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I agree completely. The same thing applies to the Oasis machines. Mine performs so much better when it's filled 3/4 of the way up to a full load to the top row of holes. The blooming rollover is much more fluid, and the water level is usually about halfway up the basket. I'm eager to see how these new machines will handle that kind of load.
 
I agree with both of you who posted above me the wash action is better than i expected ... im shocked it bloomed so well but i would like to see it with a full load as well. i wait till i have a really large load to do laundry so that is what i would like to see a huge load.

i still find that washplate design anemic at best seems like it hardly has fins on it ...

i also prefer the Maytag / Kenmore variant with the dial.
 
Just like the Oasis, and practically every HE top loader available, the biggest weakness in this machine seems to be movement when you have different fabric types and weights mixed together. 

 

There was a WP Rep at Lowe's the other day when I went to check out the other Bravos and compare it to the new Cabrios. I recognized her because she came in several times while I worked at HD, but when I got the chance to talk to her I quickly realized that her knowledge was based on scripts and product brochures, and she didn't actually know anything about how the machines worked.

 

When I got there she was showing one of the employees how she could stack cups on top, with a tennis ball balanced on the top cup, and put the machine into a spin and that there would be no vibration. While I was looking at the Cabrio Platinum (the Oasis version) she came over asking what draws me to that machine, so I explained what was going on with the Bravos and how I had the option of choosing a different washer. She proceeds to try and talk me into the new Cabrio 8500, and again starts a "spin" to show that there is no vibration. After about a minute of the tub turning at probably around 50 rpm, I look down and ask when it's actually going to spin, and she replies "but it's spinning now?" I wanted to walk away at that very moment. She then tries to argue with me that the new VMAX platform doesn't use a gearbox. *sigh* What amused me the most was how she told me that "it would have been doing me such a disservice if she had allowed me to purchase that older Cabrio".

 

Anyway, one of the things I asked her was if the new impeller design and agitation profiles were able to better handle mixed fabric weights than the Oasis platform, and she pointed smugly at the Mixed cycle. After seeing that video, it seems to have about the same movement that the Bravos does with mixed items.

 

To me, the new terminology for cycles and options translates to this: Mixed = Colors/Normal, Whites = Towels, and whites of course, Casuals = Perm. Press, and then Delicates and Bulky/Sheets as is, unless the new Bulky setting is designed for towels.

 

I love the look of these machines though. That capacitive touch panel is absolutely stunning. Not too crazy about the planetary gearbox or the new dispenser drawer though.
 
I really can't imagine buying a machine like this one. It might end up cleaning ok, but it tangles and wears out the clothes doing it. A front loader uses the same amount of water, or less and does a much better job without causing wear or linting on the clothes. I have ALWAYS had top load washers up till now. But the new ones are just not the same. A top load washer will not wash as well as a front load one using the same amount of water without undue wear on the clothes.
 
DeepWater wash

Now, whats really interesting to me is the design of the DeepWater option. He always talks about using the Oxi option to get more water, but as the DeepWater is an option to any Hows by now, my question is if it adapts the amount of water to the amount of clothing the way a washer with agitator would (so a half load only gets a half tub, a full load a full tub, just like with the Cabrios with agitator and Auto waterlevel), it adds just more water (like twice as much as the sensed size would give, no mater how big the load is) or if it just uses a full (or 3/4 full) tub by default with no adaptation. This of course may varry by cycle. It would be nice to know as well if the DeepWater adapts wash actions (longer or shorter arcs).
Maybe someone should point him towards this site ;)
 
"Whites = towels and whites." I am not sure what the options are in the whites cycle but if you have dark green towels like I do this would not be the cycle I could use.

For those of you that have these type of washers I am curious. Why did you choose this type over a front loader? Why would you choose this type of washer over the TL speed queen?
 
Building Limitations

There are some condominiums in South Florida that forbid front loaders as there is a perceived NOISE/VIBRATION factor during spinning. Utter nonsense unless you are in an older building that is more wood and concrete.

So, in that sense, a top loading HE machine is the only option, if you must have HE.

Malcolm
 
Our Samsungtag (even when it was brand new), a relatives 2009 LG and someone else's 2010 LG FL set I've used all shook the houses they were in on spin cycle.

Is that not a problem with front loaders anymore these days?
 
My only reservation with front-loading machines is that, from what I've seen in person and through several users' videos, it seems that larger loads of laundry seem to just roll in a ball back and forth. I've watched quite a few where the load was by no means oversized, but a few items just stayed in the middle of the "ball" the whole time. I'm also not crazy about how sealed the environment is. They have very high spin speeds, but usually the swirling vortex of air causes little pools of water to collect around the door seal and the window, and then at the very end when the machine tumbles and fluffs the load, that water just gets sponged back up by the clothes brushing against it. If I were to be given a nice FL or got an excellent deal on one, I would most certainly use and enjoy it, but I'd always have a TL as well. The FL would be excellent for comforters and items that just don't move around well in a TL machine.

 

I think the balling up of the load happens more in modern machines that only use enough water to get the load soggy but with not much water to slosh around. Sure, the intent behind these machines is not so much to cause the clothes to move around each other, but to allow the detergent to soak in, but I just prefer and feel more at ease seeing the clothes get agitated. With top-loading HE washers, as long as you follow the manufacturer's instructions and load the machine properly, there is usually no problem with rollover or "blooming" action. In addition to that the load's center of gravity stays close to the driveshaft, which keeps stress on the bearings to a minimum, in my opinion. There's also not really any place for the water to go but down, so any water "pooling" is mainly underneath the basket away from the clothes. In the end I think it all boils down to personal preference, and what pros and cons are more important to a person, because every machine ever made has had and will always have its strengths and its quirks.
 
White Only?

Thought Maytag was the FLAGSHIP for Whirlpool. No colors available on this new model though...

Malcolm
 
WP seems to take their time keeping the sites up to date. Literally yesterday it showed the MVWB880 in the place that this new model has taken. I doubt this is the top-end model, and because there are only three HE top-loaders showing on the whole site, I'm sure the others will soon appear. 

 

I think when they're populating the Features panel under the models that they just hit check boxes on what to display, because the last item is "Extra-Large Capacity -- These 4.3 cu. ft. capacity washers handle your largest loads" when the machine is actually 5.3.
 
I have washed loads so large that most here would probably have a heart attack... and items still moved all over during the wash. I did three loads today and paid extra attention to water pooling on the front gasket. After each cycle, there was a little less than a teaspoon of water on the gasket and even though I pulled towels right over it, none of the water was soaked up. Surprised myself.

As for the new top loaders, Whirlpool's internal product page shows three Maytag models that use the new design: 755, 835 and 855. All the old Bravos models without the dispenser drawer have gone, unfortunately. Also, only the TOL models seem to come in white or silver (and a red Whirlpool 8500).

This is Kenmore's impeller. It looks to be a third of the height of F&P's one.
 
I guess the impellers are that shallow to allow for ultra-low water washing. The F&P design uses the floating basket if I'm not mistaken, which means overall higher water levels. And as the HE F&P allow for traditional washing, the impeller has a kind of hybrid design.
What puzzels me is the Steam Option. Its selectable at any temperature, and I never saw steam in any of the videos. So I guess its more like a temp boost.
But so far, it seems to me they do a pretty decent job at everyday laundry. The maker of the videos uploaded a video of a comforter which did not turn over at all (but it floated on top, so there was no way). He used the DeepWater option which gave me the impression of a dynamic water level sensing, even with that option.
The wash cycle programming seems half backed to me. There are parts that I really like about it. It does a stepped fill throughout the wash to dillute detergent and dirt stp by step which combines concentrated washing and pretty decent blooming action and to keep the temperature constant, it turns the recirculation on after every fill to mix the fresh water with the water in the drum. Further it balances fairly well and rinsimg seems sufficent to.
On the other hand, some things are just dumb programming. It does short agitation faces after the inital fill with nearly no water at all. That seems pretty rough on clothes. The agitation is pretty one-pattern-ish as well: it always does a fill, fast agitation which gradually reduces over time until the next fill. Further, it uses a simmilar pattern on any cycle he showed so far. The Bulky cycle used pretty much the same cycleing as Normal and Casual. Water levels seemd pretty constant as well.
So, I guess its just a average remodel of what seemd to work for long enough. I'm not dissapointed by it, just not blown of my chairr as well.
 
Here are those comforter videos

Part One - Pre-Washing a king size comforter on Bulky/Sheets - Deep Water.



 

Part Two - Pre-Washing a king size comforter, continued.



 

Part Three - flipped the comforter over to wash the other side



 

Part Four - end of wash and rinse



 
Danke! :)

Just to lazy to link them myself, and I knew Alex would help ;)
3 Things:
1. At some point he calls him self laundry enthusiast (I think he used these words), but isn't on this side. Maybe I should change that...
2. He calls him self laundry enthusiast, but did not have the freaking idea to push that comforter down into the water. That annoyed me like hell while I watched that video.
3. He called him self laundry enthusiast, but throws clothes and other items in and covers the impeller. Thats HE TL 1-O-1: Do not cover the wash plate!
 
Funny...

I found a couple of the things in his videos get me to head scratching.

Why does he feel like he needs to do a manual prewash of clothes before starting the main cycle? I think he made mention of the machine needs to be 'tricked' once or twice. I suppose he thinks it isn't using enough water.

Why would you spend the money on a machine that requires so much user intervention?

Malcolm
 
Prewash

He mentioned watching a video of our very own Jamie, in which he explains that wetting clothes before the load sensing process can result in higher water levels during the wash. That's also why he adds the Oxi Dispense option to many cycles.

Henene - the steam option just turns the heater on to maintain and maybe boost the temp a little.
 
That machine is driving me insane! 20 minutes just to fill and "sense", seriously?? My SQ is already finishing the rinse cycle by then.

With the way that machine was "washing" that comforter, one may as well have filled the bathtub with water, dropped it in and stirred it around with a paddle. At least then there would be some agitation.

I would laugh if the bottom of that comforter came out shredded in the end.
 
Perhaps not a king size

But I have a full size comforter that looks much like the King Size in the guys video that I ran through the SQ last week and it handled it with ease, and no problem with turnover whatsoever.
 
That comforter probably wouldn't do so well in many front loaders either. But that's not the point, this machine technically can fit it but the results are (obviously) terrible. Seems like false advertisement to me, to market such a big tub only to find out you can't fill it all the way and can only put certain things in it. A TL agitator machine, or FL can at least be filled up and you will still see results.
 
While trying to watch the videos-machine is pretty lame-hardly any or no agitation at all--Just "Whir-Whirr"Fill,and so on-just a gentle rocking of the tub and no rollover whatsoever-You have to LIFT&TURN the Heavy,wet,comforter yourself to do the other side?--Might as well take the comforter to a laundry service and have them do it.Would be worth it.Won't be in the market for a Cabrio type machine.Just an agitator TL that fills with water and gets the job DONE-No manual "turning"!And yes,as another member pointed out-push the comforter into the water to squeeze out the air bubbles.But,again the machine should do that for you!!
 
Missing an opportunity?

Interesting thread - I own a Fisher & Paykel 8kg Aquasmart II and think it excellent. Normal washing works very well - the laundry turns over and cleans, and a full capacity loads produces great results. Bulky items require a full-tub of water, giving lie to the HE bit, but then again the non-test cycles on FL washer aren't necessarily high efficiency!

I love the styling of the Maytag Bravos XL, and (as a European obsession) the option for a heater. I can't help thinking that both F&P and Maytag-Whirlpool have missed a beat in their programming of these machines. Most have re-circulating pumps (at least the F&P machines do), yet these seem only to function for part of the wash cycle, if at all.

I would suggest a system where the laundry items are just saturated, and then have a period where the machine ramps up to spin, wringing the water through the clothes, and then showered over by the recirculation, and repeat. Add in a profiled temperature rise from the heater, and I would think this an effective first phase for a wash (UK FL fans will recognise this as similar to the Zanussi Jet-system action). Then follow the F&P pattern by topping up with cool water for an agitation phase, but keep the recirculation going throughout the wash action. Adding a lint filter to the latter would be good too.

I suspect that F&P's 'vortex' FL wash works on this basis - I wonder if there is a reason why they don't make more of the recirculation potential in the TL machines?
 
I wash King size comforters all the time in my Whirlpool Duet with no problems, have done them many times in the Maytag Neptune. I don't understand why gusherb makes that statement. I wash 2 king size pillows at a time in both machines, no problem either. As far as those videos, that convinced me not that I ever doubted that these washers are not for me. No thanks.

Jon
 

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