mickeyd
Well-known member
"the poor thing"
What a GREAT story. Perfect!
LIFT UP OUR HEARTS
Could you post the pic here?
What a GREAT story. Perfect!
LIFT UP OUR HEARTS
Could you post the pic here?
An Important Announcement from Endora
- Thread starter Unimatic1140
- Start date
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~sudsshane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
Robert~
"It was the tone of the email that really annoyed me, not necessarily the contents of the email"...
So I was right Robert?..I love being right, just ask the hubby..lol! =) I too am sorry to see Washertalk go since he was a long standing member, but I try to put myself in Robert's very busy shoes.
If I were the webmaster, I would be hurt and annoyed by the tone of Washertalk's email also. It almost seems to suggest that Robert's way of doing things is wrong and his is right.
"It was the tone of the email that really annoyed me, not necessarily the contents of the email"...
So I was right Robert?..I love being right, just ask the hubby..lol! =) I too am sorry to see Washertalk go since he was a long standing member, but I try to put myself in Robert's very busy shoes.
If I were the webmaster, I would be hurt and annoyed by the tone of Washertalk's email also. It almost seems to suggest that Robert's way of doing things is wrong and his is right.
maggie~hamilton
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2006
- Messages
- 711
In every group, there are always those who can't play nicely, and when they don't get their way they take their dollies and stomp away.
I don't know the party involved, but have to say that the fact that he quit the group after dropping this s#!t-bomb on Robert and not being willing to take some criticism about him says a lot about him. Especially since, as Robert pointed out, he was anonymous until he himself broke his anonymity. Strange.
I don't know the party involved, but have to say that the fact that he quit the group after dropping this s#!t-bomb on Robert and not being willing to take some criticism about him says a lot about him. Especially since, as Robert pointed out, he was anonymous until he himself broke his anonymity. Strange.
whirlcool
Well-known member
As a webmaster for another website, I can vouch for the fact that there are some pretty strange people out there. And half of them live on the Internet!
Examples:
One guy wrote me (around 2000) that President Clinton was assisting the gays in taking over the world. All music released in the U.S. has "gay" subliminal messages in it. If you listen to music long enough you'll turn gay too!
How the hell do you answer that one???? After about a month, this guy went away after telling me that he fell off his motorcycle and broke his neck and his skull and he can't use the internet anymore. Hmmmmmmm....
On occasion I get e-mails from people who state that they don't have a life, they live totally in cyber space. Sad, but true. Cases of Internet addiction.
People who write and tell me that the information on my website is incorrect. I always send them a scan of where I got the information from and tell them that they can contact the mfg and argue with them!
See what I mean? It's endless.
OTOH, there are plenty of nice people who you end up becoming friends with. There are a few that I chat with now and then for over 10 years now! Just as there are nut cases out there, there are also plenty of interesting people too.
Examples:
One guy wrote me (around 2000) that President Clinton was assisting the gays in taking over the world. All music released in the U.S. has "gay" subliminal messages in it. If you listen to music long enough you'll turn gay too!
How the hell do you answer that one???? After about a month, this guy went away after telling me that he fell off his motorcycle and broke his neck and his skull and he can't use the internet anymore. Hmmmmmmm....
On occasion I get e-mails from people who state that they don't have a life, they live totally in cyber space. Sad, but true. Cases of Internet addiction.
People who write and tell me that the information on my website is incorrect. I always send them a scan of where I got the information from and tell them that they can contact the mfg and argue with them!
See what I mean? It's endless.
OTOH, there are plenty of nice people who you end up becoming friends with. There are a few that I chat with now and then for over 10 years now! Just as there are nut cases out there, there are also plenty of interesting people too.
crevicetool
Well-known member
I was the one pulling Roberts Leg.......
I felt so bad after his response to the thread, and that he had taken me seriously, I e-mailed him and later had a phone conversation with him. I explained my rotten sense of humor, and how I had nearly died when I thought I had hurt him...I have the utmost respect and admiration for you Robert...Thanks again for all you do. Rick...
I felt so bad after his response to the thread, and that he had taken me seriously, I e-mailed him and later had a phone conversation with him. I explained my rotten sense of humor, and how I had nearly died when I thought I had hurt him...I have the utmost respect and admiration for you Robert...Thanks again for all you do. Rick...
crevicetool
Well-known member
Huh?
Robert has arms?
Robert has arms?
and are said to be quite muscular too.
Yes, and they embrace everyone.
Yes, and they embrace everyone.
rinso
Well-known member
Artichoke! And don't forget the clarified butter.
beware of cobwebs
thank you!
thank you!
I have been gone on a trip to England and back now. I am sure no one missed me ;however, I vote for D also. The car that the witches arrived in was a Bakers Electric. If an issue of age is of concern, I am 58 and if that's too old to be here, then I am gone. Just my 2 cents worth.
This is a great site and I would hate to see it disappear with a twitch of a nose. Gary
This is a great site and I would hate to see it disappear with a twitch of a nose. Gary
oxydolfan1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,764
"...and if you go back and re-read my post you will see that I did not reveal who sent the email, only the email text itself was posted..."
Indeed, this is true.
"It was the tone of the email that really annoyed me, not necessarily the contents of the email."
Yep, I can certainly understand that you would be.
"While I am truly sorry that Washertalk deleted his profile, that was not my intention...."
I absolutely believe you on this. I really believe you were upset, and needed to vent.
"I will say there would have been a very simple way to rectify this whole situation everything would have been fine."
And, in a more just, compassionate world, this would be true.
But sincere apologies are not always acknowledged and accepted for what they are, they rarely convince the recipient that the original antagonist sees anything differently than they did before they offered it up, and the apologies themselves are not always sincere, so what is really accomplished in the final analysis?
I'm definitely not trying to stir up discord here. Washertalk comes on like gangbusters, but I'd just like to point out that our communities would not even be here to speak if it weren't for the gadflies and the squeaky wheels, and I guess the point of my original post was to take up for the underdog.
After I saw almost unanimous "artichoking" in the responses that followed, I just felt led to point out that not everyone blends into the herd easily, it takes tremendous courage to question any sort of authority, and even poorly worded critiques are worthy of some respect, even if the points made don't seem to make a lot of sense.
Robert, I really hope you weren't upset by my remarks. I do think your efforts are well appreciated here!
Have a great weekend, all.
Indeed, this is true.
"It was the tone of the email that really annoyed me, not necessarily the contents of the email."
Yep, I can certainly understand that you would be.
"While I am truly sorry that Washertalk deleted his profile, that was not my intention...."
I absolutely believe you on this. I really believe you were upset, and needed to vent.
"I will say there would have been a very simple way to rectify this whole situation everything would have been fine."
And, in a more just, compassionate world, this would be true.
But sincere apologies are not always acknowledged and accepted for what they are, they rarely convince the recipient that the original antagonist sees anything differently than they did before they offered it up, and the apologies themselves are not always sincere, so what is really accomplished in the final analysis?
I'm definitely not trying to stir up discord here. Washertalk comes on like gangbusters, but I'd just like to point out that our communities would not even be here to speak if it weren't for the gadflies and the squeaky wheels, and I guess the point of my original post was to take up for the underdog.
After I saw almost unanimous "artichoking" in the responses that followed, I just felt led to point out that not everyone blends into the herd easily, it takes tremendous courage to question any sort of authority, and even poorly worded critiques are worthy of some respect, even if the points made don't seem to make a lot of sense.
Robert, I really hope you weren't upset by my remarks. I do think your efforts are well appreciated here!
Have a great weekend, all.
only 58?
What? Who let the kid in? Mister, under 60 ain't no place for you here...
))
Glad you're back.
You know, ageism is one of the biggest problems in the gay community. There's a great series of cartoons which ran in a German weekly a few years back. In the first set, parent's have just found out their20 something son is guy.
In the second set, they discover all they "need" to know about being gay on day time TV.
In the third set, they meet with him, tell him it is fine that he is gay, except his dad say...but I thought you had to be, er, um, well - better endowed than, er, um - you are - to be gay.
And his mom says...well, just remember, you can only be gay until you're grey. After that...well, (turns to husband) "is there" an after that for gays?
If you are lucky enough to survive, someday you, too, will be old, older, the oldest in the group. I think it was the comments on age from washertalk more than anything else which upset me. I don't know whether is was audacity or desperation, but they were needy, very needy.
We, as gay men, are going to have to define a role in society for ourselves which goes beyond the tired stereotype of the one-night fling, two-month true-love and social life as a bar fly.
We need more groups like this, not fewer.
Oh, and just in case you happen to be straight - (or an inveterately politically correct homosexual of the female persuasion) - no offense was intended. Just thought I'd use the inclusive we for a change...
What? Who let the kid in? Mister, under 60 ain't no place for you here...
))Glad you're back.
You know, ageism is one of the biggest problems in the gay community. There's a great series of cartoons which ran in a German weekly a few years back. In the first set, parent's have just found out their20 something son is guy.
In the second set, they discover all they "need" to know about being gay on day time TV.
In the third set, they meet with him, tell him it is fine that he is gay, except his dad say...but I thought you had to be, er, um, well - better endowed than, er, um - you are - to be gay.
And his mom says...well, just remember, you can only be gay until you're grey. After that...well, (turns to husband) "is there" an after that for gays?
If you are lucky enough to survive, someday you, too, will be old, older, the oldest in the group. I think it was the comments on age from washertalk more than anything else which upset me. I don't know whether is was audacity or desperation, but they were needy, very needy.
We, as gay men, are going to have to define a role in society for ourselves which goes beyond the tired stereotype of the one-night fling, two-month true-love and social life as a bar fly.
We need more groups like this, not fewer.
Oh, and just in case you happen to be straight - (or an inveterately politically correct homosexual of the female persuasion) - no offense was intended. Just thought I'd use the inclusive we for a change...
oxydolfan1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,764
"I don't know whether is was audacity or desperation, but they were needy, very needy."
I'm around washertalk's age and I can tell you that, at least here in New York, aging is a VERY twitchy subject.
I'm not talking about socially...we have restaurants, bars, nightspots, etc. that target and attract specific age groups, and folks tend to want to hang out with others they can relate to.
I have a lot of friends who've had serious health challenges, been booted out of their families, etc. and they are worried about their "golden years". An acquaintance that comes off to the world as the most confident, self-assured gay man on the planet recently mused, "If it's this hard for (insert euphemism for older straight people) now, whaddya think it's gonna be like for you and me THEN?"
Now I don't go along with his rationale, because it supposes that we're all a bunch of simpering little victims who don't have a clue, but I bring it up to illustrate that a lot of these fears about the future are deeply rooted.
All you can do is save your money, keep as positive of a mental attitude, and try to stay as vital and healthy as possible.
But this is how concerns about the future permeate the here in now.
I'm around washertalk's age and I can tell you that, at least here in New York, aging is a VERY twitchy subject.
I'm not talking about socially...we have restaurants, bars, nightspots, etc. that target and attract specific age groups, and folks tend to want to hang out with others they can relate to.
I have a lot of friends who've had serious health challenges, been booted out of their families, etc. and they are worried about their "golden years". An acquaintance that comes off to the world as the most confident, self-assured gay man on the planet recently mused, "If it's this hard for (insert euphemism for older straight people) now, whaddya think it's gonna be like for you and me THEN?"
Now I don't go along with his rationale, because it supposes that we're all a bunch of simpering little victims who don't have a clue, but I bring it up to illustrate that a lot of these fears about the future are deeply rooted.
All you can do is save your money, keep as positive of a mental attitude, and try to stay as vital and healthy as possible.
But this is how concerns about the future permeate the here in now.
Some vca bystander 'moppet' 's point of view and
Oxydolfan/Scott, I pretty much agree with 100% of what you said here. I've also been seeing the Endora personality crop up a lot lately, more often than it did in years past when AW.org was just AW.org by itself and not connected to anything, hmmmm. Makes me wonder. Regardless, even though he already left, I would also like to come to Erik's defense here because it sounds like something that I would have asked. As to the 'humanity' of the forum, I don't think archiving or not archiving the posts would have any bearing on that. There have been a few times (such as this), both present and past, where I don't think 'humanity' is even existent here, but I'll just leave that where it is and bring it up where it is important later in my post.
Back to my first message. Ironically enough, the question about archiving/not archiving the Super forum was something that, pre-exile, *I* asked about last Spring when this began! And to add an even further twist to it, I believe Erik/Washertalk left the forum for reasons unrelated shortly before this took place and most likely did not see the post in question. I can fully understand why he would ask something like that (as I did), but I will say that knowing why the Super forum posts are no longer archived and robots.txt incorporated into the source to prevent search engines, archival bot crawlers, etc. from going here, that I also understand why it needed to be done in the first place. Particularly because of the mostly non-appliance-related discussion that takes place here. Also, as evidenced by this latest thread, the drama. If I had a site with an active forum and found a lot of "dramatastic" threads (flame wars, morality debate stuff, etc.) popping up in site-specific Google searches, I would not find it detrimental to the 'long-term health' of the site either. That's really not something that needs to be aired in public when people are trying to discover their appliance obsession. So in a sense, not having Google's bots scouring the Super forum is a blessing, since you can *theoretically* say what you want. Well, not exactly say what you want, but you know where I'm coming from
From my point of view, it was only a matter of time. First, the pictures in Super posts were eliminated after entering the archives, followed shortly after by the removal of wallpapers from active Super forum threads. However, I am going to say that by eliminating the Super forum archives, there were a LOT of informative threads killed off along with the rest. Threads that, had I known what was going to happen to them, I would have saved to my hard drive. Oh well, live and learn. Enough rambling, now onto what I came here to say.
One of the points you made in this post that I would really like to talk about, however, is the "defending the underdog" idea, especially having been in this position. I think had Erik known that he was going to have his "private email" publicly displayed, and be publicly lambasted for said email, I don't think he would have said anything in the first place. Yes, there were some parts of the email that I did NOT agree with and came across as snippy, but such is life. I feel that this situation could have been handled better by the recipient of this email. There's a fine line between private and public. When people write a private email, they are confident that the recipient is going to keep it private! I can also understand that people would disagree with some of the things said here, as I did, and with the tone I also fully understand a need to 'vent' where necessary. But that's not the problem here. The problem is that I'm seeing right through the unanimous 'vote', if you can even call it that. What I see is blinded loyalty and utter disregard for the facts. What I see is presentation of ONE side only. When this happens, the real problems begin. I would have left too if I were him, hell, I DID leave (even though I was not the one who removed my profile...). There was (and is) NO excuse for a public lynching, for lack of a better word because that's EXACTLY what it is/was. That's what it was with Chad Miller most recently. That's what it was with ME. Although the last two occasions were far worse than this one here. Was Chad Miller perfect and did he make innocent honest posts on here? Of course not. I'm not saying I've been innocent either in the past year as far as the in-fighting within the 'clubs' go, far from it. I've been involved in a lot. What I AM saying, though, is what happened to just quietly removing someone and letting them fade away? That doesn't take place anymore. Now it is attempted to turn the entire membership against them, so they go down and leave in their own guilt, shame, and embarrassment. In my situation as the "underdog", very few individuals posted in my defense. The majority of the membership (and I'll acknowledge, understandably so) was dead-set against me the entire time. Everyone was taking their turn for a swing at the proverbial piñata. No one thought to stop and look, perhaps take the time to find out that there are two sides to every story, and that there was undoubtedly another side to this one that they did not know about...perhaps the 'problems' weren't as 'great' as they were portrayed to be? Nope. Didn't happen. Double standard rearing its ugly head once again. Thankfully, though, over the passing time (combined with having been active in the club for a, well, *reasonable* period of time), a few fellow members have become privy to this 'other side' and took the bullshit with a grain of salt as it should have been. I've come to realize who my true friends (who I remain in frequent contact with) are through that. Hopefully this will remain the same with Erik. He has always been rather interesting to read, and rest assured MY opinion of him has not changed.
Regardless, a public exile of a dissenter is NOT how it should be, and I'm not saying that from having been the underdog either. But I guess some just feed off drama and/or a potentially "dramatic" personality. Why wasn't Rob Gwisdala brought to light in front of the entire membership last year when he attempted to come back on? Well, because there was nothing dramatic about his terse, annoying posts. Just black & white. If it were brought to attention on a thread, no one would take even the slightest interest in it. There lies the 'problem' so to speak. If it ain't dramatic, it ain't worth bringing to everyone's attention. What's even more ironic, and disheartening, is that threads like THESE generate more attention and responses than a LEGITIMATE post about appliances. Didn't we all come here to either learn, 'drop knowledge' where necessary, or both? What happened?
That brings me to my final point...that's typical Internet behavior for you. Isn't the Internet wonderful? Unfortunately the darker side of the Internet, the perceived anonymity and lack of personal face-to-face communication (with email, and forums being the primary method) rears its ugly head time and time again, bringing out the worst in people, myself included. Those are the disadvantages of a Cyberspace community. I am 100% positive that if this were more of a close-knit 'skin-and-bones' group (as one of the vacuum groups I'm in where we speak to each other frequently on the phone, sometimes daily), none of this would be happening in the first place. It would stop right at the source. Also something to think about: the 'analog' (if you will) gatherings, at least the ones I've been to including this most recent one in St. Louis, have been 100% drama-free. Granted, with a large group such as this, with some being more serious participants than others, close communication is not possible for everyone, but it's still food for thought.
Apologies for the rambling rant, but here is the point I am trying to make (this post took me 2 hours to think about...it can't all be blather, can it? ;-)) for those of you about Erik's situation. There are two sides to every story. Before judging, I invite you all to look at the bigger picture and read between the lines. You might see something.
Oxydolfan/Scott, I pretty much agree with 100% of what you said here. I've also been seeing the Endora personality crop up a lot lately, more often than it did in years past when AW.org was just AW.org by itself and not connected to anything, hmmmm. Makes me wonder. Regardless, even though he already left, I would also like to come to Erik's defense here because it sounds like something that I would have asked. As to the 'humanity' of the forum, I don't think archiving or not archiving the posts would have any bearing on that. There have been a few times (such as this), both present and past, where I don't think 'humanity' is even existent here, but I'll just leave that where it is and bring it up where it is important later in my post.
Back to my first message. Ironically enough, the question about archiving/not archiving the Super forum was something that, pre-exile, *I* asked about last Spring when this began! And to add an even further twist to it, I believe Erik/Washertalk left the forum for reasons unrelated shortly before this took place and most likely did not see the post in question. I can fully understand why he would ask something like that (as I did), but I will say that knowing why the Super forum posts are no longer archived and robots.txt incorporated into the source to prevent search engines, archival bot crawlers, etc. from going here, that I also understand why it needed to be done in the first place. Particularly because of the mostly non-appliance-related discussion that takes place here. Also, as evidenced by this latest thread, the drama. If I had a site with an active forum and found a lot of "dramatastic" threads (flame wars, morality debate stuff, etc.) popping up in site-specific Google searches, I would not find it detrimental to the 'long-term health' of the site either. That's really not something that needs to be aired in public when people are trying to discover their appliance obsession. So in a sense, not having Google's bots scouring the Super forum is a blessing, since you can *theoretically* say what you want. Well, not exactly say what you want, but you know where I'm coming from
From my point of view, it was only a matter of time. First, the pictures in Super posts were eliminated after entering the archives, followed shortly after by the removal of wallpapers from active Super forum threads. However, I am going to say that by eliminating the Super forum archives, there were a LOT of informative threads killed off along with the rest. Threads that, had I known what was going to happen to them, I would have saved to my hard drive. Oh well, live and learn. Enough rambling, now onto what I came here to say. One of the points you made in this post that I would really like to talk about, however, is the "defending the underdog" idea, especially having been in this position. I think had Erik known that he was going to have his "private email" publicly displayed, and be publicly lambasted for said email, I don't think he would have said anything in the first place. Yes, there were some parts of the email that I did NOT agree with and came across as snippy, but such is life. I feel that this situation could have been handled better by the recipient of this email. There's a fine line between private and public. When people write a private email, they are confident that the recipient is going to keep it private! I can also understand that people would disagree with some of the things said here, as I did, and with the tone I also fully understand a need to 'vent' where necessary. But that's not the problem here. The problem is that I'm seeing right through the unanimous 'vote', if you can even call it that. What I see is blinded loyalty and utter disregard for the facts. What I see is presentation of ONE side only. When this happens, the real problems begin. I would have left too if I were him, hell, I DID leave (even though I was not the one who removed my profile...). There was (and is) NO excuse for a public lynching, for lack of a better word because that's EXACTLY what it is/was. That's what it was with Chad Miller most recently. That's what it was with ME. Although the last two occasions were far worse than this one here. Was Chad Miller perfect and did he make innocent honest posts on here? Of course not. I'm not saying I've been innocent either in the past year as far as the in-fighting within the 'clubs' go, far from it. I've been involved in a lot. What I AM saying, though, is what happened to just quietly removing someone and letting them fade away? That doesn't take place anymore. Now it is attempted to turn the entire membership against them, so they go down and leave in their own guilt, shame, and embarrassment. In my situation as the "underdog", very few individuals posted in my defense. The majority of the membership (and I'll acknowledge, understandably so) was dead-set against me the entire time. Everyone was taking their turn for a swing at the proverbial piñata. No one thought to stop and look, perhaps take the time to find out that there are two sides to every story, and that there was undoubtedly another side to this one that they did not know about...perhaps the 'problems' weren't as 'great' as they were portrayed to be? Nope. Didn't happen. Double standard rearing its ugly head once again. Thankfully, though, over the passing time (combined with having been active in the club for a, well, *reasonable* period of time), a few fellow members have become privy to this 'other side' and took the bullshit with a grain of salt as it should have been. I've come to realize who my true friends (who I remain in frequent contact with) are through that. Hopefully this will remain the same with Erik. He has always been rather interesting to read, and rest assured MY opinion of him has not changed.
Regardless, a public exile of a dissenter is NOT how it should be, and I'm not saying that from having been the underdog either. But I guess some just feed off drama and/or a potentially "dramatic" personality. Why wasn't Rob Gwisdala brought to light in front of the entire membership last year when he attempted to come back on? Well, because there was nothing dramatic about his terse, annoying posts. Just black & white. If it were brought to attention on a thread, no one would take even the slightest interest in it. There lies the 'problem' so to speak. If it ain't dramatic, it ain't worth bringing to everyone's attention. What's even more ironic, and disheartening, is that threads like THESE generate more attention and responses than a LEGITIMATE post about appliances. Didn't we all come here to either learn, 'drop knowledge' where necessary, or both? What happened?
That brings me to my final point...that's typical Internet behavior for you. Isn't the Internet wonderful? Unfortunately the darker side of the Internet, the perceived anonymity and lack of personal face-to-face communication (with email, and forums being the primary method) rears its ugly head time and time again, bringing out the worst in people, myself included. Those are the disadvantages of a Cyberspace community. I am 100% positive that if this were more of a close-knit 'skin-and-bones' group (as one of the vacuum groups I'm in where we speak to each other frequently on the phone, sometimes daily), none of this would be happening in the first place. It would stop right at the source. Also something to think about: the 'analog' (if you will) gatherings, at least the ones I've been to including this most recent one in St. Louis, have been 100% drama-free. Granted, with a large group such as this, with some being more serious participants than others, close communication is not possible for everyone, but it's still food for thought.
Apologies for the rambling rant, but here is the point I am trying to make (this post took me 2 hours to think about...it can't all be blather, can it? ;-)) for those of you about Erik's situation. There are two sides to every story. Before judging, I invite you all to look at the bigger picture and read between the lines. You might see something.
Public Flogging?
I truly do not have that impression.
Certainly, I have written many things over the years for which I had to apologize - both in public and private. Unfortunately, I probably shall have to do so again at some point - my best efforts are frequently just not good enough.
That said, I am of the firm conviction that one should never say or write anything to anyone which one is not willing to see published. That is called being honest (and circumspect).
Robert is not the washer club - that is all of us. But this site is, in a very real very direct sense Robert's. I don't have a problem with that.
We are here at his pleasure. Whether we are here for his pleasure is a question I am not going to ask.
Archiving or not archiving was never a problem which crossed my mind. Maybe it's the age thing; my generation grew up with computers which were cranky, prone to BSOD, unreliable and generally less certain of reality than an Alzheimer's patient in advanced condition...and with even less reliable short-term memory. Not like today's systems.
From the beginning, if I found something to be of value, I archived it. (Paranoid disclosure: In more than one place...)
Sure, there are lots of things which I would love to see.
I think a library of user manuals from the 1930's to mid' 80's would be groovy.
I think a listing of every repair tip, cross-indexed to each machine for which is it relevant...and annotated, up-dated AND illustrated with 3-D, THx video would be cool, too.
And while we are at it...
But I take what is on offer. If ever called up to volunteer, I will gladly do so. Otherwise, I just enjoy the neat stuff folks bring here to show and share...and occasionally, I get into an intelligent discussion. Usually, I can bring it to its knees in one posting, reduce it to absurdity in two...
I am sure there are two sides to every discussion (or three or four...whatever) but, gosh...there is only one side here which matters, and that is Robert's view.
I fought a major inner battle as to whether to acknowledge your comments or not - my late husband was black and we enountered more prejudice - even in San Francisco - for that than we ever did for being gay. Racism rattles my cage big time. But heck, you're trying (both senses of the word) so I guess I can be trying, two (pun intended).
I truly do not have that impression.
Certainly, I have written many things over the years for which I had to apologize - both in public and private. Unfortunately, I probably shall have to do so again at some point - my best efforts are frequently just not good enough.
That said, I am of the firm conviction that one should never say or write anything to anyone which one is not willing to see published. That is called being honest (and circumspect).
Robert is not the washer club - that is all of us. But this site is, in a very real very direct sense Robert's. I don't have a problem with that.
We are here at his pleasure. Whether we are here for his pleasure is a question I am not going to ask.
Archiving or not archiving was never a problem which crossed my mind. Maybe it's the age thing; my generation grew up with computers which were cranky, prone to BSOD, unreliable and generally less certain of reality than an Alzheimer's patient in advanced condition...and with even less reliable short-term memory. Not like today's systems.
From the beginning, if I found something to be of value, I archived it. (Paranoid disclosure: In more than one place...)
Sure, there are lots of things which I would love to see.
I think a library of user manuals from the 1930's to mid' 80's would be groovy.
I think a listing of every repair tip, cross-indexed to each machine for which is it relevant...and annotated, up-dated AND illustrated with 3-D, THx video would be cool, too.
And while we are at it...
But I take what is on offer. If ever called up to volunteer, I will gladly do so. Otherwise, I just enjoy the neat stuff folks bring here to show and share...and occasionally, I get into an intelligent discussion. Usually, I can bring it to its knees in one posting, reduce it to absurdity in two...
I am sure there are two sides to every discussion (or three or four...whatever) but, gosh...there is only one side here which matters, and that is Robert's view.
I fought a major inner battle as to whether to acknowledge your comments or not - my late husband was black and we enountered more prejudice - even in San Francisco - for that than we ever did for being gay. Racism rattles my cage big time. But heck, you're trying (both senses of the word) so I guess I can be trying, two (pun intended).
andrewinorlando
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,392
Gee, I thought Robert handled this in quite a humourous way, and I think people are making way too much out of it. I never got the impression he meant to embarrass or ridicule anyone. Just not that kind of person. Personally, I thought it was funny, especially the reference to Bewitched (does it get any better than that??) If Erik got offended or embarrassed and left, that's his own doing, and kind of chicken shit to me. No matter what, you can't please everyone all the time, and speaking personally, I stopped trying a long time ago. Live and let live, and get over it. Maybe if Erik had been mature enough to phrase his requests differently, then this wouldn't have happened. I think if I had received that message myself, I may have reacted negatively also.
To Austin (vacdust)
Austin,
I'll be straight forward with you. Your message in this thread disgusts me. I have followed your ways but never really responded to it, but this message is just too much for me. Stop playing innocent. You aren't!
You are not the underdog here. You were just plain racist and evil! And above that, you hurt Robert like nobody else did on this site. Robert had high hopes for you and gave you a lot. For a while I was thinking he saw in you the next webmaster of this site. Things turned out so differently and it is only and solely your fault!
You only apologize for for the rambling rant, while there is so much else to apologize for. And not for the form and paint a total different picture somewhere else. That's typical internet behaviour too.
Perhaps me posting this is because your started about Rob Gwisdala. Stop dragging him into discussions, there is no comparison between you and him. IIRC Rob has autism and sometimes has problems to express himself. That is something totally different than the evil things you did.
I am glad that you know who your friends are. I think it would be nice if you would stick with them instead of appearing on this site now and then. By this kind of messages you remove all doubt so to speak.
Don't let the door hit you where...
Goodbye,
Louis
Austin,
I'll be straight forward with you. Your message in this thread disgusts me. I have followed your ways but never really responded to it, but this message is just too much for me. Stop playing innocent. You aren't!
You are not the underdog here. You were just plain racist and evil! And above that, you hurt Robert like nobody else did on this site. Robert had high hopes for you and gave you a lot. For a while I was thinking he saw in you the next webmaster of this site. Things turned out so differently and it is only and solely your fault!
You only apologize for for the rambling rant, while there is so much else to apologize for. And not for the form and paint a total different picture somewhere else. That's typical internet behaviour too.
Perhaps me posting this is because your started about Rob Gwisdala. Stop dragging him into discussions, there is no comparison between you and him. IIRC Rob has autism and sometimes has problems to express himself. That is something totally different than the evil things you did.
I am glad that you know who your friends are. I think it would be nice if you would stick with them instead of appearing on this site now and then. By this kind of messages you remove all doubt so to speak.
Don't let the door hit you where...
Goodbye,
Louis
rexaircollector
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2006
- Messages
- 79
Austin
Your quote: "What I AM saying, though, is what happened to just quietly removing someone and letting them fade away?"
You have been removed, several times. Why is it that you have not faded away? You spend valuable time trying to weasel your way back into a forum where you and your opinions are unwanted. Save my own diatribe, I completely agree with Louis' posting. Very well said Louis...Bravo!!
Robb Castaldo
Your quote: "What I AM saying, though, is what happened to just quietly removing someone and letting them fade away?"
You have been removed, several times. Why is it that you have not faded away? You spend valuable time trying to weasel your way back into a forum where you and your opinions are unwanted. Save my own diatribe, I completely agree with Louis' posting. Very well said Louis...Bravo!!
Robb Castaldo
Umm Robert...
It's gonna get ugly in here again...
It's gonna get ugly in here again...
