Altar Guild Meeting At My House

[passatdoc]

I linked to my parish below. It's the oldest church in all of Orange County, CA still operating on its original site. Technically the mission in San Juan Capistrano is older, but because the Mexican govt confiscated church property in the 1840s, it did not resume operation as a Catholic parish until the 1920s...LONG after our parish was up and running. Windows are Tiffany, building dates to 1889.

The original organ was by Skinner and was bellows-powered. In the 1940s, a downtown theater got rid of its organ and gave the pipes to the church, which then had the instrument rebuilt and it now has about 5000 pipes. The control console however is modern and up to date.

Here is the choir in all its glory. Pretty high powered, with section leaders who sing professionally and just about everyone else has a lot of experience. Not auditioned per se, but the repertoire is difficult enough that it scares away the less musically gifted.

Church of the Messiah, Santa Ana | Home

I Am New - Whoever You Are, Wherever You Might Find Yourself In The Journey Of Faith ... There Is A Place For You Here

www.messiah-santaana.org

 

[passatdoc]

ps

But I still never, EVER get into an argument with altar guild. It is a no win situation. They don't like change and they do like control!

We use real votive candles at two locations in the church. They are messy and kind of expensive. In addition, there have been issues with the heat from the votive glass causing discoloration on one of the stands holding the candles.

I made a gentle suggestion of how using tea lights from IKEA would save money (100 for $6) and how the aluminum base would protect against overheating and discoloration (invert an empty aluminum cup in the glass, place a second tea light right side up). The votive glasses are dark blue so the inverted cup "platform" would not even show. The only downside is that the candle would burn for only three hours instead of six. I even bought a starter bag of 100 tea lights to get them started.

Did they get used? NOPE!! Were they even tried just once? NOPE!!! Nothing's ever gonna change with that group. They are allergic to change. The rest of the parish is more open minded however.

 

[oldhouseman]

Why the power struggle?

I claim to be Anglican and attend Anglican services as my ancestors. I have some issues with the Church. Actually many of my family went to the Methodist Church briefly. Some to the Baptist. A definite divide there ..but..

Why the tension with the guild? I think I may ask a member of our guild to understand. We in the pews go to service and it is as it always has been in the past. Little details are never an issue.

 

[passatdoc]

Altar Guild can be, in some parishes, the power behind the throne. Even many rectors kowtow to them. I am very comfortable in the Episcopal Church and have very few issues with them. Occasionally too liberal for my taste, but no one tells me how to vote.

 

[toggleswitch]

I never realized how much politics was behind the scenes in a hosue of worship, 'till my father became church council president.

He caught the chuch accountant stealing money.

He had to convince the other members of the Board of Directors that the priests' jobs were not entirely about raising money.

He had to convice the other Board Members that the sermon-- at least-- in English won't necessarily kill 2000 years of tradition. And that the sermon should be aimed at translating into modern Greek and today's English the Bible and Epistle readings that are done in Biblical Greek.

BTW we don't do the fire and brimstone and "think like us or else yo' az iz gona burn in hell, boi". The sermons tend to be about love, forgivness, doing the right thing, treating others well yada yada yada.

Now here is an interesting tid-bit. My Italian-born Roman Catholic literature professor claims that Christianity is about a Jewish man who espoused classical Greek thought and philosophy as laid out by Plato and Aristotle etc. and preached it.

I was happy when dad got out of the politics and I was better able to enjoy services without the "baggage" and background "noise".

We did however have a seamstress that would make the priests' vestments. The joke was that every time she made the priest a "get-up" he'd leave the church to be reassigned. After a few times she decided to stop making them. *LOL*

Vestment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[passatdoc]

LOL!! In Orange County, CA, there are two Greek Orthodox churches. One, in Anaheim, does it all in Greek. The second one, in Irvine, offers English liturgy in recognition of the fact that no one below yah-yah age can speak Greek, and you will lose the young people if it's not in a language they can understand. In addition, they are at risk of losing members who marry "exenos" (non-Greeks) if they can't understand what the hell is going on. A Greek friend of mine has an exenos wife who has become a leader among the church women....because they attend the Irvine church which welcomes those who don't speak Greek.

In my town of San Juan Capistrano, there is now a pan-Orthodox parish (I think Syrian or something) that uses no Slavonic, just English, trying to attract anyone of Orthodox background regardless of national origin. Their argument is that the Orthodox are spread too thinly to be able to form parishes centered on national origin, and the beliefs are the same as long as everyone speaks the same language. With the rise in gas prices, they may have a point.

One time I was in a taxi from LaGuardia Airport to Manhattan, and the Greek taxi driver took me on a detour through Astoria (highway was shut down by an accident). I proudly told him about my friend who married a non-Greek but whose wife was a church leader and whose kids all attended church and religion classes...in English. His response: "but then it's not a Greek Orthodox church...:"

 

[toggleswitch]

LOL. Actually all of the Christian (Eastern) Orhodox churches are auto-cephalous (Literally meaing self-run or self-headed; Self-contained, self-sustaining and self-regulating)and otherwise exactly the same.

[Well the Russians' vesmments have that raise collar (as shown above) in the back are designed to shield them from drafts, but that is about it AFAIK. *LOL*]

So the 7 or 8 +/- Eastern Orthodox churches each send their leader to be a member of the joint "Board" and elect a leader amoung them. Being more Eastern, IMHO the mystery, mysticism, and "primitiveness" (i.e. lack of change) are part of the allure and charm.

One obvious difference between Roman Catholicism (which has declared itself "THE" chuch, BTW) and the E.O. Churches is the "filoque" which is ONE line in the creed that we all recite. i wont get into it here, but it makes for an interesting read.

The next obvious difference (to me anyway) is the Eastern aspect of "There is more than one road to your destination; Chose carefully." Rather than the more western thought of "Do it this way or burn, baby burn."

Listen, if I'm going to burn in hell, I want to take some fabulous swimwear with me and before that time retire in Florida, Texas or Arizona to get used to the intense heat.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Churches is the "filoque" which is ONE line in the creed that we all recite.

OOOPSIE

...which is the ONE line that DIFFERS in the creeds that we all (i.e. R.C. and E.O. recite).

 

[passatdoc]

Actually, Anglicans and some mainline Prostestant churches (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian) also recite the Nicene Creed.

Check out the Greek Orthodox mission in our town. No pretense of even TRYING to have divine liturgy in Greek. They do offer a Greek language school, so that the children can complain a la My Big Fat Greek Wedding. GOYA and AHEPA chapters, no doubt.

Many of the kids in the photo appear to have one exenos parent.

http://gomsoc.org/

 

[toggleswitch]

Actually Greek and Latin should probably be mandatory in that English is about 35+/- % Greek especially in the higher sciences and I'll bet a much-greater-than-that percentage of Latin.

 

[passatdoc]

All of the children being forced to wear those get-ups for Greek Independence Day are going to grow up and write sequels to "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". This is how Narda Vardalos got her start.

 

[passatdoc]

"Actually Greek and Latin should probably be mandatory in that English is about 35+/- % Greek especially in the higher sciences and I'll bet a much-greater-than-that percentage of Latin."

Remember the line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding?

"show my any English word, I will give you the Greek root."

"OK Mr Portakallas, how about kimono"

"Kimono is similar to Greek word kimon, which means winter, so there you have it, you wrap yourself in a kimono for winter."