, less than 1/4 of na inch below it there are the security bars (a "box" as they were made thinking of leaving space for an A/C) so, if something goes wrong and the A/C falls outside, the super sturdy bar will hold it in place.

Now in my bedroom there are no bars.

Is there any way to make a safe installation WITHOUT drilling? If the A/C falls, it won't only destroy the A/C, but it will fall right on Darryl's car that is usually parked right under the window.

Other thing i noticed. The compressor is in a strange position, near the front of the unit. As a designer, I immediatelly guessed it is to make the front much heavier (most of the weight right on the sash) and there are also concrete counterweights on the front.

Other thing to consider. This is California, we have great wines, great weather but somethines things get a little, let's say, "agitated" here.

simpsomatic · Jul 13, 2018

Mr. Slim

For all of the hundreds and thousands of mini-split air conditioning units out there all over the world the operational pitfalls are not unique to any one brand. A company in Australia has developed an ingenious service system for these units that eradicates the micron dust particles that collect on the cooling coils, the gunk that sticks to the barrel fan and most importantly the mold and mildew that thrives in the inner sanctums of these units. Watch the video, you will be truly amazed.

http://hydrokleen Air Conditioner Clean Demonstration - YouTube

petek · Jul 14, 2018

Geeze I wish they had that service here. I'm going to forward it to the company I use..

dustin92 · Jul 18, 2018

Well, sounds like my bedroom unit is on borrowed time.. Managed to get rid of the squeaking/squealing but now it rattles. Plus the coils are pretty corroded, likely from a mistake years ago when it had a bad case of black mildew... Soaked the whole thing down inside and out with straight clorox, then hosed it out. I didn't realize at the time that bleach is corrosive to aluminum... But it's still chugging along, even though it's a little worse for the wear. Will hate to see it go but will probably replace it next year.

drhardee · Jul 19, 2018

PTAC units

Recently, the Freidrich PTAC (heat and cool) unit we had in our added-on Champion sunroom finally gave up the ghost after 11 years, and we were faced with a choice. This would be an ideal time to take out the unattractive, noisy PTAC and get a quiet, remote-controlled, hidden away mini-split system.

However, the mini-split system was going to be $3,800.00 installed, and we would still be left with a hole in the sunroom wall where the PTAC lived. Champion wasn't going to repair that for free, and coordinating the mini-split installation and the PTAC hole repair (so the HVAC guys could take the old PTAC away and not have us left with a piece of plastic over the hole until the Champion people got there) was next to impossible.

So, I held my nose and had another PTAC (Amana, this time) installed in the existing wall sleeve for $2,495.00. It fit perfectly (and installed -professionally- QUICKLY) in the existing sleeve, and is quiet and seems to work very well. This was 2 months ago.

Both PTAC's are USA made by Goodman AC in Texas, which may be foreign owned.

I suppose I could have bought another Friedrich unit online (for $995 with free shipping) and installed it myself, but that's above my skill level.

http://https//www.amana-ptac.com/products/ptac/pth154g-heat-pump

launderess · Jul 19, 2018

Sadly like so much else Goodman is Asian owned now.

By a Japanese group, but never the less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodman_Global

tolivac · Jul 21, 2018

That HVAC unit shown in the picture is like what I have seen in Hotel rooms.When the hotel-motel gets abandoned-those units are the first things taken!

washman · Jul 21, 2018

And it's a good thing Daikin bought Goodman

They have constructed a brand new facility outside of Houston TX where all residential and commercial units will be made. That means US jobs rather than Carrier, Trane, Lennox, and Nortek scrambling to create jobs in Mexico.

And as opposed to the brown turds of yesteryear, quality has improved dramatically. Like any other unit, if properly sized and installed they carry the freight as well as the more expensive brands.

iowabear · Jul 21, 2018

The last couple of very small (5K to 6K BTU) ones I have bought have been LOUD when their compressors turn on. I mean window-rattling loud. We owned a few different window ACs growing up and I do not remember any of them being so loud, but admittedly it was a long time ago and maybe I just don't remember accurately.

It's great that they are light, energy efficient and cheap today but it would be nice to be able to get a quiet one. My next one may be vintage but I hate to lose the efficiency of the new ones.

thomasortega · Jul 21, 2018

So get a Kenmore Elite.

Mine is super quiet (12k btu)

askolover · Jul 23, 2018

Knock on wood my Goodman built Amana package unit (from Fayetteville, Tn) that is now 18 years old is still going strong.

foraloysius · Aug 2, 2018

Something you see here more often are sort of through the wall airconditioners but with only two small pipes. It's a monoblock unit, no outside condenser. You would expect them to be noisy, but they are rather quiet.

cuffs054 · Aug 2, 2018

Not sure I understand how it functions with "no condenser"

DADoES · Aug 2, 2018

It has a condenser, very slim and packaged inside the unit .... thus the need for what is essentially dual-hose ports in the wall for installation.

launderess · Aug 2, 2018

For those interested in vintage AC units

There are more than a few out there who are our counter parts. Where we go after vintage laundry equipment, they deal in air conditioners.

Air Conditioners

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