Air Conditioning..to have or not to have?

[oldhouseman]

Good advise

I appreciate all the great advise I have seen here. I was walking through my house last weekend checking windows and doors to see what needs attention and thinking about how to do what the house really needs to insulate and keep the period look and feel. Because I work for the State Archives as an Archivist and historian I also feel a sense of obligation to do what is right for future generations who may come after me. My training coupled with advise from people on this sight is what I was seeking. I know anybody interested in this sight would have good suggestions and advise. My home is furnished with items to the period of the house. I had the paint put to spectroscopic tests to determine the original colors and have restored them. I have inventories of the house (a side benefit of working at an archives) so I know what furnishings were there in various time periods plus I am in contact with family members who used to own the house.

I am looking to the coming year. We in America are living in as the Chinese say "in interesting times". I hope the new year brings us all a good year and happiness in our homes.

I am going to keep my house as close to 1797 as possible. All modern safety features considered.

If anybody is interested google "Enon Hall" and go to their website and you will get a bit of an idea of what I am talking about with a house restoration. I have kept mine very much more original than Enon Hall but you will get the picture.

I still have remnants of 1830 wallpaper in my library (that was hidden behind 1950's sheetrock). I found a penny in an attic recess minted in the 1850's. Who knows what will turn up when I employ a metal detector about the grounds.

 

[drmitch]

I know where ya comming from. It was a very hot summer here in Tn. too and Both our central units quit at the start of Aug. New units were not in our budget and we were lucky I had a friend who loaned us a window unit. You also might try Old House Web which has a lot of people with the same problems and intrests.

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/newBB/index.php

 

[partscounterman]

I have a love/hate relationship with A/C

I live very close to sea level in central Maui. Because the sun beats down on our place hard in the summer, we do need some air conditioning and I am grateful we have it, but I really prefer not to have it on all the time. By putting heavy curtains inside and some lattice work outside of our south facing bedroom window, we have cut our use of the air conditioner(s) in half. I'm sure this pleases our landlord, who is so kind as to include the electricity with the rent.

Air conditioning feels good for a while when you first turn it on, but I always get chilled and my noses runs if I'm in it for too long.

The only reason I can think of in favor of adding the A/C to oldhousemans place is to entice a new buyer.

 

[toggleswitch]

Humidity with heat makes me cranky, well ok crankier!

For me a must-have!

House stays quieter.
House stays cleaner.
House is more secure & burglar proof; no need to open and close windows upon entering/leaving.
No damage from mold/humidity.
No need for unsightly throws all over couches. Sorry, but accumulated body oils sucked into the couch from exposed sweating extremities is not my idea of fun.

77*F (25*C) A/C setting when occupied and all weekend.
85*F (29*C) A/C setting when unoccupied.

It's the humidity that I object to. Arizona was over 100*F (38*C) upon one of my visits, and it was perfectly comfortable
due to a low relative humidity.

 

[Maytagmom]

My vote

No, I would not install Central AC in the house.
Maybe all you need is a dehumidifier.

Got any ghosts?

MM/C~

 

[toggleswitch]

Ghosts no, skeletons in my closet may be another issue.

A whole-house dehumdifier is bascially an A/C that dumps the heat back into the house.

For a similar energy cost an A/C will dehumdify AND cool!!

Besides, with a dehumdifier the windows have to be closed as well!

 

[Maytagmom]

Arizona It's a dry heat & I don't even sweat

I'm talking about a stand alone (room) unit Mr. Togglefishy.

I considered buying one when the AC went out in the POS I rent. Bought just 1 window unit. And today....I have to run the AC. Sure does feel Christmassy with 80 degree weather, FEH!

Here in Texas during the summer, you would probably get a gallon of water out of household air every 8 hours.

One day....I won't have to worry about this Texas heat no more. God that day can't come soon enough for me.

 

[oldhouseman]

a few pictures

Here are some shots of the house. Built in 1797, two rooms were added to the front in 1848 along with the porch and the wooden trellis work. The kitchen was moved up and attached in 1910 and a porch enclosed on one side to add a bath. This shot is the kitchen garden this past summer when I started the layout. We are in severe drought so I am not planting anything until the drought has passed.

 

[oldhouseman]

front of the house

this shows the front of the house. It was "updated" in 1848 to replect the Italianate taste of the period. I'm glad they did not touch the inside. I have all the shutters in storage right now for repair.

 

[oldhouseman]

back of the house

Here is the back. You can see how the kitchen was moved up and attached. This shows the pure Federal style of the house as it built in 1797.

 

[lederstiefel1]

Hi Greg! and all of you

thanks for your reply - would be nice to meet you one day - nothing against that idea - we also love to make new friends, especially a s my mate has lived in the States (and other parts of the world) for a while!

I love to restore old houses and actually really need only a small quantity of "new" stuff arround me. OK - we are not living in Spain - which climatically very much the same as the region you live in. But lived for two years in Spain myself.

I know that really well built houses with thick walls and insulating windows, sun-protection (shatters, or so) would be all that we really need. But that is the reason why we have all the energy consumption and worldwide pollution today - we built more and more rubbish, needing more and more energy to substitute the negative aspects of that behaviour...

Old things are not always BETTER than new ones - of course! But seldomly they are worse than modern things - most times they are just DIFFERENT!
I found that it's more or less all a thing of habit. The moment you are used to do something so or diffrently - you try to stay with that and new things, wether old or really new, are something that makes circumstances...that's all!

Ralf

 

[oldhouseman]

continuing work

I still have a good bit of work to do inside. I am taking off for the holidays this friday and will not be back until Jan. 2nd. Unfortunately I do not have internet access in the house yet so I will miss seeing this website for 11 days. The good part is I am going applaiance hunting. There are several places in the area that sell older stuff and you never know what will turn up. I will take some interior shots and post them if anybody is interested, especially of the Carpenter Locks and kitchen, etc. Happy holidays to all and thanks for the great suggestions.

 

[oldhouseman]

Oh yea, the ghost question....

Sometimes you can hear footsteps upstairs and the sound of doors opening and closing. I had an eletrician quit because he said he could hear people in the house and he was the only person there. He claimed his tools kept getting moved. I know several people have died in the house, two children in the 1830 of typhoid fever and five died of old age. Two in my bedroom. Several confederate soldiers died that were being nursed for illness and wounds. I have not had any negative experiences myself. It is an old house and there are sounds and noises that go along with it. I have noticed items moved out of place from time to time. I won't declare it to have any ghosts but I will say it has character and charm. I have come to love the place and hope I enjoy many years there and hope my friends will come and visit often. If anybody in the area wishes to have a tour of the house I welcome them or should any of you guys be visiting Georgia for any reason and wish to visit just send me an email. I am happy to extend some southern hospitality.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Attic fan insulation

First: I did not put it in and do not use it.

When I had about 20 inches of insulation blown into the attic right after I moved in, we constructed a well with thick insulated sides around the attic fan and filled that with batts of Fiberglass insulation. To seal the louvers, I used one of those 3M window film kits which use double face tape and heat shrink plastic. I did that 15 years ago and it still looks and great plus there are no cold drafts in the winter and no layer of hot humid air at the top of the hallway from air leaks during the summer.

 

[toggleswitch]

It is said that insulating the roof rafters (without prover ventilation) is a no-no, in that trapped heat from the sun gathers under the unsulation and radiates back out harming the ashpalt shinlges. The is some sort of styrofoam-like spacer that one is supposed to use.........

There are so many opinions on this that I am thoroughly confused!

 

[toggleswitch]

Perhaps a compromise solution is to install these heat/cool units.

It's a heat-pump (reverse cycle A/C) that works up to 50% faster in winter to extract max. heat from outside, concentrating it and bringing it indoors.

Up to four indoor units can be connected to one outdoor unit.

I believe the size of the hole in the wall needed is only 3" for the connecting pipes and wires.

With this you get heating and cooling on a room-by-room basis rather than central HVAC which may overheating and overcool space you don't need climate-conditioned. ALso much less expensive to run than resistance-coil electric heating .

http://www.mrslim.com/

 

[runematic]

Here is a cooking stove that would be basically period to the house. This is a "ten plate stove" that was made about 1820 in Philadelphia. This type of stove is the 1st cooking range in America. This got the women away from the open fire style of cooking that was really popular in those days.

 

[oldhouseman]

insurance companiers

You guys would be really surprised what insurance companies have to say about fireplaces and woodstoves. Maybe not considering the knowledge base of this group.

I could not get homeowners insurance on the house simply because of the age of the house. I ended up going to Lloyds of London for home-owners insurance. Not one company in the states would give me insurance. The Chubb group would but they have a minimum of 3 million. At a cost of $5000,500.00 a year. Not in my budget. I am a historian and archivist at a state archives which means civil servant and not highly paid.

I opted out for keeping the fireplaces wood-burning because of the insurance. There have been wood burning fireplaces (seven in the house)since ....many years past. I put gas logs in the fireplaces. I know it is safer than wood burning units. However, it gives a gas burning odor.

I have furnished the house with period antiques so when you enter the house it really is like stepping back to 1797 to 1805. The Empire period rooms are furnished alike.

I wish I could install a stove like the one pictured. I have a perfect room for it.

Right now I am fighting the battle about what is and is not allowed by insurance companies in a house as old as mine. Any advise is welcome.

 

[toggleswitch]

Sounds like you may have had a past life in the period.
Perhaps a good and reputable hypnotist/regressionist is is in order.

It is said that those who "obsesses" over a time period lived it, and basically know what to pull in terms of information and research to get their memories of the time properly substantiated.

They are able to "connect the dots" the rest of us can't.

 

[petek]

My guess is that the only way a regular insurer will take you on is if you have a residential sprinkler system installed which sort of defeats the purpose of originality. That is if fire concerns are the only thing they are most concerned about.

 

[sudsmaster]

Ventilated vs. Sealed attics

Actually, there are two schools of thought on this.

The traditional approach is to insulate the floor of the attic, and provide ample insulation in the attic so that moisture from below (and the average human habitation puts out a lot of moisture) doesn't condense on the cold rafters and drip like rain, encouraging mold/mildew/dry rot etc.

The alternative approach, which I believe is really on suited for new construction, is to insulate directly under the roof deck, with a vapor seal, and seal the attic from all ventilation from outside.

Yes, the insulated roof deck will result in higher roofing temperatures, and shortened life of the roofing material. I believe I've seen a 10% shorter life for asphalt shingles bandied about. I would imagine that new more reflecting asphalt shingle materials might cope with the insulated deck construction better.

Another category is the finished attic and/or cathedral ceiling scenario. In both cases the attic might be treated as a sealed attic. However it's also possible to have a ventilated space between the roofing deck and the ceiling of the living area directly below, in which case I believe it would be called a false ceiling but logically is more like a false roofing deck.

The key in both cases is to avoid having human made humidity condensing on cold interior surfaces and causing problems. Personally I prefer the traditional approach but that's probably because a sealed attic done wrong could be a huge hidden disaster, whereas a ventilated attic would give a bit more warning if things aren't right.

 

[sudsmaster]

Homeowner's insurance issues

Last time I renewed my homeowner's insurance (which is 50% higher than it was 10 years ago) I asked about what makes my rates higher than average.

One thing was the wood roof. Not because it's a fire hazard, I was told, but because they cost more to replace than an asphalt roof.

This place has two fireplaces, one of which has been used a lot, the other one put in during the 60's and has never seen a fire. I've never lit a fire in either, largely because of concern about the wood roof even though I added chimney caps to prevent embers from escaping (and it keeps the rain and larger critters out too). But the insurance company didn't seem to care if there were one or two fireplaces, so I don't know if they affected the rates at all.

Seven fireplaces is a bit much, though, and I could see an insurer having some concerns about chimney fires, etc. Too bad they are not proactive enough to accept a chimney sweep's report as evidence that the chimneys are sound and not likely to start a fire.

I do know that when I shopped around for insurance a few years ago, some companies flatly refused to insure the home because of the wood roof. Their "policy". Understandable in light of the terrible Oakland Hills fire or 1991, but I'm not in the hills. Another insurer told me that the wood roof was raising my rates about $300/year (something I can't get my current insurer to divulge). Although I like the look of the wood roof, and it probably adds some insulating value against summer heat, I don't like its flammability and will probably replace it with asphalt when the time comes for a mandatory re-roofing. I figure that after 10 years that $300 will be about $3,000, still a lot less than what a new roof would cost...

 

[oldhouseman]

Comfort and price

I have spent the last 11 days in Sparta. I drove back to Atlanta tonight so I can be at the office bright and early tomorrow morning.

I had guests over almost every night the last ten days. The house stayed toasty warm with gas logs in the fireplaces. The upstairs stays especially warm. Some days I stayed upstairs and it was very warm with no heat on at all when it was in the low 40's outside.

I will enjoy living in this house for many years to come. I appreciate all the advise I have received here.

Thanks to all who contributed. I wish you all could have been guests in my home over the holidays.