AmericanStandard air chillers/heaters

[retro-man]

Just a note to say this morning it is cloudy and raining here. Very high humidity. A/C is set to 68 degrees. Humidity inside is 48 percent. This is without the dehumidifier running. So I guess even as the circulation water temps in the 50's the system still dehumidifies adequately. So I would gather to say that it might look like that the situation is air infiltration into your living space that is causing your high readings. I am on the north shore of Boston and right on the ocean. Doesn't get much more damp than this outside.
Jon

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Good points, all.

 

There is both heating AND cooling overcapacity, no doubt. I usually leave the living room unit running 24/7 and turn bedroom unit on only when needed. The only control I have is the fan switch. I've noticed no difference in temps (by feel) in the pipes regardless of whether the fan is on or off. This applies to both heat and a/c modes. Therefore I'm pretty confident the water circulates 24/7 regardless of whether I have the fan on or off. I.e. the fan switch isn't connected to a valve.

 

Yes, air infiltration is jaw dropping. I understand why the owner left them untouched given the units are clearly oversized in terms of heating. Building went up in mid 60's. Doors (balcony) and windows are new and appear weathertight themselves, it's just everything around them that leaks, especially around door frame.

 

I've taped the more major leaks and will check less obvious ones. i suspect that given the building's age, there's a limit to what can be done about air infiltration, but I don't think I've hit it yet.

 

I'm renting here so I can't do anything that'd be noticeable and permanent. I've been here just 6 months but have pretty much decided I want to buy here when my lease is up so I need to avoid any hint of being inquisitive/PITA. That said, I suspect perceived 'geekiness' would not be a problem once I've found the right people.

 

Kitchen and bath have old-fashioned vents that look like air returns. I'll take pics and post in a couple of days.

 

I KNOW I'm over-sensitive to humidity. That's why I'm kind of partial window units over central a/c. If the weather is low 80's but damp I close all the windows, and run the smallest unit 24/7. 

 

Weather has been steamy here in NYC for last several days. I was away for about 36 hours and left both units running on lowest fan speed. Dehumidifier was off. I came back to 68F and 56% humidity on gizmo and 65% on dehumidifier (10 min after I'd turned it on). I felt too cool and too clammy, lol.

 

I'll make some mods as suggested and get back to you in a couple of days.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

   

 

[gusherb]

So I'm staying at a hotel on the Riverwalk downtown in San Antonio, TX. It's 17 stories and they cool the guest rooms with a central chiller plant that I can see part of through some windows on the side of the building, and can see the cooling towers on the plants roof from our window, not to mention hear them...

What's funny is our top floor suite suffers from the same issue that has been discussed so much in this thread - too high of loop temperature. The in-wall fan/coil unit has to run continuously to maintain about 70-72 and never shuts off. The RH is on the high side, I'd say high 50s. The outlet air temp seems to be about 60 degrees. I'm guessing the water is in the low 50s.

The problem is, from what I can tell is not building management cheaping out on cooling but rather because we're on the top floor mixed with possibly poor engineering of the chilled water system. When I was on the third floor the air blowing out of the vents felt much cooler - to the point that condensate was dripping off the wall register.

 

[washer111]

@gusherb

We noticed the same thing at Kings Hotel in Perth.

On a *mild* evening, where the temperature was around 75º (Daytime was about 85ºC) our top-floor "Penthouse" (we were upgraded) struggled to get below 77º, even with the system on High Fan, and set at 65º.

Staying there again, myself, this past April, the daytimes were about 75º, and nighttime in the 60s. It managed a reasonably chilly temperature in there, so I suspected that the lobby air-conditioning loop reduced the capacity significantly, not to mention the building's existing heat load may have had an effect.

Funnily enough, a couple of the lower floors did share a large blower vent where the elevator was, but the higher floors did not. I saw into the cleaner's room where this duct runs, and it almost appeared as though the same vent serviced the bathrooms (as each one had a vent that seemed to do precisely nothing).

On the outside of the building, there was a large duct, with a big open blower unit, which I assumed would be responsible for running some of this ductwork...

Must say that older hotels are very interesting!.

Link is of photo of the type of room I personally stayed in!

http://www.kingshotel.com.au/data/deposit/galleryImage.25731.image/image.jpg

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Cool hotel room. I've always liked that kind of sleek style.

Sorry for being so uncommunicative, but the summer work schedule (just finished) plus the heat&humidity just wore me out. Sucks about the whole heart valve thing, but HOT DAMN it felt good to hear the doc tell me that all my heat-related 'issues' were NOT in my head ... as I'd been told by so many for so long.

Back to topic:

I've sealed up everything I can reach. I've bought a second dehumidifier, a 30-pint Danby Model DDR30B1GB. I got it off FleaPay brand new for $79.99. Believe it or not it's whisper quiet and fills its bucket as quickly as the roaring GE that cost me nearly double and had great reviews. Pics are attached. The GE is in the living room and the Danby in my bedroom. Both run 24/7 except when I'm out of the house longer than it takes for their buckets to fill. The chiller in the living room is always on and the bedroom unit probably 80% of the time.

I'm able to keep the temps around 70 and more importantly the humidity down to 50%. In a perfect world I'd like it a bit warmer and a bit dryer but I'm satisfied with this as my sinuses are no longer constantly swollen and I don't work up a sweat just walking around my apartment.

Air infiltration is still quite high. whenever I open the door there's a massive whoosh of air... half the time rushing in and half the time rushing out. There are 2 vents, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom (pics attached), that have no dampers on them. I'm not sure of their function and whenever I've put my hand to them I've felt no air flow at all. These seem to be unique to buildings put up in the mid-50's to late-60's.

Thanks all for the info and suggestions. As always, I've learned a lot

Jim

 

[twintubdexter]

it's smokin...

It was 117 yesterday, 118 predicted for this afternoon. I fear my American Standard air conditioners are going to explode. They're on the West side of the house, the hot side. I go out there every so often and ask them how they're doing. People talk to their plants so why not?

 

[gusherb]

Joe

They are workhorses and they love it.

My Trane units live under my bedroom window and when the temperature gets above 97 they actually start humming a happy tune to me. They don't like it when it gets into the 70s and below (and neither do I) and they start to sound a bit raspy.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I had a VW Rabbit that responded to weather like that. The higher the humidity was, the rougher and louder it ran. The less said about its reliability in the rain, the better.

OTOH, as soon as the temps dropped below freezing it ran smooth as silk and nearly silent. No matter how cold it was, no matter how long it had been sitting, it started with the first nudge from the alternator. It was a great winter car - freakishly unstoppable in the snow, pumped out heat faster than any other car I had, and threshold breaking was a no-brainer as the pedal gave perfect feedback.
------------

Not sure of today's high, but it was hot and humid enough my heat loving friend said it was too much. I was told that there was nobody at the pool. I went outside briefly at around 7pm and was glad I spent the day indoors.

My American Standard air chillers with my 2 dehumidifiers kept me cool and comfy

Jim

 

[washer111]

Cars Quiet in Below Freezing

I wonder whether the engine in that VW Rabbit of yours might've been quite harsh on the motor oil in the summer, and heated it beyond a "reasonable" motor oil temperature. Viscosity when hot is measured at 100ºC, so an oil that might be a 30 or 40 weight hot could well step down a grade. In the winter, the engine is nowhere as hot, and thus the oil remains the correct weight, thus shutting up the engine. 

 

Sounds like you have a working solution. Those air grills are probably passive ventilation slits. See if you can detect air movement with the door or window open... 

 

I noticed the same thing at the hotel; the vent in the bathroom seemed not to do anything, and actually had a louvre inside... I thought it couldn't POSSIBLY be a fresh air vent; as you wouldn't want unpleasant odors from the bathroom being blown in the room, but, being a 40 y/o building, ANYTHING is possible! 

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. I have a vague memory of using 20W-50 in the summer and 5W-20(30?) in the winter. This was back in the 80's, though, so I might be thinking of a different car with the oil types.

The next time a friend comes over I'll ask him to open and close the doors to see if I can air movement at the vents.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[retro-man]

Those vents in your pictures are the original ventilation systems for your building. There was a blower system attached to all the vents on the top of the building. These were all hooked together, usually in a row from top to bottom and sometimes connected to another row. Some blowers were on timers to run for a few hours in the morning and evening. Others were on all the time. This was before the time when most units now have individual exhaust fans. Some buildings still use this type of system for air removal and exchange. Others have taken these and added exhaust fans into the individual living spaces and vent the exhaust through them.

Jon

 

[cuffs054]

Warm, have you checked out the chiller and/or cooling tower? You might be able to get a tour.

 

[kimball455]

Chiller Plant

Here is a link showing a very large chiller plant in operation along with all of the associated equipment, pumps, etc. The apartment building would be quite similar but on a smaller scale.

Harry

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC1V3NiLnZ8

 

[tolivac]

The chiller-boiler room tour sort of like what was in a gov't building that I used to work in at Downtown Wash DC.A few times I had to start the Trane chiller system that cooled my area of the building I was in.I would go to unit#3-touch the enable button and several minutes later the shop was cooling down.It was amazing how fast the cooling would work!.The Trane chiller was 1200Ton capacity.don't know what other areas of the buiding it cooled.Sure that has been all changed now-the chiller area of that building would be automated and remote controlled.The building engineer at the time let me start the chiller.I also repaired an air compressor for him-was a quiet night in the studio maintenance shop-you wouldn't think air compressors would be under usual studio equipment.The engineer needed help in installing the intake air unloader valve relay.The compressor worked fine after the relay install.Before it wasn't unloading and tripping its breaker.We have a much smaller chiller/boiler room here at the transmitter plant-have to check it each night.two 150 tone carrier chillers and two Cleaver Brooks boilers-those only work in winter-and only when really needed.Transmitter heat helps.Sometimes have to reset the chillers if the control room temp climbs up when its really hot outside.